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10-27-1992 1 1 2 3 4 CITY OF LAS CRUCES 5 6 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION 7 8 HELD ON OCTOBER 27, 1992 9 10 7 : 30 p.m. 11 12 CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS 13 14 15 16 COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Eddie Perez 17 Commissioner Kay Willis 18 Commissioner Roger Lord 19 Commissioner Sharlyn Linard 20 Commissioner Harold Daw 21 Commissioner Richard Killian 22 23 STAFF PRESENT: David Weir 24 Mark Simms 25 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 2 1 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : I will call the meeting to S 2 order . This meeting will be conducted following Robert' s 3 Rules of Order. If any member of the public has a comment 4 or question that he or she wishes to address to the 5 Commission, they will be recognized by the chair , and they 6 will state their name so it can be entered into the 7 permanent record. Each person will be recognized once on 8 each case for a time period not exceeding three minutes . 9 If someone has new or additional information, then that 10 individual will be given one additional minute to speak 11 after all citizens who wish to speak on the case have been 12 recognized. 13 When a large number of citizens wish to discuss the 14 case as a neighborhood group, then 15 minutes will be 15 allowed for a group spokesperson, if one had been selected 16 by a neighborhood group as their representative . If this 17 spokesperson is elected, then all citizens wanting to speak 18 on that case will be given one additional minute . 19 The Planning and Zoning Commission is meeting tonight 20 to have a public hearing on two zoning code amendments, one 21 special use permit, two planned unit developments and to 22 make recommendations to the City Council to either approve 23 or deny the request for zone changes, annexations or 24 amendments to the zoning code . The City Council will make 25 the final decision on these requests at its meeting. PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 3 1 The Planning and Zoning Commission will grant final 2 approval or denial on requests for all special use permits, 3 subdivisions and planned unit developments at tonight' s 4 meeting. Any person adversely affected by the decisions of 5 this commission may file a written appeal stating the 6 grounds for his appeal to the City Council within 15 days of 7 this meeting. 8 Of the items on the agenda - - we have three items on 9 the consent agenda which are the minutes of May 27 , 1992, 10 August 25, 1992 , August 27 , 1992 . 11 Does anyone in the audience wish to remove these items 12 from the consent agenda? 13 Anyone on the Commission wish to remove these items 14 from the consent agenda? 15 If not, may I have a motion for approval of the minutes 16 of May 27 , August 25 , August 27? 17 COMMISSIONER LORD: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : Second. 19 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : We have a motion and second 20 for approval of the minutes from May 27th, August 25th, 21 August 27 . All in favor? All opposed? Motion carries . 22 (Motion carried unanimously 6 to 0 . ) 23 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Under old business , we have 24 case ZCA-92-004 , a proposed amendment to zoning code section 25 13 11, Sign Code , Calculation of Sign Area, submitted by PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 4 1 the City of Las Cruces . May I have a motion to consider 2 case ZCA-92-004? 3 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: I move we consider 4 that case . Do I have a second? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : Second. 6 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : We have a second to consider 7 ZCA-92-004 . 8 COMMISSIONER DAW: Mr. Chairman, before 9 that' s considered, I wonder if the items on the list which 10 are not going to be considered, such as - - don' t we have to 11 take any official action like on a request to postpone , or 12 does that just automatically occur? 13 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : The process has been that we 14 take official action on requests for postponements for a 15 specific time in the future . 16 COMMISSIONER DAW: Because I think there are 17 people here waiting that would go if they knew that they 18 weren' t going to be considered. And I think we have two 19 items like that on the agenda. 20 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : What we can do is go ahead 21 and announce which of the items have been requested for 22 continuance . And that' s on case PUD-92-004 and SUP-92-006 . 23 Those two items have been requested to be postponed. If 24 anyone is present in the audience that was going to attend 25 for these items , those items will be postponed. PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 5 1 COMMISSIONER DAW: Mr. Chairman, don' t you 2 need to make that motion and get it passed at this point. 3 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : I am just announcing 4 it--since I have a motion on the floor and that has been 5 seconded--as a matter of convenience to the public . I am 6 just announcing that those items will be postponed in the 7 event someone wishes to leave now. 8 MS . NOLEN: Some of these commission members 9 don' t have their microphones on. Would you ask them to turn 10 them on, or get the microphone closer . 11 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Okay, going to case 12 ZCA-92-004 , Mr . Weir . 13 MR. WEIR: Chairman Perez and commission 14 members, before you is a request to amend the sign code, or 15 Section 13 of the zoning code . And basically, what it is, 16 it' s a clarification of the definition of sign area . What 17 staff is doing is trying to systematically go through the 18 sign code and pick out areas that need clarification. The 19 first item that we bring before you is the sign code area. 20 The Planning and Zoning Commission reviewed this 21 definition at their work session on October 14 , and you see 22 here the proposed wording has been amended to include the 23 language from that meeting. And staff would recommend 24 approval of this amendment. 25 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Thank you, Mr . Weir . At PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 6 1 this point in time, we will open it to public participation. 2 Anyone in the audience wish to address case ZCA-92-004? 3 Going once, twice . We will close it and go on to 4 commissioner input. 5 Anyone on the Commission wish to make any input on case 6 ZCA-92-004? 7 In that case , we will go on to - - if there is no other 8 discussion, we will go on to the vote . 9 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: I would move that the 10 sign zoning code amendment that is proposed by the staff be 11 approved as submitted. 12 COMMISSIONER DAW: Second. 13 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Any discussion? 14 Then I ' ll call the roll . 15 COMMISSIONER LORD: Aye . 16 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Aye . 17 COMMISSIONER DAW: Aye . 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : Aye. 19 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Aye . 20 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : And the chair votes aye. 21 The motion carries . 22 ( The motion carried 6 to 0 . ) 23 Now, may I have a motion to consider case PUD-92-004? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : So moved. 25 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : The applicant has requested PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 7 1 that we postpone at this point in time . May I have a motoin 2 to postpone until a specific date? 3 COMMISSIONER DAW: I would move that it be 4 postponed until the next public meeting. 5 COMMISSIONER LINARD: I second. 6 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Any discussion? All in 7 favor . It' s unanimous . 8 ( The motion carried 6 to 0 . ) 9 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : The next case is SUP-92-006 . 10 May I have a motion to consider SUP-92-006? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER LORD: Second. 13 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : We have a request to 14 postpone . May I have motion to postpone until the next 15 public meeting? 16 COMMISSIONER DAW: I would so move . 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : Second. 18 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Discussion? All in favor? 19 All opposed. 