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06-19-2014 1 SOUTH MESQUITE DESIGN REVIEW BOARD 2 June 19, 2014 at 6:00 p.m. 3 4 Following are the final, approved minutes of the South Mesquite Design Review Board 5 meeting held June 19, 2014 in 2007-A, City Hall, 700 N. Main Street, Las Cruces, NM 6 88001. 7 8 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: Heather Barrett 9 Robert Williams 10 David Chavez 11 Barbara Kuhns 12 13 STAFF PRESENT: Susana Montana, CLC Planner 14 Becky Baum, RC Creations, LLC, Recording Sec. 15 16 I. CALL TO ORDER 17 18 Barrett: We're going to call the meeting to order at 6:06 p.m. 19 20 It. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - May 15, 2014 21 22 Barrett: And the first item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes from May 23 15th. You all have any comments or corrections? 24 25 Williams: I move to approve the minutes. 26 27 Barrett: Okay, can I add one thing though? 28 29 Williams: Oh yeah. 30 31 Barrett: So we're listed as present and I was not at the meeting. I was in Santa 32 Fe. 33 34 Williams: I wasn't either. 35 36 Baum: Okay, so that needs to betaken off. 37 38 Williams: Yeah that's true I wasn't either. 39 40 Baum: Page one remove Heather. 41 42 Barrett: And Robert. 43 44 Montana: And Robert. Okay, 45 46 Barrett: Okay, so other than that Robert you moved to approve. 1 1 2 Williams: To approve as amended. 3 4 Barrett: Okay. 5 6 Chavez: I'll second. 7 8 Barrett: And David seconded. Thank you. 9 10 Montana: Thank you. Okay Dan, now you can turn the lights off. 11 12 III. NEW BUSINESS 13 14 1. Case SMO-14-01: Request to construct a 480 square foot (sf) addition to an 15 845 sf home located at 428 N. San Pedro Street, Parcel No. 02-06165, within 16 the original Townsite and the South Mesquite R-3 High Density Residential 17 Overlay District. Mona Garcia, property owner, Dan Garcia and Steve 18 Calderazzo, representatives. 19 20 Barrett: And so the new item on the agenda is the addition at 428 North San Pedro 21 and Susana is going to lead us off with a PowerPoint, and just to tell you 22 know the structure of this; Susana will give the PowerPoint, then the 23 owners have about 10 minutes to give any comments or offer any 24 additional information and then the Board will do its discussion. Since we 25 don't have any public, there will be no public comment, so and then we'll 26 take a vote. 27 28 Montana: Okay, thank you Madam Chair. For the record, Susana Montana, I'm 29 showing a slide show. This slide shows the location of the property which 30 is just south of Hadley on South San Pedro and it's an existing single- 31 family residence with a carport and some later slides ... this is a current 32 image of the house and the carport, and I'm going to show you a couple of 33 other images of it. This is the ... survey some University of New Mexico, 34 NMSU students did. They did a survey of the State and federal 35 designated historic buildings in the South Mesquite, Mesquite Street 36 Historic District in 2004 And so this is an image of the house in 2004. And 37 1 can go back, I think, and this is the house today. So it originally had a 38 flat roof and I guess in the 1950s almost throughout the historic district 39 people put on low-pitched roofs so there's a little bit there, low-pitched roof 40 and then, we don't know when this was an addition. So these two 41 additions rendered the house noncontributory to the historic district. This 42 is a view of the north side, there's a little water ... hot water heater 43 structure here. This is the south ... I mean the east elevation, the rear 44 yard and the south elevation. 45 Now I'm going to show you some images of homes in the area. 46 This is the property immediately south of the property, this is the subject 2 I property and this is the multi-family house, I guess a duplex, right to the 2 south and there's ... right about here's the carport and then parking for 3 that house. This is the property ... this is the subject property, this is the 4 property to the north, it's an abandoned adobe structure duplex as well 5 and it's owned by the church across the street and they have no plans to 6 remodel or rehab. They may even want to demolish it. 7 8 Chavez: Over my dead body. 9 10 Montana: Okay, alright, property across the street, duplex and a little close up. So 11 these are what we call pueblo or Spanish revival pueblo design, built very 12 close to the property line, small stone fence along the street frontage and 13 property on the corner, again pueblo style with stone ... little short 14 stonewall. 15 This is the proposed addition, it would replace the carport. They 16 would not have a driveway, I mean a garage or a carport, they would park 17 in the driveway. It's about 840 square feet and they would enter through 18 this side. There would also be this concrete area with the walk ... they 19 would retain this walk and the gate to the property. These are the 20 elevations; front elevation, sloped roof mimicking the existing the sloped 21 roof, three windows. These are not multi-pane windows and let me go 22 back to the existing structure see what we've got here. So, they are ... 23 maybe Dan can tell us double hung windows. 24 25 D. Garcia: They have wrought iron. 26 27 Montana: With the security gates. Go back here, so this would mimic those and 1 28 don't know, are you going to put the security gates on the new windows? 29 30 D. Garcia: No ma'am. 31 32 Montana: Okay. 33 34 D. Garcia: In fact, I mean, we eventually probably want to get away from ... 35 36 Montana: I think I'm going to have to have you come closer ... 37 38 Baum: Or speak a little louder. 39 40 D. Garcia: I said I think eventually we're going to get away from the whole security. 1 41 mean obviously for safety it's good, but ... but with a better window in 42 place, when we replace them we'll probably remove them. 43 44 Montana: Remove the existing security bars? 45 46 M. Garcia: Yeah. 3 1 2 D. Garcia: Right. 3 4 Montana: Okay, to match the new, okay. 5 6 M. Garcia: And put new ... you know the windows ... we'll actually replace the 7 windows to match what's in the front cause they're old and they need to 8 be replaced. 9 10 D. Garcia: They're just ... they're just ... the current windows are just so old that it 11 makes sense to leave the security on for now. 12 13 Montana: Okay, that was Dan Garcia speaking and his mother Mona Garcia, the 14 applicants for the record. I think that's it. Do you want to take a look at 15 the images more or would you be ready to hear from the applicant? 16 17 Barrett: I'm ready to hear from the applicant. 18 19 Williams: I am. 20 21 Montana: You mind coming up and, cause I have the microphone right here. Just 22 we're going to try this tonight. 23 24 D. Garcia: Podium. 25 26 Montana: Yeah, state your name and how you represent the applicant. 27 28 D. Garcia: My name's Dan Garcia and I represent the applicant in this case with my 29 contractor's license. I have a GB-98. I've had a GB-2 since 2002. 30 31 Montana: And those are types of New Mexico ... 32 33 D. Garcia: New Mexico Building licensing and I built a few houses here in Las 34 Cruces, 1811 Lone Tree Lane. I built that in 2006 and then, well the other 35 one was a remodel. So, and so basically what we're doing here is ... the 36 home ... she basically needs more living space. We have a ... she has a 37 big family so what we're doing is adding I think it's 442 square feet of 38 heated ... half of that is living area and the other half is a master bathroom 39 that would adjoin to the master bedroom. We're doing ... 40 41 M. Garcia: 480, 42 43 Montana: 480. 44 45 D. Garcia: 480. The exterior walls are two by six. We decided to do ... with the way 46 the current roof structure is, since it's not a flat roof, we decided to make it 4 1 look similar to the existing structure, so we continue with the same type of 2 roof style which is just a sloping pitched roof with shingles and; of course, 3 synthetic stucco, just your traditional building materials, two by six exterior 4 walls. The wall between the living area and the master bathroom is also a 5 two by six wall for sound, just because it's not normal that you would have 6 in most new homes a master bathroom that is actually sharing a wall with 7 living area where there will be people you know, so we did that two by six 8 with R-30 for sound insulation, or sound proofing. The opening that you 9 see from the master bathroom to the ... 