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05-15-2014 1 SOUTH MESQUITE DESIGN REVIEW BOARD 2 May 15, 2014 at 6:00 p.m. MINUTES 3 4 Following are verbatim minutes of the South Mesquite Design Review Board meeting 5 held May 15, 2014 in 2007-A, City Hall, 700 N. Main Street, Las Cruces, NM 88001. 6 7 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: Faith Hutson 8 David Chavez 9 Barbara Kuhns 10 11 MEMBERS ABSENT: Robert Williams 12 Heather Barrett 13 14 STAFF PRESENT: Susana Montana, CLC Planner 15 Becky Baum, RC Creations, LLC, Recording Sec. 16 17 I. CALL TO ORDER (6:03) 18 19 Hutson: Well let's call this meeting to order at 6:25. 20 21 Montana: I have a request for an amendment to the agenda. 22 23 Kuhns: Do we need to do the approval of the minutes from the April meeting first? 24 25 Montana: It doesn't matter to me. 26 27 Chavez: It doesn't matter cause it's on the agenda. 28 29 Hutson: Well, I think first of all we do ... we should modify the agenda. I think 30 that's typically how it works is that we modify the agenda. Since the Case 31 14-01 is going to be postponed until June. 32 33 Montana: Well that's the request, if this Board is in agreement to postpone Case 34 number SMO-14-01 to date certain June 19th, I believe. 35 36 Hutson: Yes. 37 38 Chavez: Yes. 39 40 Hutson: It would be the 19th. 41 42 Montana: Because the applicant is out of town and will be in town on that date. All 43 in agreement? 44 45 ALL: AYE. 46 1 1 Montana: Okay, good, so what I'll do is I'll change the date on the big yellow poster 2 that's posted on the property. 3 4 Hutson: Great. 5 6 Montana: My second request is to add under discussion of other items a request for 7 ... well it's a courtesy or informational courtesy presentation by myself on 8 behalf of the City Cultural Affairs Department for flexible development 9 standard waiver for zero setback at the East Side Community Center. So 10 1 want to make that presentation. It's not a permit yet, but it is a request 11 for a flex and I'll explain what that is when we get to our old business. 12 13 Chavez: May I ask a question? When were you going to do this meeting? 14 15 Montana: Which meeting? 16 17 Chavez: I mean when ... the one, East Side. 18 19 Montana: Discussion of other items. 20 21 Chavez: Oh, okay. 22 23 Montana: Item number five. 24 25 Chavez: Okay. 26 27 Montana: And it's possible that I'll use that request as an example for what a flexible 28 development standard waiver is under our old business, so I might 29 combine those. So that's the second request. 30 31 Hutson: Okay. All right, so we're in favor of adding that on? 32 33 Kuhns: Sure. 34 35 Chavez: Yes. 36 37 Hutson: Okay. 38 39 It. APPROVAL OF MINUTES -April 17, 2014 40 41 Hutson: All right, so let's move on to approval of the minutes from April 17th, 2014. 42 43 Chavez: So moved. 44 45 Hutson: Okay we have a motion by David. 46 2 1 Kuhns: I'll second it. 2 3 Hutson: All right we have a second by Barbara. Any discussion on that? Anybody 4 see any typos, anything like that? All right, so minutes are approved as is. 5 6 Chavez: If I may, Susana's comment on the meeting that she would like to have at 7 East Side, in reference to her comment. Miguel Silva's having a 8 neighborhood community meeting, let me think ... we'll it's coming up. By 9 June ... you got the e-mail didn't you? 10 11 Hutson: I don't know. The one that he was supposed to have about Klein Park is 12 canceled. That was supposed to be this next Wednesday I believe. 13 14 Chavez: Okay, well then I retract. 15 16 Montana: Yeah last month we talked about our neighborhood meeting about ... to 17 present the rezoning and we were going to have a daytime meeting 18 August I think it's 13th or 15th at the East Side Community Center. So 19 when we get a little closer I'll confirm that. We were going to have a 20 nighttime meeting the following Wednesday at Weed and Seed. So, again 21 when we get closer ... we didn't want to have it during the summer cause 22 people travel, students are out, you know college students are out, that 23 sort of thing. 24 25 Chavez: Makes sense. 26 27 Montana: So we thought August would be a good time. 28 29 III. NEW BUSINESS 30 31 1. Case SMO-14-01: Request to construct a 480 square foot (sf) addition to an 32 845 sf home located at 428 N. San Pedro Street, Parcel No. 02-06165, within 33 the original Townsite and the South Mesquite R-3 High Density Residential 34 Overlay District. Mona Garcia, property owner, Dan Garcia and Steve 35 Calderazzo, representatives. POSTPONED TO JUNE 19, 2014 MEETING. 36 37 IV. OLD BUSINESS - NONE 38 39 1. A discussion of potential proposed amendments to the Municipal Code, 40 Article V, Section 38-49.2 South Mesquite Neighborhood Overlay Zone 41 District to enact text changes which represent substantive changes to the 42 overlay district zoning regulations. 43 44 Montana: Okay, old business. 45 46 Hutson: Old business. 3 1 2 Montana: So I sent you a revised copy both annotated that shows all the corrections 3 that we made to date on the overlay zoning regulations and a clean copy. 4 And tonight we were going to look at the land use table. And this land use 5 table is a compilation of all the discussions about what land use is we 6 want for each of the South Mesquite Zoning Districts since November of 7 last year. So there are some things that are shaded on your copy that 1 8 had questions about, but other than that just wanted to see if this reflected 9 what you recall or what you wrote down in your notes about what we 10 wanted for the district. 11 12 Chavez: Well, that's right, I remember that. 13 14 Montana: Yes somethings during the meetings, we said on well we'll have to decide 15 later, so this is the time to try to make those decisions. 16 17 Hutson: Okay Susana get me up to speed here. 18 19 Montana: So we're looking at this ... 20 21 Hutson: Right. 22 23 Montana: Eleven by seventeen. 24 25 Hutson: Right. 26 27 Montana: Table. 28 29 Hutson: And that correlates with what we went through on this document, correct? 30 31 Montana: Yeah. Yes. 32 33 Hutson: So we're starting with this 38-338, where is that on this original? 34 35 Montana: Thirty-eight dash 33A? 36 37 Hutson: Yeah, residential land uses. That doesn't break down. That doesn't 38 equate does it? 39 40 Montana: Oh let me see if I brought my copy of that. 41 42 Hutson: Do you know which one I'm talking about David? This one that we were 43 going through. 44 45 Chavez: Yeah I remember when we went through that ... 46 4 1 Hutson: Do you have yours by any chance? 2 3 Chavez: No, I didn't bring my book. 4 5 Hutson: Okay. 6 7 Chavez: But I do remember when we went through it. 8 9 Hutson: Yeah it just would be helpful if you scribbled any notes along with that too. 10 11 Chavez: Well what I do remember about the halfway house, at the time in 12 November was the issue that was going on in Mesilla Park where those 13 four women, do you remember? 14 15 Hutson: Oh yeah. 16 17 Chavez: And we decided that that wasn't going to happen to this ... in this 18 neighborhood and that we would allow it. 19 20 Hutson: Yes I remember that discussion. 21 22 Montana: No I can't compare those. 23 24 Hutson: Okay. 25 26 Montana: Tonight. 27 28 Hutson: That's okay, we'll just ... 29 30 Chavez: But all that information ... I mean all that information was taken off of that 31 document when we did it. 32 33 Montana: Yeah. 34 35 Chavez: Okay. 36 37 Montana: That document. 38 39 Chavez: Cause we sat together. 40 41 Montana: And our notes. 42 43 Chavez: And (inaudible). 44 5 1 Montana: And I looked at all the minutes from all the meetings that we discussed 2 this since last November and that's how I created this document, the 11 x 3 17 document. 