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09-18-2014 1 SOUTH MESQUITE DESIGN REVIEW BOARD 2 September 18, 2014 at 6:00 p.m. 3 4 Following are verbatim minutes of the South Mesquite Design Review Board meeting 5 held September 18, 2014 in 2007-A, City Hall, 700 N. Main Street, Las Cruces, NM 6 88001. 7 8 MEMBERS PRESENT: Faith Hutson 9 Robert Williams 10 David Chavez (arrived 6:13) 11 Barbara Kuhns 12 13 STAFF PRESENT: Susana Montana, CLC Planner 14 Becky Baum, RC Creations, LLC, Recording Sec. 15 16 OTHERS PRESENT: Dolores Archuleta (President Las Esperanzas) 17 Lome Meeks 18 Robert Cummins 19 Nancy Akbari 20 21 I. CALL TO ORDER 22 23 Williams: Call the meeting to order at 6:06 p.m. 24 25 Il. APPROVAL OF MINUTES -July 17, 2014 26 27 Williams: And first up on the agenda is approval of the minutes for the July 17th 28 meeting. 29 30 Baum: And can they do that without four people? 31 32 Williams: If we've got a majority. 33 34 Baum: If they can't, I think they have to put that off. 35 36 Kuhns: We're only a four-person Board. 37 38 Montana: We're only a four-person Board and now we have a majority. 39 40 Baum: Okay. You win. Sorry. 41 42 Montana: So are you recording now. 43 44 Baum: Oh yes. We're all ready. 45 1 1 Hutson: On page 2. I'm not sure if this is what this is supposed to say but it's the 2 ... sentence says ... 3 4 Baum: Line. Sorry. 5 6 Hutson: Oh, line 17. 7 8 Baum: Thank you. 9 10 Hutson: "Should as be a". 11 12 Montana: Page 2. 13 14 Hutson: Page 2, line 17. "Came before you that were as part", should it say "a part 15 of the expanded work load". Okay and then on page 3, 43, dilapidated is 16 spelled wrong. 17 18 Montana: Yeah. 19 20 Hutson: And then on page 7, line 17, it says "You know lower", but I think that's 21 supposed to say "more than 60 days", not"lower than 60 days". 22 23 Montana: I don't think we can get very far from ... with requesting ... 24 25 Hutson: Lower than ... 26 27 Montana: "You know, you know lower than 60 days." 28 29 Hutson: Did you mean to say "lower', cause we don't want less, we wanted more. 30 Shouldn't that say more than 60 days? 31 32 Montana: Well it's not what I said. Maybe it's not what I said, but I don't think we 33 can request more than 60 days, but I might've said lower. 34 35 Hutson: Right, that's what I'm saying, it should say "More than 60 days", right? 36 Okay. 37 38 Montana: But I probably said lower. So she can't change it you know what I mean? 39 40 Hutson: Okay. 41 42 Baum: I don't change it, your secretaries. 43 44 Montana: So if it's verbatim even if I said it wrong I have to leave it. 45 46 Hutson: Okay, well that was I think the end of my ... I think that was all I saw. 2 1 2 Williams: I didn't have anything. 3 4 Montana: You have anything Barbara. Okay. Somebody want to make a motion? 5 6 Hutson: I make a motion to approve the minutes as amended. 7 8 Kuhns: Isecond. 9 10 Williams: All those in favor. 11 12 ALL: AYE. 13 14 III. NEW BUSINESS - NONE 15 16 Williams: We don't have any new business or old business. 17 18 IV. OLD BUSINESS - NONE 19 20 V. DISCUSSION OF OTHER ITEMS 21 22 1. A discussion of potential proposed amendments to the Municipal Code, 23 Article V, Section 38-49.2 South Mesquite Neighborhood Overlay Zone 24 District to enact text changes which represent substantive changes to the 25 overlay district zoning regulations. 26 27 Williams: So onto discussion of other items. 28 29 Montana: Yeah, we're back at our rezoning....and I want thank all the Board 30 Members who attended the public meetings, and especially those who 31 attended the first one that I could not attend. I had a terrible sinus 32 infection and just was totally out of it that first one. But David Chavez took 33 notes and he will bring them tonight when he gets here so he can share 34 those with us, again because that ... I didn't attend the meeting, I don't 35 know what the comments were. Robert you attended that first session. 36 37 Williams: Yeah I did. I was just looking at my notes and I didn't take very many. 38 39 Montana: Okay. 40 41 Williams: So (inaudible). 42 43 Montana: So ... 44 45 Williams: Yeah. 46 3 1 Archuleta: Mr. Chairman, if I may say something here. The only reason that I'm here 2 is to ... 3 4 Montana: For the record could you say your name. 5 6 Archuleta: Dolores Archuleta, President of Las Esperanzas. And the only reason I'm 7 here is to deliver a message from them. 8 9 Montana: Okay. 10 11 Archuleta: We had a discussion about this at our meeting and the message is that ... 12 13 Montana: You want to come in closer to the mike. 14 15 Archuleta: The message from Las Esperanzas is that before you take your 16 comments to the City Council, your recommendations, that you have more 17 public meetings because the people who you are going to be affected by 18 the changes are the ones that are not getting the message. That's going 19 to affect them and that's going to be a problem. I know there was not 20 enough publicity for the two meetings that were held. I am told now that 21 the flyers the children were supposed to send out from the Weed and 22 Seed, they can no longer do that. The Weed and Seed is under the 23 purview of the Parks and Recreation and the rules have changed. So you 24 can no longer use the children to deliver the messages. 25 26 Montana: Mr. Chair. Ms. Archuleta after our last meeting on August 27th, it was 27 suggested that we have an English/Spanish sort of invitation in the utility 28 bills and if that's satisfactory to you, then that's what we'll do. 29 30 Archuleta: That would work. 31 32 Montana: Along with the display ads in the Sun News and the Bulletin. 33 34 Archuleta: Bilingual. 35 36 Montana: Oh bilingual, okay, we'll do that. We'll do that. 37 38 Archuleta: Yes, and whatever you're going to put in the utility bills, though should be 39 bilingual also. 40 41 Montana: Yes, we'll do that. 42 43 Archuleta: Okay. 44 45 Montana: Yeah. 46 4 1 Archuleta: I don't have a problem with that. Thanks. You've got a very difficult job. 2 3 Montana: But thank you for your comment. 4 5 Archuleta: You're welcome. 6 7 Montana: Thank you for your comments. Thank you for attending. 8 9 Archuleta: She's the one who nominated me. She's the one who made the motion 10 that I'm supposed to be here. 11 12 Montana: Okay, well you're the president so the buck stops... 13 14 Archuleta: I've got another meeting to go to so I've gotta go. 15 16 Hutson: Bye Dolores. See you later. 17 18 Montana: Thank you. So, let me share with you some telephone calls that I received 19 that didn't get into this packet that you received, public comments. I've got 20 some calls from property owners in Area 1 that don't mind that we are 21 reviewing construction, new construction or alterations, additions, that sort 22 of thing for non-contributory buildings and that sort of thing. They don't 23 mind that. What they mind is lowering the height limit from 25-feet to 14- 24 feet. They've indicated that if we continue with that part of the proposal 25 that you know, they will try to organize their neighbors to protest this whole 26 thing. 