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03-25-2014 I PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION 2 FOR THE 3 CITY OF LAS CRUCES 4 City Council Chambers 5 March 25, 2014 at 6:00 p.m. 6 7 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: 8 Godfrey Crane, Chairman 9 William Stowe, Vice-Chair 10 Charles Beard, Secretary 11 Ray Shipley, Member 12 Ruben Alvarado, Member 13 14 BOARD MEMBERS ABSENT: 15 Joanne Ferrary, Member 16 17 STAFF PRESENT: 18 Adam Ochoa, Planner, CLC 19 Susana Montana, Planner, CLC 20 Mark Dubbin, CLC Fire Department 21 Robert Cabello, CLC Legal Staff 22 Becky Baum, Recording Secretary, RC Creations, LLC 23 24 I. CALL TO ORDER (6:00) 25 26 Crane: Good evening ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Planning and 27 Zoning Commission meeting for the 25th of March, 2014. Let me start as 28 usual by introducing the Commissioners here present. On my far right 29 Commissioner Shipley, representing District 6; then Commissioner Stowe 30 who's also our Vice Chairman, District 1. Commissioner Alvarado, District 31 3. Commissioner Beard, District 2, and he's also our secretary. And I'm 32 Godfrey Crane, Chair, and I represent District 4. 33 34 11. CONFLICT OF INTEREST 35 At the opening of each meeting, the chairperson shall ask if any member on the 36 Commission or City staff has any known conflict of interest with any item on the 37 agenda. 38 39 Crane: And I go on to ask if any Commissioner or any member of the Community 40 Development Department has any conflict of interest regarding tonight's 41 agenda? Everybody's signifying no. So we will continue. 42 43 111. APPROVAL OF MINUTES 44 1. February 25, 2014 - Regular Meeting 45 I Crane: Approval of the minutes for the last meeting 25th of February. Does any 2 Commissioner have any amendments? Mr. Shipley. 3 4 Shipley: Page 4, line number 22, the sentence reads "there are pet owners maybe 5 who lost a pet and has extra", and I think that "has' should be "have 6 extra". 7 8 Crane: Did you say? 9 10 Shipley: Have. HAVE. 11 12 Crane: Oh, I beg your pardon, you're on page 22. 13 14 Shipley: Page 4, line 22. 15 16 Crane: Have, yes. 17 18 Shipley: And page 10, line number 44, the first word in the sentence is "shifted" it 19 should be "sifted". S I F T E D. And that's all I had Mr. Chairman. 20 21 Crane: Thank you. Any other Commissioner? I have one, page 9, line 24, "any 22 other questions for Ms. Montana" I think should be, rather than "from Ms. 23 Montana'. That's all I have. And so I'll entertain a motion that the minutes 24 of the last meeting be accepted as amended. 25 26 Shipley: I move to accept the minutes. 27 28 Crane: Moved by Mr. Shipley. Do I have a second? 29 30 Beard: Second. 31 32 Crane: Seconded by Mr. Beard. All in favor aye. 33 34 ALL: AYE. 35 36 Crane: Against? Abstaining? Okay, it passes five/zero. Thank you. 37 38 IV. CONSENT AGENDA 39 40 1. Case PUD-13-02: MOVED TO NEW BUSINESS 41 42 2. Case Z2870: MOVED TO NEW BUSINESS 43 44 Crane: The next item on our agenda is the consent agenda. Let me explain for 45 the public what this means. There are two items on it, Case PUD-13-02 46 and Case Z2870. Consent agenda items are matters that the Community 2 I Development Department has guessed may not be controversial so 2 they're put together like this so we can vote on them as a block, however, 3 if any Commissioner, or any Community Development person, or any 4 member of the public present tonight wants to debate either of these 5 issues we will lift it from the consent agenda and put it under new 6 business and address it in a few minutes. Is there anybody who wishes to 7 discuss Case PUD-13-02? Anybody present wish to discuss that one? 8 Mr. Shipley. Okay, we'll put that to new business. And secondly, does 9 anybody present want to discuss Case Z2870? Yes, people there 10 (referring to the seated public). All right, so PUD-13-02 will be the first 11 item of new business and Z2870 will be the second item. 12 13 V. OLD BUSINESS - NONE 14 15 VI. NEW BUSINESS 16 17 Crane: So now let me explain how we handle new business items. A member of 18 the Community Development Department, very probably Mr. Ochoa, will 19 make a presentation and then the Commissioners may have questions of 20 him. Then we invite the interested parties, the people who have applied 21 for the variance or whatever the matter is, to come up and give an 22 address, again we may have questions. Finally we open the mike to the 23 public to come up and give their opinions and we may have some 24 questions of them. Could I please see a show of hands, number of people 25 in the audience who expect to come up and talk to us about any one of 26 these ... either one of these two matters? I see one, okay, in that case I'm 27 not going to ask our secretary to time people, but we'd all appreciate it if 28 you could keep it succinct, but take the time necessary to make your point. 29 30 1. Case PUD-13-02: Application DVI on behalf of Deko Properties, LLC, 31 property owner, for a Concept Plan for a Planned Unit Development (PUD) 32 known as the Sunset Grove PUD. The Concept Plan proposes to convert the 33 existing and proposed condominiums, 50 in total, into fee-simple townhome 34 lots with all interior roads and common areas, including the existing 35 clubhouse, privately owned and maintained. The subject area encompasses 36 24.23 +/- acres and is located at the southern dead-end of Calle de Ninos, 37 north of Farney Lane, Parcel ID# 02-41508 & 02-41509. Proposed use: 38 Single-Family Residential, Council District 2 (Councillor Smith). 39 40 Crane: All right, so Case PUD-13-02, Mr. Ochoa. 41 42 Ochoa: There you go. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Adam Ochoa, Development 43 Services for the record. Mr. Shipley since you are the Commissioner that 44 took this off, is there any specific question you had about the PUD that 1 45 could answer for you or possibly the applicant can answer for you, or 46 would you like a full presentation sir? 3 1 2 Shipley: I think I'd like for you to do the presentation for this matter because I have 3 several questions but the presentation may clarify that. 4 5 Ochoa: Sounds good. No problem sir. First case tonight gentlemen is case PUD- 6 13-02. It is a request for approval of a concept plan for a Planned Unit 7 Development or PUD known as the Sunset Grove PUD. Shown here on 8 the vicinity map, hashed out in the blue lines. It is at the dead-end of Calle 9 de Ninos, north of Farney Road, relatively northeast of Main Street and 10 southwest of EI Paseo to give you a general idea of where this is at. 11 Looking at the current zoning map around there, as you can see subject's 12 property is currently zoned R-4, multi-family high density and limited retail 13 and office and OS-R which is Open Space-Recreational. As you can see 14 surrounding the property to the east and south majority is single-family 15 residential and to the west and north office and commercial zoning 16 designations. Here taking a look at the aerial map, you can see here the 17 subject property with some existing buildings already on the property, 18 magistrate court directly