20 (Motion carried 6 to 0 . ) 21 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : The next item is case 22 PUD-92-005, a request for an amendment to the master PUD 23 site plan for Cheyenne Park of High Range Planned Community 24 Development, which constitutes all of Planning Parcel 21 25 approved January 23 , 1990 . The amendment will directly PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 8 1 effect only the proposed Cheyenne Park Unit No. 2 . The 2 proposed amendment is to increase the total number of lots 3 for Cheyenne Park from 42 lots to 43 . The east of 4 Roadrunner Parkway, off of Cheyenne Drive ( approximately) at 5 the point where the pavement currently ends at the most 6 easterly portion of Cheyenne Drive . Submitted by Florence 7 Muller, the property owner . 8 Is the applicant or their representative present? 9 MR. SCANLON. Yes, Mr . Chairman. 10 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Would you care to make a 11 presentation at this time? 12 MR. SCANLON: Sure, I ' ll make a brief 13 presentation. If I could move over here to the graphic . 14 For the record, my name is Ted Scanlon, and I am 15 president of Scanlon and White, Incorporated. The original 16 site plan for Cheyenne Park had - - 17 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : I am sorry, Mr Scanlon, 18 point of order on my part. 19 May I have a motion to consider PUD-92-005? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER LORD: Second. 22 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Okay, now we are legal . 23 MR. SCANLON: In the original site plan for 24 Cheyenne Park , there was an area along this row of lots that 25 had originally zoned four 100-foot lots And this request PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 9 1 is to change the four 100-foot lots to five 80-foot lots, 2 increasing the total of number of lots within that 3 particular planning element by one lot. The 80-foot lots 4 are still well below the maximums mandated by the PUD. And 5 for this planning parcel 21 , it' s just a matter of - - it 6 was thought originally that there may be a market for four 7 or five larger lots within this subdivision--the rest of the 8 lots are all typically 80 feet or so--but it' s been 9 determined now, in today' s market, that the 80-foot lots 10 would be better products than the 100-foot lots. 11 I would be happy to answer any questions . 12 CHAIRMAN PEEZ : Thank you, Mr . Scanlon. 13 Mr . Weir . 14 MR. WEIR: Chairman Perez, commissioners, as 15 Mr . Scanlon stated, basically it' s an amendment to the site 16 plan approved by the Planning and Zoning Commission for 17 Cheyenne Park to add an additional lot. The amendment meets 18 the densities of the master plan for the High Range area, 19 and this particular planning area. In density, basically, 20 it meets the master plan. It meets the zoning requirements 21 for the PUD site plan. The proposal is compatible with the 22 existing residential development in High Range , and the 23 Cheyenne Park site. 24 The amendment will not create any hazardous traffic 25 condition or be harmful to the welfare of the surrounding PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 10 1 neighborhood. And the amendment is in conformance with the 2 comprehensive plan. So staff recommends approval for 3 Cheyenne Park . 4 Anyone in the audience wish to address case PUD-92-005? 5 Going once, twice . We will close it to public 6 participation. And on to commissioner input . Anyone on the 7 Commission wish to make any comment regarding case PUD 8 92-005? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : I have a question. 10 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Certainly, commissioner. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : I notice under the 12 chief engineer' s comments it says a revised grading plan 13 would be required. Is that something we need, or is it done 14 at some other point? 15 MR. WEIR: Commissioner Willis, that process 16 takes place when the subdivision is requested. Currently, 17 the applicant has submitted a revised final plat that 18 probably, in the next couple of months, will be before you 19 for approval . Once that approval is granted, then they take 20 it for construction drawing approval . And as part of that 21 approval , they will include a grading plan and drainage plan 22 for that area. But that approval is given at a staff level . 23 COMMISSIONER LORD: What' s the similarity 24 between this one and the one we have seen before that 25 required a drainage plan that hadn' t been - - PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27, 1992 11 1 MR. WEIR: Are you talking about the Country 2 Club Heights? 3 That was a recommendation for initial approval of their 4 site plan to allow the development . And the Planning and 5 Zoning Commission has it within their power to request a 6 drainage report with that approval . This, this evening, is 7 an amendment, so it' s already received approval at one time . 8 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Any other comments? 9 Okay, may I have a motion to approve or deny case 10 PUD-92-005 . 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : I move that we approve 12 case 92-005 . 13 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Second. 14 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Discussion? Then we will 15 move on to the vote . 16 COMMISSIONER LORD: Aye . 17 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Aye . 18 COMMISSIONER DAW: Aye 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : Aye 20 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Aye 21 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Aye . Motion carries . 22 ( The motion carried 6 to 0 . ) 23 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : The next case is ZCA-92-006 . 24 It is a proposed amendment to the Las Cruces Zoning Code , 25 Article IX, Parking Requirements, Section 9 . 2E, Schools, PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 12 1 Churches , Community Centers and Hospitals . In general , the 2 proposed amendment is a change to mandate the slope of 3 parking spaces for nursing homes , residential care 4 facilities and similar uses submitted by the City of Las 5 Cruces . 6 May I have a motion to consider case ZCA-92-006? 7 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: I move that we 8 consider this case , please . 9 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Do we have a second? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : Second. 11 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : We have a second to consider 12 case ZCA-92-006 . Mr . Weir . 13 MR. WIER: Chairman Perez , commission 14 members , this is a request for an amendment to Section 9 . 2 E 15 4 . Basically, what we would be doing is separating nursing 16 homes from hospitals and creating another category for the 17 parking requirements for nursing homes, residential care 18 facilities and similar uses . 19 The amendment entails allowing one space for each two 20 beds . In addition, one space for each employee on a maximum 21 shift. And this is where the major change comes with the 22 amendment, a parking space adequate to load and unload 23 residents that is close to the entrance of the building with 24 a slope that shall not exceed one percent in any direction. 25 This report has been reviewed by the engineering PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 13 1 department who possesses the staff expertise on the design 2 of parking areas , et cetera, and they do not see any 3 problems with this amendment to the zoning code . Therefore, 4 staff recommends approval of this amendment. 5 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Thank you, Mr . Weir . 6 Anybody in the audience wish to address case ZCA-92-006? 7 Please state your name you for the record. 8 MS . NOLEN: For the record, commissioners, I 9 am Lewcille Nolen. I am the one that came forward with the 10 original proposal to the Council . My concern was caused by 11 my involvement with a particular person who was in a 12 residential care facility. Before then, I did not realize 13 what the situation could entail . I see it totally different 14 from hospitals , because when a person goes in the hospital 15 they are there at that facility until they leave ; so it' s 16 one time in, one time out . And generally, I think they 17 provide parking and unloading facilities which are quite 18 adequate . 19 The facility where we had our friend was a lovely 20 facility, but over a year and a half I came to realize there 21 was a definite problem. And it was because of the inability 22 of some of the residents to get in and out of cars, vans, 23 whatever , easily. And I decided it was not logical to ask 24 them to have all parking spaces level--although I have had 25 people comment that they feel it should be . But what I am PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 14 1 saying is - - let' s say the table here is a vehicle , and 2 here is the car or the van. And you have someone in a 3 wheelchair that you need to get in or out. I don' t know 4 that the whole parking area needs to be one percent slope . 