27 28 Kuhns: That'd be great. I think we need more community input. I think Dolores' 29 heart is in the right place but 1 think you can put notes on every telephone 30 pole and you're not going to get that great of an increase in ... and I think 31 they should organize. 32 33 Montana: Well ... 34 35 Kuhns: That's what a democracy is. You know they should be doing that. I didn't 36 mean to interrupt you, I apologize. 37 38 Montana: No, no, no. That was, that was the gist. These callers ... there were 39 about three of them ... they didn't want to attend our meetings but they 40 said they would certainly attend the City Council meetings. Again they 41 weren't objecting to, you know, expanding what the Board reviews, they 42 just didn't like lowering heights in Area 1 to 14-feet. 43 44 Williams: The Area 1 was the ... not the oldest (inaudible) right now. 45 46 Montana: Yeah, east of Tornillo. 5 1 2 Hutson: Right. 3 4 Chavez: In the original overlay it does state a height still, we're not really changing 5 a height requirement. 6 7 Williams: Well yeah but what, what she's saying is the ... in the Area 1 though it's 8 limited to 25-feet. 9 10 Hutson: Yeah and Area 1 is. 11 12 Williams: And if we ... 13 14 Hutson: We combined them they would fall under the new height. 15 16 Chavez: Wouldn't that come under a variance? It comes to this Board to decide if 17 we let that happen or not, so you know, it's like anything that we do in the 18 district; if there's a special need, them there's a variance. 19 20 Kuhns: I know when the house behind me on Tomillo came up in front of design 21 and review, the neighbors were upset over the height. 22 23 Chavez: But it ... 24 25 Kuhns: Raising the parapet. 26 27 Cummins: Can you let me know here ... when we can say something or can we just 28 jump in (inaudible) or is there a thing after you guys do Board talks, how's 29 that work? 30 31 Williams: I think it's fine as long as you just raise your hand and ... 32 33 Montana: And ... 34 35 Hutson: State your name. 36 37 Montana: State your name and maybe come a little closer so the ... 38 39 Cummins: Yeah, Robert Cummins a resident. On that subject about the 25-feet, the 40 two stories and such, I think that in the original townsite we should just 41 leave that out of there about ... you can ask for a variance. If they want a 42 variance, let them ask for a variance. But if you're going to include it in, 43 the first I think you need to include it in the second. If they want to do 44 something, then they have to ask to do it. But if you start separating 45 different things from one boundary to another boundary it's going to be 6 1 really confusing and it's ... I think you just need to be across the board of 2 what area you want to have jurisdiction over, whatever it is. 3 4 Kuhns: We've got ... that was the first premise of all this. 5 6 Chavez: Yeah. 7 8 Williams: Yeah. 9 10 Kuhns: We're getting rid of Area 1 and Area 2. 11 12 Cummins: - Yeah, so whatever you have in Area 1, Area 2, if they want to organize, 13 they have a right to do that and democracy says if they don't like it.... 14 15 Montana: Okay. 16 17 Cummins: That's my opinion. 18 19 Williams: I ... IT ... I just, I guess I want to go on record stating that I think the 14- 20 foot height is too restrictive personally. 21 22 Akbari: It's too what? 23 24 Williams: Too restrictive. It's like ... and I've ... I've, I mean I don't mind it for the 25 original townsite area, but that was one of my concerns in going out the ... 26 doing it to the entire area. I think it's getting a little too restrictive. 27 28 Cummins: Can 1 say something? I ... that's basically what I mean is exactly what you 29 said. I'm not saying it should be 14-feet by any stretch of the imagination. 30 I'm just saying that whatever's in Zone 1 should be in Zone 2. It should be 31 the same. It could be 18-feet, I don't know. You know, I'm not trying to 32 set a height for either one of them. I'm just saying that if you're going to 33 encompass something else, which you have to think the purpose you said 34 that that's what you wanted to do, then you shouldn't have from this street 35 to this street you can do this, blah, blah, blah, blah ... should be across 36 the board, whatever. 37 38 Williams: And Rob when ... just to finish off what I was going to say too about the 39 idea of them coming to a variance. I think the problem with that is it, it's 40 the Board at the time. So you may get one Board that would allow it and 41 another Board that would not allow it and it's not fair to people coming in 42 at different times I don't think. So if you're going to allow higher, taller 43 buildings in a different area then maybe we need to keep the two areas 44 separate. 45 7 I Chavez: Actually you're all right. When I used to come to the meetings before 1 2 was on the Board and Mr. Cummins was on the Board, they were a little 3 strict of, "This is it. We're going by the book." And you know we would 4 talk to them and say okay do you really have to have it above 14-feet. 5 There are some buildings, historic buildings in the area that are at 14 and 6 a little higher but they're existing. So, my house is at 14, not from the front 7 door, but just from you know take a corner and it's high. But you know 1 8 think every case has to be looked at carefully, see the historic significance 9 of each building. If they can prove that that building had higher than 14- 10 feet, then ... and if not, then the question comes up. 11 12 Montana: I think that what is called the original townsite from Campo to Tornillo has 13 a different characteristic than the area east of Tornillo in the sense that 14 they're smaller parcels, a lot of the lots are fully built out so it's very close 15 in, it's very intimate. When you add a second story to what happened to 16 be a vacant parcel, you have the issue of privacy, concern about privacy. 17 There's no view blockage, but it, it can seem out of scale. And I, 1 think 18 from an urban design point of view and the privacy and livability, light and 19 air penetration, all that, I think we should keep 14-feet for the original 20 townsite, what we call Area 2. That's just from a planning 21 recommendation. 22 23 Kuhns: You know that's the nature of a democracy is things change. You know, 24 gosh when I bought my first house the interest rate on that house was 25 16%, you know, times change and that was the going rate too which is 26 bizarre. But I don't think we can worry about like who's going to be on this 27 Board in three years or four years or whatever cause it's always going to 28 change. You know it's just a very fluid thing. I am in support of the 14- 29 feet. 30 31 Montana: For the whole, for the whole area? 32 33 Kuhns: Yes. And if they wanted ... I agree with what David said, if they need 34 more than that they can get a variance. Maybe they can prove that it used 35 to be that way or something, you know, it would be handled on a case-by- 36 case basis. 