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06-10-2009 1 LAS CRUCES METROPOLITAN PLANNING ORGANIZATION 2 POLICY COMMITTEE (PC) MEETING 3 4 Following are the minutes from the MPO Policy Committee (PC) meeting held on Wednesday, 5 June 10, 2009 at 5 00 p m at City Hall Council Chambers, 200 N Church St., Las Cruces, 6 New Mexico 7 8 MEMBERS PRESENT Mayor Michael Cadena (Town of Mesilla) 9 Councillor Dolores Archuleta (CLC) 10 Councilor Gil Jones (CLC) 11 Commissioner Karen Perez (DAC) 12 Councillor Sharon Thomas (CLC) 13 Commissioner Leticia Duarte-Benavidez (DAC) 14 Commissioner Scott Krahling (DAC) 15 16 MEMBERS ABSENT Trustee Sam Bernal (Town of Mesilla) 17 Trustee Carlos Arzabal (Town of Mesilla) 18 19 STAFF PRESENT Tom Murphy (MPO Officer) 20 Andy Hume (Associate Planner) 21 Caerllion Thomas (Associate Planner) 22 Andrew Wray (Planning Technician) 23 Vincent Banegas (Planning & MPO Administrator) 24 Becky Eich, Recording Secretary 25 26 OTHERS PRESENT Joseph De La Rosa (NMDOT) 27 Frank Guzman (NMDOT) 28 Jeff Steinborn (State Representative) 29 Councillor Nathan Small (CLC) 30 Xochitl Torres (Office of Senator Tom Udall) 31 Cathy Mathews (League of Women Voters) 32 George Pearson 33 34 1 CALL TO ORDER — (5 05 p m ) 35 36 Cadena Alright, it is 5 00, so welcome to the June 10th meeting of the MPO and Tom if 37 you'll have a roll call for us Go ahead and call this meeting to order, but let's 38 have a roll call 39 40 Murphy- Commissioner Krahling 41 42 Krahling Present. 43 44 Murphy- Commissioner Benavidez. 45 46 Benavidez. Present. 1 1 2 Murphy- Commissioner Perez 3 4 Perez Present. 5 6 Murphy- Councilor Thomas 7 8 S Thomas Here 9 10 Murphy- Mayor Pro-Tem Archuleta 11 12 Archuleta Here 13 14 Murphy- Mayor Cadena 15 16 Cadena Here 17 18 2. CONFLICT OF INTEREST INQUIRY 19 20 Cadena Conflict of interest inquiry Is there anyone on the Committee that wishes to state 21 a conflict of interest if you haven't done so already, seeing none? 22 23 3 PUBLIC COMMENT 24 25 Cadena We'll go to public comment on anything that's not on the agenda, anybody in the 26 public? 27 28 4 CONSENT AGENDA Those items on the consent agenda and those indicated by an 29 asterisk (*) will be voted on by one motion with the acceptance of the agenda Any 30 Policy Committee member may remove an item from the consent agenda for 31 discussion by the Committee 32 33 Cadena Consent agenda 34 35 Murphy- Thank you Mr Chairman, we've had a request to amend the agenda and to 36 swap discussion item 7 2 with discussion item 7 1 37 38 Cadena Can we approve the agenda and the consent with the modification, anyone? 39 40 Archuleta I so move 41 42 S Thomas Second 43 44 Cadena Any discussion? All in favor? 45 46 ALL COMMITTEE MEMBERS - AYE 2 1 2 Cadena Motion passes 3 4 5 * APPROVAL OF MINUTES - May 13, 2009 —Approved under Consent Agenda 5 6 6 * ACTION ITEMS 7 8 6 1 * Resolution 09-10 A Resolution Adopting a Boundary Adjustment Between 9 the Las Cruces MPO and the EI Paso MPO —Approved under Consent Agenda 10 11 62 * Resolution 09-11 A Resolution Adopting the Functional Reclassification of 12 Berino Road —Approved under Consent Agenda 13 14 7 DISCUSSION ITEMS 15 16 7 2 Commuter Rail Feasibility 17 18 Cadena Which brings us to the commuter rail feasibility study 19 20 Murphy- This was put on the agenda at the request of Councilor Thomas Just to give a 21 little bit of background, there has been a lot of interest in either extending the Rail 22 Runner down to the southern part of the state and/or begin a commuter rail 23 service from Las Cruces to EI Paso The South Central Regional Transit District 24 is in the midst of their service plan As part of that service plan they've 25 conducted an initial rail feasibility study which the MPO can make available 26 copies of that for anyone interested So there's been a lot of work on that and 1 27 think we have Representative Jeff Steinborn who wishes to address the 28 Committee I'll turn it over to Councilor Thomas if there are any more comments 29 30 Cadena Councilor 31 32 S Thomas Thank you Well we held a joint Las Cruces City Council and EI Paso City 33 Council meeting When was that? A couple of months ago, right? And 34 Representative Steinborn, Jeff Steinborn presented his memorial that he had 35 presented at our State Legislature earlier this year and I thought it was a very 36 powerful piece so I know that those of us from the City have already heard this 37 but I asked Representative Steinborn if he'd come and share it with the rest of 38 you Since then, Congressman Teague has announced that he's put in in 39 working with Congressman Reyes, right, from EI Paso, have jointly put in some 40 legislation in congress and I've recently received Teague's list of reauthorization 41 requests and he put it on that list as well So we have quite a bit of momentum 42 And I'll turn it over to Representative Steinborn 43 44 Cadena Representative, if you'll step to the mike there please Welcome 45 3 I Steinborn Congressional testimony the way you said that Mayor MPO Councilors, 2 Commissioners, Mayor, it's great to be with you, and staff It's an exciting project 3 for our region You know my interest in it started with the rail days when they 4 brought the train down here two or three years ago and like a lot of Las Crucians, 5 you know had that light bulb go off and everyone said well why not us, maybe 6 us We have rail coming all the way down here Well then this serious recession 7 hit and in my thinking because this train currently is exclusively subsidized by the 8 State of New Mexico and we have to have a balanced budget, that clearly there 9 was going to be no talk of expansion of this rail service Well, in my first day or 10 two of the session there was serious talk of bringing the train to Taos And I read 11 an article on-line one of my first nights in Santa Fe where officials from the Rail 12 Runner were in Taos saying, now's the time to bring it to Taos, oh by the way we 13 have to build a bridge over the Rio Grande But it still makes sense, Espanola 14 and Taos And I realized we have to act and we have to act fast to put our foot in 15 the door and get in the conversation 16 So, I had a memorial draft that was similar to the one that had been 17 dropped for Taos, and it started off studying asking for a study between Belen, 18 the southernmost point of the Rail Runner now, coming all the way to Las 19 Cruces Well, when I did that and the publicity came out, it became kind of clear 20 to me that there was a lot of consensus and maybe even a more urgent need, 21 and maybe more fiscally sound starting point of going between Las Cruces and 22 EI Paso, as a potential starting point for this rail as opposed to Belen to Las 23 Cruces And I did not want to waste and extra or an extra (Inaudible) of energy 24 pushing an idea that I thought wasn't as good as maybe this other idea, so I did a 25 substitute And I substituted out that initial bill, before the first committee with this 26 memorial that you have in front of you that lays out the case for Las Cruces to EI 27 Paso And what I will say is that in talking to people at the state level I remember 28 asking one of them, well do you think as far as the eyes of the state go that we 29 are positioned on parody with Taos because I didn't like kind of the insight 30 nature There are a lot of powerful committee chairs who are up north, it would 31 go through all of their districts on the way up to Taos The Taos representative is 32 now the chair of the house transportation committee and the New Mexico 33 Legislature, and he goes, better than being on particularly you're ahead of the 34 game And I think with what we've already done in Las Cruces, we are very well 35 positioned, but to be clear, if we want it we're going to have to really reach out for 36 it on all levels, because it's going to be expensive and we're lucky that our 37 congressman is now going for it. And I know that you're looking at all kinds of 38 transportation options, but to the extent that is one that you want to pursue, it's 39 something we're really going to have to go for and we're in the middle of a 40 gubernatorial election, we're going to have to get those folks excited and on 41 board and committing to Dona Ana County and this is going to be a big deal So 42 with that 43 44 Archuleta Excuse me Mr Chairman We cleared it, if you remember what Councilor Jones 45 is asking if we have a quorum if he comes in, and we don't. It's already been 4 I cleared with our legal department and Councilor Nathan Small can stay Thank 2 you 4 Cadena Thank you for that clarification Let the record show that Councilor Jones from 5 the City of Las Cruces arrived as well 6 7 Steinborn So with that, I won't take any more of your time I dust will read to you the 8 memorial, and if you have any questions you know about the state role or my 9 observations, by all means So this House joint memorial 26 It's a joint 10 memorial requesting the department of transportation to study the feasibility of 11 developing a commuter rail service between Las Cruces and El Paso, Texas 12 Whereas, the "Rail Runner Express" is a commuter rail service that runs 13 between Belen and Santa Fe carrying people to work, stores, entertainment, and 14 tourist attractions, and 15 Whereas, to date, two phases of the Rail Runner Express have been 16 completed, and the availability of this commuter option has reduced the burden 17 on commuters of skyrocketing gasoline prices, and 18 Whereas, phase one extended commuter rail service from Belen to the 19 town of Bernalillo in July 2006, and 20 Whereas, phase two extended commuter rail service from Bernalillo to 21 Santa FE, completing the entire route from Belen to Santa Fe in December 2008, 22 and 23 Whereas, the residents of Las Cruces and Dona Ana County would like to 24 see rail service provided for commuters between Las Cruces and El Paso , 25 Texas, and 26 Whereas, Las Cruces has been ranked as one of the fastest-growing 27 communities in the United States for the last decade and is now the second- 28 largest City in New Mexico, and Dona Ana County is the second-largest County 29 in New Mexico, and 30 Whereas, the combined population of Dona Ana County, El Paso County, 31 and the Juarez area is expected to surpass three million five hundred thousand 32 by 2010, and 33 Whereas, work commuting data indicates there are well over twenty 34 thousand commuters that travel between Dona Ana County, El Paso County, and 35 the Juarez area, and 36 Whereas, Dona Ana County does not have large passenger air travel 37 available, making it necessary for residents of that county to travel to the EI Paso 38 international airport, which serves well over three million passengers per year; 39 and 40 Whereas, reciprocal in-state tuition programs are in place at New Mexico 41 State University and the University of Texas at EI Paso and EI Paso Community 42 College, which would provide additional incentives and opportunities for students 43 on both sides of the state line, and 44 Whereas, many people have a need to travel regularly between Las 45 Cruces and EI Paso for meetings and to conduct business, and 5 I Whereas, the combined factors of a strong business community, the 2 proximity of Las Cruces to EI Paso and Juarez and the current and projected 3 population growth suggest that potentially great