4 5 Hutson: Okay, well David is right, we did talk a lot about that ... 6 7 Chavez: That issue at the time. 8 9 Hutson: Right, halfway house. I remember too Carol I think was going to get 10 definition of homeless shelter cause that was ... that's something else too 11 that we were questioning. I'm not sure if that particular writing is 12 anywhere in this document as well, the use of that. But we ... the 13 consensus as I recall ... right, on the next page ... 14 15 Kuhns: Well all this is saying is it's a special use permit. 16 17 Hutson: She just said that when it was in grey though she had some questions. 18 19 Kuhns: Right. 20 21 Hutson: On that. Right. 22 23 Montana: So on page Roman numeral IV-47, homeless shelter. We're defining it as 24 10 or fewer residents served or allowed and it's allowed in all residential 25 districts. That's the condition, that it's 10 or fewer. 26 27 Chavez: Okay. 28 29 Montana: More than 10 allowed only in the R-4 and commercial zoning districts. 30 31 Chavez: Okay. 32 33 Hutson: So what was your question on halfway house on the first page? 34 35 Montana: Well I just want to get confirmation that you know that it would be a special 36 use district in all the South Mesquite subdistricts. Special use district goes 37 to the Planning and Zoning Commission for approval. 38 39 Hutson: What about conditional, what's the difference in this particular use? 40 41 Montana: Well a conditional would mean it doesn't go to the Planning and Zoning 42 Commission, that the condition is that it be on a major street or that there's 43 a limit on the number, for example 10 or fewer. 44 45 Hutson: Well I was just wondering why under halfway house we have it as a 46 special use and then temporary homeless shelter's conditional. 6 1 2 Kuhns: Because of that zoning ordinance would (inaudible) because it's already 3 allowed in all residential zoning districts. 4 5 Montana: Well no this is particular to South Mesquite. So we can change this. 6 7 Kuhns: I thought you meant in all zoning districts, you meant all districts 8 throughout the city. 9 10 Montana: No. 11 12 Hutson: No. 13 14 Montana: This is just ... 15 16 Kuhns: Okay. 17 18 Montana: All of this is just for South Mesquite. 19 20 Kuhns: All right. 21 22 Montana: So if you want to treat halfway houses and homeless shelters the same 23 we can. And we can make them both special use or both conditional. 24 25 Kuhns: Well what I like about the special use is that the neighborhood then gets 26 an opportunity to say something. 27 28 Montana: It's a public hearing. 29 30 Kuhns: Right. 31 32 Montana: They get a letter notice, well the property owners do, there's a big yellow 33 sign on the property, and there is public comment at Planning 34 Commission. Whereas conditional use, if they meet the conditions you 35 know they get a permit. 36 37 Chavez: The reason I think we had the conversation we had in November is that 38 they did have a public input meeting in Mesilla Park. 39 40 Hutson: Park. 41 42 Chavez: And it turned out to be fighting at City Hall. It was a horrible horrible 43 experience and it should never have happened, cause they didn't have the 44 facts. And the neighbors made up all the stories about what was going on 45 so that's why we thought, have it where it's not a special permit, that if it 46 follows the regulations and all the stuff that goes on in the Mesquite area 7 1 that it could go in. But that was at the time because ... I was at that 2 meeting. I've never seen police pulling back people from fighting at City 3 Hall at a council meeting. And that meeting was just ... it was just a 4 display of ... it was horrible. So when we ... in November it had just 5 finished and this came up and I think the folks that were here, we 6 discussed it thoroughly that we wanted it to go ... you know if it met all the 7 requirements that (inaudible) a special permit. I could be wrong or I might 8 be overstepping my bounds but at the time we weren't going to permit that 9 to happen in our district. 10 11 Montana: Well I have ... I have done halfway houses in this city and on one 12 occasion the applicants sought to locate in this neighborhood. We did the 13 neighborhood letters. The neighbors had a fit. The applicant did an open 14 house. The neighbors attended that open house and said we're going to 15 harass you every day of your life. So the applicant said wait, I back off. 16 They went to another neighborhood. And I did the neighborhood notice, 17 they had an open house, that neighborhood embraced them. And they 18 got their permit. So, a lot of it depends on your neighbors. 19 20 Kuhns: That's why I like the idea of having ... having a public meeting where the 21 neighbors have an opportunity to say what ... how they feel about it in 22 public stating their name and if ... one idea that I have is we might want to 23 wait for Robert and Heather and have five weigh in on this. 24 25 Montana: Okay. 26 27 Kuhns: It seems like it's a big issue. 28 29 Montana: Yeah. All right. 30 31 Chavez: I think at the time it was rather emotional. 32 33 Montana: Yeah. 34 35 Chavez: And it was all over the paper and it turned out that the four ladies ... I think 36 it was four ladies. 37 38 Hutson: It was only four. 39 40 Chavez: It was only four and there was really nothing, and actually one of them had 41 a degree and all of them had jobs and ... but it was the neighborhood that 42 just became so ugly with the lack of facts. 43 44 Montana: In that case, Barbara if you don't know, the city purchased the house from 45 foreclosure. 46 8 1 Hutson: Yeah. 2 3 Montana: And put a sign that says, housing rehab. And the neighbors thought the 4 residents would be ... it would be rehab house, when actually the nonprofit 5 was renting ... was buying the house, leasing the house from the city just 6 to rent out to roommates. It wasn't a halfway house. 7 8 Hutson: Right. 9 10 Montana: But the neighbors had a fit. And that can happen,just like ... 11 12 Kuhns: Well I like the idea that that organization you just referred to did go to a 13 neighborhood in which they embraced them. 14 15 Montana: Yeah. 16 17 Kuhns: And it's nice to know that and it's nice to give people that opportunity. But 18 I'm wondering if we don't want to have two more people weigh in on this. 19 20 Hutson: I think we should. 21 22 Montana: Yeah. 23 24 Chavez: I think you're right. 25 26 Hutson: I think we should on this one. 27 28 Montana: So ... 29 30 Hutson: I don't think we should be making a decision on that. 31 32 Chavez: I agree. 33 34 Montana: We'll defer to full Board for both halfway house and homeless shelter. 35 Okay. Now on page 48 we had youth hostel we weren't sure about. And 36 in this case we made it conditional in the higher intensity residential, R-4 37 districts and the commercials, office-1, office-2 and C-1 and C-2. And the 38 condition is no more than 10 persons per hostel. 39 40 Chavez: Do any of these exist in the city? 41 42 Montana: Not that I know of. 43 44 Kuhns: It could change though. 45 46 Hutson: Right, that's ... it can always happen. 9 1 2 Montana: Yeah. You know the alternative is that we prohibit them, we just don't 3 have them as a line item. If we don't have it as a line item they can't be 4 located here. 5 6 Kuhns: Well I think personally that lodging is changing with (inaudible) vacation 7 rental by owners, and a youth hostel isn't necessarily a flophouse, 8 especially if you've been to Europe. 9 10 Chavez: Yeah. 11 12 Kuhns: And you look at that model. 13 14 Chavez: Sure. 15 16 Kuhns: I mean I stay in hostels. 17 18 Hutson: Well then I would agree with Barbara and I don't think that we should ... 