west, park drain to the west as well, and Las 19 Cruces Lateral to the northeast, right behind Las Cruces High School to 20 give you a general idea of where this is at. 21 As I stated the property is located at the southern dead-end of Calle 22 de Ninos. It is currently zoned R-4 and OS-R and the entire area 23 encompasses approximately 24.23 acres, roughly about 15 acres for the 24 residential area and about 8.5 acres that is the open space area. 25 Currently there is a condominium project that's partially built out and of 26 course the other portion being that open space/agricultural area. The 27 applicant is proposing to dissolve the condominium and the condominium 28 association on the property following all state requirements and 29 regulations since that is something that is taken care of through the state, 30 not here in the city for overview, so that will have to first be done. When 31 that is accomplished the applicant is seeking to convert that condominium 32 project into townhome subdivision essentially making fee-simple 33 townhomes where people who own the building will not only own the 34 building like in a condominium association but they will own the building 35 and the land it's on top of. That is the biggest change that is essentially 36 happening with this PUD. Everything else is essentially the same 37 proposed from the original master plan which was approved back in 2006 38 for the condominium association. It's just being changed again into 39 townhomes now. 40 The total number of lots you're looking at is 50 single-family 41 residential lots with townhomes on them, same number proposed with the 42 original master plan. Along with that there will also be two tracts created, 43 one tract that will encompass the privately owned and maintained by a 44 homeowner's association roads, the parking areas, all common areas and 45 landscaping areas, and the existing clubhouse and pool that is on the 46 subject property. Tract two includes the privately owned and maintained 4 I agricultural area/open space that is being proposed for agricultural 2 development growing rosemary, other cash crops like that and then 3 adding an open space type of use on the property with kind of a privately 4 maintained trail around that area for people to utilize to get to and from the 5 laterals and so forth like that. As I stated, again no major changes are 6 proposed with this new PUD as compared to the original development. 7 With the PUD though the applicants did ... the reason for the PUD, excuse 8 me, is the applicants required a number of variances in order to follow ... 9 in order to meet their development standards if you will when being 10 required zero foot setbacks around the entire home if you will or the new 11 lots that are being developed. Because of that the applicant was required 12 to provide public benefits. The applicant did outline a number of existing 13 public benefits from donating lots within the subdivision that was 14 developed by the property owner for community foundation for the First 15 Steps Women's Center, building of a lift station with the city, as well as 16 they will be providing other benefits as ... like a bus shelter along Main 17 Street and of course also that, as I stated before, the pedestrian 18 connectivity, kind of the pathway around the agriculture area to the 19 laterals. 20 Here is a conceptual plan of the proposed PUD, the existing four 21 buildings here, there's kind of a cluster development, clustering four 22 buildings together and leaving everything else open. For the private roads 23 and for the landscaped areas here in the southern half is the L-shaped 24 agricultural area with that maintenance driveway/trail going all around it. 25 Seen here, as you can see here are the standards that they would be 26 outlined ... that they outlined for themselves; minimum lot dimensions, 27 minimal lot size, separation requirements, setbacks and so forth. On 28 January 29, 2014 the DRC or Development Review Committee did review 29 the proposed Sunset Grove concept plan. After some minor discussion 30 the DRC did recommend approval without conditions for the proposed 31 concept plan. With that tonight gentlemen, staff has reviewed the 32 proposed concept plan and recommends approval without conditions 33 based on the findings presented in your staff report. Planning and Zoning 34 Commissioner is a recommending body to City Council for PUD concept 35 plans, or Planned Unit Development concept plans. With that gentlemen 36 your options tonight are to 1) to vote yes to approve the request as 37 recommended by staff and DRC for case PUD-13-02; 2) to vote yes and 38 approve the request with conditions deemed appropriate by the 39 commission, 3) to vote no to deny the request; and 4) to table or postpone 40 the proposed PUD and direct staff accordingly. Just to let you know we 41 did ... staff did receive a couple of phone calls from adjacent property 42 owners after mail-outs were sent out. A couple of them just ... the 43 majority of the questions were just what's going on, what's going to 44 happen, nobody necessarily against what's going on or for, just more 45 curious about what's happening. You did get one printout from an e-mail 46 that I received from an adjacent property owner, again more asking 5 I questions, curious about what's going on, but no general consensus either 2 against or for the proposed PUD. With that the applicant is ... the 3 applicant's representative is here to answer any questions you might have 4 for them, and I stand for questions. 5 6 Crane: Thank you Mr. Ochoa. Mr. Shipley. 7 8 Shipley: Thank you Mr. Ochoa. That's a very good presentation. 9 10 Ochoa: Thank you. 11 12 Shipley: And you did answer some of the questions that I had, at least one. The 13 thing that I noticed obviously is you said no major changes but we've 14 changed the height of the buildings from 16 feet to 20 feet. That's what it 15 says in your plan. 16 17 Ochoa: It'll be to the maximum height, yes sir. 18 19 Shipley: Yes. 20 21 Ochoa: That is correct. 22 23 Shipley: Went up four feet. Also, there was a question, I had a question, you've 24 got 11 parking stalls with two ADA parking stalls and that of course is at 25 the swimming pool; with the number, was that size for the number of 26 people that are going to be there? The total number? 27 28 Ochoa: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Shipley, those are more of a public parking 29 area intended for the pool house or clubhouse area. There is still the 30 garage parking as well as the (inaudible) parking area behind each unit if 31 you will. As to if that was taken into account for public parking I would not 32 know sir. I'm going to pass that to the applicant. 