37 38 Chavez: One of the main reasons we're here is to protect this historic district. 39 There's been a variety of articles that this is basically an out of sight, out of 40 mind, kind of a lost neighborhood. Nobody really pays attention. That's 41 why it's as intact as it is. So whose ever Board comes in after us or this 42 Board, our due responsibility is to keep it as intact historically, culturally, 43 and its heritage as close to the same as it was 50 years ago, 100 years 44 ago, 167 years ago. So you know having somebody come in that wants a 45 two-story building and we're going ... you know the discussion of a 46 variance, well we have to really research to say, "What are the two 8 1 structures on either side of that house that you want to put a two-story. 2 Do you have proof that it was ever two-story, or anything around there 3 two-story?" So, you know it's going to be...basically falls on our shoulders 4 to make sure that you know, we're trying to keep and preserve a 5 neighborhood that not very much has been done. I mean there's some 6 stuff that has happened out of our control, but we're responsible to keep it 7 as perfect and as long as possible. That's my opinion. But I thought that's 8 the reason that we're on this Board is for the protection of that 9 neighborhood. Because we have had some issues come in where we 10 have said "no," it's not going to work. You know, that's why we're doing 11 the overlay, to give it a little bit more teeth so we don't have ambiguity, 12 question of somebody saying well just your book doesn't, your document 13 doesn't really state that or it's not strong enough. That's the reason. 14 15 Montana: Well David can you share with us comments from the August 20th 16 meeting? 17 18 Chavez: The, one of the comments was that when our document gets done that it 19 needs to be able to be connected to City websites, especially in codes. 20 So when somebody pulls up our overlay there should be a list of e-mail ... 21 links to the City ... 22 23 Montana: Oh right. 24 25 Chavez: To confirm what our overlay is actually saying and it's confirmed by either 26 the law or municipal code or whatever the bill is because right now it's not. 27 28 Montana: Yeah. 29 30 Chavez: And the other thing too (inaudible) is an index. When you open up the 31 document it's kind of like what are we doing or where are we going. If it 32 hasan index as far as building code, lighting, landscaping, parking issues, 33 that it should be already listed on there so that way some ... this page and 34 this page and this page, just makes it a lot easier. I think we researched 35 when we were looking, Faith and I were, and Nancy, when we were doing 36 nationwide that there were indexes and there was a statement in front of 37 ... 38 39 Hutson: Albuquerque's has one. 40 41 Chavez: Albuquerque's is phenomenal. So our hopes were that we would adopt 42 something similar like Albuquerque has because basically everything that 43 Albuquerque's overlay document has is basically what we need here. 44 45 Montana: Okay. We can do that. 46 9 1 Chavez: Okay. 2 3 Akbari: I had line regional, region, redraft from that ... 4 5 Montana: Well within the document wherever it's cited other sources other than this 6 chapter, I'll put the hyperlink, I'll put the address. Now on the website of 7 course they could just click on it. 8 9 Chavez: The other thing that was brought up in the note, in the meeting ... I'm sorry 10 1 didn't bring the note it's been a (inaudible). The announcement of the 11 public input meetings, there was such a small amount of people that 12 actually went and I understand that our neighborhood is over 50% rental, 13 so they're not interested in coming to a meeting. 14 15 Kuhns: It's over 50%what? 16 17 Chavez: Rental. 18 19 Williams: Rental. 20 21 Chavez: And those people that rent are not interested. 22 23 Kuhns: Yeah. 24 25 Chavez: In anything other than just living there. So I think we need to have a little 26 bit more, be a little bit more proactive. Maybe contacting the listing of the 27 owners of the properties. 28 29 Kuhns: Greg Gendall. 30 31 Chavez: Being one. There are a lot of people that own property; 32 33 Kuhns: Victor. 34 35 Chavez: Ken Miyagishima, Victor Gallegos, all the ... 36 37 Kuhns: Ruben ... 38 39 Chavez: ... Smith, Ruben Smith. They own an incredible amount of property. 40 They should be contacted, so they need to be here. Not necessarily the 41 renters but they need to be here because they have an invested interest in 42 our neighborhood. 43 44 Hutson: An e-mail was ... when that was sent out to neighborhood watch, Ken 45 Miyagishima is on it, Greg Gendall was on it, and so is Victor Gallegos. 10 1 So those people should've been informed because they're on the 2 neighborhood watch list. 3 4 Montana: But we can do ... 5 6 Chavez: And I sent e-mails to those, to some of those folks, they just said there's 7 no interest. 8 9 Montana: We can do a first class mail to property owners, especially in Area 1 10 because the greatest change would be for Area 1. 11 12 Williams: Yes. 13 14 Cummins: I think that's good. I also think that you should have an accounting of 15 where the information was sent, who you sent it to, you know like it was 16 sent out, e-mailed to these people; was sent out in the gas bill, it was sent 17 out, it was posted, whatever. I think there should be an accounting so we 18 just don't (inaudible) I sent it here, I sent it here, I sent it here. People can 19 look at a list and say all these people were contacted. I think that would 20 be helpful. 21 22 Chavez: That's great. Yes. 23 24 Williams: I agree with what Barbara said, it's like you can put, you can put signs up 25 on every single post in the neighborhood and I don't think you're going to 26 get a lot more attendance. It's like if people didn't come ... you know the 27 people that are interested are going to show up. The people, most of the 28 people aren't. Until they actually are deafing with it, they don't care. 29 30 Hutson: The importance of doing that is that it's CYA. You can say that we did. 31 32 Williams: Yeah. 33 34 Hutson: So if anybody comes in and says well I didn't know about it. Well here's a 35 list, here's who it was sent out and so you have done your job and that's 36 why I think it's important that it does go into our utilities bill and that we do 37 have a record of e-mails sent because there is then a record that we did, 38 you know we did canvas the neighborhood and then if they choose not 39 show, that is their prerogative. 