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08-27-1992SP d * I 1 1 2 3 CITY OF LAS CRUCES 4 5 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING 6 7 HELD ON AUGUST 27, 1992 8 9 SPECIAL SESSION 10 11 7 : 30 P .M. 12 13 FIRST FLOOR CONFERENCE ROOM 14 CITY/COUNTY BUILDING 15 16 17 18 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Sharlyn Linard, Acting Chairman Harold Daw 19 Roger Lord Richard Killian 20 Kay Willis 21 22 STAFF PRESENT: David Weir Mark Simms 23 24 25 Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Commissior. August 27, 1992 Minutes � f 2 1 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: I would like to call 2 this meeting to order . This is a special meeting of the 3 Planning and Zoning Commission. This meeting will be 4 conducted following Robert' s Rules of Order . If any member 5 of the public has a comment or question that he or she 6 wishes to address to the Commission, they will be recognized 7 by the chair and then they will state their name so that it 8 may be entered into the permanent record of these 9 proceedings . Each person will be recognized once on each 10 case issue for a time period not to exceed three minutes . 11 If someone has new or additional information, then that 12 individual will be given one additional minute to speak 13 after all citizens who wish to speak on the case have been 14 recognized. 15 When a large number of citizens wish to discuss the 16 case as a neighborhood group, then 15 minutes will be 17 allowed for a group spokesperson, if one had been selected 18 by the group as their representative . If this spokesperson 19 is elected, then all other citizens wanting to speak on that 20 case will be given one additional minute . 21 The Planning and Zoning Commission is meeting tonight 22 is a special public hearing on case S92-019 , Esperanza 23 Subdivision, and for us to make a recommendation to the City 24 Council to either approve or deny the request for the zone 25 changes , annexation or amendment to the zoning code . The Las Cruces Planning and Zonjng CWTILission August 27, 1992 Minutes 3 1 City Council will make the final decision on these requests 2 at its next meeting. 3 The Planning and Zoning Commission will grant final 4 approval or denial on requests for all special use permits, 5 subdivisions and planned unit developments . Any person 6 adversely affected by the decisions of this commission may 7 file a written appeal stating the grounds for his appeal to 8 the City Council within 15 days of the meeting. 9 May I have a motion to remove from the calendar case 10 592-019 , and make it, at this time , the next order of 11 business . 12 COMMISSIONER DAW: I so move . 13 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: All right. Thank 14 you very much. Is the applicant here? 15 COMMISSIONER LORD: Second. 16 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: And do I have your 17 total agreement of all the members here? 18 Is the applicant here? 19 MR. KING: Yes . 20 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Would you like to 21 make your presentation at this time? 22 Ron King with Skyline Engineering here representing 23 Tierra del Sol . It' s the same subdivision, the same thing 24 that we went through night before last. And we are happy to 25 answer any questions that ya ' ll have about the subdivision. Las Cruces Planning and Zoning C=ission August 27, 1992 Minutes 4 1 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Thank you. 2 Do you have anything to add, Mr . Weir? 3 MR WEIR: I just have a quick presentation 4 for you. The application is for a townhouse subdivision or. 5 the property, which is R-2 , which allows that type of 6 developments 7 The proposal has been reviewed by the Development 8 Review Committee , and they recommended approval of its 9 concept plan. After that approval , they submitted a final 10 plat in which they requested a variance . The variance was 11 to allow the storm drainage from the street and the 12 subdivision to drain into a city holding pond near the 13 Munson Center . The City Engineering Department reviewed 14 that request and felt that the pond had sufficient capacity 15 to handle that drainage ; therefore , the Development Review 16 Committee recommends approval of the variance . 17 The subdivision plat is in major compliance with the 18 subdivision regulations . There are some corrections that 19 need to be made at the request of staff. I believe there is 20 a name change that has been requested and also some final 21 surveying corrections that they would like to check before 22 it ' s been made ; therefore , the staff recommends approval of 23 the subdivision subject to final staff review and also 24 approval of the variance request . 25 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD• Thank you Now, we Las Cnlces Planning and Zoning Ccmission August 27, 1992 Minutes 5 1 will hear from the public . 2 And when you speak , please state your name , so it can 3 be entered into the record. And if you are representing a 4 neighborhood group or just representing yourself, please 5 state that for the record as well . 6 MR ARAGON. I am Nick Aragon. I am a 7 resident at 1916 South Esperanza. I was unable to attend 8 Tuesday' s meeting. My son was my representative . His name 9 is Eric Aragon. My primary concern with regard to the 10 situation at hand that there are several people that are 11 residents around the proposed property--I forget what the 12 project was called--the Esperanza project, Esperanza 13 subdivision. I have copy of the plat here . One neighbor in 14 this case here lives right next door to the project, and 15 never received any notification. Caraway is the last name . 16 They have been there since I can I have remember . I was 17 born in the house next to them in 1948 . 18 There are several other parties here , the Vargas 19 family, the Parras . Their representative , Robert Parra, 20 asked for approval for an extension. He was going to be the 21 representative for the parties . He was one of — — he was 22 involved with the sale of the property at hand. 23 The Munoz family, they did not receive any 24 notification. The Amparan family, the Trevizo family. All 25 of these families live right next to the existing property Las CT-uces Planning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes 6 1 that you guys are talking about, and there was notification 2 given. I feel it' s not right . 3 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Thank you. Anyone 4 else? 5 MR. FRANK MANCHA: Yes . My name is Frank 6 Mancha, and I live right across the street from this 7 proposed subdivision. This plan that we have we obtained 8 from Tierra del Sol does not have no accommodations for 9 senior citizens . And we would like to see more of that 10 instead of just two-story townhouses and/or handicaps , 11 because our main concern is crime . 12 MR. KUESTER: The guidelines - - Paul 13 Kuester . I am project coordinator for this project. The 14 guidelines that we must follow say we take the applicants 15 that qualify both credit-wise and by ability to pay back on 16 a first-come-first-serve basis If one of the applicants 17 happens to be handicapped, then we change the plans to take 18 care of a handicapped person. But until we do, we don' t go 19 ahead and build, say, one unit strictly for handicapped or 20 for senior citizens . 21 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Thank you. Anyone 22 else from the public? 