33 34 Shipley: Okay. I'll let the applicant answer that. But the other question that I had 35 was the street width was cut to 20-feet and if you park a row there, there's 36 no sidewalks, there's I think everybody has to walk in the street basically 37 to go through the addition as you add on to that addition. The second 38 thing that I was concerned about was that there was no second means of 39 egress or ingress to this facility, so if there was ever a catastrophe on the 40 entryway there's ... and someone else had a medical emergency there 41 would be no way to get them out unless you walked in, put them on 42 gurney and then hoisted them on your shoulders and carried them out. 43 And I was concerned with that. I did go look at the property and what 44 you're calling an agricultural area I believe is basically being used as a 45 retention pond. Is that not correct? 46 6 I Ochoa: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Shipley, currently yes it is. 2 3 Shipley: Okay. So there was no means of connecting to the street to the south in 4 other words? 5 6 Ochoa: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Shipley that is correct. I believe when the 7 original master plan was approved that was kind of one of the conditions 8 for approving it was that there was to be no access to Farney Lane 9 because of I believe public opposition for that sir. 10 11 Shipley: Could there not be an emergency access around ... built across there to 12 give them that kind of ... you know with a gate on it that only the police or 13 fire or whatever could have you know keys like they do in many places 14 around here so that there would be a second means of ingress or egress 15 there in case of emergency? 16 17 Ochoa: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Shipley that's something we can definitely 18 take into account. I believe the applicant was in contact with our fire 19 department for all code requirements and I'll defer to them and they can 20 probably answer that a little better than I can sir. 21 22 Shipley: Okay, and the other thing was the parking spaces it states in here that at 23 least this was a part of your Sunset Grove townhouse PUD advanced 24 planning comments, it might've been Carol McCall's comments. 25 26 Ochoa: Yes sir. 27 28 Shipley: With regard to 200 residential parking spaces or four per unit but for the 29 pool you've only got a total of 11 parking places for basically the 50 units. 30 31 Ochoa: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Shipley the way the clubhouse and the 32 parking area, it currently already exists the way it is. I don't know if there 33 is actual any prevention from people just parking at their homes, at their 34 destination and walking to the pool area or to the clubhouse. And I don't 35 know ... I believe there will be some I guess not allowing some on street 36 parking if you will but I'm sure there'll be some areas for that parking. 37 Again the applicant can probably answer that a little better sir. 38 39 Shipley: Okay. When was this completed, the initial four buildings completed? 40 41 Ochoa: I believe that was all completed in 2006 sir. 42 43 Shipley: 2006, so they've had seven years. Have there been any problems there 44 with parking or? 45 46 Ochoa: Mr. Chairman, I'll go ahead and let the applicant answer that sir. 7 1 2 Shipley: All right. 3 4 Crane: Thank you. Any other Commissioner wish to ask any questions of Mr. 5 Ochoa? All right, the applicant is here I believe. Please identify yourself 6 sir and I will swear you in. 7 8 Denton: Commission members, my name's Harold Denton with DVI. I'm the 9 architect, planner. I'm here representing Chisholms, that's the actual 10 owner of the property. 11 12 Crane: Let me swear you in sir. Now we know your name, let me swear you in. 13 Do you swear and affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth 14 and nothing but the truth under penalty of law? 15 16 Denton: I do. 17 18 Crane: Thank you, please proceed. 19 20 Denton: I wanted to introduce Chad Everhart back here with Chisholms, one of the 21 owners of the property also. To address a few of the specifics that you 22 raised; we would be required by codes to have two parking spaces per 23 unit and since the facility is dedicated to those 50 units for use and not a 24 public use, we would not be required to have any parking spaces. So we 25 are well over twice the number of parking spaces that would be required. 26 And since we are providing parking spaces at the clubhouse pool facility 27 we included handicaps there also. Okay. As far as access, again, and we 28 went through reviews on this back in 2006, with the fire department, with 29 all of the city utilities and staff and so forth. We're only required to have 30 one access by code. If we were a residential single-family we would have 31 ... at 50 1 think we go to two, but when it's multi-family I think we can have 32 up to 90, maybe it's 100, but it's just one of those two numbers and so 33 we're well within that requirement. We originally proposed an access out 34 to Farney and we were told by the P&Z and others not to do that access. 35 We didn't. We've had no problems. It works very well. The problem is 36 financing. And that's really why we're here and I want to just say, you 37 know I can give you a whole full presentation again, but I think the short 38 presentation is we're here because we're in a different economy today 39 than we were back in 2006. Financing a condominium today is very very 40 difficult and so really we're using the PUD as a replat if you can look at it 41 that way. It's what we needed to go through to replat this to create fee- 42 simple townhouse units. And they are set up as townhouse units, there 43 are no changes being made. The height change, that's not meant - 1 44 mean that's a typo if you will. We're not raising the height of the units. 1 45 think by the zoning we're allowed quite a bit more, like 40 feet or so, so 46 we're just really pulling it down. But it's the same buildings, it's the same 8 I plan that was proposed and we'll rebuild on those lots. The lots actually 2 are bigger than what would be allowed for townhouses and when you 3 average them and in most instances there are few that are a little under 4 the 2,880 square feet that would be, you know that's required for a 5 townhouse. Most I think we average more like, I don't know, but it's in 6 here, it's 3,000 something. It's a good number. It's a good project. We 7 need to work in the economy that is this today and that's really what we're 8 trying to do. We're not trying to change anything. 9 The field, you're right. It's not pretty today. We need more rain. 10 We need to move a well and get it set up to do some agriculture on there 11 which hasn't been done yet. But it is intended to be agriculture and it will 12 be. Okay. 13 14 Crane: Thank you Mr. Denton. Now don't sit down yet. Anybody have a question 15 for Mr. Denton? Mr. Stowe. 16 17 Stowe: What does it mean agricultural in the context of townhouses? 18 19 Denton: Well we haven't tied down exactly what the crop is. At one point we were 20 thinking about pecan trees but because of the water usage and the 21 drought conditions that we're in, I think today we're thinking of a less 22 intense water use type of crop. A number of things have been suggested. 23 Pat what would you thinking (inaudible) in there. 