40 41 Chavez: Years ago when I was a member of Las Esperanzas, we did mailers, we 42 went door-to-door leaving flyers and it was always a less then 10%, not 43 even 10%, you're lucky if you got 2% for a function that should ... for 44 people to show up. It just ... people are not engaged in other than they 45 live there, they pay their utilities, and that's it. They figure nothing's going 46 to change. i agree with Faith that you know once we have a record we've 11 1 sent the information, we informed you, you chose not to come, well then if 2 you come to a meeting and you're screaming and yelling about it, well you 3 were informed, this is, should not be a surprise. Okay, I believe in a 4 democracy, everybody has a voice, but the needs of the many outweigh 5 the needs of three people, okay. So if you know we're doing this for the 6 good of the neighborhood not the good of one or two people. 7 8 Montana: Okay. Any other comments you can remember? 9 10 Chavez: She could probably ... 11 12 Montana: That is not in here. 13 14 Meeks: Yeah Ithink mine are in here. 15 16 Chavez: Okay, because I try to cover what Lome was, cause she was one of the 17 .ones that was ... spoke out on a variety of issues, but the main ones was 18 the, on the links. The other one was the amount of, the parking situation 19 on, like they want to do a bed and breakfast, well they're required to do so 20 many parking spaces and yada, yada, and stuff and what they can park on 21 the street. Well in our district, we ... they're allowed to park on the street 22 and so that should cover some of the parking issues. The other issue was 23 the paving issue which was ... we clarified that it's ... we are, figured, 24 wrote that out that they could do crush fine instead of actually doing 25 concrete paving. So you know it was just bits and pieces. Then we did 26 have a gentleman there that was representing so ... I don't know who he 27 was representing ... but he was in there thinking that this body had the 28 right to vote the whole thing and wasn't going to be (inaudible). 1 29 explained to him that that it could be months down the road before, and 30 City Council who decides the final vote. 31 32 Montana: On the issue of the I think it's sorority, fraternities, and bed and breakfasts, 33 we did establish a maximum number of guests or residents and we did 34 make it conditional and we said that parking would have to be screened. 35 We could amend that because the condition says parking has to be, has 36 to be screened. It implies that there has to be off-street parking that on- 37 street parking would not be allowed because it's a condition of the use. 38 So we can clarify whether or not we want bed and breakfasts and 39 sororities and fraternities to be able to use the historic district provisions 40 that allow on-street parking. So we can do that next month. I have a table 41 that I didn't put in your packet cause it wasn't ready yet, but I could pass it 42 out to you today and then we could go over it next month. 43 44 Chavez: Okay. There was ... I'm sorry. 45 12 1 Cummins: You also mentioned that the occupancy it went from, was eight, I mean 2 was 10, and then you're taking it back to eight. I don't know why you went 3 from eight to what, I mean 10, what it used to be in the overlay to a lower 4 amount of eight for bed and breakfasts. 5 6 Montana: I think, you know we'll just have to talk about that. The reason we lowered 7 it was because these are small parcels and eight just seemed to be a lot 8 of people coming in and out and in and out of a, what is a residential 9 house in a neighborhood of you know single-family or duplex. So it just 10 seemed to be very busy and that's why they lowered the occupancy. 11 12 Meeks: And yet they are allowing what 40 apartments on a, you want to talk about 13 busy, and the truth is, is there are lots, there are huge lots in our 14 neighborhood. I mean I think that they aren't all small lots. In fact, I would 15 say I think more so than not they're bigger than most places in town. So 16 I'm not quite sure who came up with the theory that there's lots and it 17 would be too busy but it seems quite a conflict between how many 18 apartments that you might allow versus, which is a whole lot more activity 19 guaranteed every day and parking, than 10 people going in and out of a 20 property you know maybe is a half-acre. 21 22 Montana: Well let me ask you Lome, do you, do you have a bed and breakfast? 23 24 Meeks: We don't. 25 26 Montana: Do you want a bed and breakfast? 27 28 Meeks: Well we have a property that could possibly do that and it's ... we actually 29 have a half acre of property but we would be restricted by this if that's the 30 case and I just think it's, you know ... I, if you want to restrict activity you 31 need to restrict how many apartments are allowed on a quarter acre not 32 how many people can participate in a fraternity or sorority or a bed and 33 breakfast, that's what I think. I mean I ... and the truth is this very 34 argument, the original overlay before it went to City Council, had eight and 35 then I brought it up and they changed it to 10. And now they're changing it 36 back to eight. I mean does, what's, what's going on? Who's thinking? 37 38 Montana: Are you satisfied with eight? Are you satisfied with 10? 39 40 Meeks: Well I think 10 is a reasonable number. But do you think that the issue 41 has more to do with the difference between what you're allowing an 42 apartment complex to do and any other business. I mean you're also 43 restricting the square footage of businesses to 1,500 square feet, that's 44 like not very big. Also restricting the amount of ... if you, you're only 45 allowed one practitioner in a business. I don't understand the use of 46 where these restrictions are coming from, who thought them up. i don't 13 1 think they're reflective of the culture of the neighborhood which is like a 2 mom and pop grocery store or something or a professional comes in, a 3 lawyer, you know maybe has a partner. You know doctor's office maybe 4 one or two of them. I don't really understand where the downsizing came 5 from on what is allowed in the neighborhood. So it's sort of a, you know, 6 anyhow. 7 8 Akbari: I personally think that busy is good for the neighborhood, for the City 9 because it brings in an atmosphere. It exposes more people to the City 10 (inaudible) and the specific neighborhood. I think that any restriction 11 should be on the basis of safety, like you see in, you know, restaurants, no 12 more than 220 people. I don't think busyness is a correct or good idea as 13 a basis for restricting anything. 14 15 Meeks: Especially considering there's zoning already in the neighborhood. 16 There's commercial zoning, there's you know R-4, all of those things 17 already apply. So you know if Lohman, you know so Lohman's part of this 18 historic district and if it's in the overlay, it doesn't say well if you're in C-2, 19 well I guess .it does show (inaudible) in that chart but it seems like the 20 current zoning should have, be relevant. And again I don't, I don't know 21 ... anyhow I think I've said what I needed to say. Sorry. 