23 Were you finished with your presentation? 24 MR. FRANK MANCHA• I would like to add 25 something if I might Las Criices Planning and Zonj-ng Comission August 27, 1992 Minutes 7 1 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Okay, go ahead. 2 MR. FRANK MANCHA: Nobody was notified prior 3 to this final plat, so we feel that that' s not right. You 4 know, it is the responsibility of Tierra del Sol that they 5 should have at least let us know so we could take care of 6 all of this before . 7 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Maybe we can ask Mr . 8 Weir what notice was sent out? 9 MR. ARAGON: And why these other people did 10 not receive notification. 11 MR. WEIR: Chairman Linard, the subdivision 12 code has requirements for public notification, as was stated 13 at the last meeting. What it is, is all the property owners 14 within 300 feet of the subject property. What planning 15 staff does is , they go to the tax assessor ' s records and we 16 draw the names from those records And in our file we have 17 approximately 20 names and addresses that have been pulled 18 from the county tax assessor ' s parcel maps . And those were 19 the individuals that we sent public notice out to. 20 Also, we advertised this in the public notices of the 21 August 16th Las Cruces Sun-News newspaper, advertising the 22 meeting to be held on the 25th 23 The third type of notification is a posting of a sign. 24 And staff has informed me that they did post a sign on that 25 site , so the subdivision' s code for public notification Las Cruces Plannjng and Zoning Comission August 27, 1992 Minutes 8 1 requirements were performed for this proposal . 2 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: And those 3 notifications were sent out to the property owners . Did 4 they go by return receipt? 5 MR. WEIR: They were sent as certified 6 letters . 7 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD• Sent as certified 8 letters? 9 MR. WEIR: That is correct. 10 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: So you did get a 11 return receipt? 12 MR. WEIR: We have gotten several receipts 13 back . 14 MR. JOSE MANCHA• I believe those 15 notifications were given two days in advance . Well , that' s 16 when they were received at 806 East Nevada, which is right 17 across the street from the area they are going to build 18 MR. ARAGON: Two days prior . 19 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Does it have a date 20 on them when they were signed? 21 MR. WEIR: It has a date that they have to 22 sign these , that they received the letters . What we do is 23 we mail them out 9 to 11 days prior to the meeting as 24 required by the code . That does not take into account the 25 time it takes for the Postal Service to deliver the notices Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes 9 7 1 or for the person on the list to go to the post office and 2 sign for the letters . 3 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: And is there a date 4 on there when they were signed? 5 MR. WEIR: When they were signed, they will 6 be dated. 7 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Did you notice what 8 the letters were dated? 9 COMMISSIONER DAW: Would you tell me the date 10 on them? 11 MR. WEIR: You mean when they were signed? 12 COMMISSIONER DAW: That' s what I was just 13 looking for . 14 The first one does not show the person who signed 15 giving a date , if I read it right . I find no date on it. 16 MR. ARAGON I work for the Postal Service . 17 I can tell you when each one of these was issued. It' s the 18 date on the agent here . This date right here . 19 They didn' t put the date of delivery. It' s supposed to 20 be there . Every time one of these is delivered, they are 21 supposed to put the date of delivery. August the 17th, the 22 14th; the 14th; the 14th. 23 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: I think our mail 24 goes to E1 Paso and comes back . 25 MR ARAGON- Not on certifieds that are local Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Conmi scion August 27, 1992 Minutes 10 1 originated. Most of them were the 14th. Some of these were 2 the 17th. 3 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Yours was the 17th. 4 That was eight days before the meeting. 5 MR. ARAGON: What about the sign? Excuse me , 6 to the reference to the sign. we never seen a sign posted 7 out there . 8 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Any more comments 9 from you, sir? 10 MR JOSE MANCHA. No 11 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: And state your name 12 again for the record. 13 MR. JOSE MANCHA: Jose Mancha . 14 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Anyone else? 15 MS JUANITA CARAWAY: My name is Juanita 16 Caraway. I 've live at 918 Esperanza next door to Mr . 17 Aragon. I have received no letters . I have not seen any 18 signs . The first I have heard about this was today. 19 I don' t know what' s going on here, but it' s not right. 20 And I do believe you do need to notify the rest of us . I 21 live less than 300 feet from this . I saw this gentleman out 22 there, I believe , a week or so ago. He was out in his 23 truck . He was out there . But I have not seen anything, not 24 a letter or nothing, so I do believe before this is approved 25 you need to get with the rest of us in here . Las Cruces Punning and Zoning Commission Al1gus L' 2/, 1992 Minutes 11 1 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: I would like to ask 2 the public one question. Do you all take the Las Cruces 3 Sun-News? Does anyone not take the Las Cruces Sun-News? 4 It was in the legal notices of the Las Cruces Sun-News 5 as required. 6 MR. ARAGON• No, I don' t read the legal 7 notices . 8 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Are we finished with 9 public input? 10 MR. JOSE MANCHA: Again, my name is Jose 11 Mancha . On the proposed sign, it showed that you wanted to 12 build a two-story structure? 13 Okay. I have lived there for 26 years in that area, 14 and are they planning on doing something with the ground? 15 Because I know that they went in there with pieces of cement 16 from destruction of sidewalks and roads and dumped them in. 17 And then they went in there and filled them up with 18 backfill . I mean, is that going to be able to hold? I 19 think according to law, they have to take soil samples and 20 do all kinds of things before the ground is prepared for 21 construction. 22 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Would you like to 23 respond? 24 MR KING: I have a copy of the soil tests 25 that were made by an engineering firm, if they care to refer Las C_--uces Planning and Zoning Cormission August 27, 1992 Minutes 12 1 to it. The whole area is going to be landscaped in 2 accordance to the code We are required to take 15 percent 3 of the parking area of the building and put landscaping in 4 it. So in our budget, to the people , we have a figure in 5 there to cover landscaping 6 MR. ARAGON: I would like to direct one final 7 question to Tierra del Sol . Will these be single-family 8 dwellings and will they have the ability to resale? And 9 what is the criteria for resale , if there is a resale? 10 MR. KUESTER: A member that buys it, defaults 11 and/or it' s taken back , then Tierra del Sol will sell it to 12 another applicant because we have a waiting list. 13 MR. ARAGON: Are they single-family 14 dwellings? 15 MR. KUESTER: They are single-family 16 dwellings 17 MR. ARAGON: Do the people who buy them have 18 a resale option? 