Loading...
06-06-18 SMDRB1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 SOUTH MESQUITE DESIGN REVIEW BOARD Following are the minutes of the South Mesquite Design Review Board meeting held on June 6, 2018 in 2007-A at City Hall, 700 N. Main Street, Las Cruces, NM 88001. MEMBERS PRESENT: Robert Williams Ernie Campos David Chavez Faith Hutson Tony Dahlin STAFF PRESENT: Sara Gonzalez, CLC Planner Larry Nichols, Community Development Magdalena Giron, Translator Ramon Hernandez Becky Baum, RC Creations, LLC, Recording Sec. I. CALL TO ORDER (6:02) Williams: Call the meeting to order at 6:02. II. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - March 7, 2018 Williams: First item on the agenda is approval of the minutes from the March 7, 2018 meeting. Did everyone get a chance to look over them? Anyone have any? Hutson: I have a typo correction on page 2, last paragraph it should say "I did receive a call thinking" and I think it should be "were", but it's "ere." Chavez: On line 39. Hutson: Chavez: Hutson: Chavez: Hutson. - Williams Yes on line 39. Other than that I didn't notice anything. I make a motion to approve the minutes. As corrected. As corrected. I'll second that. We have a motion and a second. Any other comments? All those in favor. MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Williams: Motion passes unanimously. III. NEW BUSINESS 1. Case 71678: Request for approval of the replacement of windows and doors to the street -facing facade of the existing structure for a property located at 516 E. Bowman Avenue. The subject property is zoned C-2 (General Commercial District) and is located within the Original Townsite in South Mesquite Overlay District. Submitted by Ramon Hernandez Carlos, property owner. Williams: Next item on the agenda is our new business, Case No. 71678. Gonzales: Once again this is Case 71678 for 516 E. Bowman Avenue for a window and door replacement to the street facing facade. Currently the property is zoned C-2 which is general commercial district, it's a vacant single- family residence located within the South Mesquite as well as in the Original Townsite. The structure is considered contributing, however in our documentation it says a date is not provided, it's not given. Under the County Assessor it's showing 1940. Here's a zoning map of the subject property and the area surrounding it. It is on south end of Bowman, it is west of Tornillo, and east of Mesquite Street. Here's an aerial map of the subject property highlighted here in red. As you can see it is on the south side. It is the smaller structure that is towards the middle of the property located on the west side of Mesquite Street, also east of N. Tornillo. The first thing the applicant is proposing is to replace the street facing facade windows of the structure as well as the other windows on the property. The original aluminum windows will be replaced with new vinyl windows. They will be in the same location. They will be the same size of the existing windows which are also similar to what is within the neighborhood. This is one of the pictures that was taken around 2015 showing the actual existing site. This is what the (inaudible) now. As you can see where the sign is at, those will be the windows that would be replaced. This is the current window and then this would be the window replacement showing basically the two-piece window that would have vinyl around it instead of the aluminum. The applicant's also requesting to replace the steel door that was existing on the property to another steel door on the property. The applicant is proposing however in this one something a little bit more decorative with a little bit of glass, but it does seem to be compatible with the surrounding neighborhood. I do have pictures of, this would be the door that was replaced. The applicant was unaware to not replace the doors. We did send out notifications and we did not put them in Spanish, 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 so we may need to go back and do a lot of the letters in Spanish to get at least everybody the notification properly. So with this one the doors were replaced just because, in this picture it was very damaged. The door was damaged, it was deteriorating, so the doors got replaced essentially on the property. As you can see they are both steel metal doors. It is an improvement to the door because it's still kept kind of the same shape. The portion on the top is glass so it was altered somewhat from the original door but still keeping the same material. This is the neighboring property across the street to the north. The property that's also to the northeast, and these were some of the examples; so if you go to Tornillo, right on the corner of Tornillo and Lohman, it's the exact same door that was replaced in this area. Three houses down you have another door that is similar. So the applicant has replaced with what has been similar within this area. So with that of course staff does analyze to make sure it's meeting the architectural style, methods, and