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03-24-1992 e 1 1 s 2 t 3 CITY OF LAS CRUCES 4 5 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING 6 7 HELD ON MARCH 24 , 1992 8 9 7 : 30 P.M. 10 11 CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS 12 13 14 15 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Eddie Perez, Chairman Connie Sharpe 16 Sharlyn Linard Ed Bailey 17 Roger Lord Kay Willis 18 19 STAFF PRESENT: W. Mark Simms Vincent Banegas 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS , INC LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 1 Q 2 1 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Let ' s go ahead and call the 2 meeting to order . This meeting will be conducted following 3 Roberts Rules of Order. If any member of the public has a 4 comment or questions that he or she wishes to address to the 5 commission, they will be recognized by the chair and then 6 they will state their name so that it may be entered into _ 7 the permanent records of these proceedings. Each person 8 will be recognized once on each case for a time period not 9 exceeding three minutes . If someone has new or additional 10 information, then that individual will be given one 11 additional minute to speak after � P all citizens who wish to {. 12 speak on the case have been recognized. 13 When a large number of citizens wish to discuss the 14 case as a neighborhood group, then 15 minutes will be 15 allowed for a group spokes person, if one has been selected, 16 by the neighborhood group as their representative . If this 17 spokes person is elected, then all other citizens wanting to 18 speak on that case will be given one additional minute. 19 The planning and zoning commission is meeting tonight 20 to have a public hearing on one subdivision - - 21 Well , I guess I need to add this , the City of Las 22 Cruces will make every effort to provide reasonable 23 accommodations for people with disabilities who wish to 24 attend the public meetings . Please advise the city at least 25 24 hours before the meeting at 526-0000 , or TDD number SOUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS, INC. LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 ,. 129 3 1 526-0795 . 2 Those items on the agenda that are marked with an 3 asterisk are on the consent agenda and will be voted on in 4 one motion. We don' t have any items on that agenda, and 5 therefore, we will go on to old business . 6 First is subdivision case number 5-91-039 . 7 Do I have a motion to approve? 8 MS . SHARPE: Mr. Chairman, this case has 9 already been approved, and it was on the table for 10 postponement. 4 11 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : I stand corrected. 12 MS . SHARPE: I move that we discuss case 13 5-91-039 . 14 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Do we have a second? 15 COMMISSIONER BAILEY: Second. 16 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : First, we will go to the 17 applicant . -- - 18 MR. SCANLON: My name is Ted Scanlon. I 19 represent the applicant . I don' t have any formal �0 presentation to make tonight. Ya' ll have seen this before. 21 I will be happy to answer any questions . 22 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : okay, staff. 23 MR. BANEGAS : Mr. Chairman, members of the 24 commission, as Mr . Scanlon has stated, this case has been 25 brought to you on two separate occasions . Each time that it SCUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS , INC. LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 � 130 4 1 was brought to you - - the first time it came to you, 2 rather , there was a problem with the master drainage plan in 3 that it hadn' t been completed. The second time that it was 4 brought to you the plan was in its final stages of 5 completion. And at this point in time, the master drainage 6 plan has been accepted by the engineering staff and has been 7 approved by said staff . 8 It is a 15-lot subdivision which basically entails the 9 creation of 13 new lots and replats., if you will, of two 10 existing lots . It' s in an R-3 zone , and at this point in 11 time the density for the development is being called for at 12 3 . 4 dwellings units per acre , and should you have any 13 questions I will be happy to an.swer those . 14 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : At this point since we don' t 15 have any public for public input, we will go right on to 16 commissioner participation and input . Anybody on the 17 commission have any comments? 18 COMMISSIONER BAILEY: We are waiting for you, 19 Connie . 20 COMMISSIONER SHARPE: Well , all right, all 21 right . It says here that the developer will pay 50 percent 22 of drainage and street improvements for Venus Street and 23 that the developer is responsible for curb and gutter along 24 Venus Avenue . I will amend the motion to approve to include 25 those two items , one and three . SOUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS , INC. LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 131 5 1 MR. SCANLON: Those are part of the design 2 standards and regulations, which we are not asking for any 3 variance to that anyway. 4 CHAIRMAN PEREZ: I think those were issued. 