1 19 think it should be conditional, but maybe we should change the wording on 20 it too and not call it youth hostel, but maybe hostel or even ... 21 22 Montana: Yes. 23 24 Kuhns: I like just hostel. 25 26 Hutson: Or something. 27 28 Chavez: Yeah hostel because youth (inaudible) gets. 29 30 Kuhns: That is a common lodging term in Europe, just hostel. 31 32 Montana: Just hostel. Know when I've been to hostels there was a day maximum 33 stay. In other words you couldn't stay more than seven days, otherwise it 34 would be like a boarding house. So maybe we could have some kind of 35 limitation like that. 36 37 Kuhns: Right. 38 39 Chavez: Well if we take Europe's model of a hostel and if they have it for seven 40 days and it's working for them then why reinvent the wheel and use their 41 model for a hostel if it comes down to it that we have here, just remove the 42 youth part. 43 44 Montana: Yeah. 45 46 Chavez: Cause I've stayed twice when I've been up there and they're fine. 10 1 2 Montana: Did you stay for more than a week? 3 4 Chavez: Five days I remember the longest. But I think there was a limit. I can't 5 remember, but I think it was seven days, but it was a limit. 6 7 Montana: Yeah. 8 9 Hutson: Well then we might even consider maybe two weeks because what if 10 somebody wanted to be here for like a week and a half or something. 11 Something to consider like say maybe a max or two weeks or something. 12 13 Montana: Okay. I'll put that down and then we can talk about it later. Max two 14 weeks, first stay two weeks continuous. 15 16 Hutson: Right. 17 18 Montana: Stay for guest. All right. Let's see ... now page 51 1 had a question and 19 maybe I should bring this up again when Heather is here because Heather 20 had the most to say about recreational courts. 21 22 Chavez: Yeah she did. 23 24 Hutson: She was more animate than the rest of us. 25 26 Montana: All right, why don't we hold off until we get Heather here? Heather, 27 Barbara for your information, I don't know, maybe you know, Heather lives 28 next to a tennis court and there are night-lights that are disturbing. 29 30 Kuhns: Well then I just read today in the New York Times that pickle ball, a lot of 31 tennis courts are being converted to pickle ball and when you hit the ball 32 with the racquet it makes a thump, like a kid hitting a basketball against a 33 garage, and the courts are ruling in favor of the parks, not in favor of the 34 neighbors. But the neighbors are complaining about that noise. 35 36 Hutson: Oh I bet. 37 38 Kuhns: And pickle ball is growing in this city. 39 40 Montana: What do they pick? What ball are they picking? 41 42 Kuhns: It's a Wiffle type ball and it's a pretty firm racquet that's a little bit bigger 43 than a ping-pong paddle and smaller than a tennis racquet. 44 45 Montana: Okay. 46 11 1 Kuhns: And they play at Meerscheidt and also at the tennis courts at Apodaca 2 Park. But ... 3 4 Chavez: Is this something that's similar to tennis and badminton or? 5 6 Kuhns: Well it's a little bit easier on your joints than tennis. 7 8 Montana: Oh. 9 10 Hutson: Hence the popularity. 11 12 Chavez: The popularity. Okay. 13 14 Montana: All right, so we will defer until Heather's here. 15 16 Chavez: Something on 53. 17 18 Montana: Yes. Now convention center, exhibition hall, you thought that would be a 19 good use. The condition ... the standard condition is that it must be in a 20 local or higher classification road. All our roads are at least locals so. Do 21 we care ... do we want to be on ... do we care ... do we want it to be on a 22 collector like Mesquite or an arterial like ...? 23 24 Chavez: Amador or Lohman. 25 26 Montana: Yeah. 27 28 Kuhns: Well I think it would be very distracting if it was on a street the size of 29 Mesquite. I think it would have to be on a major ... 30 31 Chavez: If it was on a feeder like Amador and Lohman I don't see a problem. 32 33 Montana: Okay. 34 35 Chavez: Cause the road can handle the traffic and ... 36 37 Montana: Okay. 38 39 Hutson: Right, because parking's also going to be an issue with that, people 40 getting in and out of small streets like that. 41 42 Montana: Yeah. So, why don't we say it must at least have frontage or access from 43 an arterial? 44 45 Chavez: Yes. 46 12 1 Montana: Okay. Access, cause maybe a side street would be a minor but we 2 wouldn't allow it to access from there. From an arterial, which would be 3 Lohman or Amador. Now do you care to limit the square footage? 1 4 believe we talked about 5,000 gross floor area, 5,000 square feet, but 5 that's pretty small. 6 7 Chavez: Sorry about that. 8 9 Hutson: I'm trying to remember what our discussion was. We were I think if I 10 remember right in favor of it being on the smaller side. 11 12 Kuhns: I would think that ... 13 14 Hutson: I don't remember exactly. 15 16 Kuhns: It would naturally be limited. 17 18 Montana: Naturally right cause our parcels are so small. 19 20 Kuhns: Yeah. 21 22 Chavez: I mean the only way they could ... 23 24 Kuhns: There's just not really much ... 25 26 Chavez: Space. The only thing that would be bigger if ... 27 28 Hutson: There are some bigger lots though. If they were to build on one of those 29 lots they could do a bigger place. 30 31 Chavez: And if somebody wanted to build on Lohman or Amador. 32 33 Montana: Yeah. 34 35 Chavez: There are some places that if they bought enough structures to tear down 36 to build a facility that big it's possible to be ... to do even a 10,000 square 37 foot place. 38 39 Hutson: Right. 40 41 Chavez: On those two business streets I don't see a problem at all because I think 42 they're just maybe a minute few residential houses on those two streets 43 mixed in with all the businesses though it doesn't really ... 44 45 Montana: Yeah. So we can limit it to Lohman and Amador. 46 13 I Chavez: Okay. 2 3 Montana: Without a size limit. 4 5 Hutson: We could do that. What about Campo, would that be another one that 6 people might? 7 8 Chavez: Campo has a lot of residential. 9 10 Montana: Yeah. 11 12 Kuhns: And it's really not big enough to handle ... it doesn't have ... 13 14 Chavez: And basically more of a government row. 15 16 Kuhns: Well it has a lot of crosswalks, it has a lot of pedestrian traffic. 17 18 Hutson: I'm just trying to think about what people might want to push, so ... that we 19 should stick to this size limit period with the exception of Lohman and 20 Amador. 21 22 Montana: Well we ... well Lohman and Amador are the only arterials. 23 24 Chavez: Yeah. 25 26 Montana: So we're only going to allow them to have ... if they had frontage on 27 Lohman. 28 29 Hutson: Only those two. 30 31 Chavez: Yeah. 32 33 Montana: Yeah. 34 35 Chavez: Campo and Mesquite are in the same category. 36 37 Hutson: I would think so but it's amazing the traffic flow (inaudible). 38 39 Chavez: But if you were to put Campo you would be tearing down a lot of historic 40 buildings. 41 42 Hutson: ( know. 43 44 Chavez: So on Lohman and Amador ... so there's maybe one or two historic 45 buildings left on Lohman. And then maybe on Amador but the rest of 46 them ... 14 1 2 Montana: Well they might want to convert like an existing commercial or car lot or 3 something. 4 5 Chavez: Very true. 6 7 Montana: Well. 8 9 Hutson: Do you think we should do size limit? 10 11 Chavez: With a variance, if it turns out that ... 12 13 Hutson: Yeah, I think we could just ... 14 15 Chavez: They meet the 5,000 square foot criteria and they come back at us and 16 go, well we'd like to have 9,000 or 8,000 square feet or 10,000 then that's 17 ... 18 19 Montana: It's a variance. 20 21 Hutson: Variance. 22 23 Chavez: It's a variance. 24 25 Hutson: Right. 26 27 Montana: Okay. 28 29 Hutson: I think we should stick to that. 30 31 Montana: Leave it at 5,000. 