22 23 Chavez: There's a, a doctor that is in the process of trying to purchase the property 24 on the corner of Mesquite and Las Cruces Avenue. That piece of property 25 is close to 5,000 square feet. Her concern, and she's called me and I've 26 gone down there a couple of times, is that, she said "So your overlay's 27 telling me I can't have this whole building, so I'd have to sublet the building 28 because of the 1,500 square foot limit". So her question to me and this is 29 what I was going to ask is that she's willing to take the property, but since 30 we have the overlay and it says 1,500 square foot and that you can't have 31 more than one business of the same kind in the same building....she was 32 going to sublet to another doctor. I think it's a phenomenal benefit for this 33 neighborhood to have that business, and the building is huge. They were 34 selling for $159,000, the guy dropped it down to $140,000. 1 mean they're 35 eager to sell. Plenty of parking space. There are some issues electrically 36 and we've already gone through that and so it's all doable. She has 37 somebody who's doing the plans for the interior, but that's the main 38 question is that you have a 5,000 square foot building. I cannot operate a 39 business larger than 5,000 feet. 40 41 Hutson: Fifteen hundred. 42 43 Chavez: Fifteen hundred feet, I beg your pardon. 44 45 Akbari: It doesn't make any sense again. 46 14 1 Chavez: And she has the parking to accommodate because it's not one of these 2 that they come in and park and they're there all day. It's a kind of like you 3 go do your doctor thing and you're gone. 4 5 Akbari: It doesn't make any sense to base the square footage of a person's office 6 at all. 7 8 Chavez: It's basically ... 9 10 Akbari: They're inside (inaudible) ... 11 12 Chavez: You're cutting back their business over square footage. 13 14 Montana: Okay, let me remind you that ft's the Board that came up with these 15 (inaudible). 16 17 Akbari: That was the only Board, right Robert? 18 19 Montana: So if you all want to remove that 1,500 square foot limit, if the use is 20 permitted. Now this came up when we talked about medical clinics and 21 then everybody wanted sole practitioners. So we can have this discussion 22 again. 23 24 Chavez: I guess the thing is we didn't have somebody actually in the process of 25 wanting to approach and buy a building and actually think that we have a 26 structure on Mesquite Street that's over 5,000 square feet. Cause all of 27 us, our thing was we don't have any buildings over maybe 2,000. 28 29 Kuhns: Is that the electric motor? 30 31 Williams: Yeah. 32 33 Chavez: It was electric motor. And, I mean you could put three businesses in there 34 easily and, but that was the question. If we can kind of reword that, I think 35 it's easier for the sale for one and I think it would really benefit the 36 neighborhood. 37 38 Montana: Well these proposed rules won't get adopted till early next year so the 39 current rules allow her use as an office without limitation, and if she came 40 in . . . but I get your point. We could talk about that and make those 41 changes. 42 43 Kuhns: You know the healthiest communities or the healthiest neighborhoods are 44 the ones that have a mix. 45 46 Akbari: Have a what? 15 1 2 Kuhns: Have a mix. 3 4 Chavez: Mix. 5 6 Kuhns: Single-family, townhouses, commercial, residential, and you know the 7 ones that are in the most trouble are the crapped out suburbs. 8 9 Chavez: There's no resources; a place to have coffee, no shops, no restaurants. 10 11 Kuhns: No medical. Well I guess we do need to revisit that, don't you think? 12 13 Chavez: I think so. 14 15 Kuhns: For our next meeting. 16 17 Montana: Yeah. 18 19 Kuhns: Chairman. 20 21 Williams: Yes that and also the occupancy. 22 23 Chavez: For the bed and breakfast. 24 25 Williams: Yes. 26 27 Chavez: Definitely. 28 29 Montana: Yeah so all those are listed in this handout I just passed out to the Board 30 Members and I have one more extra. We'll put this on the agenda for 31 October. 32 33 Kuhns: Okay. There were ... I have a question about, should we like get together 34 before the meetings and go through this packet? 35 36 Williams: To the comments? 37 38 Kuhns: Yeah, because you know, and maybe we could like do it at Beck's on 39 Sunday afternoon or something, but I think that we should at least just go 40 through each comment and say let's look at it, let's reference it or 41 whatever so . . . . I don't know, that's a suggestion. I think if we try to save 42 all this for meetings, we won't be ready in January. 43 44 Williams: No (inaudible). 45 16 1 Montana: Well I tried to respond to many of the comments that I, that are in this 2 packet with the clean copy dated, what did I date it, September. For 3 example, Ms. Meeks comments about the density allowing the 40 units, up 4 to 40 units per acre on page V-204, well I deleted that table and put a note 5 saying within the SMO lot size, set backs, parking requirements, and 6 building heights that'll determine residential density per property. So, 1 7 think that's, that's a set of controls that would serve as a density limit. 8 9 Hutson: Absolutely. 10 11 Chavez: Yeah. 12 13 Kuhns: Very good. 14 15 Montana: So I did try to respond to the comments in this, in this September ... 16 17 Kuhns: And I commend you on that, but I'm still wondering if the Board shouldn't 18 do it as our responsibility as Board Members? 19 20 Chavez: I agree. 21 22 Kuhns: Just so that we're not taking up all our meetings ... 23 24 Williams: Yeah doing the ... 25 26 Chavez: This will take forever. 27 28 Kuhns: I know and ... 29 30 Williams: I mean I went through and looking and I think a lot of Lorrie's comments 1 31 agree, you know the whole thing about adding, not an index but an 32 appendix with any cited things from the other codes, have that in the 33 document as well as in the back; somewhere have those so that you're 34 not having to go to multiple different documents to read it, everything is in 35 one. I think that's a great idea. I think it would really help to understand it. 36 1 think there was the accessory structures, I think there's some 37 misunderstanding of, I don't know if it's maybe what we said or what, the 38 way it's worded needs to be looked at. I'm not for putting sheds in the 39 front yards of buildings but I've no issue with on the side yards. Play 40 structures I don't, I'm fine if it's in the front yard, I prefer that they weren't 41 but ... 42 43 Meeks: (inaudible) recommend but 1 mean our lot, that's the only experience 1 44 really have ... if we didn't have a wall on Mesquite street, our entire yard 45 faces on Mesquite street, i.e. we could never put a shed, we could never 46 ... and, and I would say that's not an unusual feature. Look at Jeanne, 17 1 Jeanne Abkes, same thing, they do have some play structures in their 2 yard that we hope are temporary. But to say that you can't, I think you ... 