5 I don' t know how far along Venus Street, the sidewalk and 6 curb improvements are - - S 7 MR. SIMMS : We are opening bids on that 8 tomorrow at eleven o'clock. 9 COMMISSIONER SHARPE: Well , that sounds like 10 that' s a done deal , doesn' t it? 11 MR. SIMMS : So it' s under way. 12 COMMISSIONER SHARPE: Then there is no sense 13 in amending it. I withdraw that motion. 14 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Anybody else have comments? 15 COMMISSIONER BAILEY: On page four of the 16 staff report under "drainage impact, " I just want to get it 17 confirmed when you say "negative" that means that there is 18 no impact. 19 MR. BANEGAS : Commissioner Bailey, I believe 20 the staff report indicates a negative impact at the time 21 this was put together and the packet was assembled. Please 22 bear in mind that the master drainage plan was still in 23 question and that was one of the reasons, rather than 24 indicating that it conformed to the design standards and so 25 forth, they more or less reserved the right to comment on it SOUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS , INC LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 32 6 1 at a later date , until it was final and reviewed by 2 engineering staff . So that' s why they put a negative 3 meaning, that it wasn' t meeting the current standards. 4 COMMISSIONER BAILEY: And it is now? 5 MR. BANEGAS : Yes 6 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Any further discussion? If 7 not, we will go on to the vote . 8 COMMISSIONER BAILEY: Aye. 9 COMMISSIONER LORD: Aye . 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIS : Aye . 11 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Aye . � 12 COMMISSIONER SHARPE: Aye . ` 13 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Commissioner Ferriera is 14 absent . The chair votes aye . The vote is six and one 15 absent . The application passes . 16 ( The motion carried 6 to 0 . ) 17 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Any other items from the 18 commissioners or the staff that they wish to discuss? 19 MR. BANEGAS : Mr. Chairman, staff would like 20 to apologize for not having your name plates here . There 21 was a mix up in that , and also for the unavailability of the 22 microphones . There was a logistical problem, and I couldn't 23 access the cabinet . We apologize for that. 24 CHAIRMAN PEREZ . So noted. Any other items �5 of discussion? SOUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS , INC. LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 S 7 p C 1 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Mr. Chairman, are we 2 still in formal session? 3 I ' ll defer until after we are not in formal session. 4 COMMISSIONER SHARPE: Could I ask staff a 5 question. We got an ordinance - - we got here an ordinance 6 for established policy for installation of new sidewalks . 7 Is this incorporated into our subdivision code, or how is 8 this ordinance - - 9 MR. BANEGAS: Commissioner Sharpe, I believe 10 the intent was to more or less amend the provisions in the 11 municipal code where it relates to the requirement for 12 sidewalks . So I believe it' s a direct amendment to the 13 municipal code. `v ` 14 COMMISSIONER SHARPE: So it really doesn't 15 have anything to do with us at all? 4 s 16 MR. BANEGAS : No . Commissioner Sharpe , the 17 requirement that was listed or the page that you were 18 referring to earlier as far as the improvements and so 19 forth, that came right out of the design standards that 20 would be required of any developer who is proposing 21 residential or commercial development. They would be 22 required to put in the sidewalks and pave the streets and so 23 forth . 24 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : That was more or less an 25 amendment to the design standards as a guideline policy for SOUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS , INC. LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 134 8 1 the engineering and inspection staff, as I understand it? 2 MR. BANEGAS : Yes . I think there were 3 conflicting provisions on the sidewalk policy and that was 4 serving to clean it up. 5 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Right. 6 COMMISSIONER SHARPE: Thanks. 7 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Okay, any other comments? 8 COMMISSIONER BAILEY: For those of us that 9 have not been reappointed, is there any idea when that' s 10 going to happen, when we will find out? 11 MR. SIMMS : More than likely - - the latest 12 news is that instead of holding the public hearing for more 13 information about the boards this Thursday, this coming 14 Thursday, it will be held on the 31st, which is Tuesday at 15 seven o' clock . After we hear more public input, then the 16 April 6th meeting should be the final meeting in front of 17 the city counsel when they vote on it. Meanwhile, you act 18 as though nothing has happened. Really nothing has changed. 19 The March 31st deadline was a date that was always there. 20 It' s always been in the city ordinance so you apply for 21 reappointment if your term has come to an end as of March 22 31st , and they would have to approve it. 23 But the thing to fill in the gap is that you would 24 continue to serve even though the 31st has occurred. You 25 will continue to serve until someone comes to replace you, SOUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS, INC. LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 1 .15 1 9 1 or unless you feel like quitting. 