32 33 Chavez: Leave it at 5,000 ... 34 35 Montana: But only on an arterial, Lohman and Amador. 36 37 Chavez: Yes. 38 39 Montana: Okay. Now, these are public, on page 55, oh, I had ... you wanted to 40 allow go-carts. Go-carts, mini racetracks. And we had ... that would be in 41 the C-2 and limited 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. 42 43 Kuhns: I don't have a problem with that. 44 45 Hutson: I don't think I have a problem with that either. 46 15 I Chavez: I don't have a problem with that. 2 3 Montana: Okay. Good. Okay. Now the recreational courts, public, again we'll wait 4 for Heather. 5 6 Hutson: Yeah. 7 8 Montana: And I'll try to find out, maybe we can all try to find out what that pickle ball 9 is ... 10 11 Chavez: Yeah, get a little more information. 12 13 Kuhns: It's in the ... today's New York Times. 14 15 Montana: Okay. 16 17 Kuhns: Just Google New York Times pickle ball. 18 19 Montana: I'll find out from our park people. 20 21 Kuhns: It's big here. 22 23 Montana: Yeah. Okay. 24 25 Kuhns: You know who plays it a lot is your landlord, Paula. She's a real big 26 player. 27 28 Montana: Really? So New York Times today? 29 30 Kuhns: Yes. 31 32 Montana: Okay. Wow. 33 34 Chavez: Botanical garden on this list too. 35 36 Montana: Yes. We took out zoo. 37 38 Hutson: Right. 39 40 Montana: So I just ... we're going to allow it. 41 42 Chavez: Darn it. 43 44 Montana: In the higher intensity residential and then the commercial zones. 45 46 Chavez: Okay. 16 1 2 Hutson: David you have to keep your exotic pets in your own house. 3 4 Chavez: After seeing those giraffes yesterday I kind of wanted one. 5 6 Montana: All right, page 58. So we had some restrictions in the R-2, R-3, and R-4. 7 Ground floor only and no more than 35% of the gross floor area of all the 8 buildings on the parcel could be these office uses, or any nonresidential 9 uses. Each establishment limited to 1,500 square feet. 10 11 Kuhns: Why is that? 12 13 Montana: Just to keep it single proprietor. 14 15 Kuhns: Okay. That's fine. I just wondered. 16 17 Montana: Yeah. And the office and commercial districts, O and C districts they don't 18 have to be limited to the ground floor, but each business establishment 19 would be limited to the 1,500 square feet. 20 21 Kuhns: Right. 22 23 Hutson: The idea again Barbara is just to make sure that like houses couldn't be 24 torn down again to build some big conglomerate type of thing. 25 26 Montana: Or for parking for the commercial. 27 28 Hutson: Right. 29 30 Montana: Okay. Check on that. Barber, beauty, hair solon, related personal care, 31 medical/dental office. Now the medical/dental office is limited to the sole 32 practitioner. And only one per parcel. So they can have a beauty shop, a 33 hair salon, nails ... 34 35 Hutson: And see their doctor. 36 37 Montana: And only one doctor. Clinics not permitted. Clinics meaning more than 38 one. 39 40 Chavez: And get Botox. I understand that that's a big deal now. 41 42 Montana: Yeah. 43 44 Chavez: Get a facial and some get a Botox. You told me that yesterday. 45 46 Montana: Or acupuncture. 17 1 2 Kuhns: At the spa downtown. 3 4 Chavez: I'm going to go check that out. Just to check it out. 5 6 Montana: You don't need it. You don't need it. 7 8 Chavez: Just to check it out. 9 10 Hutson: You're on record. 11 12 Chavez: Just to check it out. 13 14 Montana: Oh yes. 15 16 Chavez: Then I'll report to you all ... 17 18 Montana: For zoning purposes. 19 20 Chavez: For zoning purposes only. 21 22 Montana: Okay. Going down to banks ... 23 24 Hutson: So yes, clinics not permitted. Just sole practitioner. 25 26 Montana: Sole practitioner. 27 28 Hutson: Right. 29 30 Montana: Yeah. Okay. (inaudible). 31 32 Kuhns: Bank, bonding and financial. 33 34 Montana: Yeah. The condition being similar, I don't know what this SC is, that's a 35 typo. Yeah, that's a typo too, because there is no R-districts. My 36 apologies. So each establishment is limited to sole practitioner. 37 38 Hutson: Yes. 39 40 Montana: And only one per parcel. 41 42 Hutson: Right. 43 44 Montana: Okay, so scratch that first sentence. Okay. Going down, business offices, 45 consulting, credit reporting, etc. I apologize, I don't know why I have that 46 first sentence cause they're not permitted in the R-district. 18 1 2 Kuhns: If you did this in Excel it could've been cause you typed a key and it put it 3 in there automatically. 4 5 Montana: Oh, yeah. Okay, in the O. 6 7 Chavez: O and C districts. 8 9 Montana: O and C districts each business establishment limited to 1,500 square 10 feet. If they wanted to get larger they'd have to come to you for a variance 11 and Planning Commission. 12 13 Chavez: I mean we already do have an adult care service on the corner of Tornillo 14 and Lohman. I don't think that building is 1,500 square feet, but it's 15 already existing. 16 17 Montana: Yeah. Okay. Going on. Let's go to page 61. Just want you to be clear 18 that we are not allowing bars or nightclubs for dancing. 19 20 Kuhns: Is a wine bar a bar? 21 22 Montana: Yes. 23 24 Chavez: But it's ... 25 26 Montana: There's one right above that bar/pub/tavern, no dancing. 27 28 Kuhns: OhIsee. 29 30 Montana: Is allowed in the C-2. 31 32 Kuhns: All right. 33 34 Chavez: Cause that takes ... dancing takes a permit for dancing, correct? 35 36 Montana: Yes. 37 38 Chavez: In this state. 39 40 Montana: Yeah. 41 42 Chavez: Okay. 43 44 Montana: So I just wanted ... 45 19 1 Hutson: Wait, we don't want to limit drinking, we just want to limit the dancing and 2 carousing part of it. 3 4 Kuhns: I think that's a very good idea. 5 6 Chavez: But if you want to dance in the parking lot on your own you can if you're 7 that loaded. 8 9 Montana: Well you have to leave the premises. The lot. 10 11 Chavez: You can come to my house. 12 13 Montana: Yeah, okay. Okay, building material, only allowed in the C-2. 14 15 Hutson: Right. 16 17 Montana: All outdoor storage shall be screened from view from public streets. 18 19 Kuhns: Now if they're already in, then they're grandfathered? 20 21 Montana: Yeah. 22 23 Kuhns: Okay. 24 25 Montana: They're grandfathered. 26 27 Chavez: I have a question also. Is this in relation to say like a Sutherlands or you 28 know a ma and pa ...? 29 30 Montana: Yes. 31 32 Chavez: Building little company. 33 34 Montana: Yeah. 35 36 Chavez: Or even a salvage company, it all falls into that category. 37 38 Montana: Well a salvage company wouldn't be permitted here. 39 40 Chavez: Well not salvage, I mean but architectural materials, building material. 41 42 Montana: If they're selling ... this is retail sales, so if they're selling building 43 materials, like a hardware store, Samoas, or Sutherlands. 44 45 Chavez: Yeah. 46 20 1 Montana: It would be allowed but it would have to be screened. 2 3 Chavez: Okay. 4 5 Montana: Any outdoor storage would have to be screened. Okay. So let's go to 6 cafe, cafeteria, conditional in the higher intensity residential and the 7 commercial allowed as a right in the C-2. Now the conditions for R-4, 0-1, 8 0-2, C-1 is that pick-up and delivery are prohibited, but for the C-2 those 9 things would be allowed because we made it A instead of C. 10 11 Chavez: Okay. 12 13 Montana: You okay with that? 14 15 Kuhns: I would like to wait for the full Board on this. 16 17 Chavez: Yeah, because ... 18 19 Montana: Full Board. 20 21 Chavez: We have a Beck's coffee and it's a pick-up, you pick it up. You know you 22 pick up your coffee and go. I don't drink it there so you know it kind of ... 23 24 Kuhns: I know and it ... 25 26 Chavez: Kind of a shady ... 27 28 Kuhns: And you know Jimmy Johns has bicycle delivery. What if we had 29 someone with bicycle delivery, are we going to ... does that bother us. So 30 I'd like to defer for the full Board. 