19 MR. KUESTER: They can resell the dwelling 20 after a certain - - you have no control after they buy the 21 unit. Tierra del Sol is no longer involved in it. They do 22 have to buy back a certain portion of the grant if they sell 23 it within a two-year period, because it' s designed not to 24 let somebody get in there , get the advantage of the grants 25 and then turn around and sell it and make a big profit on Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes u 13 1 it . So they are required to stay in the house a certain 2 amount of time before they can sell it . If they sell it in 3 less than that time , they have to pay back a percentage of 4 what was given to them in the grant, based on the number of 5 years they have been in there 6 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: All right Thank 7 you. Do we have any more comments from the public? 8 COMMISSIONER DAW: I would like to ask some 9 questions . And I guess I ' ll start over in the corner . And 10 if I understood right, you said you live at 918 South 11 Esperanza? 12 MS JUANITA CARAWAY: Correct. 13 COMMISSIONER DAW: Do you legally own the 14 property? 15 MS . JUANITA CARAWAY: It' s in a trusteeship 16 under my father and mother ' s name It has not been changed. 17 My mother still resides there . I am the other trustee I 18 did not bring any paperwork , but I can provide you with 19 that. 20 COMMISSIONER DAW: Is the trustee the legal 21 owner of the property? 22 MS . JUANITA CARAWAY: Yes , sir . 23 COMMISSIONER DAW: Was the trustee notified? 24 MS . JUANITA CARAWAY: No, sir , because I live 25 there also . I go through the mail , and there was nothing Las C-ruces Planning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes 14 1 there . 2 COMMISSIONER DAW: I guess this was for the 3 staff . Is their name on the list? 4 MR. WEIR: That address is not on the list of 5 properties . 6 MR. ARAGON: That' s adjacent property. I 7 mean, I have been through many of these plats over and over 8 and over . He should have it . It was adjacent property. He 9 should have found it under Mr . Caraway. Because I found it 10 when I looked for it . 11 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: So it' s not listed 12 under the trust? 13 MS . JUANITA CARAWAY: It' s listed under the 14 Caraway trust. 15 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Do you have any more 16 questions , Dr . Daw? 17 COMMISSIONER DAW: Yeah, I guess I do . 18 How many people came in after the meeting the other 19 night — — how many people came in to talk with you relative 20 to the whole project? 21 MR. KUESTER: Two. Since the meeting, this 22 gentleman came in and Mr . Aragon came in. That' s the only 23 two people that came in. 24 COMMISSIONER DAW: The gentleman that lives 25 at 916 South Esperanza . Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Com fission August 27, 1992 Minutes 15 1 MR. ARAGON. Yes, sir, Nick Aragon. 2 COMMISSIONER DAW: Are you the legal owner of 3 the property? 4 MR. ARAGON: Yes, sir . 5 COMMISSIONER DAW. Did you receive a notice? 6 MR. ARAGON: Yes, I did. 7 And he quoted 300 feet . I can get you several 8 residents within 300 feet who were not notified, other than 9 the Caraway family. 10 THE COURT: Are they legal owners or renters? 11 MR. ARAGON: Legal owners to the deed 12 That' s my biggest complaint We do not have all the 13 people that live next to the project, that live next to the 14 projects . 15 COMMISSIONER DAW: There is a difference 16 between living next to the project, and having a deed. 17 MR ARAGON: They are legal owners of the 18 property within 300 feet. 19 COMMISSIONER DAW: And they weren' t notified? 20 MR. ARAGON: Yes , sir . And they need to be 21 notified. You just can' t put a project there, and they 22 were' t notified. 23 COMMISSIONER DAW: They were all notified in 24 the sense that it appeared in the Sun—News . 25 MR. ARAGON: We didn' t get back to the sign Las Ci-u^es Planning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes 16 7 1 there . We never saw the sign yet. By code , I believe that 2 sign should be up there for a variance request . Never saw 3 it. 4 We all saw the signs of the realtors that had - - who 5 had the property for sale . It changed several times , the 6 realtors, over a five-year period. But we never saw a 7 variance sign. 8 COMMISSIONER DAW: I am through asking 9 questions . 10 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD• Commissioner 11 Killian, go ahead. 12 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: I think he had a 13 response to your question, or an answer to your question. 14 MR. KUESTER: I was going to mention, I 15 brought a couple of news publications made in July 1991 of 16 the impact study on that particular area . And it was 17 published in the paper for one week back in 191 when the 18 city originally gave Tierra del Sol the money to purchase 19 this land. 20 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Well , I travel that 21 street every time I go to Jewel-Osco, and I have seen the 22 realtors ' signs, and I have seen the other signs . And I 23 knew it was sold, because it said "sold. " 24 MR. ARAGON: Did you ever see the variance 25 sign? Las Criaces Planning and Zoning Corrmission August 27, 1992 Minutes 17 1 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: This sign that says 2 this property is under consideration for something 3 MR WEIR: We had a proposed subdivision . 4 MR. ARAGON: How big was the sign, ma'am? 5 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD• About one foot by 6 about two and a half . Probably on two stakes , 7 MR. ARAGON: Where was it? 8 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Just in the middle . 9 MR. ARAGON: In the middle of the property 10 where all those weeds are . They don' t last very long 11 because vandals will tear them down. 12 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: I don' t know. They 13 seem to be all over the downtown 14 MR. FRANK MANCHA: We live there every day, 15 and we never saw the sign . 16 MR. ARAGON: That is our biggest complaint. 17 All our representatives from the neighborhood, I understand 18 that now, they are going to force the project on us , am I 19 correct on the assumption? 20 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: We are trying to 21 decide that right now. And we have Commissioner Killian who 22 is asking questions . We are commissioner ' s input 23 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Thank you, Madam 24 Chair . 25 I would like to ask the spokesman and the spokeslady, Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Cormission August 27, 1992 Minutes C--,/ 18 1 only for my benefit, I need to know what your objections 2 are . 3 And I am sure the other members , what are your specific 4 objections to the project? 5 MR. ARAGON- Well , there are no objections to 6 your project But the question is , what does the project 7 have to offer for us as a neighborhood? 8 I have been there since 1948 . Some of those people 9 have been there since the 130s , I am sure , now. You know, 10 when we initially lived there , we had horses and chickens, 11 and the City made us move everything out of there . Now all 12 of a sudden, the City is forcing people on us that we don' t 13 know. We have been neighbors for years . What type of 14 families are we going to get, you know, for what your 15 project consists of? 16 You know, our concern is , are we going to get more 17 protection? Are they going to cruise the neighborhood more? 18 We have problems in the neighborhood that you don' t know 19 about, and we have poor response when it comes to any type 20 of activities . When we call police officers , we take 911 , 21 it takes forever to get an officer out there when there is 22 battle royals going on across the street. 