10 11 Montana: This. 12 13 D. Garcia: Yeah, right there, that is actually ... that opening is already there. There's 14 already a door there. So all we need to do is once it's complete is take 15 that door off cause it's an exterior door and reframe the inside of that and 16 make it an interior door. So other than those changes we're really just 17 taking that carport out and putting ... and the carport is pretty old. The 18 wood's not too good on it so and really the way they did it, they didn't 19 really do it right, they just nailed a two by six to the existing wall of the 20 home and then they hung the supporting structure on top of that. So that's 21 another thing is it's not really done the safest way. So basically the way 22 ... then on a final note I think for what I know you guys might be looking 23 for, what the final plan is, is when we finish ... when we stucco the outside 24 of the building we're going to go ahead and wrap the whole house and just 25 stucco everything so it just looks like one home, cause we don't want it to 26 look like, wow, that addition looks really really nice but this left side of the 27 house still looks like you know ... 28 29 M. Garcia: Well my name is Mona I'm the homeowner and I just want to interject a 30 little but the way this whole started, is I really wanted to re-stucco the 31 outside of my home and we have this carport that we do a lot of outside 32 stuff in and I really wanted to just reroof it cause it's falling apart and it 33 needs shingle and it wasn't made well. So I just wanted to rebuild it, put a 34 slab of cement, can't do that because of how far it is from the road, it 35 doesn't meet requirements. So then we started looking at the addition 36 until, you know, it got way bigger than imagined, but I really like ... he 37 came up with the plans, I thought I really like it. I want the outside of the 38 house to look nice and presentable and actually in the stucco there are 39 some really nice houses in that area that have really pretty designs on it 40 and I really want to incorporate something like that when we get to that 41 point, but that's really what I wanted. I wanted to give my house a facelift 42 but, you know, in the meantime you have to go through all of this before 43 you can get to that point and so ... cause I was happy with the house as 44 small as it is but it is very small and so it would be nice to have the living 45 area. And I would love if I could make it look like the other homes in the 46 area but obviously can't, but hopefully with the stucco we can do some 5 1 sort of nice ... cause there are some other houses in that area that have 2 really nice like ... the New Mexico emblem or you know there's some 3 really nice stucco and he knows some contractors that do really nice 4 stucco work so I'm hoping finished product, besides being a lot nicer 5 livable space for us, will make you know look nice next to my neighbor 6 (inaudible) the duplex next to us. 7 8 D. Garcia: There was one challenge we talked about the current water heater; it's not 9 ... it's not to code because basically there's a five foot setback on the side 10 of the property and that water heater was just stuck right outside the 11 home. 12 13 M. Garcia: It was horrible. (inaudible)I had to have that redone. 14 15 D. Garcia: We had to ... we had to ... we basically redid what was there and put 16 brand new wood and stuff because it was just falling apart but there was 17 not really a feasible way to ... 18 19 M. Garcia: Put it in the house. 20 21 D. Garcia: Move the water heater to the house. Even though this has a pitched roof 22 the top of it, there's really ... there's an attic above ... where all the current 23 stuff runs through. It's not like a traditional home where you can get in the 24 two by fours, it's just ... it's just cement and you know like you said it was 25 once a flat roof so there's just tons and tons of rolled roofing and gravel 26 and tar. So that's the only ... 27 28 M. Garcia: I think the man that owned it did a lot of his own work cause my electrical 29 switches are the different direction. 30 31 D. Garcia: Well at least you know ... at least the new part and there is a new water 32 heater and my main thing is cause she's also my mother is to get the 33 home to be safe you know. 34 35 Chavez: May I ask ... did you not think about maybe a hot water heater on demand 36 where you don't need a hot water heater? 37 38 M. Garcia: I did think about it when I purchased the one that we put in there and at 39 the time we were thinking about another bathroom so we thought well, 40 cause we did look at them, they're kind of pricy, but I'm thinking about 41 maybe doing that, especially with the new addition cause they're nice. 42 43 D. Garcia: I wasn't involved in that or I didn't think of that cause I'm not sure how ... 44 what ... how the plumbing has to change in the house. 45 46 Chavez: The gas line increases (inaudible). 6 1 2 D. Garcia: So you know there's ... 3 4 Chavez: There are some houses in this area that do have ... 5 6 D. Garcia: Right. 7 8 Chavez: Hot water on demand. 9 10 D. Garcia: Well that's a good thought. 11 12 Chavez: You get rid of that little building on the side. 13 14 M. Garcia: We'll look into that cause I ... one of the things I wanted to redo once I tear 15 up the bathroom ... the kitchen floor is redoing the plumbing in there 16 cause it's old. But that's ... one step at a time. It's working fine. 17 18 Barrett: So do we want to open the discussion up to the Board. Okay, thank you 19 and I'm sure we'll have questions as we go along too. 20 21 D. Garcia: Oh, okay. 22 23 Barrett: Should we turn on the lights? 24 25 Montana: I just want to ask one question while we have the lights down, is there a 26 hole punch through this CMU block? 27 28 D. Garcia: Yeah ... 29 30 M. Garcia: There'll be an archway. 31 32 D. Garcia: There's a three-foot archway that's just open with no door in it. 33 34 Montana: Oh, okay. 35 36 D. Garcia: And it goes into the current living room which is right next to that. 37 38 M. Garcia: Which will turn into a dining room. 39 40 D. Garcia: Which is turning into a dining room. 41 42 Montana: Okay, alright. 43 44 Barrett: Okay, so open up for discussion with the Board. 45 46 Chavez: Question, is the original structure out of adobe? 7 1 2 D. Garcia: No. 3 4 Chavez: No? 5 6 M. Garcia: Cinderblock. 7 8 D. Garcia: It's cinderblock. 9 10 Chavez: Really. What's the year? do you know the year it was built? 11 12 M. Garcia: I think she said 19-something. 13 14 D. Garcia: Susana told me ... 15 16 M. Garcia: I think Susana told us. I have no idea what ... 1940 something. 17 18 Montana: 1930. 19 20 Barrett: 1930, 21 22 M. Garcia: That's crazy. 23 24 Chavez: Oh (inaudible). 25 26 Kuhns: Does it have metal casement windows that open up like? What's behind 27 those security bars? 28 29 Williams: It was double hung. 30 31 M. Garcia: The windows just open up like ... 32 33 Chavez: Are they wood or are they aluminum? 34 35 D. Garcia: Aluminum. 36 37 Chavez: Okay, so they're aluminum. 38 39 M. Garcia: Oh yeah it's aluminum. 40 41 Chavez: Okay. 42 43 D. Garcia: Yeah and the windows that are there now, I mean they're really hard to 44 open and close. They're just ... 45 46 M. Garcia: They need to be replaced. 8 1 2 Chavez: Aluminum, they don't last. Those windows do not last very long. 3 4 D. Garcia: Yeah. 5 6 Barrett: I wonder if we could go back to the elevations and the (inaudible). And 1 7 had wondered if you all thought at all about stepping the addition back? 8 9 Williams: I was thinking the same thing. 10 11 Barrett: So if you come back a bit, you could even ... you could either lose a little 12 space or you could bump this whole thing back and why that's a little bit 13 important is even though this is a noncontributing house, it would be nice 14 to keep the massing of the earlier house somewhat more prominent than 15 the addition. And so if you were able to step the new addition back a bit 16 you would keep that massing (inaudible) from the front a little more clearly 17 than instead of having kind of a much larger mass as one. You know, just 18 wondering if you had given that any consideration. 