5 Thinking it over , that' s up to staff or the Commission to 6 decide . But I do feel that it would perhaps need to be four 7 feet in any direction that is level , so that you have the 8 room to get the person in and out, put them into a 9 wheelchair and get them into the entrance without danger of 10 losing them down the side of a hill , or something like that. 11 So that was my real concern. 12 I feel it needs to be marked as a loading-unloading 13 type situation, not a permanent parking space; so, 14 therefore, you only need one area to get them in to unload 15 them and then proceed to another parking space or another 16 area. And I feel like that that' s the least we should ask 17 those types of facilities to provide But I feel it is 18 absolutely necessary that we change the code so that we can 19 make that adjustments and provide safety for those kinds of 20 people, because, ideally, these people are taken out, not 21 necessarily every day, but every day they can, so that they 22 are not confined in that one location all the time . And I 23 feel it' s a necessary item for you to consider . 24 MR. WEIR: I believe it says, parking spaces 25 adequate to load and unload residents shall be located in a PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 15 1 place convenient and adjacent to the entrance of the 2 building, the slope of such parking space shall not exceed 3 one percent in any direction. 4 COMMISSIONER LINARD: This is one of my pet 5 peeves , and it has to do with the hospitals , and to all of 6 the doctor' s offices that are on hillsides--which there are 7 many in this town. From my experience , having broken my 8 foot twice and been on crutches , and my husband' s having 9 lost his legs, and he was on clutches, some of these 10 doctor' s offices are impossible to get to. If you are going 11 to the hospital or therapy, you have to park your car in 12 some remote area, and then you have to climb up a hill to 13 get there . If you are going to take the patient up to the 14 hospital in a wheelchair, it' s all hilly and you have to be 15 ready to grab the wheelchair or watch it roll down the hill . 16 I am not too sure , however, that this shouldn' t include the 17 hospital , too, and doctor ' s offices . There are many, many 18 of them on hills that you can' t get a patient out of a car 19 and get into the front door. 20 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Thank you, Commissioner 21 Linard. 22 COMMISIONER KILLIAN: I commend you, Mr . 23 Chairman, Commissioner Linard, and commend you, too, Ms . 24 Nolen. One thing we need to note is that the ADA, Americans 25 with Disabilities Act, will require this anyway. It' s just PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 16 1 that you are getting a jump on it . And eventually when 2 someone falls or someone loses a wheelchair or something, or 3 it runs away, that first suit will change all of that. So 4 you are just starting the process early. 5 It' s required, now, that a handicapped space, which is 6 basically what this will be, will be required, and that it 7 be basically level , and that it have certain clearances on 8 every side, and that it remain open for those individuals . 9 So that will be happening at every building, not just these 10 buildings you mentioned, but every building will be required 11 to have that. 12 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Thank you, Commissioner . 13 Any other commissioners wish to comment on case 14 ZCA-92-006? 15 COMMISSIONER DAW: In the presentation, the 16 statement was made that it would be nice to come and be able 17 to let someone out and stay there without going from there 18 to somewhere else in the parking lot. If I heard that 19 right; is that right. 20 MS . NOLEN: No, I think there should be 21 perhaps a time limit of just a few minutes to be able to get 22 them out and put them in the thing, and then you go to park . 23 COMMISSIONER DAW: Because this says "for 24 loading and unloading" which means you come there, and then 25 you leave . And I may have misunderstood that. Then I don' t PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 17 1 have any problems . 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : I guess, really, this 3 is more a question for the commissioners about the wording 4 on this . It may not be adequate . If the ADA standard is 5 going to be more specific than just the way this reads--that 6 a parking space shall not exceed one percent in any 7 direction. It doesn' t say anything about the area around 8 it. If someone is getting out, it would be four feet or 9 whatever is required. I was wondering, shouldn't what we 10 have reflect what the ADA says? 11 COMMISIONER KILLIAN: I think if it doesn' t, 12 it will eventually. The one-percent grading requirement, or 13 one inch rise in one foot, or one foot in twelve feet, 14 that' s the requirement for the ramp. But then there is a 15 grading required for parking areas , wheelchair resting 16 areas, like at landing areas , where you are going up the 17 ramp and you land, and is that required? And I think 18 probably what we might have wanted to do, Mr. Weir, is 19 search the ADA or - - New Mexico' s already approved it, and 20 it' s made into law, so we might want to take a look at the 21 ADA, and we will be - - I am sorry, I took your space . 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : You were supposed to. 23 COMMISSIOER KILLIAN: What you have indicated 24 here may be at a nursing home or hospital , and most 25 hospitals have this loading and unloading requirement. You PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 18 1 can' t be there but a short-time . At a nursing home, I am 2 not sure that is true . 3 MR. WEIR: It is not true . 4 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Maybe we should add 5 that, that there be an area that is specifically for loading 6 and unloading. 7 Now, in a handicapped space, you have a symbol you can 8 park and stay there , too. And I think we want that even the 9 handicapped individual will have to move out of that space . 10 I think that would be a good addition. 11 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Mr . Chairman, 12 Commissioner Killian, I have a question. I think there could 13 also be a designated size, areawise, how many feet on each 14 side of the biggest car that you would expect to park 15 somewhere , because you can' t get the wheelchair into that 16 space . It' s like a builder who thinks you should be able to 17get a wheelchair in a bathroom with a two-foot door . So 18 that should be addressed, too, the size. 19 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: If I may address it to 20 you, Ms . Linard, there is a space called a van space. I 21 think you are familiar with that, too, which is a larger 22 space . That' s the one we are talking about, usually. They 23 put two of those together, two regular handicapped spaces to 24 make a van space . So I think that you are saying that we 25 need here is a van space . PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 19 1 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Yes . 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : And that would be 3 covered, then, by any sloped area around a handicapped 4 space . I think what she was getting at is that that 5 one-percent slope needs to apply in an adequate area around 6 the space as well , and you are saying that would do it 7 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: I am a little bit 8 vague about the one percent, and what it says . My memory is 9 not very good on that. I think it would be simple enough to 10 say that in the wording, to add one-percent slope . 11 MR. WEIR: Chairman Perez , commission 12 members, what you are saying is that the requirements of the 13 Americans with Disabilities Act will be met or incorporated, 14 that type of language, into this amendment. That way any 15 requirement of the Americans with Disabilities Act will also 16 be met. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : In addition to a 18 loading and unloading zone . 19 MR. WEIR: Or the one-percent slope . 20 COMMISSIONER LORD: If the Americans with 21 Disabilities Act going to be more strict that what we are 22 dealing with, mightn' t we just go with a loading and 23 unloading zone and go with the ADA language? 24 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Do you then want to consider 25 the amendment now, or would you like to consider a PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 20 1 postponement until the item can be brought back to us with 2 specific language? 3 COMMISSIONER DAW: I would just as soon as go 4 ahead. We can always change it later . 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : So what we are saying 6 is wording that would say we are going to comply with the 7 ADA standards in addition to providing loading and unloading 8 zones; is that what you are saying? 9 COMMISSIONER LORD: The proposed amendment 10 would be proposed by the staff with the addition of the 11 wording that would be appropriate to comply with the ADA 12 requirements . 