materials that were used within the original structure and compatible with at least the surrounding properties. ' Staff sent out the public notice and did not receive anything back. With that, staff is recommending approval based on they are replacing with similar material for the doors, and they are replacing the windows to be vinyl windows and the same placement. They're not enlarging any of the windows or the doors so they're within the same area. And they are within the same district and style of that neighborhood. With that your options are to vote "yes" and approve, vote to "no" to deny, vote to amend, or vote to table. If you vote to deny the request please find additional facts or findings that were not provided to you since staff is recommending approval for the case. The applicant is here and any questions that I can provide or answer. Williams: Anyone have any questions? Campos: I don't have any. Dahlin: Nor I Williams: I don't have anything either. Chavez: Maybe one. MR. CHAVEZ AND RAMON HERNANDEZ AND SPEAKING SPANISH. Gonzales: Can I ask you to repeat what happened right now? Chavez: I just asked him what's the timeframe for the house and he said he's going to do it slowly. He's not going to rush on the job. There is a lot structural work. 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Hutson: Damage. Chavez: That he has to do around the house. Then I'm going to ask him if he's planning on doing any landscaping because it's kind of a dead zone. MR. CHAVEZ SPEAKING SPANISH. Chavez: She said ugly. I didn't want to say that. MR. CHAVEZ AND RAMON HERNANDEZ AND SPEAKING SPANISH. Hernandez: In the house I would like to put stucco on the outside and have it look the same way. MR. CHAVEZ SPEAKING SPANISH. Gonzales: So to interject our translator is here. This is Magdalena. Giron: Yes. My apologies, I went to the Mesquite Community Center. Gonzales: Any other questions? Campos: I don't have any questions Mr. Chair. In that case since the applicant doesn't have anything else to inform us with. Williams: Would the applicant like to say anything? Hernandez: No I just want to fix it right. I don't know exactly what I need because little by little other things have been coming up. MR. CHAVEZ SPEAKING SPANISH. Hernandez: It's going to look ... Hutson: I do have one more question for him then. Is he planning on doing anything else to the house that would need to come through the Design Review Board? Hernandez: Not changes on the outside of the house. Hutson: Okay. Hernandez: On the inside I'm going to set tile and paint it. No changes outside. There is a wall about five -feet long where is and basically it's collapsing so I don't know what I'm going to do with it. 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Chavez: Question for staff. On walls, there's not a permit issued? Hutson: Yes there is. Chavez: There is? For walls? Gonzales: For walls or fences. Walls or fences are permitted if they fall into right-of- way. So if you have a four -foot wall on the property line and they would fall into right-of-way they would require a permit. Chavez: Okay. Gonzales: It's set back four feet, it falls into your property, you don't require a permit. On the sides ... Hernandez: So I fix whatever I have to fix then. Gonzales: Right, because essentially you would fix whatever's existing that's there but if it falls (inaudible). Chavez: Also cannot put, no chain link fence. No, zero, you cannot put chain link fence. Nichols: Prohibited. MR. CHAVEZ SPEAKING SPANISH. Chavez: Okay. All right. I just want to make clear that there's no chain link fence. Hutson: I just thought while we had him here we should find out so that he doesn't have this problem again. Nichols: And Mr. Chairman. Williams: Yes. Nichols: This review here is to approve the types of windows and doors but you understand you need a permit for the window replacement. Hernandez: Yes. Nichols: And then secondly, the work that you would do inside, if it involves electrical or plumbing work, that also needs a permit. Your cabinet work, your tile work ... 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Chavez: Painting. Nichols: Or painting does not require a permit. Campos: Mr. Chair. I move that we approve Case No. 71678 based on staffs findings. Chavez: Second. Williams: We have a motion and a second. All those in favor. MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. Williams: Motion passes unanimously. BANTER FOR A FEW MOMENTS. IV. DISCUSSION OF OTHER ITEMS Williams: Okay, discussion of any other items. Nichols: Mr. Chair. Williams: Yes. Nichols: I'd like to have maybe a little feedback on understanding from the Review Board. We're going to have another one of the window replacement items come up for next month. MR. NICHOLS SPEAKING SPANISH. Chavez: Not bad. Hutson: Not bad. MR. NICHOLS SPEAKING SPANISH. Dahlin: Where's my translator? Nichols: I said my Spanish is very limited but I want to learn more. Chavez: Well if you played basketball for Cruces High you've got to have some Spanish there somewhere. Nichols: I worked 20 years in the field with (inaudible). Kind of know the construction terms, anyway. My question to you would be we're going to 0 1 have more and more of the types of items for the Board. Architectural 2 changes, those types of things I certainly would understand but if you want 3 us, us being the Community Development Department, to consider 4 window and door replacement and make a judgement on those, we'd be 5 happy to do that, but I'd like to hear back from you. If you want to continue 6 to hear these. 