23 What' s going to happen when you have got twelve 24 different families in there and you can' t get an officer oLt 25 there and somebody is being killed? That' s a concern. Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes 19 1 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: I think that can be a 2 problem, but that' s any neighborhood What you are 3 discussing here is your neighborhood 4 MR. ARAGON: Every weekend there are 5 gunshots , because in that neighborhood there is ill-will , 6 sir, and - - 7 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Sir , we are at 8 commissioner input, and I would appreciate if you would let 9 the commissioner continue with his questions . 10 MR. ARAGON: What do you have to offer us? 11 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Let me revert back . I 12 think I asked the question first . I asked what your 13 objections were . Let me kind of go over what you said. You 14 are concerned about the type of people that might move in 15 there? 16 MR. ARAGON: Right . 17 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN. The other one was that 18 you are concerned about not having enough police protection? 19 MR. ARAGON: Security. 20 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: And you had another 21 one . I missed that . 22 MR. ARAGON: Well , I have several , because I 23 wasn' t at the last meeting. 24 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: I am asking what your 25 objections are , because we need to know what your concerns Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes 20 1 a r,e . 2 MR. MANCHA: We would rather have senior 3 citizens living there , in other words, because that' s 4 perfect for us , senior citizens . 5 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN. The third one - - 6 well , we will say is type of people , the security. 7 MR ARAGON Did I say three? I don' t S remember saying three . 9 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN• It seems to me I heard 10 another one that I had a concern with. 11 MS . CARAWAY: I believe it was , what is this 12 going to offer us? 13 MR. ARAGON: That was the first one , what 14 will you offer? What are you offering us when you put these 15 projects up there? 16 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Do you believe - - 17 have you looked at this? 18 MR. ARAGON:, Yes , when I went by I got a copy 19 of it. 20 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Do you believe that 21 this is not a quality project? 22 MR. ARAGON: I have no complaint about the 23 structure itself. 24 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Is it going to degrade 25 the neighborhood , is that a concern? LC�-�ces Planning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes 21 1 MR. ARAGON: No, it will probably enhance the 2 neighborhood, if anything 3 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: The appearance would 4 be acceptable? 5 MR. ARAGON• I have no complaints about that 6 MR. FRANK MANCHA: Us , too . 7 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: One person at a 8 time , please . 9 MR. ARAGON: That was my main complaint, is 10 the type of people that will be in the dwellings . Like I 11 said, I know all of these people here . And if we have a 12 problem. I am sure I can confront them. Now we have got 13 twelve different families coming in here . We don' t what' s 14 going to come in. All I know is the basic criteria for 15 financing. That' s all I know. 16 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN. Now, another question 17 How can the applicant or the City or this group determine or 18 prevent certain individuals from buying a house , whether it 19 be in this neighborhood or in another area? 20 MR. ARAGON: There is no control . 21 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: That' s correct. I 22 don' t think there is any, okay. 23 MR ARAGON: There was control when you said, 24 "You move your animals out of here ; you can' t have your 25 animals any more . " Las Cruces Panning and Zoning Ccw.mission August 27, 1992 Minutes 22 1 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: That was for public 2 health and safety 3 MR ARAGON: You didn' t inspect that drain 4 back there . Every time I call vector control for all the 5 mosquitoes , they never respond They say, "We don' t have 6 one in the City I have to go to the county to get vector 7 control . 8 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: I don' t think that' s 9 something we have any control over. 10 MR. ARAGON: I know about it all . And those 11 other residents know about it, too. So now the City knows 12 about it. 13 Before we go any further , is there going to be a vote 14 put up? 15 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: There will be a 16 vote , yes , but we must get all of our commissioners - - 17 MR. ARAGON: And I am asking if we are going 18 to vote? 19 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: We will have a vote , 20 and the Commission will decide this . 21 MR. SIMS : I need to talk to you for a 22 second. 23 MR. ARAGON: Are you the guy from the East 24 that my son talked about? 25 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD• Do you have any Las Cruces Planning and Zonini g Cormission August 27, 1992 Minutes 23 1 other questions , Commissioner Killian? 2 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: I kind of lost my 3 train of thought there for a minute . 4 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Let me let you 5 regroup your thoughts . I would like to ask a question . 6 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Certainly, I yield. 7 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Has Tierra del Sol 8 advised the neighborhood since their attendance at the 9 meeting the other night about the townhouses that were built 10 off of Madrid? As I understand, those were also a project 11 of Tierra del Sol . 12 MR. KING: No, we haven' t even started to 13 think about that, yet . This is the one we have to get off 14 the ground first. 15 And when that comes up, we will go into Madrid on 16 Hernandez Street and talk about it. we are going to notify 17 all our neighbors in the whole area. 18 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: And are there other 19 apartments or complexes in the City that have already been 20 completed that were sold to individuals, or is this a new 21 project? 22 MR. KUESTER: This is a new project. The 23 very first one in Las Cruces . 24 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: The very first one? 25 But you have records where there were others built in other Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes 24 1 cities in the United States? This is not a new thing? 2 MR. KUESTER: This is not a new thing at all 3 MR. KING: Tierra del Sol has built other 4 houses and stuff in the City. They have - - they have built 5 houses in Anthony They have built at Sunland Park , 6 affordable houses for Farmers Home , HUD, where the owners 7 put in a certain amount of labor . 8 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: And this is going to 9 be the same type house? 