13 MR. WEIR: Yeah, I would assume that you 14 would want to hammer out that specific language before you 15 make your recommendations on to the City Council for this 16 amendment. 17 COMMISSIONER LINARD: I think if David is 18 aware of what all we have discussed here and can incorporate 19 it, especially with doctors and health-care 20 facilities--because it' s hard to take an old lady, 90 years 21 old in a wheelchair to the lab when it is on top of the 22 hill , and you have to park on top of another hill - - you 23 haven' t had a thrill until you have been on crutches on a 24 little stoop in front of the doctor' s office and one of his 25 employees comes barreling out a door with no windows in it PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 21 1 and knocks you off balance and you wonder how far down that 2 hill you are going to go when you fall off the stoop. So it 3 should be for everything. 4 I believe Ms . Nolen had some comments she wanted to 5 make , also. 6 MS . NOLEN: I just wanted to suggest that you 7 include the wording "marked" so that this will not be 8 considered a parking area, and it will be open for someone 9 when they are loading and unloading. I don' t know how long 10 it should be . Maybe a minimum of five minutes, but it 11 either needs a sign which will not get in the way of things 12 or however you best see fit between you and the staff. But 13 I think in order to avoid confusion it' s a good idea to have 14 it clearly marked that that is for loading and unloading of 15 residents, not for parking. 16 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Does anyone on the 17 Commission wish to make specific wording for the amendment 18 to ZCA-92-006? 19 COMMISIONER KILLIAN: I am trying to formulate 20 some thoughts. 21 MR. WEIR: Chairman Perez, commission 22 members, I would like to offer some language , if you 23 wouldn' t mind. 24 It would be 9 . 2E - - it would be section 9 . 2E, nursing 25 homes and residential care facilities and similar uses . One PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 22 1 space for each two beds , in addition to one space for each 2 employee on the maximum shift , and a space adequate to load 3 and unload residents be located conveniently adjacent to the 4 entrance , not too far from the building, and the slope of 5 such loading and unloading space shall not exceed one 6 percent in any direction, and meet all related ADA 7 requirements . 8 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Okay, is that language 9 acceptable to the Commission? 10 COMMISIONER KILLIAN: I think that covers 11 everything we have said. 12 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Excuse me . All of 13 these people are not residents. Sometimes a little old lady 14 goes to visit her little old husband there in the nursing 15 home and somebody has to take her in a wheelchair and get 16 her out of the car . 17 MR WEIR Residents and visitors , thank you 18 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Good point, you had. Okay, 19 can we have a motion to approve the amendment to the 20 proposed amendment as stated by city staff? 21 COMMISIONER KILLIAN: I move we accept this 22 amendment concerning accessible parking for a delivery or 23 loading/unloading area for all of these items and buildings 24 as mentioned. Did I make that long enough? 25 Do we have a second? PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 23 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIS: I second. 2 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Discussion. 3 COMMISSIONER DAW: I would like to have it 4 reread. 5 MR. WEIR: Commission members, item five 6 would read, nursing homes, residential care facilities , or 7 similar uses . One space for each two beds in addition to 8 one space for each employee on the maximum shift, and a 9 marked space adequate to load/unload residents and visitors 10 adjacent to the building that shall be located conveniently 11 to the entrance of the building. The slope of such loading 12 and unloading space shall not exceed one percent in any 13 direction and meet all related ADA requirements . 14 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: You had mentioned 15 something about a time frame . 16 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : What you are talking about 17 is , for example , if a van would come up to this van space 18 unload the individual , then after that individual shall be 19 taken in to the facility come back and remove the vehicle to 20 another parking area and leave that space open for somebody 21 else? 22 MS . NOLEN: Correct. What happened in the 23 case that I was involved with, many times I was the person 24 who drove the vehicle there . And I would have to unload her 25 and put her into the wheelchair , or whatever, and take her PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 24 1 into the facility and come back and move the car , or that 2 would have been the procedure had there been such a 3 designated space . You don' t always have someone come out 4 and take the person and walk them in or get them in, so you 5 have to have a little leeway of time : 6 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : What' s the Commission' s 7 feelings? 8 COMMISIONER KILLIAN: I think 15 minutes 9 maximum. 10 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Any other comments on that 11 requirement? We could probably word it, what, parking 12 allowed 15 minutes for unloading, or something like that? 13 MR. WEIR: The maximum time allowed in these 14 loading and unloading parking spaces will be 15 minutes , or 15 a 15-minute time limit for parking, loading, and unloading 16 spaces . You could word it somehow like that. 17 COMMISSIONER LORD• Are we going to require 18 signage to that effect? 19 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : I would think so. 20 COMMISSIONER LORD: That is a great idea, but 21 how is it really going to happen? 22 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Well , I think pretty much 23 the way the handicapped signs evolved. Now, it used to be 24 when the signs first came out and - - that everybody would 25 park in those areas regardless But as time went on, a PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 25 1 certain courtesy evolved. 2 COMMISSIONER LINARD• You would be surprised 3 what a $50 to $100 fine will do to you. 4 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : That will help, too, but I 5 think it' s a matter of an evolvement of courtesy that will 6 take care of that. 7 COMMISSOINER KILLIAN: If it' s marked as 8 handicapped, they will be allowed to load and unload in that 9 area if it' s marked as handicapped. They can be fined for 10 violating that signage . So it would be covered. 11 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Without going through all 12 the formalities , do you want to include that in your 13 amendment? 14 COMMISIONER KILLIAN: If it has ADA marked on 15 it, that should cover that. 16 Don' t we have a law in Las Cruces in regard to 17 handicapped parking spaces, you can be fined and ticketed 18 for parking in them? 19 MR. WEIR: Just sitting there I came up with 20 possible language to address these, by adding another 21 sentence . Loading and unloading parking spaces shall be 22 designated and shall have a maximum parking period of 15 23 minutes . 24 COMMISSIONER DAW: I am a little worried 25 about confusing this item with where handicapped people PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 26 1 normally park . If they are handicapped and have a license 2 plate on their car, they can park in a handicapped zone . 3 And I see people who may be in poor health or frail health, 4 but don' t fall into the normal designation of handicapped 5 and don' t have a sticker on their license plate . And I 6 think this is to accommodate those people , too. So I hope 7 we won' t sort of overlap handicapped with those particular 8 areas, but rather leave it for the loading and unloading of 9 the residents or the visitors without stirring in the 10 handicapped directly. Thank you. 11 MS . NOLEN: I keep interrupting. May I make 12 another brief comment? 13 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Certainly. 14 MS . NOLEN: I feel that perhaps a small sign. 15 This is going to be near the entrance, that' s what the thing 16 has stated, "convenient to the entrance . " A small sign that 17 is adjacent to the sidewalk where they will get out that 18 will say "no parking, loading and unloading of residents and 19 visitors only. " That way you don' t get your commercial 20 vehicles that come up and want to load and unload in that 21 space . But I think a small sign, and I am sure you can come 22 up with the dimensions , it doesn' t have to be large . It can 23 be on a column, if there is one close by, or something 24 clearly visible , which says "no parking, unloading and 25 loading of residents and visitors only. " PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 27 1 MR. WEIR: That' s a good suggestion. 