7 8 Gonzales: So essentially we'd amend the code to just remove that as part of it and 9 say that would be staffs review. If they were doing just windows and 10 doors. If it came in structurally, they change anything structural 11 modifications to the windows or something, then we'd bring it forward to 12 the South Mesquite Review Board, but if it was window replacement to 13 something that in this case that would be existing or something that would 14 be similar to and replacing with it, would you still prefer to review them or 15 have staff review them administratively? 16 17 Nichols: When it's the same size basically, same expression, just this one was a 18 one -over -one. 19 20 Williams: Ernie. 21 22 Campos: Mr. Chair, Mr. Nichols. In that case would it be considered, I walk into the 23 permit department and I have this old adobe house, same case as here, 24 and if somebody on staff felt that the South Mesquite Design Review 25 Board should review this it'd be like on a consent agenda as based on 26 staffs findings it's already said and done, we're just going to give it the 27 blessing. 28 29 Nichols: Maybe that's a good suggestion. That way it would still be there. 30 31 Campos: Right. 32 33 Nichols: If you wanted take it off consent to discuss you can do that. Otherwise, 34 you could just give a vote on the consent. That might be a ... 35 36 Campos: I have my packet. I drove by the property. I don't have any issues. We 37 just want it under staffs consent agenda and if anything comes up we can 38 take it out of the consent agenda. That's something I would suggest you 39 do. 40 41 Nichols: That's a good idea. 42 43 Dahlin: I would going to suggest also that we can develop a criteria to avoid this 44 meeting that we could maybe, they could go to the permit counter, submit 45 their plans and stuff, but if the windows, like this meeting here seems to 46 me like a huge waste of time essentially. If we can develop a backdoor or 7 1 criteria that if the windows are the same size, make and model and they 2 look the same. I don't see why we need this. If we can develop some sort 3 of, someone on the staff could be given authority to just say "okay." 4 5 Nichols: We will certainly want to be respectful of the Board's time. But at the 6 same time I want to pass on to you that the Board is being recognized by 7 your neighborhood as being a very good sounding board and kind of a 8 protection for maintaining (inaudible) that you have there and so we want 9 to be respectful of them. But this idea of placing these types of items on a 10 consent, I think that would be a good compromise so that you would have 11 a chance to review it in your packet and when you come to meeting it'll 12 just be boom, boom. If it's the only thing on the agenda, well I guess we'd 13 still have to convene. 14 15 Williams: I think I like the idea of doing that. I would rather not take, right now we 16 have enough problems with people taking what we do seriously. I don't 17 want to take, and we've talked about having the teeth or whatever in 18 things to be able to do things. The more we take away from our 19 responsibility, the less important that this Board becomes. So I think the 20 idea of the consent agenda is a good idea because it still becomes, and 21 as you said the neighborhood, people that will come here recognize and 22 see us as people who, that we live in the neighborhood too, but we're 23 watching out for what's going in the neighborhood. I would not want to 24 see things taken away. David. 25 26 Chavez: Well there's been some cases in the past where in the doors and 27 windows. And I believe in the ordinance the facade of the structure, not 28 the sides, but the facade is the primary concern of keeping the 29 neighborhood in a historic correctness. And so there are some structures 30 in the neighborhood that have actually wood doors, wood windows. In this 31 case here since you took photographs of all the buildings around, and 32 depending also, we totally understand the economic situation to putting 33 wood windows, you're talking almost a grand, ridiculous, or $500 or $600 if 34 you can find it at a deal to put windows in and then a wood door. So it 35 depends on the case, but I believe that so long as we're informed of 36 what's going on. We have done in the past where you all have 37 administratively done it and so it's kind of like it's a no brainer. It's kind of 38 like "okay, yes." But in some cases depending on the structure and 39 depending on where the