19 20 D. Garcia: You know we did and what we did for that is, I don't know if you notice but 21 it's really slight. The very front of the living room is tied in about four 22 inches back from the current structure and then the window has ... that 23 wall is arched so it comes out about seven or eight inches, so it has an 24 archway. And that's another reason so, but we did give that thought and 25 the thought was if you look at the front elevation picture which is on the 26 bottom left, originally we were going to tie the current room into the current 27 roof but if you notice the additional roof is slightly lower than the current, 28 so that ... I mean if you look at that lot of elevation and again not ... I know 29 what you're saying with the whole setting the front back, the only problem 30 with that is you lose living space. But we did take that into consideration 31 with that front having those three breaks where the windows are and then 32 where it actually ties into the current structure, it's set back about four 33 inches and that roof is about six inches lower than the current structure. 34 So that's pretty much about what we thought we had put into making this 35 show ... cause we did want it to seem ... I mean obviously the stucco's 36 going to be the same. The house is going to all look the same but with 37 how small from that front elevation it looks compared to the bigger 38 structure we're hoping that it can almost look like you say, like something 39 was added on. 40 41 Williams: I think one of the things that Heather had mentioned was cause you talk 42 about losing space or whatever, what she was saying is just shift the 43 entire addition back like five feet or something like that. Don't change the 44 size of it, just shift it back. 45 9 1 D. Garcia: Well ... so the only problem with that is there's a little shed in the back and 2 there's not very much room as it is to get through ... and I'm going to say 3 there's five to seven feet between that ... and I guess I want to call it a 4 shed. 5 6 Williams: Yeah, well, and my concern is I agree with you on the setting it back but 7 my concern wasn't so much the aesthetics of the building ... 8 9 Chavez: Oh, I see the shed. 10 11 Williams: My concern is that you have 17 feet of a drive there which means that if 12 you get a larger car or something parking there it's going ... it's going to 13 go into the side and it's ... 14 15 D. Garcia: We already measured that so the standard car in the driveway, the 16 standard car will fit there and that's the reason if you look at ... I don't 17 know if you guys want to see the floor plan which 1 have here, on the right 18 side ... cause I actually have a truck that's really really big and she's my 19 mom so I go over there but that's why we made that drive ... if you look at 20 the ... 21 22 Williams: A little wider, but ... 23 24 M. Garcia: Yeah. 25 26 D. Garcia: Well, no, it actually goes on to ... I don't know if you guys have a copy of 27 it. 28 29 Barrett: We've got the floor plan. 30 31 Williams: The site plan. 32 33 D. Garcia: Does it show the new driveway on there? 34 35 Williams: The site plan does. 36 37 Kuhns: Yes, it does. 38 39 D. Garcia: So if you see the new driveway it actually goes further past the ... 40 41 Williams: Oh, oh. 42 43 Kuhns: It goes further past the structure so you can park a larger car there. 44 10 1 D. Garcia: So we ... the good news is the standard car has about a foot and a half on 2 the front and a foot and a half on the back before it's into the sidewalk and 3 that was actually something ... 4 5 M. Garcia: That was one of the things we actually ... 6 7 D. Garcia: We actually reviewed that with the approval guys that do the whole. 8 9 Chavez: Permit. 10 11 D. Garcia: Yeah, permit. Yeah. We reviewed that with them. 12 13 M. Garcia: We tested it with real cars. We put the truck in there (inaudible). 14 15 D. Garcia: Yeah, we actually measured it and ... so you ... 16 17 M. Garcia: And I have a small car so mine fits fine. 18 19 D. Garcia: And that's ... her car is actually ... her car is not a standard car, it's a four- 20 door sedan and her car has 18 inches on the front and 18 inches on the 21 back before it's hitting the actual driveway. So a small car fits in there with 22 like four feet still. 23 24 Barrett: And would it be possible to move this shed in the rear somewhere else or 25 ... ? 26 27 Williams: Yeah, to the other side of the yard maybe. 28 29 Barrett: Meaning is it ... is it portable or is it on a slab? 30 31 M. Garcia: It's on a slab. 32 33 D. Garcia: Yeah it's ... 34 35 Barrett: It's on a slab. 36 37 D. Garcia: Yeah it's cemented and ... 38 39 Barrett: Okay. 40 41 M. Garcia: That is a (inaudible). 42 43 D. Garcia: But yeah, we thought about ... we've been on this for months. It's crazy 44 how much went through our heads before we actually came and said okay 45 this is it. 46 11 1 Kuhns: You know since this is the first application or I guess we call it an 2 application, I have a lot of questions because when I've been here in the 3 past it was an audience member and the Design Review Board felt that it 4 was really important to have wood windows on the street side and that is 5 one of our ... one of the revisions that we're going through, it says the 6 replacement of windows and key design characteristic is the chief reason 7 or loss of historical integrity in the Mesquite neighborhood, but could 8 someone clarify the window policy for me. 9 10 M. Garcia: That would be good for me too cause I don't know ... I mean we were 11 looking at windows (inaudible). 12 13 Montana: Well if this were a contributory building and it had wood windows and it 14 was being remodeled we would certainly want the replacement to be wood 15 windows but since this has been altered and is no longer contributory; and 16 the windows are aluminum clad, we didn't bring that up as a case. 17 18 Kuhns: Okay, thank you that was very clear. 19 20 Barrett: Any other comments? 21 22 D. Garcia: Well to just let you guys know, we definitely know that part of ... I mean 23 just so you know how I see it, I mean I respect what you guys are going 24 because I kind of get an idea of what's going on, but there's no doubt like 25 being in the ... cause I mean we always talk about where I grew up and 26 how historical it was. I was talking to her; we lived in Hanover, New 27 Mexico, and anytime we did something we definitely tried to keep the 28 rustic look, you know, like just so that the tradition isn't lost but at the 29 same time you definitely ... we want the neighborhood and I'm looking at it 30 from a big picture, you want it to look better but at the same time not lose 31 it's ... 32 33 Chavez: Integrity. 34 35 D. Garcia: It's integrity, it's history and it's richness you know. 36 37 M. Garcia: Which is (inaudible). 38 39 D. Garcia: Really anything that we can do to the current thing now I think is ... and 40 we're not changing it, it's going to make it look that way, I believe that. 41 42 M. Garcia: Cause my yard's going to look stellar. I can't wait. 43 44 D. Garcia: Oh yeah. If you drive by she's always in the yard, which it's only this big 45 but she's ... 46 12 1 M. Garcia: I love my yard. 2 3 D. Garcia: She's gardening. 4 5 Kuhns: There's a real fine line that we have to walk because I think it's very 6 important that people have a sense of pride about their house regardless 7 of how it looks and personally I want to encourage people to work on their 8 homes and fix them up; and I also do like the historic aspect of the 9 neighborhood. I feel that that's really important but you know a 1942 10 house, well pretty soon it'll be an antique. 11 12 Chavez: Well it is an antique. 13 14 D. Garcia: It is an antique. It's there. 15 16 Barrett: Let's see, I think all of my other questions have been answered. For me, 1 17 would like to see this step back but the roofline ... the difference in the 18 roofline is enough for me. I'm not going to say you need to move that 19 shed so you can bump back the house. 20 21 Montana: Now, Dan said that this part ... the new ... the addition is about four 22 inches set back. Would it be worthwhile to paint that addition a different 23 shade, no, so it'd look shadowy or something? No? 24 25 D. Garcia: And I mean just so you know ... 26 27 Montana: Same color but a different shade. 28 29 D. Garcia: So one of the things we did think ... I appreciate you not making that a 30 requirement, but we actually thought of ... and not drastic by any means, 31 cause if you get too drastic I think that you start going, well that looks 32 weird, you know. But we thought about maybe just a slight ... like almost 33 like somehow ceiling they'll do a color on the ceiling and then the side is 34 slightly different but really hard to tell if you don't look at it. 35 36 Chavez: Yeah. 37 38 Barrett: I mean maybe you could experiment with that like Susana was saying just 39 a slight shade different and see what ... see what it looks like. 40 41 Montana: Yeah. 42 43 M. Garcia: Well once you start working with these ... 