value could be realized by 4 connecting these vital communities, 5 Now, therefore, be it resolved by the legislature of the State of New 6 Mexico that the department of transportation be requested to complete a 7 feasibility study to determine possible routes, optimum frequency of trips and 8 potential costs of developing a commuter rail service from Las Cruces to El Paso, 9 including coordination on the study with the Texas department of transportation, 10 and 11 Be it further resolved that the study should create plans that can be set 12 into action to maximize the use of possible funds that New Mexico, Texas and 13 the federal government may make available in the future for public transit 14 systems, and 15 Be it further resolved that those plans should also consider the need to 16 ease the congestion on interstate highways running between Las Cruces and El 17 Paso to reduce the need for expansion of highways and the costs of maintaining 18 those highways, and 19 Be it further resolved that the feasibility study, to the extend study 20 resources are available, consider the expansion of the commuter rail system 21 north of Las Cruces to the New Mexico spaceport and other New Mexico areas 22 of interest, including eventual connection with the Rail Runner Express, and 23 Be it further resolved that the feasibility study, when complete, be 24 presented to appropriate legislative interim committees by November 2010 and 25 that a copy be submitted to the library of the legislative Council service, and 26 Be it further resolved that copies of this memorial be transmitted to the 27 secretary-designate of the transportation and the governor 28 29 Cadena Comments, questions for Representative Steinborn? 30 31 Perez. I have one 32 33 Cadena Yes, Commissioner Perez. 34 35 Perez: Can I ask you a dumb-dumb railroad question? 36 37 Steinborn Yeah 38 39 Perez. Where we have I know for the spaceport in particular we already have a 40 railroad spur that kind of goes out in that area Obviously we have them, railroad 41 spurs all over our area and the multimodal facility coming in, in Santa Teresa 42 Does the Rail Runner system can we work deals with BNSF to fill in gaps 43 while it's being developed or are they not the same animal? You know BNSF 44 type railroad as opposed to a Rail Runner I know the track on the one in Santa 45 Fe is really, really small 46 6 I Steinborn The short answer is, and maybe he would be able to answer it. My answer is, 1 2 don't know Tom 3 4 Murphy- Mr Chairman, Commissioner Perez, the Rail Runner up north is actually running 5 on old BNSF line, the northern section The DOT purchased it from BNSF 1 6 would say probably about five, six years ago and they just didn't purchase the 7 section that goes from Belen south to EI Paso, but it was part of the same line, so 8 it's essentially compatible with that. There would need to be signaling upgrades 9 in the corridor to allow passenger trains to run at a higher speed I think there 10 are some instances where there are 45 mile an hour speed limits on it because 11 it's called what the railroad industry refers to as a blind corridor They have to 12 wait for dispatcher to give them a clear to go on each segment of track, but that's 13 something that it can be fixed with money through signalization of the track, 14 but the track itself is the same 15 16 Perez- So when we talk about implementing this, we're not talking about running 17 physical I picture the old west with the guys on the mule carts and you know 18 rail We're not looking necessarily at running new rail the whole length of the 19 project, just upgrading We're looking at signalization and we're looking at the 20 purchase of the train cars, I don't know what you would call them but the 21 passenger type 22 23 Murphy- Locomotive and cars 24 25 Perez. That's cool stuff 26 27 Murphy- And plus there would have to be a construction of maintenance and storage yard 28 too, similar in the region as well and those capital those types of capital 29 requests or reports are broken down within the feasibility study that I can make 30 available to all of you 31 32 Perez I'd like to see that, and I'm assuming that the maintenance and storage yard and 33 things again goes back to the multimodal facility in Santa Teresa is going to be 34 enormous 35 36 Murphy That may be an opportunity, but certainly not been decided 37 38 Perez. Thank you 39 40 Cadena Thank you 41 42 Steinborn BNSF at that meeting between the City and the County also touched on this, 43 talking about depending upon the speed you want and other variables I mean 1 44 think looking at the track will be an issue to see if it's all appropriate as is or if 45 some of the track needs to be upgraded 46 7 I Perez But we could do kind 2 3 Steinborn We have existing track 4 5 Perez Kind of a phased approach where we might be using operating at lower 6 speeds or using sections of the track and as we work our way into improvements 7 we could get this up and operating in a reasonable I mean this 8 9 Steinborn Absolutely 10 11 Perez Isn't a pie in the sky idea This is something that could be happening 12 13 Steinborn Absolutely As a matter of fact and there were some wild numbers thrown out 14 about the range, but I think the top end of that range was thrown out if you had to 15 purchase everything right and it was kind of and hopefully we would be 16 potentially at the lower end of it. I think the big issue is going to be leasing those 17 tracks from BNSF, it's going to be the right-of-way acquisition 18 19 Cadena Councilor Jones 20 21 Jones Thank you Mr Chairman And lust to dovetail on that a little bit because 1 22 remember the conversation well in EI Paso during our point meeting with the EI 23 Paso City Council, the BNSF, Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad, our record 24 keeper probably wanted to know that. Anyways, they did lay out a whole lot of 25 impediments and challenges, but the fact is it's an expensive project and there 26 are going to be costs regardless of what we do But there are issues about, and 27 I'm not an expert in rail, but signalization, the type of track, what weight steel and 28 all of that, and the freight systems they run, run at a certain speed, but commuter 29 rail runs at a different speed A lot of challenges like that. But it's a big number 30 1 mean you could lay out all those challenges and who knows, it may still be by 31 far and away the most cost effective solution, and I don't know We just don't 32 know So, if one faces up to the fact that yes it's going to take a good deal of 33 capital That indeed it may be that the cheaper solution, the BNSF has a 34 commuter rail specialist and I'll try and remember his card and I'll give it to you 35 because they're fun to talk to, those guys some times, especially if you're an 36 engineer But it's a whole discipline and I think there is tremendous opportunity if 37 there is a budget. And what was the budget Tom, somewhere between $185 38 million and $780 million, was that sort of the range? Yeah and so if you're willing 39 to spend $180 million at the low end, well you can overcome a lot of 40 impediments So I think there is some opportunity Thanks 41 42 Cadena Alright, anyone else on the Committee? Yes 43 44 S Thomas Thank Mayor Cadena Well I mean we're talking about a long range plan here 45 but it might be quite some time, in the meantime Councilor Jones didn't mention 46 that you know that we are we have a bus system that he's been working on 8 I that's going to start in September So, and that's how it started between 2 Albuquerque and Santa Fe too So, but the important thing is that you know 3 stimulus money started coming around, we didn't have plans in place and so it's 4 important to get a corridor study done and get some plans in place so that if the 5 opportunity comes along we're ready 6 7 Steinborn If I could lust close by saying this You mentioned that Silvester Reyes, the 8 congressman from EI Paso is now chair of the House Transportation Committee 9 has co-sponsored this bill, I think they're going to try to as you point out 10 Councilor, try to get the funds for this study later this year There's no reason 11 that a year from now we couldn't not only know the result of that, but possibly be 12 talking about next steps And when you look at how fast they moved up north, 1 13 think Commissioner Perez said it right, you know there's nothing written in that 14 says if this is a good project, if it's economically feasible, that we cannot have it 15 for five to ten years It's long range, but at the same time we've got a lot of the 16 infrastructure in place The federal government is printing up money like no 17 body's business, and may be an opportunity for us to move quicker than one 18 could kind of rationally contemplate with the speed government normally works 19 So I just put that out there 20 21 Cadena Thank you Representative for being here We are the Transportation Committee, 22 so I'm glad that Councilor Thomas made arrangements for you to be here 23 24 Steinborn Thank you Thanks for the invitation and thanks for moving it up on the agenda 25 1 appreciate that. 26 27 Cadena Anybody out there anybody in the public or staff want to come up and talk 28 about this? Councilor, come on up 29 30 Small Thank you Mr Mayor, Councilors, Commissioners I appreciate you guys taking 31 the time today It was talked about I think it was a very good discussion that's 32 taken place already on this Kind of special importance and I recall that 33 Councilor Miguel Silva brought this up in the meeting with EI Paso, was the fact 34 that a lot of the smaller communities as we go south throughout Dona Ana 35 County, there could be some very neat benefits with really connecting these 36 communities to you know what always sticks with me but you have greater 37 commuting between EI Paso and Las Cruces than you do between Albuquerque 38 and Santa Fe And so I think that's tremendous benefits I know others have 39 talked about within the City and certainly within parts of the County the fact that 40 the economic development that can spring up where you do have stops 41 obviously is the ease for folks to travel between the two areas And in this region 42 increases then I think economic opportunity and economic development follows 43 and is part of that. So, it can be a very important thing for this region and 44 appreciate you all's consideration on it. 45 9 I Cadena Thank you Councilor Small and you're always welcome at this meeting any time 2 you want to 3 4 Archuleta Mr Chairman 5 6 Cadena Councilor Archuleta 7 8 Archuleta My comment and my contribution to this is that we really need to thank our 9 railroad people here, because it was two years ago that we borrowed the Rail 10 Runner from the governor and he let us borrow it and it wasn't until then that the 1 l community, the southern part of the community actually saw the Rail Runner and 12 thought, well my gosh why can't we have that because it is beautiful If you have 13 not seen it, it is really, really nice So we thank them for that and I think we 14 can't stop there Every time we have railroad days we still need to bring it down 15 and create more interest for those who don't or have not seen it. Once they see 16 it then we've got to have it. 17 18 Cadena Good point Councilor 19 20 Archuleta And thank you Jeff for bringing this memorial, very much Thank you 21 22 Cadena Alright, anyone else on this particular topic? Commissioner Benavidez. 