31 32 Chavez: I think we need to narrow it down because we do have deliveries in the 33 Mesquite area from every type of restaurant in town, so are we limiting 34 that nobody can deliver food to our neighborhood? I mean is that ... 35 36 Montana: If they were in there. 37 38 Chavez: Yeah, so ... 39 40 Kuhns: So now remember David ... oh what would be all lot Susana 0-1 or 0-29 41 42 Montana: Those are office. 43 44 Kuhns: I know but can you think of one in our neighborhood that is that 45 designation. 46 21 1 Montana: Oh, sure. 2 3 Kuhns: Oh wait, never mind I figured it out. 4 5 Montana: There's a little O on Campo and a little one right here on the edge. 6 7 Kuhns: See now I don't know that it would bother me. I think ... 8 9 Montana: It's not that much. 10 11 Kuhns: We do need to defer to the full Board. 12 13 Montana: Okay. 14 15 Kuhns: Especially right there. And I hate the fact that Zeffro's doesn't let you take 16 out. 17 18 Montana: Okay, we'll do that. Defer to ... 19 20 Chavez: Oh that's right, they don't. 21 22 Kuhns: I hate that. Sometimes I want to eat at home. 23 24 Chavez: You can go get your bread but they won't let you ... if you place an order 25 you've got to eat it there. 26 27 Montana: Where's this? 28 29 Chavez: Zeffiro's. 30 31 Montana: Oh, yeah. 32 33 Chavez: Can't take it out. 34 35 Montana: Yeah, lknow. 36 37 Chavez: I mean, you know. 38 39 Montana: Okay. The same thing going down to convenience store. They were 40 conditional in C-1 and C-2, drive-up, pick-up, and delivery prohibited 41 because they ... you know they have hotdogs and fast foods and that sort 42 of thing. 43 44 Kuhns: I don't ... that doesn't bother me. 45 46 Montana: No. 22 1 2 Kuhns: I don't have an objection to it. 3 4 Montana: Okay. 5 6 Chavez: Okay. 7 8 Kuhns: Do you Faith? 9 10 Hutson: Well except that ... 11 12 Montana: On Amador ... 13 14 Hutson: You go to a convenience store, don't you go to pick-up? 15 16 Chavez: Yeah. 17 18 Kuhns: Absolutely you do. 19 20 Hutson: Right, so I don't know how that one can be in there. 21 22 Kuhns: So it would be drive-up and delivery. 23 24 Montana: Drive-up and delivery. 25 26 Hutson: Pick-up has to be taken out of there, it's the only reason you go. 27 28 Montana: Yeah. Okay. That's okay, we'll remove pick-up. Delicatessen, 29 produce/meat market with eating facilities. You want to defer on that one 30 too because that's ... 31 32 Kuhns: Yes. 33 34 Hutson: Because that's similar and ... 35 36 Kuhns: Cause C-1 and C-2 are ... where that's zoned it wouldn't bother me 1 37 think. 38 39 Chavez: Well there's that new little restaurant that's going to open up on Campo 40 and May Street, that's where that C-1 is. They could ... 41 42 Montana: Roscoe's Bar-B-Q. 43 44 Chavez: Yeah, not open yet. 45 46 Montana: Right. 23 1 2 Kuhns: That wouldn't bother me if they had a delivery. 3 4 Chavez: No that'd be fantastic. We don't have a lot of conveniences in our district. 5 It'll be great to make a call and go, roast beef, whatever. 6 7 Kuhns: Yeah we do need to defer I think. 8 9 Montana: Yeah. All right. Got it. 10 11 Hutson: I'm not sure what the rationale was on the Board in the past on that. 1 12 think it was more just being looked at from the traffic point of view ... 13 14 Montana: Yeah traffic. 15 16 Hutson: But I'm not really sure why the Board ... 17 18 Chavez: Because, well even traffic if, that would eliminate traffic because if you're 19 having something delivered you're not driving down to the location. 20 21 Montana: Yeah if you have it delivered. 22 23 Chavez: With everybody else and taking up parking spaces. 24 25 Montana: Yeah. 26 27 Hutson: I agree, I think we should (inaudible). 28 29 Montana: We'll defer that. So on page 62 at the bottom, petroleum, propane sales, 30 we made it conditional and the condition is that portable propane tanks 31 and similar gases allowed as accessory to the retail establishment and it'll 32 meet fire codes. Okay, just wanted to clarify. 33 34 Hutson: I know, it'd be nice to go get your tank for your ... 35 36 Chavez: Grill. 37 38 Hutson: Grill. 39 40 Montana: Yeah. Okay, page 63, telephone and communication center. This could 41 mean a call center. 42 43 Hutson: Right. 44 45 Montana: And we wanted to make sure it wasn't this giant call center. 46 24 1 Chavez: Call center. 2 3 Montana: They typically can't afford to assemble giant parcels and we don't have 4 giant parcels but just to be safe we limited them ... this kind of activity to 5 3,000 gross square feet. 6 7 Chavez: Okay. 8 9 Montana: Okay. Page 68, parking facilities, commercial. Now we made this 10 conditional. Off premise parking lots, so if you have a principal allowed 11 use but you had a parking lot next door, across the street, we're saying 12 this use, commercial parking is only allowed if it is adjacent permitted use 13 and it has to be screened with type A landscape buffer which is shrubs 14 and trees. Type A is semi opaque, shrubs and trees. I know you wanted 15 that for the church parking lot, we didn't get it. And this would, you know if 16 there was a new one or they relocated, this would cover that. 17 18 Chavez: Also, I know that the property on the corner of Griggs and Campo, it's 19 owned by Ruben Smith and his hopes were always that that vacant lot 20 with a metal building on it would be turned into a parking lot for the 21 Federal courthouse building. Yeah, but hopefully that never happens. 22 23 Montana: Yeah. 24 25 Chavez: The property is up for sale is my understanding but that's one that we 26 need to keep an eye on because it's across the street from the federal 27 courthouse building and it would be a key parking space because the 28 federal courthouse building is short of parking spaces, but it all depends. 29 There's nothing on that corner. It's something to think about because ... 30 and also the other issue ... 31 32 Montana: Well this would permit it if they meet this condition. 33 34 Chavez: Okay. And the other thing too just ... he has a chain link fence on that 35 corner that should've been down. He put it up after ... 36 37 Montana: '05. 38 39 Chavez: '05. And I don't know how he got away with having a chain link fence on 40 that corner. 41 42 Montana: Did he put it up ... you know well, we can ... 43 44 Chavez: Ruben Smith is Ruben Smith. He's ex-mayor and he has friends in the 45 city. He got it, but that has always been an issue because he got away 46 with it after 2005. 25 1 2 Hutson: I don't know, it still could be made to come down. 3 4 Montana: Yeah. 5 6 Chavez: But that is an issue, and the parking. Because I do know for a fact that the 7 Federal courthouse building is short several parking spaces and they are 8 parking on Griggs all the way to Klein ... 9 10 Hutson: Except that that is not adjacent, it's across the street. 11 12 Chavez: It is across the street. 13 14 Hutson: That doesn't I think constitute adjacent. Adjacent should be immediately 15 next to, right, not across the street. 16 17 Montana: We could say abutting. 18 19 Hutson: We could make that tighter on the language. 20 21 Montana: We can make them special use. 22 23 Kuhns: Only for abutting permitted uses. 24 25 Montana: Yep. 26 27 Kuhns: And take out adjacent. 28 29 Hutson: Adjacent and insert abutting. 30 31 Chavez: I guess just to be on the safe side, I mean if it comes ... 32 33 Hutson: We could do it. We could change it to special uses instead of conditional. 34 35 Chavez: Yes. If they come and you know they say we're going to landscape, it's 36 going to be done beautifully, solar or whatever I don't know ... 37 38 Kuhns: No and ... 39 40 Chavez: It needs to be ... 