location of this historic structure is, they be a slue 40 of houses that do have wood doors and do have wood windows and if its 41 in the Federal District, it's a little bit of a tighter situation because that is 42 more of a purist part of the neighborhood, the Original Townsite than say 43 some of the state, but it's a hit and miss. 44 45 Gonzales: Well and I agree, because even reading our code it says to please avoid 46 windows if possible when you do have door replacements, it was just in 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 this neighborhood it was already something that was similar, it's not on our registry as having the date as contributing but it is a date and it was still the same material. I think if it would've been a different material there would've been a different circumstance. When he first came in and he wanted to do steel windows, I was like "no, let's go vinyl or aluminum." You had aluminum, this is what we need to go to. We are at least looking at what the provision says as code to get as close as possible to what we have existing to maintain it. The ones that are wanting to change are usually going to be constructioners that are at least no longer contributing, they may be just the structures that are historic but not contributing (inaudible) status, and so some changes are a little bit easier to work with when you change them as opposed to changing those that are on the structure, but at least the consent agenda will still give us an opportunity to have a meeting, but maybe not have to fully discuss it if we know that there are no concerns there. Hutson: That was my concern as well is because some of the buildings that we have reviewed are definitely historic, definitely contributing and I would hate for that to happen, then all of a sudden now we have this precedence of we are just doing aluminum or we're doing vinyl windows in those cases. So I think that, yes on a case -by -case basis that way we could still be meeting if that was needed, because I don't want to see all of a sudden now all of these characteristics are gone because there's been no need for us to meet. Dahlin: When I do these Federal jobs here which bypasses this because Federal money, we have a hard time qualifying the windows and doors as far as Energy Star. Do we consider that an issue when we're approving windows and doors? Hutson: It depends on the structure, yes, there have been times that this Board has voted that they need to stay wooden. Dahlin: But do we have to consider environmental and the Energy Star ratings? Because they usually put single -pane windows in there. Hutson: No we do not have to consider that. That's not the purview of this Board. This Board is for historic preservation. Chavez: On the question of the rating for environmental windows and stuff, you cannot go out in the marketplace and find single -pane windows, they don't exist. So this gentleman's buying these windows, they're double paned that meets the environmental. Dahlin: Do they say double pane? Well here's my point ... 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Chavez: You can't buy single -pane. Dahlin: That's not my point. My point is though there are windows made every day that look the same but they don't have low in glass, they don't have insulation values and like we can't use anything but Energy Star rated windows. Chavez: Well I understand that but in this case, how do I put it, this Board is not set up on the interest of the environment nor the practicality of the energy saving. We're here only primary as stewards of historic preservation. And so our task is to keep the structure as pure historically as possible. Now in this case being that the house doesn't have a record of age, but 1940s is still over 50 years old. Hutson: Well and already had aluminum windows. Chavez: And already had aluminum windows. And in many cases if you look around the neighborhood like in this case, there's an economic situation. But here's a gentleman that's trying to restore a house that's been vacant and we have vacant issues in this City where at least there's one more that's going to be off the list. So I'm fine with the vinyl windows. The metal door, it's okay in this case, but me, I'm a purist, if you're going to restore the facade, it's on our ordinance, and it's only just the facade, is a wooden door and the wood windows. But in this case its ... that's why it's a per case deal and it depends on what part of the street. Now if he was on, west of Mesquite Street between Campo and Mesquite Street, I mean you're talking, no, absolutely not because that is the Federal district. Gonzales: But you can also drive down that area and you notice most things are wooden, most things have been built out wooden, they've stayed to the status of what they were created. So there's the difference of what the homes have become in certain areas and the materials that people have either replaced with or without permits, we're not trying to justify those, but it's hard to go back and say, place a wooden