2 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Mr. Chairman, I was 3 app years and two ears were u this March appointed for four Y P , 4 so where does that leave me? 5 MR. SIMMS: That would mean you would have 6 two more years . 7 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Do I go reapply? 8 MR. SIMMS : That means you would have two 9 more years . Your term would be up in two more years. 10 COMMISSONER LINARD: I thought they were 11 going to throw the bums out. 12 MR. SIMMS : That' s only if they approve the 13 new ordinance on April 6th. If they approve it, then what 14 it' s saying is , then everybody will have to reaPP1Y• The 15 way it was written, it actually says March 31st or two weeks 16 thereafter , whichever occurs last . So two weeks after the 17 execution of the board' s ordinance , if it' s approved -on the 18 6th of April , then it would be two weeks later that you 19 would actually, say, "Everybody gets a pink slip. " 20 COMMISSIONER SHARPE: That will be the 20th? 21 MR. SIMMS : That sounds about right. 22 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : I was going to say that 23 nothing was changed as far as the P and Z Commission was 24 concerned. 25 MR. SIMMS : That' s right . That is right, as SOUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS , INC LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 10 1 far as the actual section dealing with the Planning and 2 Zoning. Commission, there are no new rules . 3 COMMISSIONER SHARPE: But we are still 4 subject to whatever happens at the public hearing? But if 5 nothing changes at the public hearing, as far as the P and Z 6 is concerned, the old rules still apply, which then let' s us 7 go on. 8 MR. SIMMS : Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER SHARPE: In Commissioner 10 Linard' s case , she was appointed for four years. She has 11 served two . She is still eligible to serve two more years, 12 or does she serve at the pleasure of the counsel? The 13 person that replaced her , the person that appointed her? 14 MR. SIMMS : If reappointed, you would serve 15 an additional four years , and then you would point out to 16 them that you got four plus a partial two from a previous - 17 - before , say, March 31st, 1992 , then, it' s up to them. The 18 charter says - - if they asked me , I would say just go ahead 19 and give you another four years as a full term rather than 20 splitting it in two . But they are looking at eight 21 consecutive years , and you have got an argument. It' s no 22 longer consecutive , because you changed the old rules . The 23 old rule does not say anything about consecutive years . 24 COMMISSIONER LINARD: I feel as if I am on 25 death row, "Will the governor issue a pardon?" SOUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS , INC. 137 LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 11 _. MR. SIMMS : It' s not meant to be mean or 1 G 2 anything. It' s not that deadly. you will get an 3 additional - - anybody who gets a term, it' s supposed to - 4 staggering will still occur , and some will have the four and 5 some will have the two. But the intent in the end is so 6 everybody is out. So that it' s eight years for everybody. 7 COMMISSIONER LINARD: I realize it' s no big g deal . It just makes one unable to make a decision in one' s 9 own life and personal affairs. When you don't know whether 10 you are going to be or you are not going to be, it makes a 11 difference . 12 COMMISSIONER SHARPE: The old law says four . ay at the pleasure of the City Council. 13 years , it does not s a 14 If they appoint you, you should be able to rely on the 15 statute , is what I am getting at. 5 16 MR. SIMMS : There is no constitutional right 17 to stay on the board . 18 COMMISSIONER SHARPE: There is none? 19 So they don' t have to live up to what' s in the statute? 20 MR. SIMMS : Right, as long as they change it 21 according to due process , which is what the ordinance says , 22 then - - 23 MS . SHARPE: I didn' t make my question clear . 24 Like she and I - - she was reappointed. I mean she was 25 appointed for a four-year term, right? That would be what' s SOUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS, INC. LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 138 3 Q � O 'e 12 1 in the ordinance . Now, the ordinance doesn' t say that 2 because two years later there was redistricting and there 3 was the fast shuffle going around, that suddenly she was not 4 appointed for four years, that she only served two years, 5 follow me? 6 MR. SIMMS : But what you are looking at 7 because of the change--and they've got other reasons, too, 8 so let' s say for their extra rationale they hope it wasn' t 9 necessary to change all the boards . If they changed all of 10 them, then the only fair way to do it is to tell everybody 11 your terms have come to an end. I have stopped using the 12 word "terminated. " People associate it with death. Your 13 terms have come to an end, and that' s all it means. It 14 doesn' t mean that you won' t be reappointed; it just means 15 they have ended because of the change . 