41 42 Kuhns: And this is ... that's one topic that the neighbors really do need to be 43 allowed to be public about. 44 45 Chavez: Parking has always been ... 46 26 1 Kuhns: Yeah. 2 3 Chavez: A really hot issue because the fear of well if you're going to have this 4 vacant space and then there's a couple of old buildings nearby, well we'll 5 tear those down to increase the parking space and then we start whittling 6 down the historic neighborhood for parking lots. 7 8 Montana: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 9 10 Chavez: And that was the reason why. 11 12 Kuhns: So we'll change that out. 13 14 Hutson: Change it to special use as well. 15 16 Montana: It's all going to be S. It's all going to be S. Yes, because ... 17 18 Chavez: If we let one in like that, oh my gosh we'd be opening the floodgates. 19 20 Hutson: I know. 21 22 Montana: Now let me be a devil's advocate here, if a property owner comes in with a 23 demolition permit after this is adopted he or she has to tell us what they 24 want to do with the property. It could just be a little letter. If they say oh 25 we're leaving it vacant, you know we're looking for investors, that sort of 26 thing. But they don't say it's a parking lot and it gets demolished and then 27 later they come in with application for a parking lot. What can we do? It's 28 gone already. 29 30 Chavez: Well ... 31 32 Hutson: Well it's still special use. Can the parking lot be denied? 33 34 Kuhns: Well yeah especially ... 35 36 Montana: Yeah. It can be denied but for a land use reason. Not because they were 37 you know they ... misinformed or disingenuous. 38 39 Chavez: Well this happened to us when we've been misinformed on a property on 40 the corner of Court and San Pedro where they've said oh we're going to 41 put wood windows, we're going to put this, this, and this. Nothing ever 42 happened. They put in contemporary looking windows. You know the 43 property I'm talking about and they didn't follow anything that they said. 44 They did a great presentation, they had all these drawings and they even 45 had the guy that was going to build it and the neighbors were up, ready to 46 hang somebody because they lied. 27 1 2 Montana: They switched. 3 4 Chavez: Basically they lied at the meeting. 5 6 Hutson: And the problem is ... that we've had in the past is there's been no teeth, 7 no follow-up which is something that we're working on now, that they don't 8 get off that certificate of ... 9 10 Chavez: Occupancy. 11 12 Hutson: Occupancy. 13 14 Montana: Occupancy. 15 16 Hutson: Until there is a final inspection. 17 18 Montana: Oh yeah. 19 20 Hutson: So we're working on that as well. 21 22 Montana: That part. 23 24 Hutson: Cause that is somewhat of an issue and I know you're playing devil's 25 advocate and I see your point completely but I think still special use would 26 at least tighten it up. 27 28 Montana: Yeah, it would tighten it up. 29 30 Hutson: Better than being conditional. 31 32 Montana: Yeah. 33 34 Chavez: Yeah Iagree. 35 36 Montana: All right. So, special use. In that case we don't need a condition. 37 38 Hutson: Right. 39 40 Montana: Cause it'll be case-by-case (inaudible), so strike that condition. Okay, 41 moving down, storage, display of merchandise for sale except the ... you 42 know sheds and cars and that sort of thing. Conditional in the commercial 43 districts O and C. Outdoor display of goods sold on the premises limited 44 to 25% of the gross floor area of the business. Now that's different from 45 25% of the gross lot area. 46 28 1 Hutson: Right. 2 3 Kuhns: Right. 4 5 Montana: Okay. So when we say 25% of the gross floor area we mean it's 6 accessory. Okay. So we're okay with that. 7 8 Chavez: Yeah. 9 10 Montana: All right. 11 12 Chavez: I think that was it. 13 14 Montana: Manufacturing, page 71. Nope. So those were the things I wasn't sure of. 15 Do you have any other comments you want to raise? Any land uses you 16 want to add that aren't here now? 17 18 Chavez: I have a question. There's a facility already in existence on the corner of 19 Solano and Lohman and it's Si Senor's drive-thru food, you know the ... 20 that would not be permitted in our district, right? 21 22 Montana: Well ... 23 24 Chavez: I've heard of somebody ... 25 26 Hutson: Drive-thru. We've discussed no drive-thru. 27 28 Chavez: No drive-thru. Okay. 29 30 Montana: Yeah. 31 32 Chavez: Okay. 33 34 Hutson: That was the one thing we were really careful of because that's again 35 problematic with traffic and stuff. We didn't allow anything that was a 36 drive-thru. 37 38 Montana: Yeah, no drive-thru. 39 40 Chavez: Okay. Somebody had mentioned it. 41 42 Montana: That's page 61. 43 44 Chavez: Okay. 45 46 V. DISCUSSION OF OTHER ITEMS 29 1 2 3 1. Informational courtesy presentation on behalf of the City Cultural Affairs 4 Department for flexible development standard waiver for zero setback at the 5 East Side Community Center. 6 7 Montana: Now I wanted to bring your attention to this flex issue. And I have a 8 handout for you. The citywide zoning code has a provision that grants the 9 Community Development Director discretion in granting waivers or 10 reductions in setbacks, tier 2, if you look at tier 2 ... 11 12 Hutson: It's on the first page at the bottom. 13 14 Montana: There you go. Setbacks and landscaping and some parking, up to 50%. 15 What we're saying here and the proposed text (inaudible) on the bottom of 16 page 202, you may not have it, I'll read it. Any issue not addressed in this 17 section will revert to the appropriate sections of the 2001 Zoning Code as 18 amended with the exception of flex requests of section 38-58 for which 19 requests shall be approved by this Board for recommendation to our 20 director. So, for example, the flex request I'm going to show you in a few 21 minutes, right now doesn't have to come to this Board for approval or as a 22 courtesy review. 23 24 Hutson: Right. 25 26 Montana: Our director can approve it if it meets this criteria. But that will change if 27 this is adopted. It'll first come here if it's within the South Mesquite, it'll 28 first come here and you have to approve it or approve it with conditions 29 and then that recommendation goes to our director. 30 31 Chavez: Oh, okay. 32 33 Montana: And I spoke with David Weir today and he seems ... he's amenable to 34 that. 35 36 Chavez: Okay. I think it would be important for us to know. 37 38 Hutson: I think so too. 39 40 Kuhns: I think the more community input such as this, the better. 41 42 Montana: Yeah. And it can guide how they think about what ... how they want to 43 approach whatever variance or you know ... 44 45 Kuhns: Absolutely. 46 30 1 Montana: That they have to consider your design criteria and design guidelines as 2 best they can and request you know a waiver. So I'd like to switch now if 3 you don't mind to show you this example. 4 5 Hutson: Yes please. 6 7 Chavez: Sure. 8 9 Montana: Let me turn on the equipment. And I'm going to ask Becky if this is far 10 enough from the ... oh, okay. Cause she gets a little buzz sometimes if 11 the projector's too close. 12 13 Hutson: That's a little dark. 14 15 Chavez: That's fine. 16 17 Hutson: Can you see okay right now Susana or you need a little more light? 18 19 Montana: Let me turn this guy on first. I tested it earlier. 20 21 Kuhns: Yeah they need to warm up. 22 23 Chavez: I remember when they used to be this major light bulb. 24 25 Kuhns: Have you gotten any of that new lighting, it's like $20 a bulb? 26 27 Chavez: (inaudible) bulbs. 28 29 Kuhns: (inaudible) I bought them I said if they don't last 20 years I'm going to be 30 mad. 31 32 Chavez: You going to take it back after 20 years? I was talking to somebody that 33 changed all the light bulbs in his house, LD, and it was almost $600, so I'll 34 wait until it starts to drop. I don't understand why it's so expensive. 