3 when somebody comes ... actually are people going to the Design Review 4 Board when they're going to put up a playhouse or a treehouse? I don't 5 think so. So I don't want it in the, in the code that you know the codes 6 officer could come out there and tell them to tear it down. I mean that 7 seems to me to be ... but I think it's a new, new construction. Sure you 8 know you can certainly you know sort of emphasize the aesthetics of it, 9 but I, 1 hesitate to start really making a perfect neighborhood. It's not. 10 11 Williams: Yeah. 12 13 Meeks: And it's not really designed to be perfect. 14 15 Williams: It shouldn't be (inaudible). 16 17 Cummins: Someone else brought up the point also that some people don't have 18 backyards, you know, and if they want to have a play building for the 19 children (inaudible) permanent structure, you know. 20 21 Williams: That and, and that, I agree with that. That's what I'm saying, there are 22 some with backyards, but I went ... you know I don't want to see a metal 23 shed that someone bought at Home Depot set up in the front yard of 24 someone's, you know even though we'd have nothing against it because 25 we can't, they don't need a permit for it or anything so it's like, so we have 26 no way of, of denying it and stuff. But that ... I think we just need to took 27 at the wording of that and how it's stated in the, in the document. The 28 other thing was color. I, you know it's like I know ... when I first came on 29 the Board that's what I was told is we're not restricting any color choices... 30 31 Chavez: No. 32 33 Williams: ...in the neighborhoods at all, you know so, but it's, people are reading 34 this that we're restricting colors. 35 36 Kuhns: Where does it say that? 37 38 Williams: Well I'm not sure exactly where Lome says, but a variety of colors should 39 be encouraged and not prohibited is one of the comments. I think I read a 40 couple of places ... 41 42 Akbari: I also (inaudible) so it had to be in that draft, the older draft. 43 44 Williams: Yeah so it's like, and that's, and you know I think, I think what got 45 misunderstood was that if you had an accessory building in a location, it 46 should be coordinated with the color of the building that it's next to or 18 1 something like that is, you know or ... but it doesn't restrict the colors that 2 you use. So if you paint one of them blue, you know want to make it pink 3 but ... 4 5 Akbari: (inaudible) coordinated if it's accepted structure. 6 7 Williams: Well you know I don't ... 8 9 Akbari: And what color is (inaudible). 10 11 Chavez: I grew up in this neighborhood and I can remember there were colors. 12 13 Akbari: Right. 14 15 Chavez: There used to be some beautiful blues and greens and golds. 16 17 Akbari: Right. 18 19 Chavez: And all of a sudden everything is now ... 20 21 Akbari: Brown. 22 23 Chavez: I mean how many colors of tan can you ... 24 25 Williams: Yeah. 26 27 Chavez: ...invent and how many colors of brown can you make. There used to be 28 you drove by and go, "Wow this is great"... 29 30 Williams: Yeah. 31 32 Chavez: ...and people used to comment. Now that is almost gone. There's a few 33 houses, I means there's a lot pink, but you know, but we used to have 34 some beautiful blues. And there's that reddish ox-blood color buildings 35 and stuff, you know it's gone because it's the style. It's the era we live in, 36 so, but... 37 38 Akbari: And also new people probably unconsciously or subconsciously think that 39 they should do that, keep it in those tans and browns. They won't think 40 they can put bright yellow. 41 42 Hutson: Nancy I'm waiting for you to paint your house a different color. 43 44 Akbari: I painted it yellow. Seriously. 45 46 Chavez: Yeah hers is yellow. 19 1 2 Akbari: She made me do it. 3 4 Hutson: Louie good for you. 5 6 Chavez: Atta girl. 7 8 Cummins: That's not true. 9 10 Akbari: I'd love to see ... on the other side of Spruce there's a house that is a blue 11 with white, yeah, really nice. There's a green one that doesn't look that 12 nice because of the house but there is a, that blue. 13 14 Cummins: A variety of colors. 15 16 Williams: Yes. Well I had stated at one point the church right across from you guys 17 that had painted the bricks different colors at one ... it was only like a 18 week that they were painted different colors and then they went in and 19 painted them all the same color or something. But it's like well when they 20 were different colors I'm like that's cool. It's like, and then all of a sudden 21 it changed and I didn't know if someone had told them or what. 22 23 Montana: We didn't make them. I'm innocent. 24 25 Williams: Yes, so I'm all for color, but, but I agree with Barbara; I think we should 26 maybe as a Board look at getting together at some point ... 27 28 Chavez: Make sure that we do ... 29 30 Williams: ... make sure that we do understand. 31 32 Montana: Well I can make this room available if you let me know or you could go to 33 a coffee shop. 34 35 Williams: Go to Beck's. 36 37 Montana: Yeah. 38 39 Meeks: I think that brochure that you're talking about publishing, you know that 40 could ... recommendations as to, yes go with, I mean actually saying in 41 there we like color or you know and some of this stuff like, "Don't put your 42 metal sheds in the front yard". That those sort of things can be, you know, 43 sort of planted but not you know in the code. I mean I think the brochure 44 is a critical feature to you know, making people think cause nobody wants 45 to muck up the place, you know, but a lot of people don't really have the 46 architectural background to think through these things. So I think the 20 I brochure could change things incredibly and the code you know, has to be 2 strict in some areas but in other places it can sort of be a little, you know, 3 open to interpretation I think or rely on recommendations. 4 5 Cummins: And I'm sticking to it. 6 7 Montana: So the brochure, I just want to clarify, the brochure I think you're speaking 8 of is the design guidelines that we hand out at the pre-application 9 meeting? 10 11 Meeks: Yes, or, and I would hope there'd be extra copies that maybe Las 12 Esperanzas could be responsible, the neighborhood watch, just sort of 13 blanket the neighborhood with it so people are thinking, "Oh yeah this is a 14 historic neighborhood, oh yeah somebody I know might move in here". 15 Then it becomes a word of mouth thing as opposed to finding out at the 16 permit office, which is a long time into the process of thinking about what 17 you're doing and finding out oops. So I think that we need to be, you 18 know really blanket the area with that information so it's common 19 knowledge, which it sure isn't now. I mean I'll ... 20 21 Cummins: (inaudible). 22 23 Meeks: Right. I mean I would volunteer to, I mean hand out that thing door-to- 24 door or go to real estate offices and hand it out cause I think it's critical. 