10 MR. KING: It is . 11 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: The owners will 12 participate in the building of their structures? 13 MR. KING: Yes , ma' am. 14 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD And is this the kind 15 of thing Jimmy Carter goes around building? 16 MR KUESTER. The owners will not do 17 technical work such as plastering or electrical or plumbing, 18 anything that requires a licensed contractor . And we have 19 to secure subcontractors that are licensed, because the 20 state monitored this very much. So what they are going to 21 do is clean-up work . They will do painting which doesn' t 22 require any real special skill , different things like that, 23 that an owner can do, very similar to Habitat for Humanity, 24 which I know there is one off of Solano, like on Corbett, 25 and one on Espina that I know about it Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes 25 1 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Thank you very much. 2 Now, you had another questions? 3 MR. FRANK MANCHA: No, never mind. I was 4 just going to say, if we could wait until the other 5 residents got back before we asked any more questions - - 6 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Did you have 7 additional questions , Commissioner Killian? 8 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Do you have any 9 criteria that restricts the type of individuals? For 10 instance , criminal .backgrounds or anything like that, or 11 does this project require that? 12 MR. KUESTER: The project requires that we 13 scrutinize their credit. There is no way we can legally ask 14 for police reports , if that' s what you mean, to see whether 15 they have a police record or not. It' s against HUD' s rules 16 to go in and ask for a police report . 17 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: That' s what I thought, 18 but I wanted to know. I knew this was required. You cannot 19 do that, as I understand it; isn' t that correct? 20 MR. KUESTER: Yes . 21 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Then you are 22 discriminating? 23 MR. KUESTER: Then you are discriminating 24 against the individual . 25 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: It appears to me this Las C--Uces Planning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes 26 1 is personal opinion, but if an individual is willing to go 2 into a unit and put his hard work into it , because it' s a 3 chance to get a start, it appears to me that it might be a 4 quality-type person, wouldn' t you think? 5 MR FRANK MANCHA• Like he said, there is no 6 way to do a background check . 7 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN We can' t do that. 8 MR. FRANK MANCHA: I understand. If we had 9 senior citizens in there , like they were saying they had in 10 another project, they could move somewhere else . If it was 11 just strictly senior citizens, I feel we have a better 12 chance of controlling the crime , see , because everything is 13 close . Like the senior citizen center , the Munson Center, 14 shopping, buses , the church Everything is right there . 15 That' s even better than what they have got going there . 16 It' s just single family I think it' s a better chance for 17 senior citizen housing, you know. 18 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN• Are there any 19 restrictions with this grant? 20 MR. KUESTER: No, none at all . It' s open to 21 everybody that can qualify credit-wise . It' s on a 22 first-come , first-serve basis . That is , if you can qualify, 23 and as long as he has the ability to pay. 24 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Commissioner 25 Killian, I would like to interrupt you a moment to ask our Las Cruces; Punning and Zoning Cc mission August 27, 1992 Minutes 27 1 attorney if I am not correct in saying that when Federal 2 money is provided for housing projects , they cannot 3 discriminate by saying it' s only senior citizens , unless it 4 is specifically granted for senior citizens . 5 MR. SIMS . That is correct 6 MR. KUESTER• In fact, they have special 7 funds earmarked already just for those types of project. 8 This is not that kind? 9 MR. FRANK MANCHA: All right . So I 10 understand he was telling me earlier that they can 11 accommodate senior citizens, but they have - - they can' t 12 climb these stairs right here , you know 13 MR KUESTER: I told this gentleman, and I ' ll 14 tell you, if we get handicapped persons, then we will change 15 the whole complete floor plan to accommodate it for them. 16 It won' t change the exterior elevations of the building, but 17 it will change the interior floor plan, so that he can be 18 taken care of on the ground floor . 19 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Thank you. 20 Commissioner Killian, do you have additional questions? 21 MS . JUANITA CARAWAY: Well , I just think — — 22 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Excuse me, ma'am, 23 one moment. 24 MS JUANITA CARAWAY This is in response to 25 Commissioner Killian' s question I think I have been very Las C-ruces Panning and Zoning Ccmli-ssion August 27, 1992 Minutes 28 1 polite , and I have raised my hand, and I am just going to 2 tell you what we are all thinking He said, any objections , 3 and I have an objection 4 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD. We gave you an 5 opportunity to speak Now, we are asking for questions from 6 our commission . When they are finished, then we will again 7 give you a chance to comment . 8 Commissioner Willis , do you have any questions? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : I would like to know 10 what this lady has to say, yes . 11 MS . JUANITA CARAWAY: I am just going to tell 12 you what we are all feeling. We are tired of the gangs, and 13 this is what is going to be attracted here . We have a nice 14 neighborhood We live together peacefully, except for one 15 family. And we don' t want any more trouble here, unless you 16 are willing to step up patrols and response times 17 I have a six-year-old that I have to consider . I don' t 18 want that influence there . She is not allowed out of my 19 yard, now. This man can tell you, I have a six-foot fence 20 around my house, and she is not allowed out of that without 21 me . And for the same reason, and I don' t want this project 22 there . And no , I was not notified. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : Thank you. 24 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Any additional 25 questions Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Commission Augus-c 27, 1992 Minutes 29 1 COMMISSIONER LORD: Did you get an appraisal 2 on this property? 3 MR. KUESTER: It' s being appraised on the 4 individual units It' s being appraised right now. The 5 preliminary appraisal is going to run - - Mr . Hansen is 6 doing it, and he gave us a preliminary appraisal . It' s 7 going to be around $52 , 000 to $53 , 000 . 8 COMMISSIONER LORD: If I am understanding the 9 public input, I think what they are saying is that the type 10 of people that would qualify for this kind of housing in 11 that income bracket are not the kind of people that they 12 might want to have in their neighborhood. 13 Am I hearing that right? I think that' s basically what 14 they are saying. 15 what income level qualifies for $52 , 000? 16 MR KUESTER: They have a certain percentage 17 of people with medium incomes, which is $22 , 800 . 