35 36 Montana: Okay. So, the Community Cultural Affairs Department, I don't know if 37 that's the right term, David Dollohan is the director and he manages all the 38 city's community centers and cultural arts, library, museum, etc. He has 39 plans to expand the Munson Center on the north side where this storage 40 container unit is located. So he has to move this storage container unit. 41 The addition to the Munson Center will have storerooms so they don't 42 need this. The East Side Community Center wants to convert some 43 existing storerooms to client counseling rooms because even though 44 there's no light or windows in those rooms, they're private. And so they 45 would like to place this eight by twenty steel storage unit, and on this 46 bottom one you can see there are two doors here and then there's one 31 1 door here, so there's sort of a limitation of where we could place it in a 2 way that the doors will open. We looked at the East Side Center and 3 parking is at a premium there. They don't want to lose any parking for 4 their meal-on-wheel vehicles. They didn't want to locate it here where it's 5 highly visible from the street. Can't get rid of the handicapped parking. 6 Don't want to lose any of this parking because there's a big demand and 7 there's already overflow onto the street. So they thought that the least 8 obtrusive location would be right here and I'll show you in a later slide a 9 close up, right here at the edge of the property next to existing dumpsters 10 and it's next to these two properties. Now the city would require that Mr. 11 Dollohan get agreement from these two property owners if they place the 12 container here. 13 14 Kuhns: You know where that's ... the yellow ... go for it. 15 16 Chavez: No. Well maybe somebody will talk to them ... 17 18 Kuhns: Yeah, exactly that'd be a good thing. 19 20 Chavez: Because that's (inaudible) and sister's property. 21 22 Kuhns: Yeah. 23 24 Hutson: Go back to that site again. 25 26 Kuhns: It's that molding twin house of mine. The yellow one. 27 28 Chavez: It looks like we were talking about it, that Clarence owns it. 29 30 Kuhns: Yeah. 31 32 Chavez: The sister. 33 34 Kuhns: No. 35 36 Chavez: No, the one above it. That one. Cause it needs to be restored. It's a 37 great house. 38 39 Kuhns: Oh it is. It's just breaking everyone's heart. 40 41 Montana: I have a different image of that. I'll show it. 42 43 Hutson: Okay. 44 45 Montana: So this is ... it's a little dirt area. 46 32 1 Kuhns: Oh that's a nice little place for it. 2 3 Chavez: That's perfect. 4 5 Montana: This would be where they would put it. 6 7 Kuhns: Yeah. 8 9 Montana: They're asking for a zero setback so they can scooch it up against the 10 property line and not remove any parking. And so here's another ... 11 12 Chavez: That's fine. 13 14 Montana: That's fine. 15 16 Chavez: I thought that was a parking space, I was going to say now you're losing a 17 space, but that's perfect. 18 19 Montana: Yeah. So here's the location, it's screened from Court Street. 20 21 Kuhns: Right. 22 23 Montana: By these shrubs and here's the house you're speaking of. And it would be 24 right here again. It would visible but it's painted a similar color to this. 25 26 Chavez: I don't see ... 27 28 Kuhns: I think that'd be nice. 29 30 Chavez: If they need it. 31 32 Montana: These are from Tornillo. So that is their request. Now city would require 33 ... the city would require that there be a drainpipe so that any rain that 34 sloughed off the flat roof goes onto city property and not onto the 35 neighbors. 36 37 Chavez: Well there's already a pond there so if it runs into the parking lot then it 38 goes into the pond so they don't need a pipe. 39 40 Montana: Well, but the roof of that container, if it's too close ... 41 42 Chavez: So in other words the water has to fall into ... okay I understand, so city 43 property, not onto the properties adjacent. Totally understand. 44 45 Hutson: They should capture it in a rail barrel. 46 33 1 Montana: And then ... 2 3 Chavez: Put it in a rain barrel, save the water. 4 5 Montana: Yeah, okay. Yeah. 6 7 Hutson: Seriously. 8 9 Montana: Those ... there are those scrub trees right next to it. 10 11 Hutson: Right. 12 13 Chavez: Yeah the water could be used to water ... 14 15 Hutson: It should go back into the aquifer, they need to do something a little bit 16 more. 17 18 Chavez: (inaudible). 19 20 Hutson: Yep. 21 22 Montana: So but these trees are actually on the other properties. 23 24 Hutson: I should turn the lights back on. 25 26 Montana: So that is an example of a flex request. 27 28 Hutson: Okay. 29 30 Montana: That would come to you. 31 32 Chavez: That would be fine. 33 34 Kuhns: And it's great that the city is ... it's great that the city is wanting to put 35 more transparency to that process. 36 37 Montana: Yes. Our director is happy to do that. 38 39 Hutson: This is Dollohan. 40 41 Montana: Our director is David Weir. 42 43 Hutson: Oh Weir, yes, that's right. 44 45 Montana: David Weir. 46 34 1 Kuhns: Yeah I think the city is working toward more transparency and I appreciate 2 it. 3 4 Montana: Good. I think we're ... do you have any other land uses that you want to 5 add or remove from this list? And I'm speaking of the 11 by 17 matrix for 6 the record. 7 8 Kuhns: I don't have any. 9 10 Chavez: I can't think of another. 11 12 Montana: We'll come back to it when we have a full Board and we can tweak it. 13 Then what we'll do, I'll take it ... when we're done with this I'm going to 14 take the land uses or the controls that I think are new, it might be 15 controversial, I'm going to take that to our management team, the ZRT, 16 Zoning Review Team, to get their feedback. The reason I want to do this 17 is there might be a recommendation against some of the things you're 18 recommending, for example, I don't even know right now, but when I take 19 this to the Board, when I take this to the Planning and Zoning 20 Commission, excuse me, we're taking what you're recommending. 21 22 Hutson: Right. 23 24 Montana: And then part of the staff report will be what staff, Community 25 Development staff would prefer. And then it's up to the Planning 26 Commission to make a recommendation to City Council and so what I call 27 a minority report is what the staff management will recommend. There 28 might be ... for example you're recommending 90 day review for 29 demolition, 90 day delay, our city attorney might say, no I want the 60 30 days. So that would be a minority report, something like that. I don't 31 know, I haven't approached the city attorney with these so I don't know 32 what he'll say. But I just want to let you know that that's why I'm bringing it 33 to ZRT, just to get their feedback. 34 We'll I think we're back on the regular agenda. I don't have any 35 other discussions. 36 37 Hutson: Do you guys have any other discussions? Anything you wanted to add? 38 David what about that color of wall, there was some. 39 40 Chavez: Yes. There was a couple that had ... got a permit to build a wall on Court 41 Street and something on the permit said that if there was an unusual color 42 placed on the wall that they needed to come to this Board. And so 1 43 thought that was rather unusual because we don't have color involved in 44 the existing overlay much less on the new one but on the permit it stated 45 that they couldn't paint it any ... they had to be specific on the color and 46 they thought this was ... this was really strange. 35 1 2 Montana: Do you know the address or? 3 4 Chavez: It's on Court Street, it's ... 