44 45 Barrett: Cause that could be one other step that would differentiate it. 46 13 1 D. Garcia: Yeah. 2 3 Barrett: But I don't think you want like you know dramatic. 4 5 Chavez: No, nothing dramatic. 6 7 D. Garcia: Right, 8 9 Chavez: I mean just ... I mean just a wisp of color, just a shade lighter and to be 10 honest you would probably be the only ones that know because if 11 somebody's driving by your house you're not going to see that and stop by 12 and go, there's two colors. You're just going to see that it's almost one 13 color. 14 15 D. Garcia: But not only that, even for my ... for her I think it's like almost a 16 remembrance of hey we added this on you know. Well again, I agree with 17 you, if you do it too drastic it's ... it does the opposite effect. It almost 18 looks like well this is the historical district, well look at that house it looks 19 way off so you've got to be careful (inaudible). 20 21 Chavez: Very, very careful. 22 23 M. Garcia: I have a question. So say we go back and (inaudible) let's just tear the 24 shed down, and I'm not saying that we're going to do that, but if we did 25 then we need to come back right and look at it again with the setback and 26 ... 27 28 D. Garcia: But it's not even ... there's not enough room in the back. It does even ... 29 The ... I think the issue was even if that was you know, is the rear setback 30 ... even the rear home is already so close to the back. There's a lot more 31 front yard than there is rear in other words. 32 33 Barrett: And we weren't talking a significant setback but maybe three or four feet. 34 So ... 35 36 M. Garcia: I think we're about five feet from the shed right now. It's there ... 37 38 Barrett: But from the back wall are you ... 39 40 M. Garcia: From the back wall I think it's ... 41 42 D. Garcia: Ten. 43 44 Barrett: Ten. 45 46 M. Garcia: I think we measured it's eight. 14 1 2 Williams: It's 16.9 in the back line. 3 4 M. Garcia: Is it 16.9? Oh, okay. 5 6 Chavez: It's really (inaudible). 7 8 M. Garcia: Yeah it's a ... I wish the church would let me get their piece of property 9 that they don't do anything with. 10 11 D. Garcia: Well, you know, normally the City they want a bigger rear setback than 12 they do. 13 14 Williams: No it's typically the ... well I think it's a 10-foot rear ... 15 16 Montana: Five foot required. 17 18 D. Garcia: On the side. 19 20 Williams: Oh, on the back. 21 22 Montana: On the back. 23 24 D. Garcia: On the back. 25 26 Montana: And the side yard. 27 28 M. Garcia: Thank God it's more than that. 29 30 Montana: Yeah, yeah. 31 32 D. Garcia: And really, I mean ... well go ahead. 33 34 Williams: I was going to say when you re-stucco the existing house you're going to 35 stucco over the wood addition. 36 37 M. Garcia: Yes, I had that part. 38 39 Williams: The raised part. 40 41 M. Garcia: On top. Yeah. 42 43 D. Garcia: Oh yeah. 44 45 Williams: I think that'll make it (inaudible). 46 15 1 M. Garcia: That's where I'm talking about putting some sort of cool design like maybe 2 a New Mexico emblem or something cool that would look nice. 3 4 D. Garcia: I bought a home on Branson in '07, where I live and it was (inaudible) built 5 in 1960. Apparently it wasn't historical cause I just pulled permits and 6 boom. Well I did ... I had the wood like that and I re-stuccoed it all and it 7 looks awesome. 8 9 Barrett: Yeah, that'll look nice. 10 11 M. Garcia: Yeah, I'm really hoping stucco helps. 12 13 D. Garcia: And of course we're going to do a color like his shirt that keeps it the 14 Santa Fe look type, natural looks. 15 16 M. Garcia: Cause the neighbors' house I kind of want to match what they've got going 17 on. 18 19 Montana: Of course. 20 21 Kuhns: What about the two on Mesquite Street that were painted last week? 22 23 Montana: Oh yeah. 24 25 Kuhns: I like those. 26 27 Montana: Just north of Hadley. 28 29 Kuhns: Have you seen them? 30 31 Montana: It's got bright trim but it's ... 32 33 Kuhns: One is purple and the other is blue. 34 35 Montana: Trim, the trim. 36 37 Kuhns: Just kitty corner from Sunshine. 38 39 Montana: Two little casitas. 40 41 Chavez: Little casitas on the east side of the building. 42 43 Kuhns: Yeah, they look really cute. 44 45 Montana: Yeah, looks cute. 46 16 1 Kuhns: Really really cute. 2 3 Montana: Good improvement. 4 5 Kuhns: Ithought so. 6 7 Chavez: A little paint goes a long way. 8 9 Montana: Yeah. 10 11 D. Garcia: Paint. 12 13 M. Garcia: Yeah, paint does go a long way. 14 15 Barrett: So are there any other comments or observations from the Board? Does 16 someone want to attempt a motion? 17 18 Williams: Yeah I'll make ... I'll make a motion to approve the addition. 19 20 Kuhns: I'll second it. 21 22 Barrett: Okay, so Robert made the motion, Barbara seconded it and all in favor. 23 24 ALL: Aye. 25 26 Barrett: All opposed. None, so it passes. 27 28 Montana: Okay. 29 30 Barrett: Congratulations. 31 32 Chavez: Congratulations. 33 34 D. Garcia: We're not as stupid as we look. 35 36 Barrett: No. 37 38 Williams: No. 39 40 D. Garcia: I say that because I'm so tired. 41 42 Montana: You can submit your (inaudible). 43 44 D. Garcia: Oh to the ... 45 46 Montana: Community Development, Tommy. 17 1 2 D. Garcia: Yeah I ... well he saw them. He said he was okay except he wanted me 3 to draw the current (inaudible). 4 5 Montana: Alright, cool. 6 7 D. Garcia: Thank you guys for your time. 8 9 Chavez: Sure, good luck. 10 11 M. Garcia: Is there a time limit on how long I have to do this? 12 13 Chavez: A week. 14 15 Montana: Six months. The permit's good for six months but you could extend it. 16 17 D. Garcia: Nay, we'll be fine. 18 19 Chavez: We plan to go to your house for bizcochos and menudo (inaudible). 20 21 D. Garcia: Just walk in. 22 23 Kuhns: (inaudible) Carol. 24 25 Chavez: The church will tear down another adobe building and there's going to be 26 a murder. 27 28 M. Garcia: Well you know it's not (inaudible) tearing it down is like well do something 29 it's all parking lot. 30 31 D. Garcia: (inaudible) 32 33 M. Garcia: It's all parking lot; I'm not even for tearing it down, just do something with 34 it. They started a fire in there not too long ago. The kids are all ... cats 35 are ... 36 37 Kuhns: When did they do that? 38 39 D. Garcia: You know that's the bad thing when something's abandoned that 40 neighborhood people know about it. 41 42 M. Garcia: The last summer, little kids. 43 44 Chavez: Oh, I think you guys remember when we had all those arsons. 45 46 D. Garcia: Yeah. 18 1 2 M. Garcia: Yeah, right there. We actually ... 3 4 Chavez: All those houses that are boarded up, it's like a wakeup call to the arson 5 (inaudible), well let's burn. 6 7 M. Garcia: Well, we actually reported a Fre in there. They got there really fast, but 8 there were little kids in there all the time. So 1, yeah ... 9 10 Chavez: Well it's good that you guys are neighbors to keep an eye on it. 11 12 M. Garcia: Yeah. 13 14 Chavez: But you know if there's ever a chance that that thing comes up for sale, 1 15 mean that would be a nice addition for you all. 16 17 M. Garcia: Yes it would cause it's very small but it's still ... 18 19 D. Garcia: We could build a little ... 20 21 M. Garcia: I just don't want it to turn into a parking lot. 22 23 Chavez: There's land between the buildings, right between your house and that ... 24 25 M. Garcia: Yes. 26 27 Chavez: Is that part of the ... is that part of the house? 28 29 Kuhns: The duplex, yeah, it belongs to the church. 30 31 M. Garcia: And Henry. I go to church there every once in a while. They're a lively 32 group. I like them. Thank you. 33 34 Chavez: Thank you. 35 36 D. Garcia: Thank you guys. 37 38 Barrett: Thank you. 39 40 M. Garcia: It was nice meeting you all. 41 42 D. Garcia: Thank you. 43 44 M. Garcia: Stop by any time. You know where I live. 45 46 Montana: I'll be sending you a letter that describes the decision the Board's made. 19 1 2 M. Garcia: Okay. 3 4 Montana: I'll get that to Tommy. 5 6 M. Garcia: We know you have to do it. 7 8 D. Garcia: Yeah, you know how it is; it's not real until it's in writing. I heard them say 9 aye. 10 11 M. Garcia: It was nice meeting you all. 12 13 D. Garcia: See you all. 14 15 Montana: All right. 16 17 Williams: Goodbye. 