23 24 Benavidez Yes, on the thirteenth when I was trying to hold on the governor when I missed 25 that meeting The governor asked the audience if for a vote from the 26 audience regarding the railway between EI Paso and Las Cruces He asked how 27 many of you would like to have the railway between Las Cruces and 28 Albuquerque and about a fourth of the audience raised their hand And then he 29 said okay, how many of you would prefer from EI Paso to Las Cruces and over 30 three thirds raised their hand and he was well I don't think he was surprised, 31 he was surprised at the votes, so you know people are interested because 1 32 mean Las Cruces and El Paso we do so many business and traveling and stuff 33 So he got a good sense of what people want. That's all I wanted to say 34 35Cadena Thanks for that input and thanks for holding down the fort that day at the County 36 37 Benavidez I tried Thank you 38 39 7 1 Location Study Implementation 40 41 Tom Murphy gave a brief presentation 42 43 Cadena Thank you Tom Comments, questions? Councilor Thomas 44 45 S Thomas Thank Mayor Are we going to do you want us to start with action one and 46 work our way through or? 10 1 2 Murphy- If you had something to say on action one, certainly I wanted to kind of hit these 3 one by one and get feedback This isn't a long PowerPoint; it's really more of a 4 list 5 6 S Thomas Well there was some discussion about action one in the past. Especially 1 7 mean it seemed to me that action one is the one that has the most difficulty 8 probably at this point, that because it has to do with whether the NMDOT and 9 MPO are going to have the very same ranking processes and whether or not that 10 needs to be set out in the JPA. So I think from my reading I think that's what we 11 need to discuss, whether or not that's the appropriate way to go about that. 12 13 Cadena Anyone else? Staff do you have a comment on that? 14 15 Murphy- I think that's something that staff can bring to the table when the JPA is 16 negotiated That this is something that needs to be a 17 18 Cadena So Councilor Thomas is correct, if we're going to address it, this is the place to 19 do it. 20 21 Murphy- Yes 22 23 Cadena Okay 24 25 S Thomas So I guess then I know that there was some concern that putting the ranking 26 process in the JPA would make it too inflexible That it would be if we needed 27 to change the ranking process or work with it, because of changing needs, it 28 would be hard to go about doing that. So I guess I'd like to hear from staff what 29 that concern was 30 31 Murphy The concern was exactly that, that the JPA is really kind of the is a very 32 inflexible document as far as changing it. The only bodies that can change that 33 are the, you know, the consensus action of the Town of Mesilla, Dona Ana 34 County, and the City of Las Cruces, and Department of Transportation, so all four 35 parties have to be agreeable to any kind of change into the JPA. Our current 36 JPA that this MPO exists under was adopted in 1989 and you know there's been 37 no change to it since, so we have you know a 20-year-old document that's not 38 been changed And to expect to be able to change a future one would probably 39 be short sighted on us I think there are things that we can do to include in that 40 JPA like where you know to designate to the Policy board the power to adopt by 41 resolution rankings in conjunction with the DOT, things of that nature But 42 change in the JPA itself would be very difficult. 43 44 S Thomas I see So the JPA would include language that said that we the Policy board 45 and the Department of Transportation are going to work together to make our 46 rankings more integrated in the future, but just don't put it in the JPA because 11 I that would be too hard to change since it doesn't seem to get changed for 20 2 years 4 Cadena Isn't that what action 18 is? 5 6 Murphy- Yes, that is action 18 7 8 Cadena Okay 9 10 Murphy But they're kind of 11 12 Cadena So that would put in the 13 14 S Thomas It's tied to one as well, right? 15 16 Cadena Right. But that would put it in the hands of this Committee, as far as the scoring 17 system, as far as adopting a scoring system 18 19 Murphy- If it was in the JPA, yes it would put it into your hands and not really give you the 20 power to adjust it. But if we put it in the if the JPA gives this Committee 21 authority to adopt and modify that would give you the power for change 22 23 Cadena Yeah, I think that's what we're looking at, anyone else on that particular item? 24 Okay, what was your next did you have another thing? 25 26 Murphy- Anything on item five? 27 28 S Thomas I didn't see the oh, I'm sorry Is it alright if I go ahead? I didn't see in the stuff 29 1 read the things about an executive committee, but that is in there? 30 31 Murphy- No, the executive committee is just kind of some staff discussions that have 32 come up as part of some of the recent quick actions we've had to take and 33 thoughts of how we would better respond to it. So that's kind of a new idea that 34 we're presenting at this point. What we would like to do is in a subsequent 35 meeting is to bring forward some suggested bylaw changes to allow them for 36 you to consider and then give direction to us on At this point I'm really asking do 37 you want us to do that work to draft some bylaw changes to bring forward 38 39 Cadena I would say yes What does the Committee think? 40 41 Jones Mr Chairman Yes, I think if staff has some recommendations it's always nice to 42 have something to start with So if you don't mind that would be great. 43 Regarding you mentioned number five, I don't have the language in front of me, 44 but I think what we're talking about is basically, no specifying specific ad-hoc 45 committees, but just empowering create some authority to establish those 46 committees from time to time is a need and I think that's great. I think a lot of 12 I flexibility might be good so we don't open up some other thing in the future that 2 we didn't think about. 4 Cadena Good point. Thank you And I think the issue of an executive committee's an 5 important especially if we're going to be meeting with the EI Paso MPO and all 6 these other things that this whole study brought about So I think that's important 7 to bring back 8 9 Archuleta Mr Chairman 10 11 Cadena Yes 12 13 Archuleta Thank you Mr Chairman, I have a question Who would be appointing the ad- 14 hoc committees? Would it be this board or the mayor with consensus from the 15 board? 16 17 Murphy- Mayor Pro-Tem, Mr Chair, that would be something that we would iron out in the 18 bylaws The way I would have it envisioned in my mind at this point would be an 19 ad-hoc committee would be presented to the entire Policy Committee for your 20 approval on the Committee, not only the members of the Committee, but their 21 scope of their work, what they're assigned to do 22 23 Archuleta Thank you 24 25 Cadena Makes sense, anyone else? How about action seven? 26 27 Murphy- Action seven was for the MPO and the NMDOT to extend a joint invitation to the 28 FHWA to make an annual address The consultant did caution us that FHWA 29 travel budgets would possibly preclude them from making a trip down here to see 30 us, however, it was felt that an invitation should be extended And I guess what 31 staff needs at this point is, is that something we still want to see is to have a 32 representative from that agency come address this Committee, and do you want 33 staff to work with NMDOT staff to extend the invitation? 34 35 Cadena As Chair I would say yes, that was discussed also at length during that training 36 37 Jones Mr Chairman I'm sorry, go ahead Thank you I think there's no harm in 38 extending an invitation as long as we recognize that it may not be honored or we 39 may be unable to see that fulfilled And I don't think we're committing to a budget 40 to pay for travel or anything, but simply extending an invitation and I think that's a 41 good thing 42 43 Cadena Alright, anyone else? Action eight. 44 45 Murphy- Action eight and this was broken up into A and B and a lot of the matrixes, but at 46 this point I put it back into one action to amend the bylaws to allow the district 13 I one engineer as well as probably one each from the state house and the state 2 senate to sit on this board In reading the language of the current Joint Powers 3 Agreement, this Body has the power to extend invitations to others to sit on this 4 Board as ex-officio members of the Board, which would be non-voting members 5 In order to extend an invitation for them to be voting members, I believe the 6 change would have to take place within the JPA That having been said, I think 7 we need to discuss at this point do we want to extend some ex-officio invitations 8 for other members to enlarge this Committee through those agencies 9 10 Cadena Tom, I think those three you list there are very important. I think the discussion 11 is the discussion if we're going to make them voting members or not, or what's 12 the idea? 13 14 Murphy- If they need I think that's what we heard out of the Location Study was that 15 they need to be voting members But what I'm saying at this point is under the 16 current Joint Powers Agreement the Policy Committee only has the authority to 17 expand membership in the board to ex-officio members It defines ex-officio as a 18 non-voting member 19 20 Cadena Okay, yes, Mayor Pro-Tem 21 22 Archuleta Thank you Mr Chairman Tom, refresh my memory as to why we didn't do it 23 when it came before this board before There was a lot of dialogue and I can't 24 remember now why 25 26 Murphy- If I recall, and that took place at the November 2005 Policy Committee meeting 27 where we discussed it last to add the district engineer onto the Policy board 1 28 think at that point a majority of the members who were at that meeting didn't think 29 that it was worthwhile to have the district engineer on the board I believe Mayor, 30 Mayor Pro-Tem you two were the only members from the Policy Committee who 31 are still on the board and I believe neither one of you were in attendance that 32 night. I remember myself 33 34 Cadena Can't blame us then 35 36 Murphy- But I do recall that it was five members on there it was like a three to two vote 37 and the three members who voted against it left the board shortly thereafter 38 39 Cadena Again, we've discussed this at length and we've decided during that training that 40 it's very important to have them the New Mexico Department of Transportation 41 and also some representatives from the house and senate I think adding three 42 people at this point would be the appropriate thing to do I mean we discussed 43 about bring others and others, but I think at this point at the same time we want 44 the committee to get too large, so I think that's where we ought to start with and 45 in future years if we think we need to add, then we can consider that as well 46 14 I Murphy- I think immediately we could extend offers as ex-officio members to see how it 2 kind of works the dynamic of it. The question in my mind would be whether those 3 individuals would want to accept appointments as ex-officio members And 1 4 don't know if I want to put Mr Guzman on the spot or let him come back at a later 5 time as far as what he feels about that. Would he rather wait for a JPA to be 6 renegotiated or to accept a seat on the Board even though it's non-voting at this 7 point? 