20 percent 18 of the site can be utilized by medium income people which 19 make $22 , 800 . Then this lower income they have , I don' t 20 know the exact figure because I am not the loan officer, but 21 I think it' s around $14 , 000 . But I can gave you those 22 figures . 23 COMMISSIONER LORD: So to restate what you 24 just said, someone who makes as little as $14 , 800 , with the 25 help of the grants which reduces the mortgage can qualify? Lac Cruces Planning and Zoning Cormission August 27, 1992 Minutes 30 1 MR KUESTER• Yes . And that' s the only way 2 he can get in there But he will also have to have a good 3 credit rating. And nine times out of ten, when you see a 4 person with a good credit rating, he is not the type that is 5 going to bring a gang with him, or anything else . 6 If he wants a home of his own, he will take care of it . 7 In our experience in this business , we have found out that 8 home ownership gives a person pride . He takes care of it. 9 And actually, what he does is , he helps the neighborhood out 10 more than hinders it . But there is no other criteria . We 11 can' t screen them any further than credit . 12 And they are obligated to fulfill the same credit 13 requirements that anybody else off the street would come ir_ 14 and do . 15 MR. ARAGON- I guess in reference to that - - 16 my name is Nick Aragon Is there other projects that Tierra 17 del Sol has done similar to this project? 18 MR. KUESTER: Not with duplexes, not a 19 townhouse . Now, we are building homes all over the City 20 right now at the present time which are self-help homes, but 21 not in this particular project. Not that many dwellings in 22 the cul-de-sac . They are all single family except you have 23 a dividing wall It' s a townhouse And because of the 24 limitations and the City requirements for parking and 25 everything, we could only fit a certain amount on there Las C_uces Planning and Zoning Cc=..J_ssJ_on August 27, 1992 Minute 31 1 MR. ARAGON- Well , like I said, there are no 2 complaints about the plat the way it' s submitted, and 3 everything It is excellent . It upgrades the neighborhood. 4 Like I said, we have all voiced the same concern, twelve 5 different families in twelve different units . 6 MR. KUESTER. Well , you can' t prejudge the 7 people 8 MR. ARAGON: Well , we don' t know who' s going 9 in there . 10 MR. KUESTER: I don' t know either . You are 11 right away prejudging them and saying they are going to be 12 bad people , and you can' t do that . 13 MR. MANCHA: You can' t - - 14 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Please have some 15 mercy on our reporter 16 MR FRANK MANCHA. This gentleman is talking 17 like he doesn' t have all his paperwork together, yet - - 18 although he is asking to have this approved already. He 19 doesn' t even know what the appraisal is going to be on those 20 homes . He doesn' t know - - basically, he doesn' t have all 21 his paperwork together . He ' s got a copy of soil samples . 22 And I don' t know what that means, these soil samples . I 23 know very well that' s not what' s under that ground. 24 And he is coming up saying, We are still waiting for an 25 appraisal we are still waiting for this We are still Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes 32 1 waiting for that If we don' t decide now, if we don' t 2 convince you people they are not ready for it - - he ' s 3 already convinced me he is not ready to sell us on this 4 idea. I mean, you can give it - - you can approve it, but 5 the next thing we will be having something else other than 6 what we are discussing here . 7 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Are you finished? 8 MR. KUESTER: We have all the applicants 9 already approved through the credit process waiting. But we 10 cannot go any further until this subdivision is approved. 11 And so the appraisal - - as far as the appraisal , he is 12 appraising the houses from the master plan, because all the 13 houses will be of the same construction All will have the 14 same materials . So we can use the same appraisals on each 15 lot . If some of the lots are a lot larger or a lot smaller, 16 they have to amend the appraisal based on the size of the 17 lot . But we have the applicant approved, but we cannot set 18 a firm price on it until the appraisal is done . There is no 19 problem with the appraisal because of the grant. I feel 20 confident that it' s going to appraise at $53 , 000 or $54 , 000 . 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : A couple of things . I 22 think I probably speak for all of the commissioners in 23 telling you how much we appreciate it when the public comes 24 in and tells us what they think and feel about their 25 neighborhoods and developments that go in And thank you Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Cormi ss ion August 27, 1992 Minutes 33 1 very much for doing this . 2 I am wondering if someone could give us a feel for what 3 they would say is the average of the appraisal value of the 4 properties in that neighborhood as they exist right now? 5 Does anybody have a feel for that? 6 MR. ARAGON. This is an older neighborhood. 7 Some of those homes - - I have a house that sits behind me 8 that was built in 1928 , that' s almost about to fall down. 9 It' s my grandma' s old house . 10 Some of those houses are different. Some of the houses 11 were built in the early, early 1900 ' s . There is no way - - 12 as a matter of fact, I have got a home that I was born in. 13 It' s three little rooms of adobe , and ten of us piled up in 14 there . I bought this dwelling from my parents , and I have 15 gone and overbuilt for the neighbors , because I figure I am 16 going to die in the neighborhood. Whether my kids take it 17 over or not - - this is the reason I am responding to what' s 18 happending in this particular situation. 19 I have overdeveloped my house, but I am concerned with 20 what' s happening. And that' s the reason we went and made 21 phone calls . Everybody contacted everybody else and made 22 sure we had enough people at this particular meeting. I and 23 almost everybody feel sure about the situation. We are not 24 complaining about what they are building, but we are 25 concerned with what' s coming in. It' s like taking somebody Lias Cruces Punning and Zoni-ng Corm,issior, August 27, 1992 M_nutes 34 1 out of Telshor and putting them in our neighborhood or maybe 2 taking them out of my neighborhood and putting me in 3 Telshor . I am not comfortable in the Telshor neighborhood. 4 And we don' t know what' s going to happen if these people 5 move in, and then they decide to sell , who is going to buy. 6 We just don' t know who is moving in here . 7 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: I think that occurs 8 all over Las Cruces . I cannot dictate who lives next door 9 to Mr . Aragon or across the street from me . So it' s all 10 over Las Cruces All over the world 11 Would you have any further questions? 12 MR. FRANK MANCHA: I was going to respond to 13 that a little . 14 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Let' s give 15 Commissioner Willis a chance to ask her questions , please . 16 MR FRANK MANCHA: I thought she was asking 17 all of us? 18 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: A spokesman. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIS: I don' t think I have 20 any more questions . I just have comments , , commissioner . 