18 19 Montana: Good luck. 20 21 IV. OLD BUSINESS - NONE 22 23 1. A discussion of potential proposed amendments to the Municipal Code, 24 Article V, Section 3849.2 South Mesquite Neighborhood Overlay Zone 25 District to enact text changes which represent substantive changes to the 26 overlay district zoning regulations. 27 28 Barrett: And so the next item on the agenda, unless anybody needs a break. 29 30 Chavez: It's just a little warm in here. 31 32 Barrett: It is a little warm but I don't think there's anything we can do. 33 34 Montana: It's off. 35 36 Baum: I double checked it's on cool. 37 38 Montana: Oh, it's on cool. 39 40 Barrett: So Susana do you want to lead us through the Municipal Code. 41 42 Montana: Yeah, we're almost done. 43 44 Barrett: Yeah. 45 20 1 Montana: We're almost done, but we wanted to ask Heather, in particular, a couple 2 of questions. We're looking at the matrix. 3 4 Barrett: Yes. 5 6 Montana: And on the first page, I numbered them this time, we highlighted halfway 7 house. 8 9 Barrett: Okay. 10 11 Montana: We're not sure if we want ... right now it's a special use permit but do we 12 even want halfway houses in South Mesquite? 13 14 Williams: Well, I read the minutes and I saw in there about the difference between 15 the special use or the conditional use and the conditional use requires that 16 there's a public meeting, is that correct? 17 18 Montana: A special use permit does. 19 20 Williams: Oh, the special use permit does, okay. 21 22 Montana: Conditional use just means there are conditions like it needs to be on a 23 collector road or arterial, that sort of thing. 24 25 Williams: Okay. So I don't ...I personally don't have an issue with a halfway house. 26 1 mean ... I think it kind of depends on how large and things like that but in 27 our area they're not going to be very big. 28 29 Montana: No. 30 31 Williams: It's only going to be a few people. I'd rather see a property get developed 32 and used whether it's a halfway house or not, than not be used at all. 33 34 Chavez: And one of the reasons why this was brought up originally is that I think all 35 of us remember the incident in Mesilla Park and so that ... we didn't want 36 to see that; we want to be the same as Mesilla Park and so if there's a 37 facility to help individuals and there is a building that can be rehabbed 1 38 don't see a problem. I think today those individuals are in that structure in 39 Mesilla Park. I have not heard of any activity or anything like that and it 40 was because the neighbors just went ballistic. 41 42 Montana: Yeah. 43 44 Chavez: And it was misinformation and so we just want to be ahead of the curve 45 here and do the right thing. 46 21 1 Barrett: Okay, so I'm going to play the devil's advocate. I think the condition of 10 2 people, to me that seems like it could be excessive, which was discussed 3 in the minutes I guess. I don't see it here. 4 5 Montana: Right. 6 7 Barrett: I understand where you're coming from but I also think we all need to be 8 realistic that some of these people ... I mean there can be some instability 9 there, perhaps, so I think further discussion ... I don't know how you 10 control that situation where it gets ugly and ... but I would think the 11 neighbors might want to comment. 12 13 Kuhns: Yeah, I support that a hundred percent. 14 15 Williams: Oh, I do too. 16 17 Chavez: Oh, yeah. 18 19 Kuhns: And that's why I really like the special use permit. 20 21 Barrett: And then the condition which was mentioned in the meeting of the 10 22 people, is there a way to make it five or you know can we do that or is that 23 done through the special use permit? 24 25 Montana: Yeah, the special use permit gives discretion to the Planning Commission 26 to condition it. 27 28 Barrett: Okay. 29 30 Montana: So it could be five, it could be 10. 31 32 Barrett: Okay. 33 34 Montana: Any number, the applicant usually will say our plans are to have five or 10. 35 36 Barrett: Okay. 37 38 Montana: And then right now the special use permits require what we call early 39 notification, neighborhood meetings for these kinds of projects. So they 40 would have to have a neighborhood meeting and staff gives them the 41 mailing names and addresses of property owners within 500-foot radius of 42 the site. They have to invite those people to a meeting before they 43 submit. Then they generally get an idea of you know what would be 44 acceptable to the neighborhood. I had one halfway house I worked on in 45 the Alameda Depot neighborhood. The neighbors were going to protest. 46 They said we'll harass you every day if you locate here. So that operator 22 1 found another location and they had their early notification meeting at the 2 new location and the neighbors said fine, you know. They were only going 3 to have five people there in the home and so it worked out for them. 4 5 Chavez: I have a question. The operator, isn't usually that the City of Las Cruces? 6 Because the City ... doesn't the City ... 7 8 Montana: It can be a nonprofit. 9 10 Chavez: It can be a nonprofit. 11 12 Montana: Yes. 13 14 Chavez: All they do is go in and rehab the building and so they're trying to help 15 these individuals and don't they go through a screening process 16 obviously? 17 18 Montana: Well, each operator or applicant has their own screening process. The 19 one I worked on was a religious organization. 20 21 Chavez: Wasn't the one in Mesilla Park part of the City of Las Cruces? 22 23 Montana: That was not a halfway house. What that was ... the City contracted with 24 a nonprofit and the nonprofit purchased the house from the City to rent to 25 women who were formerly homeless so it's not a halfway house, they 26 were just roommates, so it wasn't a halfway house. It's just a house that 27 had roommates. 28 29 Chavez: Well, I guess my terminology I was using that as an example. 30 31 Montana: Yeah. 32 33 Chavez: So I don't know what it's called. I just figured it was a halfway house. 34 That is what the example I'm stating is. 35 36 Montana: Yeah. 37 38 Chavez: That type of facility here, not necessarily a halfway house. 39 40 Montana: Okay. 41 42 Chavez: I mean I don't know what the difference is ... 43 44 Montana: Yeah, well that type of 45 46 Kuhns: Huge. 23 1 2 Montana: Yeah, huge. 3 4 Kuhns: A halfway house could be a place where people that get out of rehab from 5 heroin addiction, meth addiction, and they go somewhere to get used to 6 being in ... 7 8 Chavez: Back in life, back in society. 9 10 Montana: Or incarcerated, formally incarcerated. 11 12 Chavez: So my terminology was Mesilla Park facility and I don't know what you call 13 ... 14 15 Montana: That was just a house that got rented to. 16 17 Chavez: Okay, well that was such a mess at City Hall and they were calling it a 18 halfway house. 19 20 Montana: Well, the problem was the City bought a foreclosed house through HUD 21 monies to do a residential rehab and they put a sign out front saying 22 residential rehab. That was their mistake. It wasn't a rehab facility, it was 23 a ... you know we rehab the house but that got the whole neighbors up in 24 arms and that did not require a public hearing. 25 26 Chavez: But it sure went to City Hall. 27 28 Montana: For the contract, for the nonprofit to purchase the house from the City. So 29 that can happen in any house where a nonprofit rents it and then lets 30 roommates live together. 31 32 Williams: The question I have is, how do they determine the number of people 33 allowed, is it by ... I mean because if you have a 500-square foot house 34 you can't put 10 people in that or you shouldn't anyway, that would be too 35 much. You know that's what I'm saying; in our area the houses are small. 36 37 Chavez: I don't know; they got a family of 40 in that house. 38 39 Kuhns: Her house has 20 people in it. 40 41 Montana: The Commission, well the applicant might have a State license and State 42 would determine it or the Planning Commission can determine how many 43 people they thought would be appropriate based on you know the building 44 code and based on neighbor concerns and that sort of thing. If it's a 45 special use permit all of that is discretionary. 46 24 1 Chavez: Would it determine the square foot of that building ... 2 3 Montana: The Commission ... 4 5 Chavez: Depending on the bathrooms and the bedroom facilities, that would be a 6 determination of how many people are going to be allowed. So it's just 7 one bedroom, so one person per bedroom ... 8 9 Montana: Not necessarily. I mean you have bunk beds; some of these facilities 10 have bunk beds. 11 12 Barrett: And does this go ... does this come before us as well as the Planning and 13 Zoning? 