8 9 Cadena I'll go ahead and put him on the spot since you don't want to 10 11 Guzman Thank you Mr Chairman, certainly from district one, NMDOT's perspective we 12 would like to wait for that JPA you know to take its course We certainly feel 13 we've always felt all along that a district engineer could bring a lot of value to this 14 group and a lot of technical expertise if you will And that's certainly our bailiwick, 15 so I would certainly suggest that we become part of the board as a voting 16 member 17 18 Cadena Through the JPA. Thank you for your input. Tom, what's our do we have a 19 timeline to try to get that JPA passed by all the entities? 20 21 Murphy- Mr Chairman, Mr Matthew from the general office in Santa Fe has been working 22 on the details of that. I haven't gotten an update on that recently, but I know 23 that's something that they've been waiting to get started And I think they wanted 24 to kind of hear some of the input from your meeting on the Location Study before 25 actually releasing it. So I think it sounds like I can report back to him that yes 26 Policy board is anxious for this to get going 27 28 Cadena I believe so 29 30 Perez: Mr Chairman 31 32 Cadena Yes 33 34 Perez I just had a question about the makeup of the EI Paso MPO Do they have a 35 TXDOT representative on their board? 36 37 Murphy- Mr Chair, Commissioner Perez, yes, they have both the TXDOT representative 38 and a New Mexico Department of Transportation representative 39 40 Perez. I thought that's what I remembered from the discussions, but I just wanted to ask 41 See what the history was on that. 42 43 Murphy- Mr Chair, and if I could expand on that, the mid region Council of Governments 44 which is the Albuquerque MPO, they also have a New Mexico Department of 45 Transportation representative on it. 46 15 I Cadena Commissioner Krahling 2 3 Krahling Do they have House of Representatives and state senate members on there? 4 5 Murphy- The El Paso MPO, yes They even have they have a representative and a 6 senator both from New Mexico 7 8 Krahling Both from New Mexico? 9 10 Murphy- Yeah, as well And they have Texas representatives 11 12 Krahling So as far as getting participation from the House of Representatives and the 13 senate, we don't perceive that that would be an issue 14 15 Murphy- And I think that really kind of is going to depend upon the individual actually 16 attending that, but yes 17 18 Krahling My concern is that we go through the process and add these positions and then 19 those people never show up Not that I'm saying I guess I'm just not hearing 20 from any representatives or senators right now saying, hey, oh golly I'd really like 21 to join your board and come to your meetings And we go through this whole 22 process of amending our bylaws and then we have quorum issues because 23 that's my only concern with it is you know it would be nice to kind of get a sense 24 from our State representatives whether or not they see this as a good move just 25 like we did with the Department of Transportation, that's all Thanks 26 27 Cadena I think it would be appropriate we can send letters out to all the local ones and 28 kind of summarizing what we're trying to do and see what kind of interest it might 29 generate 30 31 Krahling And how we would select them 32 33 Cadena Well that's the thing, if we do that then we're going to have to select them in 34 some 35 36 Krahling And would that be a vote here That we'd ask them to submit their names and 37 then we have a vote and then we 38 39 Cadena We could do some type of I don't know That's something that we're going to 40 have to figure out. 41 42 Murphy- Yes Mr Chair, we can check with El Paso MPO, find out what their process for it 43 is I think we need to basically have an unbiased process for it. 44 45 Cadena Maybe somewhat to what we do, we can let them choose themselves, the local 46 group 16 1 2 Jones Thank you Mr Chairman Just a quick comment and something to be thought 3 about is, talking about a board of now 12 people with NMDOT and the other 4 representatives I'm not sure there's anything that says or if we're going to 5 modify the JPA, we can change, what constitutes a quorum A quorum doesn't 6 have to be 51% necessarily I mean we could go if there are 12 people it 7 could be 50%, an even 50% It doesn't have to be a majority We can think 8 about those things and if we're worried about attendance it's a thought. I mean 9 obviously and also I think I know on the ETA there are certain actions we cannot 10 take unless we have a greater number of members, for instance we can't have 11 alternates there and vote on bylaws and certain things like that. So I think we 12 might think and I don't want to do it all tonight, but ways if we're really worried 13 about quorum issues, we can talk about what constitutes a quorum And if we're 14 worried about making a quorum too small of a number and not having a 15 reasonable, I'm going to call it a balance of power, well we can also talk about 16 some issues that would address that as well 17 18 Cadena All that warrants I'm sure staff will research that. But I think Commissioner 19 Krahling has the right idea, we want a couple of people that want to be here for 20 the most part. And I think we should be able to find one of each in this district. 21 Anyone else? 22 23 Perez. Mr Chairman 24 25 Cadena Yes 26 27 Perez. I always had a question about another we're talking about quorum We have 28 kind of a debate in the County of whether or not having three members, because 29 that does constitute a quorum in the County, and I think you have the same deal 30 in Mesilla, or having a majority of our members sitting on the board Have we 31 discussed at all whether or not it would be appropriate then to scale back our 32 representation to Mesilla, to City to County, add the DOT and add the 33 representatives so that there's a little bit more of a balance? Just a thought. 34 That may not appeal to anybody, but it's twelve is a very unwieldy committee 35 and then having one representative from the minority I don't know how 36 comfortable that is because it does have kind of an enormous balance of power 37 on the elected officials side and a well I guess in general the state and the 38 senate But I don't know if we've talked about that at all and I don't know how 39 anybody else feels about that but to make the committee more balance and a 40 little less unwieldy I wonder if that isn't something we should consider 41 42 Archuleta Mr Chairman I go along with that. Mr Chairman, thank you Commissioner 43 you have a good idea And there's no reason why three from the City, and three 44 from the County, we could reduce that by just two each and that would be 45 workable, something to think about. 46 17 I Krahling Yeah, Mr Chair, I don't have a problem with that either I think it makes sense 2 That's what I was thinking when I was looking at that and I was adding all the 3 numbers in my head and thinking this was going to be a big group of people 4 when you start adding everyone together 5 6 Cadena Well that would have to be grandfathered in All of you would have to stay 7 8 Krahling No, I'm getting ready to leave, just kidding 9 10 Archuleta But I think we need to look back as to why we have three from each What's the 11 reason for it? 12 13 Cadena The only issue I can think of is what you brought up in the first place, what 14 happens when you know someone doesn't show up then, and you back to the 15 1 guess you just have to get people that are going to come to the meetings 16 17 Perez Again we have that uncomfortable and the reason I bring it up is we do have 18 the uncomfortable position where the City does not have a majority of their 19 members on this board But the County and Mesilla does, so now we have three 20 of five County Commissioners making policy decisions and there are some 21 there is it does kind of create a grey area where we have a majority of our 22 board represented on this committee and there are several others that we have 23 the same issue Where Mesilla again you have a majority, we have a majority, 24 but the City does not. So it's kind of an odd it's an odd quorum or an odd 25 balance of power issue as well, even dust in and among our boards Maybe it's 26 time to kind of revisit that. Of course the third person would be the alternate We 27 would always consistently have those so we wouldn't have the attendance 28 issues But it might be a nice a better balance and it might alleviate some of 29 the concerns I know the County has had, maybe Mesilla has not had the 30 concerns with the discussions that the County has about. 31 32 Cadena About a quorum 33 34 Perez About having a majority of your members sitting on certain boards 35 36 Cadena Councilor 37 38 Jones Thank you Mr Chairman, something that we have to maybe think about and all 39 excellent ideas to discuss, excellent items for discussion Just throw this out, it 40 may be obvious, but I'll state it, is we obviously don't write we don't agree 41 upon the JPA amongst ourselves It is actually signed by respective bodies So 1 42 think it's lust incumbent on us to point out the additional step and that is for the 43 County at some point to discuss their issue with the rest of the Commissioners 44 and the City with the rest of the council etc and so forth I know we get in this 45 discussion at the ETA and we're asked to make certain changes and then we 46 have to remind the public we can't make certain changes We're appointed to 18 I this board, we can't we operate under a JPA established by two different 2 entities So I think lust remembering that. But it's certainly good food for thought 3 and discussion at different levels Thank you 4 5 Cadena Very good Well Tom I think you've got some direction from the Committee here 6 as to what we need to look at, bring back for discussion Let's move on then to 7 the user fees, action 10 8 9 Murphy- Okay Action 10 was to develop a schedule for fees for staff work that really is 10 done on items that are kind of beyond the bare bones MPO duties And the 11 discussion on that kind of really centered on that you know the Location Study 12 kind of identified more of a need for MPO funding to you know kind of increase 13 some of the things that can be done from a staff level One strategy for doing 14 that was to kind of charge set up charges for things that don't perform the 15 MPO core functions Kind of an example of that would be if you know traffic 16 engineer from your government asked us to do a special traffic count, we would 17 go out, now if scheduling permits we go out there, conduct the traffic count, 18 provide the data for that. Under something like a fee schedule we would actually 19 charge for that work that the MPO does because it's not part of our core function 20 21 Cadena So you'd charge it to who, the entity? 22 23 Murphy- Yes, whether it be the Department of Transportation asking for it or the City 24 asking for it or whoever 25 26 Cadena Isn't that kind of tight ended the fees we pay originally? 