21 COMMISSIONER DAW: I wanted to ask the 22 attorney a question that you just asked. Do I have any 23 control over who lives in the house next to me? 24 MR. SIMS : No If you mean legal control , 25 no, you really do not have it Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Commission August, 27, 1992 Minutes 35 1 I want to give you a non-attorney answer , because many 2 people are more comfortable with that. You actually do have 3 some control , that' s the non-attorney' s answer . You have 4 some control because you can always have neighborhood 5 associations , and if someone is there that you don' t like, 6 you can buy them out , or you can be very nasty to them and 7 force them out . I mean, that happens all the time . 8 But the law says fair housing. And under the 9 Constitution, no, you cannot. If a gang member comes in, cr 10 the head of a gang and lives next door to you, you are stuck 11 with it. That' s the current law. 12 COMMISSIONER DAW: And the only criteria 13 really, then, is whether they can qualify to buy the house; 14 is that right? 15 MR. SIMS : Right 16 COMMISSIONER DAW: And if they can qualify to 17 buy the house , get the mortgage or pay cash, or whatever , 18 they can move in not only next to me but next to anyone in 19 town or in the state? 20 MR. SIMS : Yes . The protections in the law 21 are really for the opposite reason. It' s if this person 22 qualifies and then you refuse to allow them to live there, 23 then they are protected further by the law. It' s 24 unconstitutional discrimination 25 COMMISSIONER DAW Thank you, that' s all my Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes 36 1 questions . 2 COMMISSIONER LORD I don' t have any 3 questions . 4 MR. WEIR: I have a point of order about the 5 comment I made earlier in the evening. I incorrectly 6 identified the requirement for public notification. It' s 7 only 200 feet as opposed to 300 feet . And the lady' s 8 property was identified on our property maps , but when we 9 printed it out , the owner that was on the property was the 10 City of Las Cruces . So there was some type of error in the 11 computer printout on the property. Thank you. 12 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Any additional 13 questions from the Commission? 14 MR. SIMS : If I may, the youngest member here 15 has been raising his hand for quite sometime . I am curious . 16 Could you recognize him and find out his question. 17 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: The youngest member 18 here is Commissioner Willis ' son. If he' s been raising his 19 hand, I guess he is member of the public, isn' t he? 20 Do you have a question? 21 MR. WILLIS : Not a question. Well , yeah, I 22 guess . I wanted to know if - - well , I have two questions . 23 If you are so worried about gang members and 24 everything, why would you want elderly people living there? 25 I mean, if there is a drive-by shooting every night, you Las Cruces t'_anning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes 37 1 know, there are a few heart attacks that go along with that 2 And why build houses when you could a build a park and 3 clean up that neighborhood a little? 4 MR. FRANK MANCHA: We have a park that was 5 just recently built, and there is a good deal of crime there 6 already. As far as the elderly people, they cause less 7 trouble . They don' t have kids that are going to be out 8 there causing problems . That' s the main thing. 9 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Do you have any 10 other comments from the public? 11 MR JOSE MANCHA Everyone has been talking 12 about control over who lives in our neighborhood. Once a 13 dwelling is built and people can apply for that dwelling or 14 that area , we don' t have no control . The only control we 15 have is here , convincing the Commission to either approve 16 this project or not approve it That is the control that we 17 have . We are not asking you to deny somebody something. We 18 are asking, first of all , are we going to approve this or 19 are we not going to approve this project? 20 So we have control , regardless of what everybody else' s 21 opinion is . 22 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Well - - 23 MR. JOSE MANCHA Let me finish, ma' am. And 24 I lost my train of thought already, too . But I - - I 25 already lost it . But I am just trying to say that we do Las CL-aces Panning and Zoning Commission August 27, 1992 Minutes 38 1 have control , because it' s not built there yet . I mean, if 2 the gentleman - - if we sit here and we ask you for a 30-day 3 extension on this , and then we all get together and sit down 4 with the builders or whatever and come to some kind of 5 agreement or something, because not everybody got their 6 notice or we didn' t get the notice until maybe eight days or 7 whatever the situation was , we didn' t have time to review 8 this gentleman' s plans . 9 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: I understand he said 10 from Tuesday night - - he only had two people come to his 11 office since Tuesday night when this was scheduled for a 12 hearing Tuesday night what' s today, Thursday? 13 MR. JOSE MANCHA: Well , ma' am, I work . And I 14 have got other things to do than go straight to this 15 project. I have had other things that I had to take care 16 of . My work , for instance , I have to bring it home . I have 17 to take care of this . If I would have to had time to go to 18 this man between now and Tuesday - - 19 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: I understand your 20 reasoning. There are a lot of people that have to work and 21 to take care of other things 22 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: I have one more 23 question. 24 This afternoon I made a last-minute drive through the 25 neighborhood and checked the site out. I think down a block Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Corriission August 27, 1992 Minutes 39 1 north and on the corner there are some apartments . Are 2 those not apartments there? A block north on Arizona 3 Street . I think it' s a block there on the northeast corner . 4 Well , it would be on the southeast corner . There is a long 5 building there that has several doors like maybe three 6 units . 7 MR. ARAGON: Oh, yes, that' s Nevada Street 8 and Esperanza . 9 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: It' s a fairly nice 10 building. It' s fairly new, or it looks new. 11 MR ARAGON: It' s been well taken care of. 12 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN• Is that apartments? 13 MR. ARAGON: Yes . 14 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Is there any control 15 that the owner has on that for who lives there? 16 MS . CARAWAY Might I answer that? 17 I know the owner . And when we have a complaint because 18 of whoever was there , he has asked them to either clean up 19 their act or find another place to live . 20 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: So he is working with 21 you? 22 MR. FRANK MANCHA: He is also a resident of 23 the area, but he is in northern California . 24 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: It' s very difficult 25 for us not to have a folksy type conversation, but the Las Cruces Punning and Zoning Commission Auc;ust 27, 1992 Minutes 40 1 gentleman can only record one voice at a time . It' s like 2 shorthand, I believe . 3 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: I have finished. 