2 COMMISSIONER LORD: Now, what are we going to 3 do? Are we going to grandfather existing facilities, or are 4 we going to require existing facilities to go in and make 5 improvements, or what are we going to do? Or is ADA going 6 to force people to go in and force people to make 7 improvements? That' s going to happen, and are we are going 8 to additionally require an unloading and loading space? How 9 is this thing really going to happen? 10 MR. WEIR: There is little distinction. ADA, 11 legal counsel has told me , is a self-enforcing legislation 12 in that there are certain requirements based on employees 13 within a building. And if you don' t bring your parking 14 facilities, your doors , and the other items specified in ADA 15 up to requirement, then you are open to litigation and being 16 sued. And in that way, it' s a self-enforcing amendment. 17 What you are doing by putting it into our code is making it 18 a criminal offense rather than a civil offense . 19 COMMISIONER KILLIAN: You just made the 20 comment I didn' t want to make . ADA is not something where 21 there will be a policeman come out and tell you you haven' t 22 brought your building up to requirements . But the first 23 litigation will be the beginning. And when that happens, 24 then it' s katy-bar-the-door, everyone will be doing it. 25 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : No further discussions . PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 28 1 If there is no discussion, may I have a motion to - - 2 well , I will call the question, 3 COMMISSIONER LORD: Aye . 4 COMMISIONER KILLIAN: Aye. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : Aye 6 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Aye . 7 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : And the chair votes aye . 8 ( The motion carried 5 to 0 . Commissioner Daw 9 had left the room at the time of the vote . ) 10 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Motion carries on that 11 issue, and now we go onto the election of officers . 12 At this point in time we have three positions that are 13 open for election that of chairman or chairperson, vice 14 chairperson and secretary. Do we have any nominations for 15 the position of chairperson? 16 COMMISIONER KILLIAN: I would like to 17 nominate the present chairman, Mr . Eddie Perez , as president 18 or chairman. And do we want to do this individually one at 19 the time or make a motion for all three at once? 20 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : The way that that would be 21 done would be , if the people were nominated and accepted the 22 position and then a motion be made that everyone would be 23 elected by acclamation, so we may want to go individually. 24 We have a nomination of Eddie Perez for chairperson. 25 Do we have any other nominations? Do we have any other PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 29 1 nominations? If not, at this point then, we will close 2 nominations for chairperson and go on to the vote . 3 Do we want, since there is no other nomination for 4 chairperson, do we want to make this a closed or open 5 ballot? That' s the choice of the Commission? 6 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Mr . Chairman, I would 7 like to point out to the three or four new members of the 8 Commission that as acting chair you have served as acting 9 chair for one year, and prior to that you were vice chair, I 10 don' t know how long. 11 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : One year . 12 COMMISSIONER LINARD: The ordinances which 13 appoint us and designate our duties says that each year we 14 elect officers . And I don' t know if that means the same one 15 is elected every year , year after year . It seems to me it 16 should be passed around. But then I am just a minority of 17 one . Since you are the only one who is nominated, I think 18 all you can do is ask that you be elected by acclamation, 19 although I am not making that motion. 20 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Okay, it' s been suggested 21 that the election be motioned to be elected by acclamation. 22 COMMISSIONER LINARD: I said I was not making 23 that motion. 24 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : No, I said it was suggested. 25 It was suggested. In any case , if we wish - - PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 30 1 COMMISSIONER DAW: I wonder if it wouldn' t be 2 just a good practice, in general , to handle the ballot as a 3 secret ballot. Just in general . We really don' t need it in 4 this case, it looks like ; but it looks like it would just be 5 well to have that as a standard practice so we don' t have to 6 decide it each time. I would suggest that. 7 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : That would be fine . 8 So in this particular case, do you want to handle it as 9 a ballot or just simply vote on it openly? I am just trying 10 to get this for the record. 11 COMMISSIONER DAW: I would make it as a 12 motion. I move that we handle our elections by ballot. 13 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Okay. We have a motion to 14 conduct the elections by ballot. Do I have a second? 15 COMMISIONER KILLIAN: I second that motion. 16 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Discussion? 17 All in favor? 18 ( The motion passed 6 to 0 . ) 19 (The ballots were cast for president and 20 collected and counted by Mr. Weir. ) 21 MR. WEIR: Chairman Perez , commission member 22 Perez was elected Chairman of the Planning and Zoning 23 Commission by a vote of 5 to 1 . 24 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Thank you, Mr . Weir . 25 At this point in time , we will go on to the election PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27, 1992 31 1 and nomination for vice-chairperson. 2 Any nominations for the position of vice chairperson? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : I would like to 4 nominate Beatriz . Can we do that without her here? Then I 5 just did. 6 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : The nomination has been made 7 for Beatriz Ferreira for the position of vice chair . Any 8 other nominations? Any other nominations? The third time, 9 any other nominations? 10 If not we will close that portion to nominations and go 11 on to the balloting. 12 ( The ballots were cast and Mr . Weir collected 13 and counted the ballots . ) 14 MR. WEIR: Chairman Perez and commission 15 members, Beatriz Ferreira was elected vice chair by a vote 16 of 5 to 1 . 17 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Thank you, Mr . Weir . 18 The next position is for secretary. Do we have any, 19 nominations for the position of secretary? 20 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: I would like to 21 nominate Commissioner Sharlyn Linard. 22 COMMISSIONER LINARD: That' s very kind of 23 you, and I appreciate your thoughtfulness . I like Lyndon 24 Johnson, however, am not a candidate nor would I serve if I 25 were elected. PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 32 1 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Thank you, Commissioner 2 Linard. Any other nominations for secretary? 3 COMMISIONER KILLIAN: I would then change my 4 nomination to Ms . Kay Willis . 5 CHAIRMAN PEREZ • We have a nominee for 6 secretary, Commissioner Kay Willis . Any other nominations? 7 Any other nominations? Any other nominations? 8 If not, we will close this portion to nominees and go 9 on to the balloting. 10 (The ballots were cast and Mr. weir collected 11 and counted the ballots . ) 12 MR. WEIR: Commissioners , the vote for 13 Commissioner Willis as secretary is achieved by a vote of 5 14 to 1 . 15 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Thank you, Mr . Weir . 16 COMMISSIONER DAW: Mr . Chairman, could I ask 17 to have clarified the rules on attendance and when one no 18 longer can continue to serve because of lack of attendance? 19 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Certainly. Mr . Weir or Mr. 20 Simms? 21 MR. WEIR: I believe Mr . Simms would be 22 better able to answer that one . 23 MR. SIMMS : I am looking at the board 24 ordinance . It' s ordinance number 1267 . It says that on 25 attendance and removal , attendance is required at all Board PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 33 1 meetings--that' s under section 2-178 , subsection 3 , 2 paragraph A - - paragraph B, says, "If a member appointed by 3 City Council fails to attend 75 percent of the meetings , 4 including work sessions , in any twelve-month period, April 1 5 through March 31 , or is absent from three consecutive 6 meetings his or her membership will be terminated 7 automatically by the effective board. " 8 And C says, "If a Board member vacates office by 9 non-attendance of official meetings, the Board chair shall 10 give written notice to the City Council . " It then proceeds 11 to outline the process for removal , and also for an appeal 12 by that person. 