1 25 hate it when people come and have a permit and they can't live, they can't 26 do it. 27 28 Chavez: Actually that is extremely important is getting the information to the real 29 estate folks. The lady that's working with this woman to sell this property 30 on Mesquite and Las Cruces, we got online and we didn't have enough 31 information or there was, you know you didn't have enough what she 32 needed. So I think it would be wise to get like all the real estate people 33 that deal in our neighborhood and get them a copy so the real estate 34 broker can understand; this is what you can do and don't feel like you 35 can't do it, it here. 36 37 Montana: Well we'll have it on the South Mesquite website, web page as well. 38 39 Chavez: And then we can get copies to some of the ... you know a copy... 40 41 Montana: Yeah. Yeah. 42 43 Chavez: ...and then can deal with it. But I think it's important because that could, 44 believe it or not this lady went to Wells Fargo bank and they said "You're 45 buying property in the Mesquite area? Absolutely not". 46 21 1 Akbari: Which is illegal. 2 3 Chavez: The worst deal you could do. I mean Wells Fargo was horrible. She went 4 back ... 5 6 Williams: They're horrible anyway but. 7 8 Chavez: ... she went to First New Mexico Bank and they said "Fantastic". They 9 were so positive and all of a sudden ... but Wells Fargo was so negative 10 11 12 Kuhns: Let's write them a letter. 13 14 Chavez: We may not even give you a loan because ... 15 16 Cummins: It's called redlining, it's against the law. 17 18 Meeks: Yeah it is. 19 20 Akbari: (inaudible). 21 22 Chavez: They ... she said they got treated horrible. She got treated terribly at 23 Wells Fargo because of the fact that you know. 24 25 Akbari: And Wells Fargo was just (inaudible). 26 27 Chavez: So we have some of the negativity on some of these banks. 28 29 Montana: Yeah. 30 31 Chavez: I think you have a story of when you guys were moving here that they 32 didn't want you to buy your property here, right? 33 34 Meeks: Well first of all the real estate agent wouldn't show us property in this area. 35 And second we, we did get a loan from Wells Fargo but they made us 36 carpet the entire place before they would give us the loan cause some of 37 the floor was concrete. It was a little bit, you know had to jump through 38 some hoops. 39 40 Chavez: I think it's an education of the lenders and the real estate folks. 41 42 Cummins: Which we tore out because ... 43 44 Meeks: Which we're still using today. 45 22 1 Montana: Roll it up. Well I think the next step then is for the Board to go through the 2 public comments that we've received and maybe take a look at the 3 September amendments to see how they or if they do respond to the 4 comments, and either have a Saturday or Sunday meeting. 5 6 Kuhns: Yeah, and we could do some work ahead on our own. Is everyone 7 amenable to ... 8 9 Williams: I am. 10 11 Chavez: You're pretty busy aren't you? 12 13 Hutson: I have a lot on my plate but I'll work it out. 14 15 Kuhns: Well if we each go through these on our own then when we meet we're 16 only answering questions and verifying and validating, and that's really 17 where we want to be. We don't want to go through the comments as a 18 group. 19 20 Williams: Yeah, exactly. 21 22 Kuhns: Okay. I think it's a good way to do business; being responsible Board 23 Members, yeah. 24 25 Montana: Well I have to remind you it will be ... I have to advertise it as a public 26 meeting. 27 28 Chavez: What? 29 30 Montana: When the Board gets together. 31 32 Chavez: Really? 33 34 Montana: Yeah, you all are ... 35 36 Chavez: Privately? 37 38 Montana: Yeah, unless you do it without me and just ... 39 40 Kuhns: That's what we're going to have to do. 41 42 Montana: By happenstance find each other. 43 44 Williams: We're just going to meet for coffee and ... 45 46 Hutson: Yeah. 23 1 2 Montana: Okay. 3 4 Akbari: And we're going to have some sweet rolls. 5 6 Montana: Okay. 7 8 Chavez: I'm bringing my Bailey's. 9 10 Cummins: How come the City Council can have work sessions where's there no 11 public input? 12 13 Montana: Well they, they notice it. They post those work sessions. 14 15 Cummins: But you can attend it but you can't comment. 16 17 Chavez: Right. 18 19 Montana: Right, cause it's their own work session. But they, whenever there's more 20 than four that might go to a particular event they post it as a, a possible 21 quorum. 22 23 Cummins: Just get together (inaudible). 24 25 Montana: That's Council 26 27 Chavez: Council members cannot go to certain events because if they all show up, 28 they can actually get together and vote. 29 30 Hutson: See (inaudible) you three get together and I'll just dial in the phone. 31 32 Kuhns: That's a good idea. 33 34 Hutson: Right. 35 36 Kuhns: That's a really good idea. 37 38 Hutson: Then I'm not there right, we really don't have ... 39 40 Williams: Then we don't have more than four. 41 42 Chavez: That voice in the background is just background. 43 44 Cummins: Elevator music. 45 24 1 Montana: You all get together and I'll just, I'll just advertise the October meeting and 2 we'll put the demolition issue on and then we'll continue this discussion. 3 4 Hutson: All right. 5 6 Chavez: May I ask a question? When are we going to do another input meeting, 7 public input meeting? Is there another one come ... scheduled to come 8 up? 9 10 Montana: It's up to you. When you ... 11 12 Kuhns: We should probably schedule that. It takes so long to pull these off. 13 14 Williams: Well and especially if you're going to be putting in the ... 15 16 Kuhns: Should we do it for October? 17 18 Williams: in the mailing. 19 20 Montana: Oh my gosh no. I'm, I'm thinking January. 21 22 Williams: Yeah, if ... 23 24 Chavez: Actually you know what I agree with you. 25 26 Montana: Okay. Get rid of the holidays ... 27 28 Chavez: We may not be able to do some of this stuff. We've got to clean some of 29 this up. 30 31 Kuhns: Okay. All right. 32 33 Chavez: So that way we have all our ducks in a row. 34 35 Kuhns: Okay. 36 37 Chavez: I'd rather wait a little longer than rush it. 38 39 Kuhns: Right. Okay. 40 41 Williams: And I would imagine that getting a flyer in the utility bill is going to take 42 more than a couple months to arrange anyway like so. 43 44 Montana: I'll get on that right away. 45 25 1 Kuhns: You know what Susana, I'm a technical design writer by trade and those 2 are always so wordy. We have a neighborhood with pretty low literacy 3 rates here, and pockets of that here and there. So if you want, you could 4 run an English copy by me and then I could do some wordsmithing on it 5 and send it back or something. 6 7 Montana: Did you like the ... 8 9 Kuhns: I believe so, the small one. There was one that had quite a few words on 10 it and I'm not ... don't remember which one it was. 11 12 Montana: I'll send it to you. 13 14 Kuhns: Yeah. _ 15 16 Montana: Did you like having the two meetings, a daytime and an evening one? 17 18 Kuhns: Did you feel they were each different people? Cause I only went to one. 19 20 Chavez: I don't think the one in the afternoon really was a horrible waste of time 21 because there were a few people there; but what maybe 10 (inaudible). 