27 28 Murphy- The fees we pay originally and the local match and what goes towards the and 29 then we get federal PL funds There are several core functions that the MPO 30 carries out. In carrying out some of those core functions we've kind of evolved to 31 where we kind of do more than what's specifically called out in the core functions 32 They kind of exist they're somewhat needed, traffic counts is the example 1 33 used, we use that in support of the state's federal reporting on the highway 34 performance management system We also use it for basically for verification 35 and calibration of the travel demand model However, if we're to go out and the 36 Town of Mesilla asked us to count the traffic around the plaza on such and such 37 a weekend, that's, you know, something that we can do, however it's outside the 38 core function 39 40 Cadena So each entity would have to create a budget for it I'm assuming It seems a little 41 premature First of all has the issue with the County been resolved? Are they 42 paying into this in the first place? 43 44 Murphy- No, and that's one of the items of discussion for the JPA. 45 46 Cadena Okay I think we just need 19 1 2 Perez. I wasn't aware of that. Sorry I didn't know that there was still an issue about 3 that. I thought that had been resolved 4 5 Murphy- If I could ask 6 7 Perez. Thank you No, thank you for bringing it up 8 9 Cadena Well maybe since I brought it up, we're discussing it. Would it be appropriate 10 Tom for you, I, and one of the Commissioners or both of them to meet possibly 11 with the County manager and kind of go over this Isn't he the one that puts the 12 budget together? 13 14 Perez. Theoretically we have input on it, but we all know how that works So yes, that 15 would be appropriate I think 16 17 Cadena Can you set something up on my request so we can at least discuss it? 18 19 Murphy- Yes, certainly 20 21 Perez And just my two cents on this fee schedule though, the thought that I had once 22 we work out the other issue which is yeah, it should've been resolved a very 23 long time ago and I'm sorry it has not. But I look at the fee schedule and things 24 like traffic counts, if we need that done we can either spend the money to a 25 service, an in-house service like this because MPO is our staff, or I can go out 26 and I can hire their consultants that do that and then the money travels outside of 27 the County or the City or you know whoever is having to pay it. I would much 28 rather pay to have it done in house, it's going to be less expensive, it's going to 29 be more efficient, and we're able to use the data in multiple ways, calibration of 30 models and it supplements our data base as opposed to hiring a consultant. So 31 if we look at that kind of services I was taking to Mr Hume right at the 32 beginning of the meeting, now I'm embarrassed because I didn't realize the other 33 issue hadn't been resolved about coming out and helping us with a community 34 issue we have on Harper Road That kind of facilitating and Charettes and things 35 that you do really well that we do not do well, it would make sense to me to pay 36 for that service and again keep the money in house that we're helping to fund 37 one and other, much better than hiring an outside facilitator who doesn't have 38 half of the information or the baseline data that you all have So, that's the kind 39 of way I looked at it from the County side, but again, wow, I'm in that awkward 40 position, assuming we straighten out the other issue That would be my position 41 there Thank you Mr Chairman 42 43 S Thomas Mr Chair 44 45 Cadena Yes 46 20 I S Thomas This afternoon when I was looking at these materials I ran across this Thurston 2 Regional Planning Council example that the consultant gave us and I think it was 3 in relation to this whole issue And they pointed out that in that case their MPO, 4 the Thurston Regional Planning Council, they had done lots of planning for 5 various towns in that area and then as the towns grew larger and they were able 6 to take that on themselves, the MPO had to kind of reshape itself And some of 7 the things they do, well like Commissioner Perez was just saying, they really kind 8 of market the things they do well And in that case they're quite good at writing 9 grants, they do graphics, mapping, presentation, so they really were able to 10 and I think this was what coming in some ways from the consultant, was that it 11 ought to be possible for our MPO to by going after some grants and developing 12 some capabilities that even beyond doing the kinds of things that we ask them to 13 do, they might that we at this point ask them to do, they might be able to offer 14 even some other capabilities in the future if your MPO staff is able to beef up 15 their abilities I think you already have a couple of pretty good writers and I think 16 that you and as Commissioner Perez pointed out, you're very good at 17 presentations and you know that kind of public input process, so those are the 18 kinds of things that not only the City, County, and Mesilla might want to contract 19 with you for, but other entities as well 20 21 Cadena Tom 22 23 Murphy- So I think what I hear is that staff should kind of further develop that. Kind of 24 come back with maybe a list of services that could possibly be upon such a 25 schedule and you know get additional feedback at a later date, but to actively 26 work on it. 27 28 S Thomas Okay 29 30 Cadena Alright, very good Where are we? 31 32 Murphy We're on actions 13 through 16 33 34 Cadena Yes 35 36 Murphy- Adopt goals, performance measures in the next metropolitan transportation plan 37 As you're aware, we're in process for Transport 2040 and goals and performance 38 measures will be in that. 39 40 Cadena Anything further on that specifically? Alright, and we've talked about action 18 1 41 believe 42 43 Murphy- Yes And I got direction on that. 44 45 Perez I'm sorry I have a question from the peanut gallery down here too What is the 46 amount I know we talked about this last year which is why I thought it was 21 I resolved, how much what is the percentages that go into the budget from each 2 entity? How much is Mesilla and City of Las Cruces putting into your budget? 3 And what should the expected County match be? 4 5 Murphy Mr Chair, Commissioner Perez, according to the currently adopted Joint Powers 6 Agreement is that the City provides the match and any resulting over match 7 Several years ago at request of City administration, an alternate Joint Powers 8 Agreement was put forth where by the City would continue to provide the 9 required match amount and then the overmatch would be split among the City, 10 County, and Mesilla I believe at the percentages of 50%, 45%, and 5% were kind 11 of roughly in line with the population That proposed JPA was presented to the 12 Mesilla Town board and accepted The City Council at the time I believe 13 accepted that, however, we were never at a point where we could get it put onto 14 a board of County Commissioners 15 16 Perez Could you tell us in dollar terms what that might represent? Are we talking a 17 $100,000, are we talking a million dollars, what? 18 19 Cadena $60,000 20 21 Murphy- I believe Mesilla's share was around $5,000 and the County share would have 22 been around $45,000 23 24 Perez Thank you Mr Chair 25 26 Cadena Does that mean it will be on your next agenda? 27 28 Perez. It may not be on the next one, but it'll be on the one after that and I would 29 appreciate that discussion with the County managers 30 31 Cadena Do you know what the City pays? 32 33 Archuleta What does the City pay? 34 35 Murphy- I should know this, right now our planning grant is approximately $156,000 The 36 required match for that is about $28,000 That's the required amount per the 37 FTA guidelines The staffing level of the MPO and the needs of what we're 38 doing, the City actually overmatches to the tune of about I think its $103,000, 39 somewhere in the neighborhood of that. So the City is providing about $130,000 40 towards the operation of the MPO 41 42 Archuleta Mr Chairman And we also, the City also provides office space, is that part of it? 43 44 Murphy- Yes We're provided with City office space We're provided with the services of 45 Mr Banegas who is a City administrator and is now paid out of the MPO budget, 22 I and some clerical support also paid out of the City's general fund, which is not 2 represented in the MPO budget. 3 4 Archuleta Thank you 5 6 Cadena Thank you Mayor Pro-Tem Councilor Thomas 7 8 S Thomas Thank you I'd just like to go back to action one for a minute One of the things 9 that was listed was to consider in the JPA was the define clear roles for the 10 MPO and NMDOT programming process and for NMDOT and the Las Cruces 11 MPO TIP development leaving no ambiguity regarding the origins of projects or 12 how state and MPO projects are created and prioritized In the last few months 13 and again in the last few weeks I've had some experiences where I have come to 14 understand that this is not clearly understood about how things get on the TIP 15 and that projects have to be on the TIP before they can be on the STIP and it's 16 become very clear to me that it's not understood by school districts It's not 17 understood by developers, sometimes not understood by elected officials I've 18 had all of these experiences in the past few weeks or months, others as well 19 And so, I don't know if anything can be done in the JPA about that, but I think that 20 that part of the role of MPO and how projects get set and prioritized and how they 21 get to the state needs to be made very clear And maybe we need to be doing 22 some work where we make sure people are educated about this and understand 23 how it works 24 25 Perez. Assuming any of us understand how it works 26 27 Cadena I'm not sure it needs to be part of a JPA, but certainly I don't know if we need 28 to do resolutions for this body or each entity or create some type of training or 29 something Present it to the various bodies including the school board, I don't 30 know 31 32 S Thomas I lust it's difficult I've had a difficult time convincing various entities that they 33 need to come before this board in order to pursue a project that they think needs 34 to be pursued And I think somehow we're not there's a lack of understanding 35 out there 36 37 Perez Mr Chairman Would this be something that would be an appropriate extension 38 on the website? I mean you guys have a phenomenal website Is there a way to 39 add a page to that that talks about the processing? You have a whole section on 40 working with the MPO Just a single page that says this is what our scoring is, 41 maybe with a link to the appropriate agencies This is what a TIP is This is what 42 a STIP is And just some basic definitions and you know in addition to the 43 working with the MPO part. 44 45 Murphy- Mr Chair, Commissioner Perez, that's something that we can certainly work on 46 We certainly have been doing a lot more in the process of educating, not only 23 I this Board and our other committees, but we're also reaching out to the various 2 staff members as far as you know kind of educating them about the process I 3 think it's something that was brought to light a couple of years ago and I think 4 we've been making some inroads, but there's always going to be more I still 5 continually run into people who have no idea what an