13 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : When you speak to the three 14 consecutive meetings, is that public meetings , or does that 15 includes work sessions? 16 MR. SIMMS : It says it should include work 17 sessions . It was , if I recall correctly from legislative 18 history, added in there to include work sessions as part of 19 the meetings. So let' s say, for example, you attended a 20 work session, then had a public meeting, then had a work 21 session, if you miss all three of those, that combination, 22 then, would be three consecutive meetings and it provides 23 for automatic termination. 24 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Mr . Chair? 25 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Commissioner Linard. PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 34 1 COMMISSIONER LINARD: This is the third 2 consecutive meeting that Beatriz has missed, and farther 3 back from that I don' t recall . But there were many more . 4 COMMISSIONER LORD: Who keeps that record? 5 MR. WEIR: It' s just attendance at work 6 sessions . Planning staff keeps that. 7 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : I think we probably need to, 8 beings that we are a new commission, we probably need to 9 formally inform all the commissioners, if you would, by 10 sending a letter outlining conditions for suspension from 11 being on the Commission. And that if anyone is in jeapordy, 12 that we try and bring ourselves into compliance . 13 COMMISSIONER LORD: A warning would be , at 14 certain points, would be really well received by many of us. 15 COMMISSIONER DAW: It sounds like the warning 16 maybe should have been sent a month or two months ago . 17 MS . NOLEN: Mr . Chairman, may I make the 18 comment as the Chairman of the Board of Adjustment? 19 This situation came up last year, and I was told that when 20 you pass that three meetings, or whatever it is, it' s too 21 late to send a warning, they are off. And only because this 22 ordinance was being put together, and because of the 23 re-election and some were new appointees, were some members 24 allowed to stay. 25 We got together with staff and legal , and they said PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 35 1 when that time occurs they are automatically off, and the 2 chairman must write the letter to City Council informing 3 them. And my position as Chairman of the Board of 4 Adjustment was that we all got copies of the changes in the 5 ordinance and what was required. So I think, possibly, all 6 of you received that information, also. 7 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : That' s right . And we 8 addressed that particular situation last year . And that' s 9 why I asked for a clarification from Mr . Simms, because last 10 year, what had been told to us was that it was three public 11 meetings , not including the work sessions, right? But the 12 ordinances approved by the Council included work sessions 13 and public hearings? 14 MR. SIMMS : That' s true . Unfortunately, I 15 did most of the writing on these ordinances, and I remember 16 the person who asked specifically for work sessions to be 17 added in. And there was a fight over that . And there was a 18 discussion over that. And they added it in because they 19 wanted the language that attendance is required at all Board 20 meetings . When this was published as law, it was noticed. 21 And also, when a person was appointed, there should be 22 language to the effect that you understand or you know or 23 you are aware of this ordinance under which you have been 24 appointed. And when it says "automatic termination, " it 25 means automatic, there is no shifting gears . There is no PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 36 1 other warning or notice, that was it. 2 Let me read on. It' s not supposed to be so mercenary. 3 It' s says under C - - 4 COMMISSIONER DAW: Mr . Chairman, could I ask 5 to have stated again where he is reading from, and if he 6 knows whether we have been furnished a copy or not, so we 7 can follow? 8 MR. SIMMS : This is ordinance 1267 . It' s 9 called, in short, the Board Ordinances . I think everybody 10 has a copy of it, but I can make more . 11 MR. WEIR: Commissioner Daw, that ordinance 12 was provided to you at the October 14 work session. 13 COMMISSIONER DAW: 1267? 14 MR. SIMMS : And it on page six at the bottom 15 of the page . You will see a paragraph C, in parentheses . 16 But that whole section on attendance and removal is the area 17 that I am talking about. 18 The first one, A, says "Attendance is required at all 19 board meetings . " and then B says, "Fails to attend 75 20 percent of the meetings"--and it specifically included work 21 sessions--"in any twelve-month period"--and it continues 22 on--"or is absent from three consecutive meetings. " And 23 what I recall from the interpretation of that is, that it 24 meant meetings period. Work sessions , public work sessions, 25 public sessions, or special sessions . If you call a special PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 37 1 meeting, it says "terminated automatically by the effective 2 board. " And this applies to all the boards , the Board of 3 Adjustment or the Convention and Visitors, they would still 4 have to do the same thing. First, somebody would have to 5 point it out and raise it . 6 Then C says, "If a Board member vacates the Board by 7 non-attendance , the Board chair shall give written notice to 8 the City Council and then a replacement member shall be 9 appointed within 30 days . " 10 If the Board member is the Board chair, the removal 11 process shall be conducted by the vice-chairman, or if the 12 vice-chairman is unable to participate , by any other Board 13 member . The Board member may appeal personally or in 14 writing or both to the City Council within 30 days of 15 receiving written notice of removal . That' s the appeal 16 process . Once the chair gives notice to the City Council 17 that they have got a vacancy, and it can' t continue to 18 operate like that. The idea was to have someone on the 19 Board to make sure you always reach quorum. We had problems 20 with that before, and this is how they addressed it. And 21 that person can say, I haven' t been able to do this for 22 whatever reason. And then the City Council can simply 23 respond, all right, we understand. And then they could 24 reappoint that person to the Board if they thought it was 25 necessary to do so, based on their reasons for not being PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 38 1 present. 2 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Mr . Chair , I would like 3 to ask the attorney a question How come we have, or not 4 since last December, operated with an acting chairman, and 5 had no elected vice-chairman, and I am not sure if Beatriz 6 was the secretary or Ed Bailey. 7 MR. SIMMS : The reason for that is that this 8 ordinance became effective April of 192 . And there is a 9 section in here--and I call it a gap filler--that all 10 persons will continue to serve in the same capacity or, at 11 least, they will continue to serve on the Board until 12 appointments were made . There was a long transition period 13 for the City Council to make appointments so all persons 14 that were in acting positions continued in them. And that' s 15 the only explanation, it was transitional . But at this 16 point, we are out of transition, and we should be electing 17 chairs and officers . And these rules are in full effect 18 COMMISSIONER LINARD: But we were not under 19 any ordinances to elect those officers last December when a 20 change was forthcoming by the resignation of the chair? 21 MR. SIMMS : Nobody raised it. 22 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Oh, it' s been raised. 23 Believe me, it' s been raised. 24 MR. SIMMS : All the rules that were in effect 25 before April would have continued in effect until April of PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 39 1 192 . If someone was appointed as acting all they have to do 2 is give notice, let them know that election had been done 3 then there could have been election. But at this point, 4 it' s moot. If anybody wants , I can run off a copy of that 5 section for you so you can look at it. 6 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Okay, so then that puts us 7 with a very distasteful situation that we have to deal with. 8 And if that is what the rules are, and if we are going to be 9 made to adhere to the letter of the law, then Mr . .Weir would 10 you please draft the letter? 11 MR. WEIR: Yes . I ' ll see that it is 12 forwarded to the Commission. We will also cc a copy to 13 Beatriz . 