4 COMMISSIONER LORD: Has this property had fcr 5 sale signs on it? For a number of years I have driven by cn 6 my way home and I have noticed a number of times that it was 7 for sale . Have you thought that what you are getting may to 8 the lesser of two evils? 9 MR FRANK MANCHA: The only thing is if we 10 had been notified - - they had months to do all this 11 project, you know, do all the research and stuff. If we 12 would have been notified before , we could have worked 13 together . That' s the thing, they gave us notice at the last 14 minute . Their deadline is when, Monday? They made it hard 15 on themselves . 16 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Are you finished? 17 To continue with his question, when realtors' sign said 18 "sold" or disappeared, you had no questions as to what 19 happened to it? Because that' s been some time since that 20 sign indicated that the property had been sold. I don' t 21 know whether it' s been a year or how long, but it' s been 22 some time . 23 Did you ever notice that it was sold? 24 MR FRANK MANCHA: Yes , but I just feel they 25 had a responsibility to let the community know, you know, Las C_-_-uces Planning and Zoning Cormission August 27, 1992 Minu-ces 41 1 what was going to happen before the deadline that they have . 2 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Before we vote on 3 this, I would like to ask some questions myself . 4 The sum of money which was going The City of Las Cruces 5 for whatever - - for this purpose , is a grant for the first 6 time? This is the first Las Cruces has been able to provide 7 affordable housing of this type? 8 MR. KUESTER: That is correct. 9 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: And you were given a 10 certain criteria to meet, or they would lose the project? 11 MR. KUESTER. That is correct. It is a 12 HUD-backed project that was already approved in the 13 comprehensive plan for the City. And the only reason that 14 it was brought up again was because of the difficulty of the 15 drainage, because actually the subdivision had approval or 16 the consent, but we had to change it because of the drainage 17 and asked for the variance , because HUD will not allow 18 on-property ponding. 19 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Onsite or what? 20 MR. KUESTER: Onsite ponding of drainage 21 water . 22 In other words, they will allow it, but they won' t 23 finance it . 24 MR. KING: May I ask one question? 25 The project itself is, as far as design and Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Ccmmission August 27, :i992 Minutes 42 1 structure - - you say you have no problem with it? 2 MR. ARAGON. It looks great on paper . 3 MR. KING: We have tried our best to go in 4 and meet with the City' s , you know, regulation, HUD' s 5 regulations , Farmers Home Administration' s regulation for 6 grading and drainage , and we hired a testing lab to do the 7 tests , because unless we have them tests done HUD will not 8 even participate . And if it showed that - - if that test 9 did show that there was a possibility of sinkage or 10 settling, that project would have been - - it would have 11 been cost prohibitive to go in and take it out and put it 12 back . That' s the reason we have these tests run by 13 professional laboratories . 14 Okay, getting back to, if you have looked at the 15 project and have no problems with the project, and the only 16 problems ya' ll have is the people that are coming in, what 17 can Tierra del Sol do about that? I mean, we could have 18 gotten together with you a month ago and given you the same 19 plans, and you could have looked at the project and not had 20 any problems with it, but we have no control over who moves 21 in. We are going by the guidelines that we have . 22 MR. FRANK MANCHA: Nick brought out three 23 points and said. First of all , we are all concerned about 24 the public , about who' s going to come in. Okay, that' s 25 something that would be discussed and probably resolved. Las Cruces Planning and Zoning Comission August 27, 1992 Minutes 43 1 And then, what benefits is the neighborhood going to 2 get, see . 3 And also, I believe the other one was , if we would have 4 notification and we could have studied everything as a 5 neighborhood, there probably wouldn' t be no problem. But 6 the point is we haven' t had time to study it . We haven' t 7 had the time to discuss it amongst ourselves to see if there 8 is a benefit for us . 9 MR. KING: So -you are saying, if we would 10 have done it a month ago - - 11 MR. FRANK MANCHA: Yes . 12 MR. KING: I mean, you don' t feel that we 13 would still be in the same stand-off we are now in? 14 MR. FRANK MANCHA: Well , we could have 15 discussed it, and discussed what was in it for us . I mean, 16 you as businessmen, the first thing you ask is what' s in it 17 for me . 18 MR. KING: Well , one of my answers would be, 19 they are going to subdivide . They are going to get more 20 taxes . And I am saying possibly you might get better police 21 protection. You might get better parks . You might get 22 better input because of taxes; you know what I am saying. 23 There is nothing Tierra del Sol or he or I could do anything 24 about 25 MR. ARAGON: I would like to say one thing in PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AUGUST 28 , 1992 44 1 closing. It will be my last statement. 2 You know, most of us here are second generations to 3 live in this community. This gentleman here is probable 4 third or fourth generation. And as far back as I can 5 remember , everybody here has lived in this little village 6 known as Chiva Town. And this will probably not change a 7 lot. More than likely--I am not voting for the Commission 8 and I am not saying for Tierra del Sol--but your votes are 9 probably already registered in your mind, I am quite sure 10 with the comments that have been made . But in our hearts we 11 feel that the lots should remain as it is , even though it' s 12 not as beautifully developed as those project depicts it to 13 be . And I will go back to the same point of issue . We are 14 concerned with what' s coming in, regardless of what happens 15 From here , when we walk out from this meeting, and the votes 16 have been registered from you guys , we will probably 17 consider what we will do as a group, as a community, if we 18 decide to do anything. 19 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: Thank you very much. 20 And I will remind you that anyone adversely affected by the 21 decision of this commission may file a notice of appeal 22 within 15 days of this meeting to the City Council . 23 Are we ready to vote on the subject? 24 Any more questions? 25 COMMISSIONER DAW• I move that the project be Las Cnices Planning and Zoning Ccm,iss ion August 27, 1992 Minutes 45 1 approved. 2 COMMISSIONER LORD Second. 3 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: I guess we should 4 have a roll call . 5 COMMISSIONER KILLIAN: Aye . 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : Aye . 7 COMMISIONER LORD: Aye . 8 COMMISSIONER DAW: Aye . 9 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD: And the Chair votes 10 aye . 11 ( The motion carred unanimously, 5 to 0 . ) 12 ACTING CHAIRMAN LINARD• Thank you very much 13 for coming and expressing your views . We appreciate it. 14 If there are no objections , this meeting will be 15 adjourned. 16 ( Meeting adjourned at 9 : 20 p m. ) 17 18 19 20 �� �� ) cz"/ �J Sharlyn Linard, Acting Chairman Ayri is 21 22 23 Richard Killian Harold Daw 24 25 Roger Lord Las Cruces P i anning and Zoning (-cnmissioi. August 27, 1992 Minutes