5 6 Hutson: Well it's the same property as on Hadley. 7 8 Chavez: 441 Hadley, so it's 441 Court Street I think. 9 10 Kuhns: Oh you're serious. 11 12 Hutson: Yeah. 13 14 Chavez: I'm serious. 15 16 Hutson: It's Bob and Laurie's. 17 18 Chavez: It's Bob and Laurie's. They built that zigzag wall. 19 20 Kuhns: Yeah. 21 22 Chavez: Well, she's the one that called me and she said there's a color restriction. 23 And I'm going, there's no color restriction. 24 25 Montana: Oh for the wall. 26 27 Chavez: For the wall. And so they were just ... because they had it plastered or 28 they're going to get it plastered, I can't remember ... 29 30 Kuhns: It is plastered. 31 32 Chavez: And so they kind of ... because the house they built that in front of is kind 33 of a sage-y kind of green and so they were going to build, not necessarily 34 paint it the same color as that wall but something that is complimentary to 35 that area, to that wall and so they just ... they raised the flag and I'm going 36 1 don't believe there's ... there's never been anything that has to do with 37 color. 38 39 Montana: Well we have urban design ... citywide urban design. 40 41 Chavez: Oh. So we're restricted on certain colors? Cause lord knows we got 42 some Pepto-Bismol pink houses in our neighborhood. 43 44 Kuhns: Which I love. I love it. 45 36 1 Chavez: You know and that's what makes our neighborhood kind of unique is that if 2 you're falling asleep you drive on the street cause you're going to wake 3 up. 4 5 Montana: Yeah. There is ... okay, urban design ... 6 7 Hutson: If that is the case then I think that's something the Design Review Board 8 needs to talk about. 9 10 Chavez: Yeah, cause I don't think we've ever had an issue with color. 11 12 Kuhns: I love the color in Silver City; yellow, blue, orange. 13 14 Hutson: And that's like I really like our bubble gum pink houses here. I mean I'm 15 happy to not live in one necessarily but I (inaudible). 16 17 Chavez: Yeah, Laurie painted that straw bale wall in kind of an orangy, kind of like 18 a sunset and I don't think that was an issue. 19 20 Hutson: So that's something we need to check into. 21 22 Chavez: Cause that's what they got with the permit and they just kind of like, cause 23 I don't think we've ever had a case that had to do with color of the 24 structure. 25 26 Hutson: No, we never have, at least not the ones that I've attended in the past. 27 28 Chavez: Not that I can remember all the years I've been here. 29 30 Montana: Well let me look that up. 31 32 Hutson: Yeah. 33 34 Montana: I remember that permit, so let me look. 35 36 Chavez: So that's one of the reasons they have ... well I think they're going to paint 37 it anyway, but not that they were going to paint it some ... 38 39 Montana: Well part of that fence is painted the sand color, sandy/beige. 40 41 Chavez: Well some of it is, but they were going to go ahead and paint it all the 42 same color so that way ... 43 44 Kuhns: Though also I want to remind you that the city invited aerosol spray artists 45 and they painted walls neon green, orange, blue, purple, and that was with 46 the city's blessing. 37 1 2 Hutson: Right. 3 4 Kuhns: So we need to have consistency. 5 6 Hutson: Consistency. 7 8 Chavez: Clarity. Yeah. We need to clarify that because my understanding also is 9 that there is a program that is people want to, I think the word was rent, a 10 wall on a street to have artwork done, that that is also available because I 11 think Laurie said that they were going to do that wall that's on ... 12 13 Kuhns: I think that was when they did that that ... and they're gone now. They 14 were just here ... 15 16 Chavez: Well here are now other ones that want to do murals. 17 18 Kuhns: Oh. 19 20 Chavez: There's a mural or muralists that want to do murals along the areas that 21 people are willing to either let them have the wall for the artwork and 22 (inaudible) or rent the wall for the particular reason, and this is from Laurie 23 telling me that that may happen so. 24 25 Montana: All right, let me look up that permit and see what it said. 26 27 Chavez: Okay. 28 29 Hutson: We'd appreciate it. 30 31 Kuhns: And then maybe you could send us an e-mail because it is one of our 32 neighbors. 33 34 Montana: Yeah, yeah. Okay. 35 36 Kuhns: And ... 37 38 Hutson: I put a call, text into the actual address thinking maybe he'd text back but 39 40 41 Chavez: I can't remember for sure but ... 42 43 Montana: No I'll remember it. 44 45 Hutson: You know which one it is, right? 46 38 1 Montana: Yeah. 2 3 Chavez: Also, here's another thing too, this ... we just heard rumors and we don't 4 know if this is fact, but on the corner of Hadley and San Pedro there are 5 two old adobe buildings across the street from a church. 6 7 Kuhns: The Baptist church. 8 9 Chavez: The Baptist church. It's a black African American. 10 11 Montana: Yeah. 12 13 Chavez: And we heard a rumor that there may be a demolition. 14 15 Montana: Yeah. 16 17 Chavez: What? 18 19 Montana: It's a rumor. 20 21 Hutson: It's a rumor. I told you that the other day that that wasn't true. 22 23 Chavez: Okay. All right. 24 25 Montana: Well but you know they haven't submitted yet but Ms. Ann Henry came in 26 and asked about process for filling out a demolition permit. Ann Henry's 27 one of the board members. 28 29 Chavez: Of that church. 30 31 Montana: Of that church. 32 33 Chavez: Okay, well it's kind of like ... 34 35 Montana: I wouldn't say it's eminent but ... 36 37 Chavez: The flag is flying ... 38 39 Montana: They're having trouble finding out what else to do and who else could 40 improve those buildings. 41 42 Kuhns: I know someone that would buy it. 43 44 Montana: We'll have them ... 45 46 Kuhns: Get in touch with them. 39 1 2 Montana: Yeah. 3 4 Kuhns: Okay, I will. 5 6 Montana: Ms. Ann Henry is in our HR department. 7 8 Kuhns: Oh, okay. 9 10 Montana: So you can just call our HR department and ask for Ann Henry. 11 12 Chavez: It's important that those structures remain because it's one of the few 13 places on the Mesquite Historic District where they're on zero lot, they're 14 built right next to each other, these are all individual houses and they're 15 few of them now left in the district where it actually shows how the historic 16 district at one time was. Where they didn't waste land use to have a tree 17 or a rose bush, they built right up to the street just like in Mexico and then 18 their gardens were in the back yard. So it is important that we try to be 19 proactive and see if by whatever means to have it not demolished. And if 20 that happens, if you know somebody who can buy them, by all means. 21 22 Montana: Yeah. 23 24 Chavez: We'll get the word out. 25 26 Montana: That's what the delay is ... 27 28 Chavez: If they're willing to sell it. 29 30 Hutson: If they're willing to sell. 31 32 Chavez: We have means of getting the word out also to the folks about if there's 33 property for sale in the Mesquite area. 34 35 Montana: Yeah. Well when Ms. Henry came downstairs and asked about it 1 36 strongly urged her not to propose a demolition if what she's trying to do is 37 a parking lot. I said, no. But you know I have no ... 38 39 Chavez: They have two parking lots. 40 41 Montana: I know they have two parking lots. 42 43 Chavez: And in the back of their church is pavement. 44 45 Hutson: That doesn't mean people don't want more parking. 46 40 1 Montana: I just told her, like don't think about it if you're doing a parking lot. 2 3 Hutson: Barbara do you have anything you want to bring up? 4 5 Kuhns: I don't. 6 7 Montana: Well thank you. Welcome. S 9 VI. ADJOURNMENT (7:44) 10 11 Hutson: Shall we adjourn at 7:36. 12 13 Montana: Yes. 14 15 117 6 18 ciOQI Vll�/ KS 19 Chairperson 41