14 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Thank you, Mr . Weir . 15 Okay, the next item on the agenda is the selection of a 16 member to the Metropolitan Planning Organization. 17 MR. WEIR. Mr . Chairman, point of order . You 18 have elected a member to a position that you are just 19 notifying her is no longer a part of the Commission. I 20 think you are going to have to redo part of the election 21 process . 22 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Is that the case, or has she 23 been elected and has she been removed? 24 MR. SIMMS : Interesting problem. During the 25 election when she was nominated, I think that would have PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 40 1 been the proper time to raise it and say she would not be a 2 candidate for that reason. However, you did vote , and she 3 was elected. She has that position. It was raised after 4 the election. So you can also give her notice that she is 5 vice-chairman, but that because the rule was raised, she is 6 automatically terminated. 7 COMMISSIONER LORD: So shall we vote again, 8 or what - - 9 MR. SIMMS : One way of getting out of it, the 10 parlimentary way, would be to reconsider it. That would be 11 the easiest way. But you have voted on it, and she does 12 have the position, because you didn' t raise it until after 13 the fact. 14 COMMISSIONER DAW: There may be, in a sense, 15 an easier path to take than that. And that is , if the 16 person is notified that they are terminated, they can then 17 appeal to the City Council . And if they are serious about 18 staying on the Board, the City Council might allow them to 19 stay. Then the election would be just fine . But if the 20 person chose not to appeal , the position would be vacant. 21 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : I think that' s a very valid 22 way of approaching it. 23 I was leaning in that direction. I think that would 24 probably be the least painful of the whole situation. And 25 unfortunately, we have to, all of us , at one time or PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 41 1 another, because of our position - - first of all , it' s 2 volunteer . It' s a volunteer situation. We may find 3 ourselves at times having to put more time in to our private 4 lives as far as business is concerned and our profession, 5 and that may not allow us to perform in our appointed 6 positions as well as we would like to, and we wind up in 7 these situations . 8 And certainly I know that individuals that have served 9 on this commission in the past, including Ms . Ferriera, have 10 been dedicated individuals . And they have been very 11 valuable individuals . It' s unfortunate that we sometimes 12 find ourselves in the position that we can' t always give as 13 much of ourselves as we possibly can. 14 One of the things that the Council had problems with is 15 trying to find people to serve on these appointed positions, 16 and especially since the issue came about that they wanted 17 people coming out of the same district as their Council 18 person who appointed them. So I hope that we don' t find 19 ourselves in a position that we will be hard pressed to find 20 people to serve on these boards. 21 Your suggestion is well taken, Commissioner Daw. If 22 the Commission wishes to put that in the form of a motion 23 for consideration to take action in that direction, the 24 chair will consider it. 25 COMMISSIONER DAW: I don' t believe that it PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 42 1 needs a motion. I may be in error on that, but if the 2 letter is sent, then it is up to her to make the appeal , and 3 that we just leave it open. If she really has the time to 4 serve and wishes to serve . 5 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Okay, then we will just put 6 it in the form of a consensus of the Commission to approach 7 it in that manner . 8 MS . NOLEN: Mr. Chairman, may I speak to that 9 briefly. Two points . You made this election not knowing 10 that she was automatically already off the Board. In my 11 opinion--I may be way off--the motion to reconsider is the 12 proper one . Whatever you all do about this one is one 13 thing. When this came before City Council for discussion, I 14 felt it was too restrictive . I think that' s too much to 15 ask, particularly of a commission such as yours that meets 16 so often, not only in work sessions but in hearings . What I 17 would like to suggest is maybe ya' ll could consider going to 18 the Council with a proposed amendment that would include two 19 public hearings and one work session, or three hearings . I 20 think to require a person to be at every work session is 21 really unrealistic and far too demanding. But you do want 22 to have as many there as you can. I think that part of it 23 is important, too. That would be my suggestion. Maybe you 24 could propose an amendment to that effect, because my kind 25 of board it doesn' t effect so severely as one such as yours PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27, 1992 43 1 that' s meets so often in work sessions . You are here all 2 the time . 3 COMMISSIONER LORD: We have gone through a 4 rigorous work session schedule , haven' t we . And it looks 5 like it' s going to get tough for a lot of us, every week, 6 three out of four weeks in a month, 7 COMMISSIONER LINARD: We have been doing that 8 for the past two years . 9 COMMISSIONER LORD: Not since I have been on 10 been on the Board. 11 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : We have been, Commissioner 12 Linard. But unfortunately, like I said, most of us have 13 professions or jobs that we have to go to. Not all of us 14 have time, sometimes to meet the rigorous work session 15 schedules that we have had in the past. I have found it 16 often difficult to attend the work sessions and the schedule 17 that we had in the past . And the thing that one has to 18 consider is that we are dealing with professional people, 19 and as such it kind of puts a person of a professional 20 stature in a bad light in kicking them off a commission, and 21 that simply because they can' t attend because they have to 22 make a living. 23 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Mr. Chairman, I never 24 made any statement that I thought it was fair . I never made 25 a statement that I thought it was fair that you attend three PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27, 1992 44 1 consecutive meetings , that I am lowly housewife and that I 2 have got all this fun time to run around and do these 3 things, because I do have obligations other than this 4 commission. I think it' s totally unfair to say we have 5 three work sessions and public hearings in one month and you 6 if you miss all of those you are off the Board. I can see 7 where there must be some rules But when you miss two this 8 month and three next month and four the next month, et 9 cetera, then it begins to be a problem. It depends upon the 10 individual and their commitment. And if they don' t have a 11 commitment to serve on this board, regardless of what their 12 profession is, they shouldn' t take the appointment. 13 COMMISSIONER DAW: I am not sure what the 14 rule ought to be . I think that we may have a problem with 15 the rules , but I am not certain of that. 16 But this I am quite certain of, when we have the rules , 17 whatever they are , we ought to abide by them We should not 18 go on month after month after month ignoring the rules which 19 we have . If we don' t like the rules, we ought to change 20 them so that the rules are what we would like them to be. 21 But otherwise, we ought to stick by them, and I thought that 22 was the point that I wanted to make . 23 Furthermore, we are not kicking anyone off the Board. 24 The individual , by not conforming to the rules of the Board, 25 is taking that action themselves . It is one of the reasons PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 45 1 that I really don' t think we need a motion, because the 2 rules apparently are automatic. 3 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : I can understand that . I am 4 just thinking back to the some of the history of the last 5 four or five years where I have been a member of the 6 Commission, where we had another commissioner who was ill . 7 And unfortunately for the community, it was a terminal 8 situation. And she did miss several meetings. And the 9 issue was not raised then. And those are the kinds of 10 things that one has to think about. And so I agree with 11 you, that if the rules are too restrictive we need to change 12 them and abide by them. I agree wholeheartedly with you on 13 that situation. 14 Not to belabor on this particular issue, it was 15 suggested that we send an amendement or consider sending an 16 amendment to the Council to relax the attendance 17 requirements . Mr . Simms, would it be appropriate to send it 18 to the Council along with this letter? 