16 And the basic change that - - you have a mayor at large 17 and the composition of all of the boards are going to change 18 as a result of it . There are some other rules out there 19 that actually affect your P and Z , like the trouble that we 20 were always having with postponing, remember? We used to 21 postpone for a year, and then we got a chance to clean up 22 their act . Under Robert' s Rules you can' t do that, but 23 under this new ordinance--thinking of you, I made sure that 24 you can do that--all you have to do is say we are going to 25 have our own rules and regulations . We are going to follow SOUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS , INC LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 139 -r 13 1 a modified Robert ' s rules ; and in our modification, we will 2 allow postponements, if we want to, for a year. All you 3 have to do - - you can say that. It has to be approved by 4 the City Council , but it' s expected to be a rubber stamp 5 approval , so you can do that or any other changes you want. 6 That change will affect the P and Z , so there are some good. 7 things in there. 8 COMMISSIONER SHARPE: If we make our own 9 rules , the public needs to be apprised of new rules every 10 time you have a public hearing, so those rules - - in other 11 words , the spiel that you make when you say this meeting is 12 conducted according to Roberts Rules of Order, has to say 13 and besides Roberts Rules of Order, there are our own rules 14 of order, and then you have to read them, don' t you? 15 MR. SIMMS : No, you give them notice, and say 16 you' ll have a copy of whatever your rules and regulations 17 are . And then you say we are operating under Roberts Rules 18 of Order as modified . And the exceptions will be on file 19 with the City Clerk , and that' s how the public is notified. 20 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : Whenever we do come to a 21 postponement, we can apprise the people that it' s on its own 22 amended bases . 23 MR. SIMMS : What you do is, you change your 24 rules so you can do your work better . The postponement 25 thing was clumsy, was hurting you, stopping you from doing SOOT"-, ESTER"I COURT PEPORTERS , INC L-,S --RUCES , NEW NE'{ICO 525-2002 d4 7 14 1 the things that you needed to do. 2 MS . SHARPE: Can we go back to the word 3 "table" as opposed to postpone. 4 MR. SIMMS: If that' s what you want to do. 5 That' s the beauty of making your own rules, you can tell 6 them what your definition of tabled is , and that' s what you 7 mean. If by table , you mean you table it until the end of 8 the meeting on until the next meeting, you can table it. 9 You can call it that and use it accordingly, because it's 10 your rule . it COMMISSIONER SHARPE: I just brought it up 12 because I think the general public relates more to the word 13 "table" than they do the the word "postpone, " but they use 14 both. 15 MR. SIMMS : Yes, but they have different 16 meanings in Roberts . 17 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : So prior to March 31st, we 18 make an application to our sponsoring councilman for 19 reappointment? 20 MR. SIMMS : It would just be calling their 21 attention - - you let them know that you are interested in 22 that position. If they know, then they can' t come back and 23 say, I wanted to reappoint you, but you didn' t tell me you 24 wanted to be 25 COMMISSIONER LINARD: We have to go apply for SOUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS , INC. LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 .141 15 1 it again? That is , fill out those forms? 2 MR. SIMMS: Yeah. At this point, it would be 3 enough if you just gave them some kind of written statement 4 saying, yes , I want to be reappointed. And then you do the 5 paperwork that follows, because some of your paperwork is 6 going to change these disclosure statements that they want? 7 COMMISSIONER LINARD: I spoke with Jack 8 val.encia the last week after elections, and he told me he 9 would get in touch with me . To this date, I have not heard 10 from him. Now, it' s formally - - 11 COMMISSIONER SHARPE: It' s in the minutes . 12 MR. SIMMS: And he' ll read it. a 13 COMMISSIONER LINARD: That sort of leaves me 14 on death row, so that I don' t know where I am. 15 MR. SIMMS : Just put it in writing. Don' t 16 depend upon a verbal communication. He can forget. He has 17 a lot of things on his mind. He has a regular job, and then 18 he is councilor . Put it in writing. That way you have a 19 copy of it, and it' s dated so you know. And then you give 20 it to me and he can' t came back and say you never asked. He 21 can' t say that, if you have a copy of it. 22 Usually, when you've got something in writing, usually 23 then you know, and it' s not left in limbo? 24 COMMISSIONER LINARD: Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER BAILEY: Can I make a motion SOUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS , INC. LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 142 16 that we close . COMMISSIONER WILLIS : Second. 2 CHAIRMAN PEREZ : All in favor say aye? (The motion to adjourn carried 6 to 0 . ) 4 6 8 9 10 E die erez Ed Bailey 11 12 13 Connie Sharpe 14 15 16 Lord ill 14S 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHWESTERN COURT REPORTERS , INC . LAS CRUCES , NEW MEXICO 525-2002 143