24 25 Denton: Pat's brother-in-law produces. Excuse me? 26 27 Crane: Could you please repeat what Pat said? Because he wasn't at the mike. 28 29 Denton: Pat said probably rosemary. His brother-in-law grows rosemary 30 commercially and that's one of the things we're looking at doing there and 31 would be a very nice smelling addition to the neighborhood. 32 33 Stowe: But would townhouse owners have a plot of land for their use? 34 35 Denton: Pardon me? 36 37 Stowe: Would townhouse owners have access to the agricultural land? 38 39 Denton: They have use ... they have the right to use the maintenance or walking 40 trails that do surround the property and those trails do go from Farney 41 over to the lateral okay, cause that's where irrigation water comes from to 42 get to the tract of land. But it is a separate piece of property because it's 43 got to be handled like a farm to work. 44 45 Stowe: Right. It sounds like it would be an interesting amenity for townhouse 46 owners to be able not to own but to use a small plot. 9 1 2 Crane: Like an allotment. You have nothing in mind for that, giving a little plot to 3 farm. 4 5 Denton: There was some discussion with the city about that and we talked about 6 making it available if there was some interest but there wasn't when we 7 got into it. It's a kind of difficult thing to make happen, it really is. 8 9 Crane: Mr. Shipley. 10 11 Shipley: How many people reside in the current condominium? 12 13 Denton: The 16 units that are there are fully occupied. 14 15 Shipley: Fully occupied. 16 17 Denton: And the clubhouse was built in that first phase also, so the pool's there, 18 the recreation area, meeting area, and bathrooms, basically what it is. 19 20 Crane: Thank you. Any other Commissioner have a question? Thank you Mr. 21 Denton. 22 23 Denton: Thank you. 24 25 Crane: Any member of the public wish to address this issue, PUD-13-02? In that 26 case I'll close the matter to ... yes. 27 28 Dubbin: Mr. Chairman, point of clarification about the second access and fire. Just 29 for your information the current Fre code allows up to 30 dwelling units 30 with a single point of access or 200 if they are spinklered. So it does not 31 meet the current code. We're aware of this. It's a plan that was 32 developed 10 years ago and it's something that we work with. But just for 33 your information it does not meet the current code. 34 35 Crane: Well Mr. Denton do you want to add to your statement? 36 37 Denton: Well that's 30 single-family lots. Yes it is. Multi-family it's higher than that. 38 It's both in the uniform fire code and in the international building code. 39 40 Dubbin: The code ... 41 42 Crane: Fire department. 43 44 Dubbin: The code calls it dwelling units it doesn't differentiate apartments or 45 houses. Single dwelling units. 46 10 I Denton: So you're overriding the national codes on that? 2 3 Dubbin: I'm not overriding it; it's a plan that was approved 10 years ago. It's not 4 something that would be approved today. We can sprinkler the further 5 developments, but in a case like this we deal with what's there and what 6 the best we can deal with. 7 8 Crane: Are you saying this cannot go ahead as planned? 9 10 Dubbin: It can yes. We did approve it. 11 12 Crane: Okay. 13 14 Dubbin: But just to clarify what the code was. 15 16 Crane: So the changing from co-ops ... from condos to townhouses does not fall 17 over the regulations, there's no change? 18 19 Dubbin: Not in the fire code. 20 21 Crane: Okay. 22 23 Dubbin: We don't oppose the zone change. 24 25 Crane: Thank you. Anyone else wish to address this issue? Okay, so I'll close it 26 to public discussion. Commissioners? We have a motion before 27 effectively to approve this application. 28 29 Shipley: No we don't. We haven't made a motion. 30 31 Stowe: I have a question. 32 33 Crane: All right Mr. Stowe. 34 35 Stowe: Maybe Mr. Ochoa can help. I'm confused whether all of the requirements 36 were met under the DRC? All the different city departments, did they all 37 eventually approve or is there more work that remains to be done? 38 39 Ochoa: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Stowe the DRC does review, if you can read 40 the second sentence there, DRC does review the infrastructure, utilities, 41 and improvement requirements for subdivisions from a technical 42 standpoint so that essentially includes our engineering department, that 43 includes planning of course, utilities, parks, fire is part of that DRC as well, 44 and everybody did vote to approve that. 45 46 Stowe: Traffic. 11 1 2 Ochoa: Traffic as well, yes sir. And as you can see in your packets as well on the 3 back you do have all the reviews that it went though. Basically those 4 technical departments did approve the proposed PUD after just two 5 reviews I believe is what it was. 6 7 Stowe: Right. A number of them had punch lists that required work. That work 8 has been done? 9 10 Ochoa: Essentially yes sir. The final is what is being proposed now. 11 12 Stowe: Thank you. 13 14 Crane: Commissioner Beard. 15 16 Beard: I was going to recommend ... I was going to move to approve PUD-13-02. 17 18 Crane: Okay, do I have a second. 19 20 Beard: With staff recommendations for approval. 21 22 Crane: All right. Is there a second for that? 23 24 Stowe: Second. 25 26 Crane: Seconded by Mr. Stowe. Any further discussion among the 27 Commissioners? Mr. Shipley. 28 29 Shipley: I only had one other question. There was a comment that I read about 30 there was supposed to be a sidewalk along the ...was it Farney and that's 31 1 think what Mr. Stowe was alluding to is that had never been completed. 32 33 Ochoa: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Shipley that sidewalk against Farney was 34 something that they were requesting, but because of again the neighbor 35 back when the master plan was approved and this project was approved 36 the neighborhood actually came against that sidewalk and now that the 37 applicant has actually built a rock wall so close to the curb now if you've 38 gone out there. 39 40 Shipley: Yes. 41 42 Ochoa: A sidewalk would be almost impossible to build right now so that's 43 basically why the sidewalk has been left alone sir. Farney is classified as 44 a collector roadway by the Metropolitan Planning Organization but it is a 45 constrained thoroughfare. So they did ... they took into account that that 12 I roadway is going to stay essentially what's there now is what it's going to 2 be. 3 4 Shipley: Okay. Thank you. 5 6 Ochoa: Yes sir. 7 8 Crane: Okay, Commissioners, anybody want to discuss this further? If not we'll 9 do a roll call vote. Let's start for a change with Mr. Shipley. 10 11 Shipley: I vote aye, findings, discussion, and site visit. 12 13 Crane: Mr. Stowe. 14 15 Stowe: I vote aye, findings, discussion, and site visit. 16 17 Crane: Mr. Alvarado. 18 19 Alvarado: I vote aye, findings and discussion. 20 21 Crane: Mr. Beard. 22 23 Beard: Aye, findings, discussions, and site visit. 