MPO is and I'm sure many 6 of you didn't know what an MPO was prior to actually serving on the MPO 7 8 Cadena Prior to being appointed 9 10 Murphy- Education is something that needs to be ongoing and it's a constant challenge, 11 but I think we are making inroads in that. 12 13 Archuleta Mr Chair 14 15 Cadena Mayor Pro-Tem 16 17 Archuleta Thank you Mr Chairman Commissioner Perez, my comment was to that, to 18 what you're suggesting is we don't know what we don't know So we don't know 19 to ask because we don't know So somehow we need to be educated, all of us, 20 legislature, school board, but unless they know to ask, we don't know 21 22 Cadena So you're saying it would be valuable to have it on the website, but there needs 23 to be some type of other 24 25 Archuleta Exactly 26 27 Cadena Of education as well That's a good point. Alright, let's go ahead and move on 28 because we do have several other items 29 30 Murphy- Just real quickly I wanted to go over the supporting actions of the MPO Policy 31 board through the Location Study Action two review research on advising 32 engineer, I think that's something that staff was directed to kind of put together 33 some cost estimates to see what it would take to add an engineer position to 34 MPO staff, whether it be on a contract basis where it would be used at a needed 35 or to add it as a permanent staff member It's something we haven't pursued the 36 research yet, but we'll be bringing back to all of you Action six was to receive 37 input from the BPAC and TAC committees, to communicate directly with the 38 committees I think that will actually happen to be another it's something that 39 we could probably request of the boards right now, is to have their committee 40 chairs come to this meeting and give a report on their committees I think it 41 would certainly be something we want to write into the bylaws concerning each of 42 those committees as a responsibility of the chair or vice-chair of those 43 committees And then one of the actions from the district was for them to provide 44 to us an annual address on their STIP development process, what projects they 45 are developing throughout their district and also specifically within the MPO 46 region in order to give all of you an idea of what kind of challenges they face in 24 I spending their limited resources and how they develop their priorities And I'll 2 work with Mr Guzman to try and find an appropriate time of year to schedule 3 that. When's the best time for them to come deliver that information 4 Action 22 is participate in joint activities with the EI Paso MPO This is 5 actually also agenda item 7 4 2, but Mr Dominguez and I are working on 6 scheduling one I think he is finalizing a couple of potential dates with their policy 7 board, their bigger, harder, more unwieldy than you, and right now we're looking 8 at a couple of dates in August. When we get those narrowed down to a couple 9 we will transmit them back to you We've also begun discussion on a preliminary 10 agenda, some agenda items We want to have some concrete action items that 11 the two MPOs can give their staff's specific direction on things to proceed, just 12 kind of a highlight on one of the ones that come to mind is we certainly would 13 be talking about the commuter rail options and/or commuter bus options between 14 the two cities and probably amend the respective UPWP for both MPOs to direct 15 staff to do more work on that, of course, giving your say so 16 And then action 23, participate in conferences and other educational 17 opportunities wherever possible I think that one of the things that appeal to you 18 as individuals is to kind of look out to educate yourselves on transportation 1 19 think also long-term members of the board will remember when we didn't have 20 training each and every Policy board meeting But we're now having training and 21 you know I can see that all of you are becoming much more attuned to 22 transportation issues and it's really apparent that those training sessions are a 23 valuable thing to continue 24 25 Cadena Very good All those are important actions that we talked about and need to 26 move forward with, anyone else? 27 28 73 Committee Training Transportation Legislation Reauthorization 29 30 Andy Hume gave a presentation 31 32 Cadena Andy, other than toll roads, do they do highway milage fees anywhere now, and 33 how do they do it? 34 35 Hume I believe actually they're looking at them in Oregon They're looking at it on a 36 state level, for certain states they're looking at them, but not national 37 38 Cadena And where you go somewhere and they read your milage or how does that work? 39 40 Hume You know I'm not really sure exactly how it works I know some of them are tied 41 to insurance, and so you need to record on your insurance renewals how many 42 miles you drove and then they use that to prorate different things Also, they're 43 looking into ITS solutions, Intelligent Transportation System solutions, where they 44 would have for example roadside monitors where it would communicate your 45 vehicle and things like that. But those are purely experimental A lot of this stuff 25 I though with VMT which is the Vehicle Miles Traveled and charging for that are 2 experimental at this point 3 4 Cadena Alright. Thank you 5 6 Hume So I'm not going to read through all this list here and Chairman Overstar's 7 reauthorization plan and we understand that the house bill they're looking at 8 starting markup of the house bill this month within the Transportation Committee 9 The senate bill was also introduced recently and we have Soshi Torres from 10 Senator Udall's office and she's going to provide an update in just a couple of 11 minutes from the Senator's office as well We're very happy to have her with us 12 But a couple of things I want to point out here, the first is that a lot of what is 13 going on with the next transportation bill is going to focus a lot on metropolitan 14 areas Now according to the definition of metropolitan areas, we don't have any 15 in New Mexico because they're looking at metro areas of a million people or 16 greater The other sort of aspect of this is a lot of looking at rural and the needs 17 of the rural areas which of course puts us sort of in a limbo area In fact all the 18 MPOs in our area are sort of in a limbo area and we're keeping a close eye on 19 this because it would give the metro areas a tremendous amount of authority for 20 the larger MPOs, as well as a large cut of the monies, and certainly there are a 21 lot of issues in the metro areas But we're concerned from the smaller MPOs 22 perspective, you know, are we going to get caught sort of in a limbo We're 23 interested in how a lot of those details are going to be worked out. We'll keep 24 you up to date on those 25 26 S Thomas Could I ask a question of it? I was impressed by how large Jeff Steinborn said 27 our combined area is with EI Paso A lot of the big metro areas on the east coast 28 cross state lines, seems like we should be a point area with EI Paso 29 30 Cadena Makes sense but I think they're talking about metro, giant metro things like L.A. 31 and those types of areas 32 33 Hume I think there are a couple aspects, first of all it's important to note that those 34 numbers included Ciudad Juarez, which is in a different country and so would not 35 necessarily be included in that discussion as far as U S Transportation dollars 36 The other part of it is that not saying that we couldn't cross state lines because 37 there are I mean there are big megalopolises I guess is the term, huge metro 38 areas that certainly cross state lines and stuff like that back east. There's a 39 different mentality I think out here in the west about MPOs In fact, you know 40 there was a discussion at one point about how far the EI Paso MPO was coming 41 into New Mexico And so there are different, I'm not saying that's right or wrong, 42 but there are different sort of ways of looking at metro areas out west than there 43 are back east. I think it's an important part of the overall discussion with our joint 44 MPOs and our coordination like we've been talking about with the Location 45 Study I think it's certainly a valid issue to bring up 26 1 The other thing I wanted to point out is the next to last main bullet about 2 hitting performance goals, this is something that we're already looking at with our 3 next major Metropolitan Transportation Plan, and it's something that we're going 4 to be interested in seeing what type of performance goals they're interested in 5 MPOs and DOTs actually achieving and how we would achieve those, and 6 particularly working together to achieve those goals 7 Again, here are some items we're trying to provide a synopsis from the 8 AMPO's position A couple of things I want to point out here, the second bullet, 9 to use these programs to reduce petroleum demand from the transportation 10 section and the next to last bullet about the age of our interstate system and our 11 transportation system in general It's an aging system And maintenance in 12 particular and I certainly I'm sure the DOT would back me up on this, 13 maintenance in particular has been woefully underfunded for quite a number of 14 years now And so now we have a system where you know our bridges need 15 replacing, roadbeds are failing, etc So these are really important items that are 16 being taken up in the discussion With that I'm going to reserve the rest of the 17 slides the rest of the slides are in your handout and what I'll do is I'm not going 18 to go over them, but certainly in going over them later on, if you have questions, 19 please let us know and we'd be more than happy to talk with you about them 20 further And if there seems to be some common questions, we can certainly 21 bring it back for another training session 22 At this point in time what I'd like to do is I'd like to introduce Xochitl Torres 23 who is a representative from Senator Udall's office I might point out before she 24 loins us that two of our five New Mexico delegates to D C sit on very powerful 25 transportation commissions and committees rather So with that I'll turn the dais 26 over to Ms Torres 27 28 Archuleta Mr Chairman 29 30 Cadena Yes 31 32 Archuleta Are they two of the newer ones? 33 34 Hume Yes, Congressman Teague is on the Transportation and Infrastructure 35 Committee with Chair Overstar And you told me what the other one was 36 Soshi, go ahead 37 38 Archuleta Okay 39 40 Cadena Thank you Xochitl Thank you for being here 41 42 Torres Thank you So actually I'll amend that just slightly It's of the entire deligation 43 three of the five sit on committees that review whatever SAFETEA-LU becomes 44 So it's Harry Teague which in the house is taking on this bill first. The senate is 45 in very early stages of working with the bill So Harry Teague will be the first 46 person to really grapple with this and you've seen it as he's introduced 27 I amendments or a bill that will probably turn into an amendment. He is on the 2 commerce and infrastructure committee I believe, it's the main committee that will 3 overview SAFETEA-LU in the house And then on the senate side both of your 4 senators, Senator Udall is on environment and public works which is actually the 5 biggest committee, it's the one that gets the first look at the bill and