14 15 Montana: The special use permit would. 16 17 Barrett: Okay. 18 19 Chavez: So it would come here ... 20 21 Montana: Yeah. 22 23 Chavez: To us first before it goes to ... 24 25 Montana: Planning Commission. 26 27 Chavez: Okay. 28 29 Montana: And then it ends at the Planning Commission. 30 31 Barrett: So I'm comfortable with saying special use permit that is reviewed, the 32 neighbors have some say in it, you get to see the plan of what 33 everybody's proposing, who's going to be there, how many people, that 34 gets us some control. 35 36 Williams: I agree. 37 38 Chavez: I agree also. 39 40 Kuhns: Iagree. 41 42 Montana: Okay, so that is good; next, page two, similar, temporary homeless 43 shelter. Now that is for people not necessarily formerly drug addicts or 44 formerly incarcerated or formerly any of that, it's just people who lose their 45 housing and we made it conditional 10 or fewer, but you may also want to 46 make that special use too. 25 1 2 Barrett: I think so. 3 4 Williams: What is temporary mean? I mean ... 5 6 Chavez: Is there a limit of days? 7 8 Montana: We don't have a definition for temporary. Usually it's 30 days or less, but 9 ... 10 11 Williams: But that ... but ... 12 13 Montana: For a homeless shelter it could be ... 14 15 Williams: What's the 30 days? I mean can it be a homeless shelter only for 30 days 16 or then ... 17 18 Montana: No, no, no, each person staying. 19 20 Williams: Okay, 21 22 Barrett: So people are in and out. 23 24 Montana: Yeah in and out. A lot of these have a seven day limit so you're there 25 seven days and then you're on the street again for a day and then they 26 come back for seven days so it kind of cycles. 27 28 Barrett: I think special use permit again to me. 29 30 Kuhns: Iagree. 31 32 Williams: I agree. 33 34 Montana: That way you could suggest the tenancy and you know what kind of 35 programs would be available for them to get back on their feet and that 36 sort of thing. All right we're going to make those special use permits and 1 37 think we had a recreational court, page four. 38 39 Barrett: And let's talk about pickle ball. 40 41 Montana: Yeah, you know I asked our new ... 42 43 Williams: Pickle ball? 44 45 Montana: Recreation department about that and he hadn't heard of it yet. 46 26 1 Barrett: I've heard of it but we were all supposed to do research on how loud it is 2 and what it involves. 3 4 Chavez: The only thing I found on it is out of New York and they have courts for 5 that. 6 7 Kuhns: It's everywhere. It's everywhere. Surprise Arizona has huge 8 tournaments. It's huge. 9 10 Chavez: It just hasn't got here yet. 11 12 Kuhns: Yeah it is here. They play five days a week at Meerscheidt. 13 14 Barrett: So can you ... 15 16 Chavez: Well she just got done saying she talked to the ... 17 18 Montana: Well he's a new director. 19 20 Chavez: Oh. 21 22 Kuhns: No, it is here. It's been here for years. They play five days a week. 23 24 Montana: At Meerscheidt. 25 26 Kuhns: At Meerscheidt and Thursday is the ... 27 28 Montana: Tournament. 29 30 Kuhns: Get to know pickle ball, they ... for beginners. And it is what ... it is an 31 aerobic sport that's easy on your joints. 32 33 Barrett: Is it loud, is that what we're concerned? 34 35 Kuhns: Not that loud but ... 36 37 Chavez: Have you gone? 38 39 Kuhns: Just once. I was telling Susana at our last meeting that that day of our last 40 meeting they had an article in the paper, in the New York Times about it 41 because many communities are converting their tennis courts to pickle ball 42 courts, and neighbors complained of the noise and the courts upheld the 43 city's right to turn it into a pickle ball court. 44 45 Montana: So the neighbors felt that pickle ball was noisier than tennis. 46 27 1 Kuhns: I think so and it's a very social game. It's a lot more social than tennis. 2 3 Montana: Also there's whooping and hollering. 4 5 Kuhns: Chatting yeah and ... 6 7 Chavez: There's not music or anything involved with this? 8 9 Kuhns: No. 10 11 Barrett: (inaudible) 12 13 Montana: Well should we make it a special use? 14 15 Kuhns: Well, I'm in favor of communities, neighborhoods being asked for their 16 input you know, I like that in some respects. I don't know if it's a bigger 17 hassle but ... 18 19 Barrett: Probably is. 20 21 Kuhns: You know I've lived in old Bisbee and somebody renovated a carwash and 22 it was a nightmare and then it was a conditional use or something but then 23 when it came in front of some board or something and the neighbors, we 24 were all there complaining about it. Because not only was the carwash 25 noisy but people liked to turn their radios up while they vacuumed and 26 things like that and I just like it when the neighborhood is asked for input. 27 28 Barrett: Well, and these aren't existing courts, they would be coming in. It's not 29 like somebody has moved into a neighborhood that has the tennis courts 30 there already. 31 32 Montana: Right. 33 34 Barrett: These would be coming in. My biggest concern is the lighting and the 35 noise, that's another concern. 36 37 Chavez: I think our lots here are so small that we wouldn't be able to ... 38 39 Montana: Yeah. 40 41 Chavez: To actually accommodate any of these sports in the residential area. If 42 they're existing now they're exactly where they belong or ... cause they 43 have the space but our lots here are too small, I mean ... 44 45 Kuhns: And they're not going to duplicate the services at (inaudible) 46 28 1 Chavez: They're not and then the thing is, doesn't even ... if they can find the 2 space then we have a parking issue. So it's almost like a catch-22, you 3 know it's not going to happen. I think it's something that we have to have 4 in the books I believe, but realistically I don't think ... 5 6 Montana: You don't have to have it but then you could make your special use. 7 8 Barrett: I'd be okay with special use. 9 10 Kuhns: Yeah, yet the neighbors. 11 12 Chavez: We'll put one across from your house. Get rid of that pink place. 13 14 Kuhns: Well there's that empty lot. 15 16 Williams: Yeah, now that they just tore down the adobe. 17 18 Kuhns: Yeah, there are two empty lots actually. 19 20 Barrett: So why not add ... 21 22 Kuhns: A halfway house. 23 24 Montana: All right on page seven then we'll also make that a ... it's the same thing, 25 public so we'll make that a special use. I think we're almost ... 26 27 Chavez: Page 10. 28 29 Montana: Okay, page 10, restaurants, cafe, cafeteria, pick-up and delivery are 30 prohibited, weren't sure about that. 31 32 Chavez: I pick up my coffee at Beck's. That's pick up. That's not drive thru but 1 33 have to park the car, go in and get my coffee and I leave. So most 34 restaurants, La Casita, Nopalitos, you call in an order, you're picking it up 35 and you're leaving. So this pick-up and delivery prohibited, I think that's 36 just no ... 37 38 Williams: 1 agree. 39 40 Barrett: I think pick-up, I agree with that. Delivery, I think you have to be careful 41 because what if we've got a Domino's that is more like a chain and you've 42 got drivers in and out of there all the time. 43 44 Chavez: That's true but what's to say that Nopalitos and Las Casita doesn't start 45 having the service saying we're going to deliver your Mexican food to your 46 door? 29 1 2 Montana: Or Roscoe's Bar-B-Que. 3 4 Chavez: Yes or Beck's. You're buying coffee, we'll deliver your whatever so ... 5 6 Barrett: But I guess ... 7 8 Chavez: I think we're limiting ... 9 10 Barrett: Yeah. 11 12 Chavez: I mean we're trying to make sure that we try to save and develop 13 businesses in our district and so we just keep on chipping away at their 14 services. Pick-up, I pick-up over there already and I pick-up from both 15 restaurants. Delivery would be fantastic, I could call up Nopalitos, can you 16 delivery me an order of enchiladas, that would be fantastic. It would just 17 give them more service. 18 19 Barrett: I guess again this is kind of like we're never going to have a Domino's 20 right in the heart of Mesquite. 21 22 Williams: Yeah. 23 24 Barrett: You know. 25 26 Chavez: Yeah. 27 28 Williams: They're going ... yeah. 29 30 Chavez: Well I mean to put a Domino's would require a large lot because you're 31 going to have parking. 32 33 Williams: Yeah. 34 35 Chavez: The facility itself, and then ... so we just don't have the ... there again we 36 don't have the square footage unless it's on Amador ... on Alameda, no, 37 Amador or Lohman, that is more accessible and that would be fine, cause 38 that's a business district. 