24 25 Crane: And the Chair votes aye based on findings, discussion, and site visit. The 26 applicant passes five/zero. Thank you. 27 28 2. Case Z2870: Application by the City of Las Cruces for a rezoning of 8 City- 29 owned parcels from R-4, High-density Multi-family Residential and Limited 30 Retail and Office District, to C-3C, Limited High Intensity Commercial District 31 to support recreational activities, institutional uses such as public safety 32 offices, and City equipment and supply storage activities, and ancillary uses 33 on Parcel ID# 02-19544, 02-19541, 02-19537, 02-19535, 02-28347, 02- 34 28345, 02-28348, 02-28346 for a total of 5.41 acres of land located at 5110 35 Porter Drive and 6221 Reynolds Drive. Council District 6 (Councillor 36 Levatino) 37 38 Crane: We'll go on now to Case Z2870, application by the city for rezoning of 39 some parcels from R-4 to C-3 at 5110 Porter Drive and 6221 Reynolds 40 Drive. And Ms. Montana is standing up there which means she's going to 41 give the introduction. Please continue. Oh my, you have to be sworn. 42 Mr. Ochoa nothing you said was ... nothing you said is any good because 43 1 forgot to swear you. But you look honest. Do you swear and affirm that 44 the testimony you are about to give is the truth and nothing but the truth 45 under penalty of law? 46 13 I Montana: I do. 2 3 Crane: Thank you. 4 5 Montana: Thank you Commissioners. What you have before you is a request for a 6 rezoning. The property, there are eight parcels owned by the city in the 7 East Mesa area, south of 70, east of Porter, and north of Reynolds. 8 These properties are partially used, there are five vacant parcels; one 9 parcel is occupied by a senior center which has food service or a 10 restaurant in the senior center and there is city sponsored, city owned 11 aquatic center, swimming pool. This is an image of the senior center and 12 there, immediately to the north of that is a little park area, a little pocket 13 park and beyond that you can see part of the swimming pool, the fence for 14 the swimming pool. 15 Currently the properties are zoned residential, R-4, medium high 16 density with some limited retail and office use but not the kinds of retail 17 and office use that the senior center would like to engage in. The seniors 18 would like to have more activities, more recreational activities, some 19 educational activities, public safety, sheriffs department and police 20 department, auxiliary office space within that center. Those are the kinds 21 of things that cannot be done under the R-4 zoning. The R-4 allows the 22 swimming pool and the senior center but not these other related activities. 23 The applicant, the city, would like to rezone the property to C-3C, the C 24 being the conditions and in your packet you have the very limited 25 commercial activities that could take place as part of that C, the condition. 26 The city contracted with cafe operator to provide the senior lunches. The 27 city was not in a position to provide that food service to the seniors so they 28 contracted with this operator, however, because it's a separate operator it 29 needs ... it's deemed a restaurant and therefore it needs the C-3 limited 30 zoning. The seniors would also like to offer dancing at the center and this 31 requires oddly a nightclub/with dancing permit which is not allowed in the 32 R-4 and therefore they're seeking the C-3. The city would also like to use 33 the vacant lots for outdoor storage for equipment and materials and that 34 again is not allowed in the current R-4 zoning. 35 We looked at the area around the subject parcels and there is 36 some C-2 commercial limited or general commercial zoning but that didn't 37 fit to extend that to these eight parcels because the C-2 did not allow or 38 does not allow the dancing or some of the other recreational activities that 39 the city would like to sponsor at those eight parcels. So, that brought us 40 back to the C-3, the limited C-3. Based on the findings stated in your staff 41 report, staff does recommend approval of the limited C-3 uses for this 42 property. Your options today are to vote yes to recommend approval of 43 the C-3C zoning to the City Council; to vote to recommend approval with 44 conditions, to vote no to recommend denial; or to vote to table or postpone 45 and direct staff accordingly. And I'm happy to answer any questions you 46 may have. A representative from the city's land management office is 14 I here as well who may be able to answer some of your questions. 2 3 Crane: Thank you Ms. Montana. Mr. Alvarado, your light's on. You want to 4 address us? Okay. Mr. Shipley. 5 6 Shipley: Thank you Ms. Montana. That was very nice. The seventh page of your 7 handout has a policy 32.3 and says regional commercial uses and this to 8 me is high density. I mean it says 75,000 square feet, gross square feet 9 of commercial use etc. Is this an overstatement or ... C-3 is not that size 10 is it? 11 12 Montana: Well yes ... that's correct. This is the only policy in the comprehensive 13 plan that remotely related to this and so we had to present it to you, but 14 there is not a policy in the comprehensive plan. It's a new comprehensive 15 plan just adopted last year that really relates to what the city wants to do 16 with the limited C-3 zoning here. But this is ... I had to present it to you as 17 one of the policies in the comprehensive plan. 18 19 Shipley: Okay. So this is quite a gross overstatement. 20 21 Montana: Yes. Yes that policy is. 22 23 Shipley: Second thing is there's also a note in there that there is a possible replat 24 of the remaining vacant lots into one lot. 25 26 Montana: Well, there is a current application that's been pending for several years; 27 however, I expect that they will amend that current application to create 28 fewer lots than the eight because there are two that are much too small. 29 The C-3 requires a minimum of half acre, so they will adjust the lot lines to 30 create at least the half acres, but there'll probably be some larger parcels 31 as well. 32 33 Shipley: Is the C-3 ... I thought the C-3 was greater than one acre. C-2 was up to 34 one acre isn't it? 35 36 Montana: That's correct, half-acre minimum lot size in C-3. 37 38 Shipley: Okay. 39 40 Montana: And so those two little pieces that were at one time a road right-of-way will 41 have to be combined with the parcels next to it. 42 43 Shipley: Okay. 44 45 Montana: So that we can achieve the minimum half acre. 46 15 I Shipley: Thank you. That's all the questions I have for right now. 2 3 Crane: Any other Commissioner have questions of Ms. Montana? Thank you Ms. 4 Montana. Is the applicant here? Oh the applicant is of course city. 5 Definitely here. 6 7 Montana: Yes. Mr. Hernandez is here if you have any questions of him but ... 8 9 Crane: And his title is again, the land use management? 10 11 Montana: He's with the city's land management and right of way office. 12 13 Crane: Okay. 14 15 Montana: If you have any questions of him, he's available, but he didn't really have a 16 presentation for you tonight. 17 18 Crane: Gentlemen. Thank you Mr. Hernandez for turning up. Any member of the 19 public wish to address this? Yes sir. Please come up and identify 20 yourself and be sworn in. 21 22 Schluter: Good evening. My name is Karl Schluter. I live at 5070 Rising Sun Road, 23 directly across the street from where the rezoning is planned. 