the first mark 6 up for the bill Then after that he's also on the commerce science and 7 transportation committee, and that has a smaller chunk. And I'll explain so the 8 environment and public works chunk of the bill is in charge of the highway 9 account which has been talked about here, it's the one that's in huge deficit. It's 10 the one that is in charge of most of the programs in SAFETEA-LU or whatever it 11 will become I'll call it SAFETEA-LU for now So they're in charge of most of the 12 programs that are going on Commerce science and transportation contrary to 1 13 think what a lot of people would expect, its part is really dust focused on safety of 14 the roads and also including the railroad safety component. And so the senator 15 is looking into possibilities there with bike and pedestrian safety, and also with 16 railroad safety and signaling, which was mentioned earlier 17 Then the other, Senator Bingaman on the Finance Committee and the 18 finance has a minor role, but they actually do because some of this is paid 19 through by taxes and a lot of it is paid through the highway tax, but because 20 we're looking at other ways to fund it, they have a role in it. The other committee 21 on the senate site that we'll be looking at it is the banking committee and dust for 22 you guys to note, the banking committee is actually the part that deals with most 23 mass transit aspects because with a lot of the programs the mass transit funding 24 is also a shared funding with the City or the local region that using that transit, so 25 the banking committee has that role 26 So that's how the bill will be dissected once the senate gets it. As 1 27 mentioned, really the senate is having the house take the first crack at it and it's 28 probably because there's a lot of challenges that'll be faced The mayor one is 29 the funding issue, but there are also big issues, is how much goes to transit and 30 how flexible is the money between the highway money and the transit money and 31 also most transit issues are covered by the banking committee, that flexibility 32 component is covered by environment and public works So that's one area 33 where we've got. The other issue is when we're talking about mass transit, how 34 much goes to facilitating old projects and keeping maintenance up for that, and 35 how much goes to what's called the new starts program In the previous 36 administration a lot of effort had gone to really perhaps curtailing the new starts 37 program, which is I think what we would be most interested in here It's the 38 program for new projects So you know if the feasibility program comes out, we 39 would then or the City of Las Cruces would then apply to the new starts 40 program to get funding, so there had been an attempt to curtail it, but still in 41 discussion There's also discussion about whether it should expand it. So that's 42 one of the issues that we'll be grappling with 43 So once that happens, you know the environment and public works will 44 have first crack at introducing amendments and, you know, changing the bill 45 Then it will go to the other three committees for the senate In light of that, last 46 month the environment and public works had a hearing about SAFETEA-LU in 28 I general, and it was with the under secretary LaHood, transportation, and so 2 we talked about a few things Senator made two specific comments, first about 3 the decreasing infrastructure and how much of the funds for the massive amount 4 of money that half a trillion dollars is necessary just for maintaining already 5 existing infrastructure, and that's a huge crisis point The other comment he 6 made was about finding alternatives to automobiles, and already looking at ways 7 to do that So he's standing out in support of those things LaHood made a 8 comment that although the recovery money was fantastic and helpful, it's really 9 not enough to create a sustainable system I think we all know that, with the 10 gigantic need for failing infrastructure Again for the senator, that big issue is the 11 bridges and the other things that need to be maintained, we don't have a choice 12 They're there and if they fail us there are drastic consequences 13 The last thing I just want to say is once the senate does get it, we're 14 actually really well positioned The house will also face an issue of donor versus 15 donee payment, so basically the majority, the more populous states are paying 16 more of the taxes and yet the smaller states need the infrastructure, both the 17 highways and you know in cases mass transit, to function And so the house 18 well they grappled with that is kind of weighted towards is definitely weighted 19 towards the more populus states, because they have more representatives But 20 in the senate we can temper that a little bit. And that will be the senator's goal 21 is really to represent the state and our needs to make sure that even the smaller 22 populated states have access to the money they need for the infrastructure they 23 need We're well positioned, one because we've got two senators on two half of 24 the committees, no three-fourths of the committees, and the other reason is 25 because the ranking member, whose a republican on the environment and public 26 works committee is from Oklahoma So he also although won't side with us on a 27 lot of issues, will side on the donor versus donee conflict That's the inside ball 28 game You have any other questions? 29 30 Cadena Thank you for being here, any comments or questions for Ms Torres? Andy, do 31 you have something? Do you have some relationship to this? Councilor 32 Thomas 33 34 S Thomas Thanks I just wanted to add that I was happy that you brought up the new starts 35 program because one of the things I wanted to say was that if we do get any 36 funding to do with the corridor study for the commuter rail we want to make sure 37 that we get the kind of information that would allow us to apply for the new stars 38 program So we need to keep that in mind Thank you Nice information 39 40 Torres Thank you And the other good thing about us taking it second is we really are 41 here to take comments and ideas about how it could be shaped, realizing what 42 committees were in and how that affects the bill But really as you come up with 43 ideas about how we can maybe you'll have a solution of how to pay for it, or 44 other components, please communicate with our office so that we can sent those 45 up right away 46 29 I S Thomas And you'll call on us too if there are things you want us to support or know about 2 and keep us informed, that'd be great 3 4 Torres Absolutely And seeing how things would affect Las Cruces and the surrounding 5 area and Dona Ana I mean that's the other part as sometimes we not exactly 6 sure what some kind of challenge would be and so we'll need that feedback too 7 8 Cadena Very good Andy 9 10 Hume Mr Chair, members of the Committee, dust to wrap up this training session, I 11 want to say first of all a big thanks to Commissioner Teague's office and 12 Senators Udall and Bingaman's office because they're representatives, we've 13 been so locked in with their representatives of late trying to keep a handle on not 14 only with all the (inaudible) issues but certainly all of the upcoming issues with 15 the next transportation bill and we really appreciate that. We have direct contact 16 with their representatives, their field reps on transportation issues, so if you all 17 have any questions, you're not sure if maybe you don't have their email 18 addresses or what have you, let us know, we can provide that too you We can 19 also be a conduit for the conversations between you all so we make sure we get 20 the broadest input on particular issues that affect our areas The other thing that 21 1 want to make sure that we do and to let you, yesterday the latest edition of our 22 newsletter, our e-newsletter came out. In every issue we're going to try and 23 provide you all with the most up to date information within the past 30 days or so 24 of the transportation reauthorization We want to make that commitment to you 25 all so you can be kept as up to date as possible We get a lot of communications 26 from a lot of different areas, a lot of different organizations, we try to synthesize 27 all of that and provide you with the most up to date information So we will 28 continue that with you all particularly through our e-newsletter, but also through 29 our Committee meetings as well 30 31 Cadena I went through that and it was very well done and I think it's important to make us 32 more efficient and better prepared for these meetings as well 33 34 Archuleta Mr Chairman 35 36 Cadena Yes 37 38 Archuleta I just wanted to congratulate you on your award and the nice picture in the paper 39 today 40 41 Hume Thank you very much 42 43 Cadena I agree, very well done 44 45 Hume Appreciate that. 46 30 1 7 4 Staff Updates 2 3 7 4 1 Transport 2040 4 5 Caeri Thomas gave an update on Transport 2040 6 7 Cadena Very impressive so far, anybody? Mayor Pro-Tem 8 9 Archuleta Thank you I don't have questions I think that's a very ambitious project and is it 10 all doable? 11 12 C Thomas Yeah, we have to get it done or we don't get federal funding 13 14 Archuleta But it is very impressive Yes 15 16 C Thomas It's due next June, so it's going to be a lot of work This is you know what we 17 need to be most of our focus needs to be on 18 19 Archuleta Very good Thank you 20 21 Cadena Anyone else? 22 23 S Thomas Can you go back to the vision that you said was up for ? I note in other things 24 you have active and healthy and so I guess I think some of those concepts 25 probably are going to need to be folded into the vision when we get to that point. 26 27 Cadena Thank you Councilor Thank you 28 29 C Thomas Thank you 30 31 32 74.2 Joint Policy Board meeting between LCMPO and EPMPO 33 34 Cadena Las Cruces MPO, EI Paso MPO 35 36 Murphy- Mr Chair, members of the Committee As I had gone through earlier, we are 37 working with the EI Paso MPO staff to develop a joint meeting It'll probably 38 we're probably shooting around kind of a morning to afternoon, they promised 39 they'd buy all of you lunch type of meeting and they said we're still looking at 40 some dates in August. We're also still in the process of developing the agenda 41 So if you had any specific agenda items that you like me to suggest, by all means 42 contact me and I'll go ahead and get that added 43 44 Archuleta Mr Chairman, I don't have any agenda items, but it really would help us if you 45 gave us a heads up on the dates because that's 46 31 I Cadena Yeah, as soon as you get those if you'll start contacting the Policy Committee so 2 we can start organizing their calendars 3 4 Murphy- Absolutely 5 6 Archuleta Thank you 7 8 Cadena Very good 9 10 Murphy And Mr Dominguez and I did sit down with you know to make sure it's not going 11 to be Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning because you know we are aware of 12 those conflicts 13 14 Cadena Very good 15 16 Murphy- That's taken into account. 17 18 7 4.3 NMDOT news and updates 19 20 Cadena New Mexico Department of Transportation You're going to pass tonight, alright. 