39 40 Kuhns: Right. 41 42 Chavez: On Mesquite Street. 43 44 Williams: The only place I could think of where Domino's would fit would be the 45 building right there on ... that engine shop on ... 46 30 1 Chavez: Cruces and Mesquite Street. 2 3 Williams: Yeah. 4 5 Chavez: Yeah, that would be the only spot. 6 7 Williams: That's the only place that's big enough. 8 9 Chavez: That just got sold. 10 11 Kuhns: It did? 12 13 Williams: Yeah, they were doing something there yesterday. 14 15 Chavez: Somebody, they took the sold sign, I mean they took the sign off and it 16 sold, somebody's working in it. I don't know what it's going to be, great. 17 18 Montana: So why don't we make it allowed R-4 through C-2. 19 20 Kuhns: Okay. 21 22 Barrett: Okay. 23 24 Chavez: We just don't have those kinds of services in our neighborhood. It'd be 25 great ... both restaurants including the Vietnamese restaurant would offer. 26 27 Kuhns: Oh yeah. 28 29 Chavez: That'd be fantastic. 30 31 Montana: They may need to. 32 33 Chavez: Yeah, we're stuck in the middle of town and we just don't have ... we have 34 to go elsewhere to get that stuff. Right Barbara, you agree? 35 36 Montana: Okay, so going down to convenience store, drive up and delivery, and/or 37 delivery prohibited. 38 39 Barrett: What are they ... 40 41 Kuhns: You know what's funny about that is there's a drive up at the gas station, 42 the new one. 43 44 Montana: Pic Quik. 45 46 Chavez: Pic Quik. 31 1 2 Montana: That has a drive thru. 3 4 Kuhns: And what do you get in that drive thru? 5 6 Montana: Anything ... 7 8 Chavez: Everything. 9 10 Kuhns: Whatever you want. 11 12 Chavez: Yeah. 13 14 Montana: You can get lottery tickets. 15 16 Chavez: You can get lottery tickets, you can ask for a gallon of milk, bars of soda, 17 soap, you just tell the lady, she picks it up, takes it, she gives it to you, you 18 pay for it, and you drive off. 19 20 Barrett: But that's on a main road. 21 22 Chavez: That's on a main drag. 23 24 Montana: Yeah. 25 26 Kuhns: I support the way it is now. Drive up and/or delivery prohibited. 27 28 Chavez: Well I don't think we have any convenience stores in the Mesquite district. 29 30 Kuhns: Yes we do. 31 32 Chavez: Which one? 33 34 Kuhns: The Welcome Inn. 35 36 Chavez: That's not in our district. 37 38 Kuhns: Oh, it's not? 39 40 Chavez: No ma'am. 41 42 Williams: No but the ... I mean the Sunshine market could be you know if it ever 43 opens again, could sort of be a (inaudible). 44 45 Kuhns: Oh, it could open next week, Robert. 46 32 1 Chavez: It's not been open for 10 years. 2 3 Williams: I know. We'll it's getting cleaner. 4 5 Montana: It's a special use ... it's a PUD, planned unit development. A few years 6 ago they were allowed to retain the grocery store and add a little cafe. So 7 there won't be any drive-thru but there might be ... 8 9 Williams: Delivery. 10 11 Montana: Delivery. 12 13 Chavez: But it would fall under the same thing as the restaurants. 14 15 Williams: Yeah, that's what I think. 16 17 Montana: Yeah cause the restaurant ... 18 19 Chavez: And the restaurant's going to be able to do it. I mean ... 20 21 Montana: Yeah. 22 23 Chavez: We don't have a convenience store in the district period. 24 25 Williams: I don't know that we would every get one, again the same thing, there's no 26 parking ... 27 28 Chavez: We don't have the traffic. There's not enough traffic on Mesquite Street or 29 Campo to have a major convenience store. So I don't (inaudible) 30 31 Kuhns: Well, we still need to ... we still need to qualify what would be allowed, so 1 32 am in favor of the convenience store, no gas sales, drive up and delivery 33 prohibited. I'm in favor of that. 34 35 Chavez: I'm for ... 36 37 Williams: I'm also in favor ... 38 39 Chavez: The delivery and pick up, but no gas for convenience. 40 41 Kuhns: Right. 42 43 Chavez: So no gas but you can deliver and pick up cause you've got to ... 44 45 Montana: What about drive thru? 46 33 1 Chavez: That would have to be a special use permit I would say because if there's 2 space for it ... 3 4 Williams: See and that's a ... that's a ... the drive up is, I don't think of that as the 5 same thing you're thinking of. The drive up is a drive thru. 6 7 Kuhns: Drive thru. 8 9 Montana: Drive thru. 10 11 Williams: So it's like, that's not pick up, its drive thru. 12 13 Chavez: It's drive thru. Cause if you go to a convenience store ... 14 15 Kuhns: Go to a convenience store ... 16 17 Chavez: You're picking up. 18 19 Montana: Yeah, a convenience store is picking up. 20 21 Williams: Yeah. 22 23 Chavez: It's picking up. 24 25 Montana: But how about delivery? 26 27 Kuhns: I don't care about delivery. 28 29 Williams: Delivery is fine. 30 31 Kuhns: Yeah. 32 33 Montana: It doesn't bother you. 34 35 Kuhns: Especially if we have elderly people that need their medicines delivered. 36 37 Chavez: Or food. 38 39 Kuhns: Yeah, I like delivery. 40 41 Chavez: All the old grocery stores in the district used to have these ... at 12 years 42 old on the corner of Cruces Avenue and Mesquite Sada Serna Store; 1 43 was 12 years old delivering groceries to people in the neighborhood. That 44 was my job. 45 46 Montana: Nice. 34 1 2 Chavez: And so, yeah ... 3 4 Montana: So no drive thru but delivery and pick up okay. 5 6 Williams: Yes. 7 8 Barrett: I'll be okay with that. 9 10 Kuhns: That's what I'm in favor with. 11 12 Williams: And I'm also okay with staying with conditional use on it. 13 14 Chavez: Yeah. 15 16 Montana: All right. 17 18 Kuhns: Yeah. 19 20 Montana: Okay. 21 22 Kuhns: Agree. 23 24 Montana: Conditional ... the condition is no drive thru. 25 26 Barrett: Right. 27 28 Williams: Yeah. 29 30 Montana: Okay, alright, moving down to the delicatessen, produce, meat market 31 with eating facilities. 32 33 Barrett: I think it's similar to the cafe, cafeteria but could we call it pick up instead 34 of drive up. 35 36 Montana: Yeah. 37 38 Williams: Yeah. 39 40 Montana: Drive thru. 41 42 Williams: No drive thru. 43 44 Montana: No drive thru. 45 46 Barrett: No drive thru. 35 1 2 Montana: But pick-up and delivery okay. 3 4 Williams: Yes. 5 6 Montana: Okay. 7 8 Williams: Are we also changing ... are we going to keep that a condition or are 9 going to change it to ... 10 11 Montana: Well the condition ... it's not a special use, it's just a condition, the 12 condition is no drive thru. 13 14 Williams: Oh, I got you, okay. 15 16 Kuhns: What a sign of the times because there was a meat market on the 17 downtown mall ... 18 19 Chavez: Dutch's Meat Market. 20 21 Kuhns: And the meat market on the top of Mesquite. 22 23 Williams: Yeah. 24 25 Montana: Yeah. 26 27 Kuhns: And ... 28 29 Montana: There's still one on Solano and ... 30 31 Barrett: Yeah there is. 32 33 Kuhns: There is. 34 35 Chavez: Well, actually that's pretty good. I've gone in there for ... I was lost and 36 needed something and I went in there and the price ... they had a sale 37 and I hardly ever have meat and it wasn't bad, it was very good and very 38 fresh and they were courteous. 39 40 Montana: Alright, well we are finished with these amendments. The next step is for 41 me to describe them to our management, the zoning review team and 42 come back to you if there are any problems; that would be in July. In 43 August we were going to have neighborhood meetings, a daytime one at 44 the East Side center and a nighttime one in Weed and Seed. So ... 45 46 Kuhns: When in August? 36 1 2 Montana: I think mid-August. I haven't booked the rooms yet. 3 4 Kuhns: I'll be gone for the first two weeks but if it's after that I will go ... 5 6 Montana: Okay. 7 8 Kuhns: In support of you. 9 10 Montana: Okay, we would love that. 11 12 Kuhns: Well I think that ... 13 14 Chavez: We're going to need everybody there ... 15 16 Kuhns: Yeah. 17 18 Montana: Yeah. 19 20 Kuhns: We really are. 21 22 Montana: I have ... I brought my calendar so, let me go get that. 23 24 Barrett: And Susana what about some of the issues of ... I don't think we've 25 resolved the whole second story language and all that for the ... 26 27 Montana: Oh, okay. 28 29 Chavez: Oh, that's right. 30 31 Barrett: For the actual standards and stuff. 32 33 Montana: Yeah, let's see ... I have that. I have extra copies we can take a look at it 34 now. 35 36 Kuhns: (inaudible) why is it I never put it in my calendar and it's like, when am 1 37 going, when am I coming home, cause I get them on sale. They've been 38 so expensive this year. But I know I won't be back till probably around 39 August 16th or 17th. 40 41 Barrett: So is this something we could review and discuss next time or? 42 43 Montana: We could do it now if we ... let's refresh ourselves. We said on page 44 Roman numeral five-202, development standards. We said 15 ... 