22 23 Williams: Yeah. 24 25 Chavez: It was not that many well attended and the ones that were there ... 26 27 Cummins: (inaudible). 28 29 Kuhns: You know just ... 30 31 Montana: Yeah the evening one got nine people. 32 33 Chavez: Oh really, I thought it was more. 34 35 Williams: I thought it was too. 36 37 Montana: Nine not counting Board Members and me.... 38 39 Williams: Oh. 40 41 Montana: ....and staff. 42 43 Meeks: I also think it's a good idea maybe to have one of them at City Hall cause 1 44 don't see people really get the seriousness of it if it's at the, you know the 45 Youth Center or something. It's convenient but I think City Hall says this is 26 I you know law that we're making (inaudible) you know, I think that's more, 2 that's just my opinion. 3 4 Chavez: We could try it. I mean ... 5 6 Montana: I have a bigger room next door. 7 8 Kuhns: Yeah, let's give that a try. 9 10 Montana: The walls, you know partition. 11 12 Chavez: Actually we have done some meetings in there where they've opened it 13 up. I think it was one of the meetings about Klein Park. 14 15 Meeks: Yeah. 16 17 Montana: Okay. 18 19 Chavez: And so yeah. 20 21 Montana: Okay. 22 23 Chavez: We had quite a few people that showed up for that. 24 25 Montana: I can book that and you want a Saturday, I mean are you thinking. 26 27 Meeks: I think one on the weekend and one on a weeknight. 28 29 Kuhns: No to weekends. 30 31 Hutson: I don't think you're ... I think you're going to get less attendance on a 32 weekend ... 33 34 Chavez: On a weekend. 35 36 Hutson: Because people say you know I only have two days off between the 37 workweek. 38 39 Montana: Yeah. 40 41 Hutson: And the last thing I want to do is be at a meeting. So I think the most 42 participation you're going to get is evenings, after work honestly. 43 44 Cummins: (inaudible). 45 46 Chavez: A lot of people on Saturdays ... 27 2 Cummins: Like during the week, you know you're going to do business at City Hall, 3 be there at 5:00 on a weekend it's nay. 4 5 Montana: Right. 6 7 Chavez: And some people work on weekends. I work on weekends and I'm stuck. 8 9 Montana: Sure. 10 11 Chavez: I can't get out of it. 12 13 Montana: So we'll try for like a 5:30 or 6:00 on like how about a Thursday? 14 15 Chavez: Thursday would sound good. 16 17 Montana: Okay. So I'll book a room, see if I can ... 18 19 Chavez: January. 20 21 Montana: Yeah in January. Get you the text and then have it ready for the utility bill 22 to go out in the December bill. Okay. 23 24 Chavez: This is a question. Is there a way that you all could do, produce some 25 type of flyer that you could e-mail to us, because we all have e-mail 26 addresses that we know in the neighborhood? Where you could send us 27 a flyer and then either have a choice, I can print a whole bunch of them 28 and then hand deliver in my district, my area. But a flyer on top of the 29 mailer, I mean the postage thing in the utility bill. I mean, whatever, just to 30 saturate so that way a week before, anything earlier than that people just 31 forget. 32 33 Montana: Yeah. 34 35 Meeks: Yeah post it like Sunshine Grocery and the East Side Center house and 36 37 38 Chavez: And then that way I can go to some of these businesses and actually say 39 "Can we put this in your window?" 40 41 Montana: Come to our meeting. 42 43 Chavez: All the restaurants. 44 45 Montana: Okay. 46 28 1 Chavez: We got, you know we got a new restaurant that just got in the 2 neighborhood and they're wanting to be active. So they're already.... 3 4 Montana: Rosco's? 5 6 Chavez: Jabalito. 7 8 Kuhns: Jabaneros. 9 10 Hutson: Jabaneros. 11 12 Montana: Jabaneros. 13 14 Chavez: Where the old ... 15 16 Kuhns: It's on the corner of Amador and Tornillo. 17 18 Chavez: Where the old Kiva Restaurant used to be? 19 20 Williams: Oh yeah. 21 22 Kuhns: That's our center of commerce there Susana, it's got the Tan Calf, the 23 Border Book Festival, and now the ... so you can get your Birkenstocks, 24 get a book, and go have lunch. 25 26 Williams: Yeah. 27 28 Kuhns: All in one area. 29 30 Chavez: And their food is very good and your compliment is when you get there 31 they give you a bowl of soup which is their, their trademark and it's very 32 very good. 33 34 Cummins: Who's this? 35 36 Chavez: Jabaneros. They used to be on Solano and the food isn't like spicy spicy 37 but I'll tell you, they have a green chile burger that's a killer. 38 39 Cummins: Are you recording this? 40 41 Hutson: Robert, we always talk about food. Last time, last session in July we were 42 talking about La Nueva Casita and they're putting on the new thing and 43 somebody chimes in "Oh good salsa". Yeah we're always talking food. 44 45 Kuhns: When are they, when are they going to get their tile up? 46 29 1 Montana: You know they, they got their permit. I don't know, maybe they had to 2 order. 3 4 Chavez: I saw something ... 5 6 Williams: They've got the shade structure up. 7 8 Chavez: ... at the beginning of the tile. 9 10 Williams: The roof part. 11 12 Kuhns: They've got the new roof up. They've got the new poles, the new roof and 13 you know. 14 15 Chavez: I think it's going to be an asset to that building. 16 17 Kuhns: I do too. 18 19 Chavez: You know it just gives it that ... 20 21 Williams: I just think we need the tables outside now. 22 23 ALL TALKING. 24 25 Montana: They have a big backyard. 26 27 Chavez: They have a big backyard and you know I'd be surprised, I'm surprised 28 they haven't thought of closing it, creating a courtyard back there because, 29 well it's always (inaudible). 30 31 Montana: So Becky are you getting all this? 32 33 Baum: Oh I'll listen to it all that's for sure. 34 35 Montana: Well I think ... 36 37 Williams: Any other, any other comments or? 38 39 Montana: Okay so let me just mention when you ... if and when you decide to get 40 amongst, together amongst yourselves, don't use the City e-mail because 41 then I have to publish it as a public meeting. 42 43 Hutson: Susana you're not even going to know. 44 45 Montana: Yeah. 46 30 1 Kuhns: And Faith is phoning in. She'll Skype in. 2 3 Montana: All right. 4 5 Chavez: We may let you know where it is if you want to just drop by and have 6 coffee on your own. 7 8 Montana: That's true. Call me and let me know. 9 10 Cummins: I'd like to make a motion to strike this from the minutes. 11 12 Kuhns: We turn it off, especially when we're talking about the neighbors. 13 14 Chavez: On Hadley and Mesquite, right was ... 15 16 Cummins: I've got a complaint too. 17 18 Kuhns: Who's going to tell Harry his property's east of the river? 19 20 Chavez: Oh I'll do it. 21 22 Montana: Well, I think that's it. 23 24 Vl. ADJOURNMENT 25 26 Williams: Adjourn. 27 28 Hutson: Yes. 29 30 Williams: 7:06 p.m. 31 32 33 34 35 Chairperson 31