24 25 Crane: Okay. Do you swear and affirm that the testimony you are about to give is 26 the truth and nothing but the truth under penalty of law? 27 28 Schluter: I do. 29 30 Crane: Please continue. 31 32 Schluter: My concern is exactly what it is that's going to be put across the street 33 from my house and what impact will it have on the property values of my 34 house, the people across the street from me, and the other houses not 35 only on Reynolds but in that whole neighborhood all the way down one 36 block to Cortez. If it's going to be commercial property that can certainly 37 take away the property values of my house. 38 39 Crane: Well perhaps we can ... Ms. Montana can you help this gentleman, Mr. 40 Schluter. 41 42 Montana: Well let's see if we can find your property. Which one is your property? 43 Right here? Right here? 44 45 Schluter: I'm right on the corner. This is (inaudible). 46 16 I Montana: Here's Rising Sun right here. 2 3 Schluter: Yeah, I'm right on the corner of Reynolds and this is mine right here. 1 4 own these two pieces of property. 5 6 Montana: Okay those two pieces. In the short term those would probably ... the lots 7 right across from you right here. 8 9 Schluter: Yeah. 10 I1 Montana: Would probably be occupied by some vehicle storage, public works, that 12 sort of thing. In the long term it will probably be some sort of play field, 13 recreational activity. 14 15 Schluter: Okay. So basically in the short term, however short or long that may be, 16 the value of my property goes down considerably and that of my 17 neighbors. 18 19 Crane: What are you looking at, at the moment Mr. Schluter? You looking across 20 ... what is that street, Reynolds? 21 22 Schluter: Across Reynolds, yes. 23 24 Crane: At a vacant lot? 25 26 Schluter: Yeah, the vacant lots across Reynolds next to the pool going east. 27 28 Crane: And then beyond that is the frontage road, Bataan Memorial, right? 29 30 Schluter: That's correct. 31 32 Crane: And Ms. Montana if a vehicle yard went up there, would it have opaque 33 fencing around it? 34 35 Montana: Yes it would and be screened. It would be an opaque, couldn't see 36 through it, fence around it, if it were outdoor storage. 37 38 Crane: And that would be city vehicles? 39 40 Montana: City, only city. All of these would be only city activities. 41 42 Crane: Can you tell Mr. Schluter anything that would reassure him about his 43 property values? 44 45 Montana: Well it's really too early at this stage. Land management didn't have any 46 particular plans except for what the senior citizens wanted here. And in 17 I the packet there's a list of activities ... 2 3 Crane: Excuse me. Would you back up? In the packet ... say that please cause 4 you weren't at the mike. 5 6 Montana: In the staff report there's a list of the commercial uses that could take 7 place on those properties, but it's again very theoretical. We just don't 8 know at this time. 9 10 Crane: Why did you say that there will or could be vehicle parking there? 11 12 Montana: That's one of the things that land management suggested that they 13 wanted to do in the short term for these properties that were undeveloped 14 vacant, storage of materials, sometimes gravel, storage of vehicles. They 15 did mention that. 16 17 Crane: Okay, thank you. Mr. Schluter does that at least answer your question? 18 19 Schluter: Well what I see here in retail land uses it makes note of a bar/nightclub on 20 occasional basis. I'm assuming that is where it is the senior center which 21 is down over here. That's not so bad if occasionally there is a dance or a 22 party there. So there doesn't seem to be anything for seniors of which I'm 23 one. And below that on this same list it says transportation, wholesale 24 trade, warehousing and bulk storage land uses. Wholesale trade and 25 warehousing, that's not going to help my property values. 1 just don't think 26 that it's fair that we should be asked or perhaps even forced to accept big 27 cuts in our property value so that the city can use the area across the 28 street from my house to store vehicles and equipment when it seems to 29 me there's an awful lot of land in the East Mesa area that could be used 30 for that, that is not adjacent to a residential area. 31 32 Crane: All right. Thank you Mr. Schluter. Does any member of the Commission 33 want to ask Mr. Schluter any questions? Okay, thank you sir. 34 35 Schluter: Okay. Thank you. 36 37 Crane: Any other member of the public wish to address this issue? Yes sir. 38 Please tell us your name. 39 40 Byers: My name is John Byers and I live in the Hacienda Acres area not in the 41 area that's of concern tonight. 42 43 Crane: Let me swear you in. Do you swear and affirm that the testimony you are 44 about to give is the truth and nothing but the truth under penalty of law? 45 46 Byers: I do. 18 1 2 Crane: Thank you Mr. Byers. Tell us where Hacienda Acres is. 3 4 Byers: Hacienda Acres is the area you're talking about and it extends I think from 5 about Dunn Drive all the way down to Porter Drive and south from there. 1 6 don't know how far south it goes. And I live quite a bit south from there. 7 I'm familiar with the area that you're talking about tonight. I go on my 8 morning walk all the way down that street every morning. Nice quiet area 9 and I was wondering just ... I do just have a couple questions about the 10 storage that you're planning out there. You did mention that there would 11 be some ... 12 13 Crane: Hold up a minute sir. Your mike went off. Mr. Ochoa could you tell the 14 gentlemen in there that the public mike has just gone dead, or does he 15 need to push the red button? 16 17 Byers: Okay. 18 19 Crane: You were speaking of the storage lot. 20 21 Byers: Oh yes. I ... you have stated that you're going to put some screening 22 around it but my concern is also not only what it looks like, we have 23 enough places along that highway that look terrible because of junk and 24 everything is stored there. Doesn't make a good impression to visitors 25 and for people living out there it does devalue their properties. But my 26 concern also is the noise created by all this equipment you're going to be 27 firing up probably every day to the neighbors in that area. And also the 28 wear and tear on the already crumbing roads that are in the entire area. If 29 anything has been done to any consideration for that, that's being done. 30 31 Crane: Thank you Mr. Byers. Hold up just a minute. Anybody have any 32 questions of Mr. Byers? Okay, thank you Mr. Byers. Any other member 33 of the public? Okay then I'll close the matter to discussion. 34 Commissioners I'll entertain a motion that ... I'll entertain a motion. 1 35 would like to suggest ... no, I'll rescind my suggestion. May I have a 36 motion? 37 38 Beard: Discussion? 39 40 Crane: Got to have a motion first. Then we can discuss. 41 42 Beard: Beg your pardon? 43 44 Crane: Then we can discuss. 45 46 Beard: Okay. 19 1 2 Crane: Move that we approve (inaudible). 3 4 Beard: Okay. 5 6 Shipley: Point of order. 7 8 Crane: Yes sir. 9 10 Shipley: We can have discussion. I mean if there's questions that we need 11 answered before we make a motion we might want to make some 12 amendment to the motion or some condition. 