21 Thanks for being here anyway 22 23 7.4 4 Development Review 24 25 Cadena Alright, development review, Tom 26 27 Murphy- We had nothing, just included in your packets for your information 28 29 8 COMMITTEE AND STAFF COMMENTS 30 31 Cadena Committee or staff comments 32 33 Perez. Just a brief one 34 35 Cadena Yes 36 37 Perez Between the last meeting and this one Mr Dominguez and, I've already forgotten 38 her name because my head isn't very good, but two members from the DOT 39 came and met with Mr Granados and myself and with Mr Hume to discuss 40 Berino Road which was very lively at our last meeting, and I've already 41 apologized to Mr Delarosa All kinds of misinformation that I brought in with me 42 at the last meeting, but the short version of it is, it kind of sparked a really good 43 dialogue in some places where the County was not aware of some procedural 44 issues and they learned a lot and will be doing some training the DOT has 45 offered to come in and do some training with the County engineering staff to get 46 them a little better centered on things like some of the environmental regulations 32 I that have been very casual in the past and now have become very structured 2 Not new policies but certainly more scrutinized and more structured in the past 3 years So we learned a lot. And I really appreciate the time that DOT took to 4 come in and sit with us, get us educated Mr Hume was able to discuss a little 5 bit better the reclassification process and we kind of went through that and we're 6 able to reassure And then we learned a little bit about DOT too about what 7 happens when it leaves our office and goes to the Santa Fe people, which is then 8 another layer of the funding process And sometimes our priorities may not get 9 lost here locally, but they certainly do in Santa Fe, which I don't think is any 10 surprise to anyone So it was really, really good communication, really good 11 opportunity for some training and some learning And we're going to work much, 12 much better together in the future So it was a good opportunity I really 13 appreciate it. 14 15 Cadena Thank you for sharing that with us Sometimes it takes those kind of sit down 16 discussions to resolve issues and that's a positive 17 18 Perez. It does And the short version of it is Berino Road when it does get through these 19 hurdles now that we're coordinating better, will hopefully be placed back on the 20 next round of funding and it will be included as well as the Mesilla projects 21 22 Cadena Yeah, we passed the reclassification through the 23 24 Perez Exactly 25 26 Cadena Consent agenda tonight So that's a positive 27 28 Archuleta Commissioner Perez, you did not we're you successful in meeting with the 29 governor? 30 31 Perez. On the way out of the meeting where I said and he said oh no, no, no we 32 talked about Berino Road Well they talked about it and he assured them that it 33 was on the every list and it was where it was supposed to be, not realizing that 34 there had been some gap in communication so I have since talked to his staff 35 and gotten a little better centered and then Mr Dominguez was going to follow up 36 as well so that he could assure them that we were in fact coordinated working 37 together And that they bluntly gotten the County in line so that we can meet the 38 requirements to get on that list. 39 40 Cadena Councilor Thomas 41 42 C Thomas Thank you Mr Mayor I lust passed out something I have extras here if 43 anybody out there wants them There's an initiative that was started kind of in 44 response to again to the RF or the stimulus money Senator Fishman came to 45 the City Council and we asked about being able to plan better and have some 46 plans ready as funding comes along And what came out of it was this 33 I sustainable energy initiative So this group is headed mostly by Senator 2 Fishman and Paul Gutierrez who's a vice president over at New Mexico State 3 They've had several meetings They've laid out how they're going to set up this 4 and so they have a mission and they have potential participants So this first 5 handout is something you can look at later, how it's going to operate If you look 6 on the second page where it says sustainable energy initiative focus groups, 7 these are the five areas they've carved out to work on Initially mostly in 8 response to RF funds, but they're looking at public building efficiency That's 9 things like getting photovoltaic on public buildings Pretty much Senator Fishman 10 has taken that on No, I'm sorry; Nathan Small has taken that one on 11 Private building efficiency, Bob Hem and Miguel Silva are working on that 12 one That has to do with moneys that are available for weatherization They're 13 hoping to bring together you know Dona Ana, Luna, Sierra, try to bring put 14 together a sort of southern New Mexico coalition, but next around of RF funds 15 are competitive grants and you have to show that you have partners across 16 entities and you have public and private partners And so if your group is or 17 you have a group or a project and you're interested in working on this energy 18 efficiency, conservation initiative, please e-mail me and I'll try to put you in touch 19 with the particular people There's a green grid group in this case for the 20 competitive funds the state of New Mexico is orchestrating that one, but New 21 Mexico state and EI Paso Electric are heavily involved We'll skip the 22 transportation for a minute The last one is utility scale renewables That's the 23 one Senator Fishman is working on that are changes that might come through 24 PRC or state legislation or some of the things we're talking about with the County 25 about being able to get funding to put PV on your house and then pay it off on 26 your property tax, so those kinds of initiatives 27 1 got the transportation piece and so I have the other piece of paper that 28 you have is with the map and the attached description is the project that my 29 subgroup came up with We started talking to the Dona Ana County ground work 30 people because they're getting pretty close to finishing up the section of the Rio 31 Grande Trail that's in our area that goes along the river And we started talking 32 about how we could connect that to other facilities in our area, primarily 33 connected over to the Triviz trail to begin with So we're looking at a southern 34 trail that goes through Mesilla, along Calle Del Norte, and down 28, over to 35 University and something that would go through the outfall channel 36 Later I talked to Andy and Caeri and we looked at some things that are on 37 the MPO trails and the yellow lines are things that you know might be a next 38 round of possibilities I heard from Donny Brainard yesterday whose company is 39 Alameda Property Group and he's working on a trail that will go along the dam 40 and then cut over and connect with Sonoma Ranch and go under 1-25 and 41 connect with the Triviz trail, so we're kind of moving slowly but surely toward a 42 system of river to mountain trails, which I think is very exciting We also, Mayor 43 Pro-Tem and I both had visits today from Seth Bardwell from the World Wildlife 44 Fund and they are proposing to work with a group of people to try to enhance 45 some of the natural conservation behind the dam where we have some water 34 I and it supports some wildlife and how can we work out those issues with the 2 Army Corps of Engineers and so on 3 So I want to know how I can move this forward and I did talk to Tom about 4 it a little bit. We need some engineering specifications for that. We have gone to 5 the City of Las Cruces, City Council They are working on a resolution for us for 6 both the big project, the big energy, sustainable energy initiative, and for this trail 7 1 have talked to Mayor Cadena I'd like to come to the County and talk to you 8 about the part of the trail that goes through the County, and I'd like to talk about 9 how we can get it on the MPO TIP 10 11 Cadena Wow, a lot of important, exciting things going on and thanks Councilor Thomas 12 for taking the lead, and to those others for taking that lead And I'm sure we'll 13 certainly put this on the list for discussion and things that we need to do Tom, 14 anybody else on the Committee? 15 16 Murphy- Two comments Mr Chair She had to leave, but the new face in the crowd, 17 Linda Cohen, she's working with MPO staff She's actually being paid for out of a 18 grant that was given to RoadRUNNER Transit, but she's going to be working very 19 closely with MPO And she is working on developing the more localized 20 coordinated human services transportation plan We're working on tying and 21 integrating human services with the transportation aspect. Because of the late 22 hour she had to 23 24 Cadena Remind me at the next meeting, maybe you can introduce the whole staff at the 25 next meeting at the beginning 26 27 Murphy Those who left early we won't warn them And the only other thing, just a 28 reminder, we do not have a Policy Committee meeting in July We're hoping to 29 get the point one with the EI Paso and that will be in EI Paso, but your regular 30 meeting in August, that'll be at the Commission Chambers, so I just wanted to put 31 that reminder out at this point. 32 33 9 PUBLIC COMMENT 34 35 Cadena Any public comments? 36 37 10 ADJOURNMENT — (7 10 p m ) 38 39 Cadena I'll entertain a motion to adjourn 40 41 Archuleta Mr Chairman, before we adjourn, did we respond to your requests? 42 43 S Thomas Mr Murphy responded You need some engineering and cost in order for us to 44 consider it to add it to the TIP And I do have some people working on that. 45 Does it need to go to the BPAC and TAC first? 46 35 i i I Murphy What it would be would it have to get a jurisdiction or some sort of project 2 sponsor to submit a TIP application The TIP application would then go through 3 the process of going through both the BPAC and the TAC and then up to the 4 Policy Committee for final action 5 6 S Thomas And can it be point jurisdictions or should it just be one? 7 8 Murphy- It could be point. 9 10 S Thomas Okay, alright, thanks 11 12 Cadena Just work with staff and cc me and we'll get on the proper agendas at the proper 13 time 14 15 Perez Just a real quick one on the trail system too I know at one point when we were 16 wrangling over the high school site, that there was talk of extending the existing 17 Missouri bike path out into the new high school site And I wonder if because [ 18 know you're looking at that open space area anyway with the BLM and that area 19 in between, whether or not that would be a logical extension of that loop to pick 20 up to extend off of Missouri and that bike path extend down through the high 21 school site I know we're looking at multiuse paths or paths along Dripping 22 Springs, to coordinate and that might be a nice loop And once the City annexes 23 it frankly there won't even be a jurisdictional issue, it'll be City 24 25 S Thomas Well, and also the Sonoran Institute is coming on July, can't remember if it's 26 seventh or ninth, to work with the public on planning that whole area So 27 certainly make that part of our 28 29 Cadena Before we adjourn, it'd be to the best of our abilities it'd be nice showing if we 30 could attend that joint meeting with EI Paso, so staff if you could work on that 31 diligently and get that schedule out. Can we adjourn? 32 33 Archuleta Move to adjourn 34 35 Perez Second 36 37 Cadena I see no opposition, we're so adjourned 38 39 40 41 42 Chair 43 36