19 MR. SIMMS : Let' s say it wouldn' t be 20 inappropriate . I know it seems like I am weaseling out of 21 that. But they went through this board ordinance with a 22 fine-toothed comb. And they changed language and spelling 23 of words in this section. I remember this section. It got '24 changed at least ten times . And they were adamant about one 25 thing, they were tired of the absences on the boards . And PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 46 1 they didn' t have a device to control it, and this is what 2 they came up with. 3 You might consider it too restrictive, but let that be 4 a caveat to you when you write a letter to them. 5 I would say that you can write a letter, and you can 6 write it as a representative of the Board or individually. 7 And you can say that you think that it' s effects are too 8 restrictive, and you would not be out of order doing so. 9 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : What would the Commission 10 suggest? 11 COMMISSIONER DAW: Mr. Chairman, we might, 12 before we take any percipitous action on this point, in one 13 of our work meetings, like to discuss not just whether we 14 ask the City Council , but whether or not we would like to 15 change our own schedule . I think we are now having three 16 work sessions a month - - 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : Two. 18 COMMISSIONER DAW: Is it two? 19 Two work sessions a month. We might fix a rule so that 20 one of those counts as an attendance at a meeting and the 21 other one doesn't. And then that would alleviate part of the 22 problem of people having to be gone or whatever . I think it 23 would be our rules as to what constitutes the meetings for 24 attendance. But I would like to see it considered a little 25 more carefully, rather than now, on the spur of the moment, PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 47 1 petitioning City Council . 2 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Point well taken. 3 COMMISSIONER LORD: During my short time on 4 the Board, we have been doing work sessions--and correct me 5 if I am wrong--and on an as-needed basis . And there have 6 been times when we have done them every week, with the 7 University Corridor, and things that have been coming down 8 that were really heavy--and there have been times that we 9 can go a month without a work meeting--Kay and I came on at 10 the same time--but I don' t look forward to having a lot of 11 work sessions scheduled to discuss things that are not too 12 terribly important just because we have a meeting scheduled, 13 which could happen to us . 14 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : You have to consider, it' s 15 not only three consecutive meetings but 25 percent of the 16 meetings that are failed to be attended in a year' s time . 17 And that can very easily happen also. Someone will be 18 keeping track and you are - - 19 COMMISSIONER LORD: So I agree with Dr . Daw 20 we need consider our scheduling before we vote . 21 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : That' s fine . 22 COMMISSIONER DAW: Mr . Chairman, don' t I 23 remember that - - I think in the next to the last work 24 session, we did approve a work schedule for the next twelve 25 months? PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 48 1 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Yes, as a matter of fact. 2 COMMISSIONER LORD: Most of us didn' t k.now 3 this rule existed when we approved that. 4 COMMISSIONER DAW• What I mean, we now have 5 it scheduled on our calendar . 6 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Okay, we will continue on 7 with the plan, write the letter, I ' ll sign it. We will 8 forward it to the Council and then - - would you want to 9 discuss the schedule at the next work session? 10 COMMISSIONER DAW: I think so. 11 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Fine . 12 The next item on the agenda is the selection of the 13 Metropolitan Planning Organization technical advisory 14 committee member . Is there anyone on the Commission 15 interested in being the technical advisory committee member 16 to the Metropolitan Planning Organization? 17 COMMISSIONER LORD: I would like to nominate 18 Harold Daw? 19 COMMISSIONER LINARD: I second. 20 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Commissioner Lord has 21 nominated Commissioner Daw, and it' s been seconded by 22 Commissioner Linard, as the committee member to the 23 technical advisory commission meetings . 24 COMMISSIONER DAW: I don' t have a notion what 25 that involves in time, and I would sure need to know PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 49 1 something about that because I may be the next commissioner 2 to go. 3 Commissioner Linard, do you know if it meets once a 4 month or once every two weeks or - - 5 COMMISSIONER LINARD: They generally meet on 6 the first Thursday of the month at four o' clock in the 7 afternoon here in the Commission chambers . That' s where it 8 is when I have attended. 9 COMMISSIONER DAW: Do they have work 10 sessions? 11 COMMISSIONER LINARD: No, they just meet once 12 a month. 13 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Okay, do we have any other 14 nominees for the position of technical advisory committee 15 member? 16 Going once , going twice . We will close the nominations 17 and go on to balloting. I assume that the rule still 18 applies? Mr. Weir, would you continue the ballots . 19 ( The ballots were cast and Mr. Weir collected 20 and counted the ballots. ) 21 MR. WEIR: Commissioner Daw was elected as 22 representative by a 6 to 0 vote. 23 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Congratulations . You will 24 probably get some additional information from the staff as 25 to what other duties you have to perform on that committee. PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 50 1 And I think that from time to time it' s a matter of 2 reporting back to us on the status of the decisions on that 3 MPO organization, right? 4 Okay, any other business of interest to come before 5 this commission? 6 MR. WEIR: Mr . Chairman, I just have a point 7 of order, on your recommendations on the amendment for the 8 nursing home and adult care facilities . You just voted on 9 an amendment to the motion. We didn' t vote on the final 10 issue . 11 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : You are correct. Going back 12 to case ZCA-92-006 we voted on the amendment to the 13 amendment. I failed to call a vote on the main amendment. 14 Did someone raise a question? At this particular point 15 in time, might I have a motion to approve or deny case 16 ZCA-92-006? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : I move that we approve. 18 COMMISIONER KILLIAN: Second. 19 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : No discussion? Okay, we 20 will vote, then. 21 COMMISSIONER LORD: Aye . 22 COMMISSIONER DAW: Aye . 23 COMMISIONER KILLIAN: Aye. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : Aye . 25 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Aye . PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 51 1 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : And the chair votes aye . 2 The motion carries. 3 (The motion carried 6 to 0 . ) 4 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Okay, going back now down to 5 other business of interest to come before this commission. 6 Any other business of interest? 7 Then we will go on to public participation. Anybody in 8 the public wish to address this commission? Ms . Nolen. 9 MS. 'NOLEN: Just a quick comment. I just 10 wanted to thank all the Board, all the commissioners for the 11 latitude that you allowed me in discussing the special case 12 that I was interested in. Thank you very much. 13 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Well , knowing the position 14 that you occupy on one of the other boards , it' s always 15 valuable . You come across situations that often affect us . 16 And obviously you have points of interest and points of view 17 that can be of much value to us . And we appreciate that 18 very much. 19 MS. NOLEN: That particular one was just as a 20 ordinary citizen, just like everybody else . 21 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Commission comments? Any 22 comments from any of the commissioners? 23 Staff comments? 24 MR. WEIR: I have none . 25 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Do I have a motoin to PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27 , 1992 52 1 adjourn? 2 COMMISSIONER DAW: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : Second. 4 (The motion to adjourn passed unanimously, 6 5 to 0 . ) 6 (Meeting ended at 9 : 05 p.m. ) 7 8 9 10 Chairman Perez Commissioner Lord 11 12 13 14 2 W* ' �NivlJ1 A Al 15 Commissioner Willis Commissioner Linard 16 17 18 19 �^ 20 Commissioner Killian Commissioner Daw r 21 22 23 24 25 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING October 27, 1992