13 14 Crane: That's what I had in mind, but still, okay, let's do it. 15 16 Shipley: Why don't we have discussion? 17 18 Crane: Discussion. Yeah. Well since I've got the mike I have some sympathy for 19 the concerns of Mr. Schluter and Mr. Byers and I would like the 20 commission to consider motion to approve with the condition that the city 21 erect only permanent buildings or use these lots only for permanent 22 buildings at the very outset rather than have them for some temporary use 23 that would not be very beneficial to the neighbors. Personally I would ... 24 don't like looking at a dirt lot followed by a frontage road and then a major 25 highway, but that would be preferable to chain link fence with plastic strips 26 threaded into it and construction equipment visible over the top. And there 27 are a number of them in my neighborhood, so is that one of the things 28 that's on your mind? Mr. Beard. 29 30 Beard: I think that's a pretty good idea. I would also not exclude communication 31 structures though, whether it be for the police or whether it's 32 communications for cell phones. It's the very last items, utility land uses. 33 34 Crane: I'm sorry you said you would also seek to exclude those? 35 36 Beard: I would include it with your permanent buildings. 37 38 Crane: So they may put up communication towers? 39 40 Beard: Yes, I would want. 41 42 Shipley: Mr. Chairman there is a cellular tower about 100 yards on the other side of 43 Porter Road that's about ... it's a huge one. So, that's the cell site there. 44 You don't want to have another one in 100 yards. 45 46 Beard: Well I was thinking maybe that the police or city type communications. 1 20 I didn't want to go through the same process of trying to find a location for a 2 tower that we have done before you know. 3 4 Shipley: But the tower requires a special use permit no matter where it is, so you 5 can't really ... you can't ... there's no sense in changing it because if 6 they're going to come in with that location they're going to have to request 7 a special use permit to get the tower there anyhow. 8 9 Beard: That's true but are we eliminating it if we only put down permanent 10 structure. 11 12 Shipley: They can always come back and ask for a variance. 13 14 Montana: Mr. Chair that would be not a variance that would have to be a rezoning or 15 an amendment to this zoning condition. Also I want to bring to your 16 attention that limiting it to permanent buildings would not allow playfields 17 or recreational fields, developed fields. 18 19 Crane: Perhaps we can simply word it the opposite way and specifically eliminate 20 parking for commercial and municipal vehicles, but I suspect that that 21 would let in a number of things that Mr. Schluter would ... and his 22 neighbors would probably not like. But would that be easier to handle Ms. 23 Montana? 24 25 Montana: Well if that were the land use that this Commission objects to specifically 26 you could eliminate that ... the bus terminal and commercial parking 27 facilities and outdoor storage. You could. 28 29 Crane: Commercial parking facilities being, what like a parking lot that you 30 (inaudible). 31 32 Montana: Yes, parking lot or the bus terminal if you see on the land uses. 33 34 Shipley: But Mr. Chairman. 35 36 Crane: Yes. Mr. Shipley. 37 38 Shipley: The bus terminal is not permitted. 39 40 Montana: It is included in the list of uses that they would allow in the C-3. Under 41 transportation, wholesale trade, warehousing, and bulk storage land uses, 42 bus terminal and parking facilities. And then on the back storage outside 43 of materials, equipment and supplies. So you may want to recommend to 44 the Council that they eliminate those uses. 45 46 Shipley: Question. 21 1 2 Crane: Yes, Mr. Shipley. 3 4 Shipley: Ms. Montana I don't have the list that you're holding up. 5 6 Montana: It's ... 7 8 Shipley: On the back. 9 10 Crane: In the back, page one on the back. 11 12 Montana: It's in the applicant attachment four. 13 14 Crane: Mr. Schluter do you have that document there? You probably don't. Is 15 there some way we can get him one because I ... feeling it's not going to 16 work to explicitly eliminate one allowed use. 17 18 Montana: The list Commission, on the first page as of ... land uses allowed at the 19 bottom there's transportation, wholesale trade, warehousing and bulk 20 storage land uses, which includes the bus terminal and parking facilities, 21 commercial. And then land uses allowed with conditions on the back page 22 is the transportation, wholesale trade, warehousing, and bulk storage land 23 uses which is the outdoor storage. So those are ... 24 25 Crane: I'm sorry; I'm looking for the second item you just mentioned. 26 27 Montana: On page two of that C-3 list. 28 29 Crane: Yeah. 30 31 Montana: The second list. 32 33 Crane: Oh yes, the heading, right storage outside of buildings of materials, 34 equipment. 35 36 Montana: Yeah. 37 38 Crane: And not for sale. Manufacturing and related land uses, construction yard 39 or buildings, temporary, below that. I could see all those things being 40 potentially ugly and I am interested in seeing how we could meet Mr. 41 Schluter's objections which I understand and I think perhaps some of my 42 fellow Commissioners do. Without micromanaging the allowed land uses 43 for C-3. There may not be a way out of this other than to micromanage. 44 What (inaudible) Ms. Montana, while he's looking at that. 45 46 Montana: Well you could recommend to Council that they strike those three 22 I categories. 2 3 Crane: So it would be transportation, wholesale trade, warehousing and bulk 4 storage on page one. 5 6 Montana: Yeah. 7 8 Crane: And similar adding on page two. 9 10 Montana: And the manufacturing and related ... 11 12 Crane: Related land uses. 13 14 Montana: Land uses. Correct. 15 16 Crane: Okay. 17 18 Beard: There's other things I would like to strike out. 19 20 Crane: Okay. Let's see what Mr. Schluter's (inaudible). Mr. Ochoa can you 21 speak for Mr. Schluter? Maybe I should bring him up date. Okay, so far 22 Mr. Schluter we got to the point and I'm also addressing Mr. Byers, of 23 considering taking out the transportation, wholesale trade, warehousing 24 and bulk storage land uses, which appears two places, on page one and 25 page two; and on page two manufacturing and related land uses. If those 26 came out would you be in favor of the application? You better come up 27 and talk to us. 28 29 Beard: I would actually suggest the retail land uses also, that very first one on that 30 second page. 31 32 Crane: The flea market. All right. 33 34 Beard: That's you know, flea markets and seasonal sales type of thing. 35 36 Crane: Okay, let's say that too. So that's four items. Retail land uses, flea market 37 etc. that's on the top of page two. Now if we took out those four or 38 recommended to the Council we take out those four how would you feel? 39 40 Schluter: I would feel better. 41 42 Crane: Would you feel upset if the Commission voted in favor of the application 43 with those four removed? 44 45 Schluter: Well it's just what I would like to see and the neighbors would like to see 46 would be a nice park over there. 