14-feet 45 and no more than one story and this is throughout. 46 37 1 Barrett: Okay and ... 2 3 Montana: And if they wanted more they had to come and ask for a variance. 4 5 Barrett: Okay and you and I had talked about developing some kind of language 6 about encouraging ... well, okay, so does that even need to be in there. 7 So I'm kind of thinking as I go ... 8 9 Kuhns: That's fine because I'm thinking of somethings with those thoughts too. 10 11 Barrett: So you and I had talked about some kind of language in there 12 encouraging people to really try hard to just do the one story and not seek 13 a variance. And we didn't do that to my knowledge and I'm just wondering 14 is that something that would be helpful, is that overkill? 15 16 Montana: Okay. Any request for a greater building height and/or number of stories 17 than those stated above requiring application for a height acceptance to 18 be reviewed and approved by this Board and those shall meet the design 19 criteria. Let's go to the design criteria, 38-49 2K which is ... 20 21 Kuhns: Looks like the design guidelines, start on page Roman numeral five 234. 22 23 Montana: Yeah. Okay, ordinary maintenance, design standards, second story 24 elements ... 25 26 Barrett: Oh, there's something in black on criteria for requesting and granting 27 building height exceptions. 28 29 Montana: What page? 30 31 Barrett: On 235, looks like you have it in black. 32 33 Montana: Oh. Oh, that's cause we haven't done it yet. 34 35 Barrett: Okay, so that's where that would go. 36 37 Montana: Yeah so we still have to draft that. 38 39 Barrett: So ... 40 41 Montana: You want to draft something and send it around to us or you and Robert 42 want to work on something. 43 44 Barrett: Would you be willing to? 45 46 Williams: I'd be willing if someone ... we've got to do like an initial one. 38 1 2 Barrett: Okay, I can start something and then we can start a conversation. 3 4 Montana: Send it around. Yeah. Okay. 5 6 Williams: Okay. As with you know certain, I guess, point of works, like I personally 7 don't have an issue going to a second floor but ... I mean not on 8 everything necessarily but again I'd rather see people use ... or people 9 move into the neighborhood, you know and if that's something that takes it 10 as long as we're not losing something. You know I'm okay with it. 11 12 Montana: So that'd be new construction you mean or? 13 14 Williams: Well not so much new construction ... there are ways to do a second story 15 in an area that's primarily one story that can look, but you wouldn't want to 16 just do a two story right on the street cause then it'll look out of place, but 17 if you have setbacks on the second floor or something like that ... 18 19 Kuhns: Oh yeah. 20 21 Williams: You can make it look okay. 22 23 Barrett: I don't disagree and that's why I don't think we should completely 24 eliminate the option. 25 26 Williams: Yeah. 27 28 Barrett: But from a preservationist standpoint the streetscape, again the massing 29 the scale, that's all very important when you're looking at the character of 30 a neighborhood and what I don't want to see, which I think has happened 31 in the past, is that we are going up and there are some kind of strange 32 configurations going on and when it's a little bit ... to me it is a two story 33 addition and we're not talking variances or we're not even talking about 34 this, they're just coming in to us as ... 35 36 Chavez: A split-level. 37 38 Barrett: A split-level, a loft ... 39 40 Montana: That's my house. 41 42 Barrett: And I know your house is ... yeah, your house was kind of ... was one of 43 the ones that ... and I think it looks pretty good. I still have ... 44 45 Montana: You only see a little bit. 46 39 1 Barrett: Yeah. No. 2 3 Williams: Yeah. 4 5 Barrett: And I think that's okay. I just don't think we're going to want to see that 6 throughout the neighborhood ... 7 8 Williams: Yeah. 9 10 Barrett: Start coming in to play if people can build to the rear. 11 12 Williams: Yeah. 13 14 Barrett: And that's where I'm wanting a little more control. 15 16 Montana: Okay. Well, see if you can come up with some language. It's good cause 17 you both have a different opinion, so maybe you could work you know 18 something out and we can make ... they're just guidelines. 19 20 Barrett: Right. 21 22 Montana: Put it in the guidelines section. 23 24 Barrett: Right. 25 26 Williams: Yeah. 27 28 Barrett: And it's not like we're ruling this out. 29 30 Montana: Yeah. 31 32 Barrett: I just think ... I want people to think about it a little more. 33 34 Chavez: And on the other side I mean devil's advocate. 35 36 Barrett: Sure. 37 38 Chavez: And I totally understand where you're coming from but some of these folks 39 have these houses where there isn't a lot of room to expand. 40 41 Barrett: No, there isn't. 42 43 Chavez: So the new idea, the new thinking is go under a little bit and to do a split- 44 level because the (inaudible) otherwise they're going to sell and leave and 45 then we have a vacant structure in the neighborhood and then somebody 46 else is going to want to do the same thing and we don't allow it. 40 1 2 Montana: Yeah. 3 4 Chavez: So we need to be flexible enough to ... 5 6 Montana: Or they'll tear it down. 7 8 Chavez: If they're willing to save the front of the building historically and maybe 9 even have to raise the parapet just a hair bit so you don't see the new 10 deal, and you know how everything's a shotgun in our neighborhood just 11 about, but you don't see anything other than ... 12 13 Montana: Well that could be the guidelines. 14 15 Chavez: Barbara can see the neighbor next door. They did that to her house and 16 it's not that bad. 17 18 Kuhns: About? 19 20 Montana: About digging down. 21 22 Barrett: Which is what you (inaudible). 23 24 Kuhns: Do you know how tall that house is? 25 26 Montana: My house? 27 28 Kuhns: Is it 11 feet of, is it 14? 29 30 Montana: I'm sure it's 14, right. 31 32 Barrett: It's 14. 33 34 Chavez: My house in the front is 14. 35 36 Montana: But my basement is like five feet down. 37 38 Barrett: Yeah, cause they dug down. 39 40 Montana: Yeah, they dug down. I get cockroaches every day. 41 42 Chavez: Bomb. 43 44 Montana: No, slipper. 45 41 1 Barrett: Yeah and just one more comment. I think we need to be aware that the 2 advice we got from the historic preservation division is to be careful about 3 allowing this to happen. 4 5 Montana: Allowing which? 6 7 Barrett: Allowing the ... 8 9 Chavez: Split-level. 10 11 Barrett: Split levels and a lot of the kind of second stories. And they warned us 12 about that and you can delist districts. So I mean there are some reasons 13 why we've got to be a little careful about this. 14 15 Montana: Okay. Well that's good to ... 16 17 Kuhns: Well, you know, that sort of made it and I don't ... I sort of would want this 18 off the record if that's possible ... to decide on theirs it was difficult, 1 19 wanted them to fix up their house but the two across the street are just so 20 perfect. 21 22 Chavez: Bad. 23 24 Kuhns: No. Those two ... the (inaudible). Never been remodeled. They are just 25 authentic you know. 26 27 Barrett: Right. 28 29 Kuhns: And so I was really torn up ... 30 31 Williams: (inaudible) 32 33 Kuhns: I was really torn up you know about theirs but then there's also that 34 duplex, so it's not like the corner is like that. 35 36 Williams: Yeah. 37 38 Montana: Yeah, 39 40 Barrett: Okay so we're going to work on it. 41 42 Montana: Yeah. We're going to work on it. 43 44 Kuhns: Did you look into, last month David had mentioned that one of our 45 neighbors got a permit to put up a wall and the lady that gave them the 46 permit talked to them about color? 42 1 Chavez: We got that figured out. 2 3 Montana: That didn't happen. We didn't require any particular color. 4 5 Kuhns: Oh, okay. 6 7 Montana: Yeah, no, that was maybe ... 8 9 Kuhns: Misinformation. 10 11 Montana: Yeah, that wasn't part of the permit. 12 13 Williams: This is off the record too but ... 14 15 Baum: Well do you want to end the meeting and you can take it off the record? 16 17 Barrett: So thank you. 18 19 Chavez: So moved. 20 21 V. DISCUSSION OF OTHER ITEMS 22 23 VI. ADJOURNMENT (7:19) 24 25 Barrett: At 7:19 p.m. we are adjourning and going off the record. 26 27 28 29 30 30 31 Chairperson 43