23 1 2 Crane: Part of it is parks are permitted. 3 4 Schluter: Yeah. There was ... there had been talk for quite some time about a 5 satellite police station but I believe it was going to be where the recreation 6 center has been as part of the firehouse building which I think is a great 7 idea. And expanding on the senior citizen's center or multigenerational 8 center is also a good idea. If they were to use this land that they're talking 9 about and put in maybe a baseball field and basketball courts for the kids 10 of the neighborhood of which there are quite a few, that would kind of 11 expand the whole idea of the swimming pool, the recreation center and all. 12 And what I didn't say before is that I just today learned that down on the 13 end of Reynolds close to Dunn there's another field down there that looks 14 like it has been prepared, it's not completed, for the very purpose that 15 they're talking about using for storage across from my house and so why 16 two? 17 18 Crane: Do you know anything about that Ms. Montana? Is that city property? 19 20 Montana: No, I'm not aware of that property. 21 22 Crane: All right, thank you Mr. Schluter. 23 24 Schluter: Okay. Thank you. 25 26 Crane: Mr. Byers you have any comment? Don't have to say anything if you don't 27 want to. You better come up. 28 29 Beard: We're taking out the transportation on the first page. On the second page 30 we're taking out the first three. 31 32 Crane: Retail land uses, transportation, and manufacturing related uses. And 1 33 think ... yeah. 34 35 Byers: I, like Mr. Schluter would feel a lot better about it and his comments about 36 a park would be much more agreeable to me and him and probably all the 37 neighbors in that area. This would help. 38 39 Crane: Thank you sir. 40 41 Byers: Thank you. 42 43 Crane: Any other members of the public wish to comment? Okay, closed to 44 discussion. Mr. Shipley. 45 46 Shipley: Ms. Montana. Access to this would be from the street, not from the 24 I Bataan Memorial, is that correct? 2 3 Montana: That is correct. 4 5 Shipley: Okay. Thank you. 6 7 Crane: All right. Let me see, we had ... did you ... no we don't have a motion yet. 8 Mr. Shipley would you like to move. 9 10 Shipley: I make a motion to approve Case Z2870 with the following condition, or 11 conditions, it's one condition but it'll be four items, that transportation, 12 wholesale trade, warehousing and bulk storage land uses not be included 13 nor retail land uses on page two of that list, nor transportation, wholesale 14 trade, warehousing and bulk storage land uses, and the last one would be 15 manufacturing and related land uses would not be a part of this 16 recommendation. 17 18 Crane: Thank you is there a second for that motion? 19 20 Beard: I second it. 21 22 Crane: Any discussion? In that case we'll start with roll call on ... with Mr. Beard. 23 24 Beard: I vote aye based on discussions and site visit. 25 26 Crane: Mr. Alvarado. 27 28 Alvarado: Vote aye based on discussion. 29 30 Crane: Mr. Stowe. 31 32 Stowe: I vote aye based on discussions. 33 34 Crane: Mr. Shipley. 35 36 Shipley: I vote aye based on discussion and site visit. 37 38 Crane: And the Chair votes aye based on discussions and findings. That passes 39 five/zero. Thank you gentlemen. 40 41 VII. OTHER BUSINESS 42 43 Crane: And is there any other business? 44 45 Montana: Yes Mr. Chair. There is a staff announcement and I'm happy to present 46 that to you after you ask if there's any public participation. 25 1 2 VIII. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 3 4 Crane: Okay. Any public participation, not necessarily related to the two items we 5 discussed? Okay, nobody signifies there is. 6 7 IX. STAFF ANNOUNCEMENTS 8 9 1. Vistas Blueprint Kickoff 10 11 Crane: And so we will go to staff announcements. 12 13 Montana: Thank you Mr. Chair, Commissioners. I put on the dais in front of your 14 chair a little handout about the community ... the Vistas Blueprint. I don't 15 have a slide show about this, but the packet does show a little map in the 16 east, way East Mesa. There's about 6,000 acres which is about four mile 17 by four mile area of desert land, raw land that is owned by ... a little tiny 18 piece is owned by the city, some land owned by the Bureau of Land 19 Management, most of it's owned by the State Lands Office. The State 20 Lands Office has asked the city to conduct a blueprint which is an area 21 planning effort for what this ... what we're calling the Vistas. So this is the 22 Vistas Blueprint. We had a kick off meeting last Thursday, the 20th at the 23 East Mesa Dona Ana College campus and there are about 50 people who 24 attended this, Commissioner Beard being one of them, to begin imagining 25 what land uses, what densities, what roads, transportation systems, all the 26 planning activities could take place in this 6,000 acres of land. This effort 27 has a website that you can review, lascruces.org/vistas and then go to 28 blueprint, and that page is in your packet here. And then you can take a 29 little survey. What is your vision? What kinds of things would you like to 30 see take place in this 6,000 acres? The last part of the handout is sort of 31 a summary of some of the groups that partook of that planning session 32 last week and some of things they looked at. A lot of them wanted mixed 33 use development, very sustainable development, green development. 34 They're conscious of water conservation. They're conscious of being able 35 to have communities where you can walk around from the residential to 36 commercial and back, recreation activities, and that sort of thing. So that 37 was the first step of this Vistas planning effort, joint effort with the State 38 Lands Office. The next meeting will be a design meeting, getting down to 39 a little more detail than the visioning and that would be some time, a 40 meeting sometime in May. And we certainly would enjoy your 41 participation in this effort. And I'm happy to answer any question, 42 although Commissioner Beard was at the meeting and he could probably 43 answer your questions as well. 44 45 Crane: Thank you Ms. Montana, any questions for Ms. Montana or for 46 Commissioner Beard? Gentlemen have their lights on. Mr. Shipley. Your 26 I light's on? 2 3 Shipley: Oh, excuse me. 4 5 Crane: Okay. No questions for either our authorities here? You have a statement 6 to make Mr. Beard. No is a statement. 7 8 Beard: To tell you the truth when we really dug into what this could be applied to it 9 became very general, very wide. You can do almost anything and so you 10 sort of have to figure out what you're simplified goal is and I don't know 11 that we did that. I think for the most part we came up with things like this 12 was going to be another small city, have all the resources and the 13 capabilities of a small city and try to keep away any of the bad things that 14 you might have in an old city. 15 16 Crane: Thank you. Thank you Ms. Montana. 17 18 X. ADJOURNMENT (7:12) 19 20 Crane: If no other business then we stand adjourned at 12 after seven. Thank 21 you. 22 23 24 25 ^ 26 27 28 29 Chairperson ', 30 J 31 27