door if it wasn't ever wooden and we don't what it used to be. So he at least replaced it with what he believed was the existing material for what he had. Hutson: Right. Agreed. Gonzales: So he ... Chavez: Well anything he's doing to the property is 100% improvement. Nichols: Yes that's appropriate. I wanted to mention one other item is we had proposed on this year's budget to hire a Historical Preservation Officer and our budget was approved. I have turned into the City Human Resources 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Department to requisition to advertise for that position and we look to have that person in employment with the City within the next two to three months and they will attend these meetings. Chavez: So when will that be advertised for the opening? July 1? With the new budget? Nichols: I'm hoping that they'll move that quickly. I turned the requisition in for them and we did the qualification, the job description and we made certain that their description there they talked about Federal Historical manuals or reference and that they had background and assessing appropriateness for the different areas. So I feel very confident we'll be able to find that individual. I would like for it to be locally because you know that's what we're talking about here is local structures. So but it is going to be an additional help to the Review Board. Hutson: Nice. Chavez: Good. Nichols: And I'll see that they attend these meetings. Dahlin: What was the name of that position? Nichols: It'll be Historical Preservation Officer. They'll be working for me. They'll be in the Community Development Department. Chavez: They'll have to have a Masters in historic preservation. Nichols: Actually I did ... Dahlin: A Masters degree? Chavez: Yes. Hutson: Wait, wait, wait. What is, no ask him before you make assumptions. What is ... Nichols: I put a Bachelors in there. Chavez: Oh Bachelors, okay. Nichols: Bachelors and then in a field like historical studies, urbanism, architecture, you know four or five different, but a bachelor's degree. Chavez: Okay. 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 Nichols: We didn't think that we'd, probably couldn't get the salary level for a Master's candidate. Chavez: Well in New Mexico your salary, there's going to be a line of people because SHIPO has laid off tons of people. Nichols: Really, wow. Chavez: Well the state, our Governor shut down the Historic Preservation Office practically. I'm on the Historic Preservation Ordinance. Nichols: Yes sir. Chavez: Committee, so we've discussed that and there are quite a few people that we know around the state that are extremely qualified for that position so that's why I'm asking when they can go and start submitting. Nichols: Yes sir. Williams: Any other discussion? Hutson: Yes, actually I have to be the bulldog on this Sara, but I want to know what's going on with that un-stuccoed modular. Gonzales: You're good. So I have a couple of ... Hutson: (inaudible). Gonzales: No worries. I have a date. The property that's located off of Griggs, the 544 E. Griggs, I contacted and spoke with her today. We actually did send Codes out there to give her a reminder. So the permit was pulled on June 22nd. So they have until June 22nd to get the home stuccoed. She's working with her contractor. She knows her deadline and she's working at it. She knows to call in her final inspection by then. It should be done by June 22nd. Hutson: Thank you. Gonzales: So that has been at least talked to. There was also the case of 706 San Pedro which you had asked about the accessory structure. Hutson: Yes. 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 Gonzales: They have not completed that. They are actually getting a second permit because their permit has expired. They have not finished that structure and that's why the other metal structure has not been removed yet. Hutson: Okay. Gonzales: He knows, I did talk to, his name is Chingo, as once he gets that one done he will ... Hutson: Comecindo. Gonzales: Yes, and so he is aware, he knows, and so he is coming into our office to re -permit it because it's an expired permit now because it's more than a year, and then he knows to call it in and get that removed. Chavez: How about the one on Campo behind the old Arroyo Shopping Center? Gonzales: What's that? Chavez: We have a large double wide. Gonzales: That structure was just, we barely got that case a couple months ago. Hutson: Right. Gonzales: So they have a full year. Chavez: They have a full year. Okay. Hutson: Yes they have a year. Gonzales: They have a year because we give them the time so basically the permits are good for six months or a year based on our permitting downstairs. So we give them a year to stucco the actual structure. Chavez: On that particular property when we had the case, the gentleman said that the manufactured home was going to be further back on the property and not so close to the street, and that's not the case. So I mean it sometimes, I get it when I'm out, "Why did you guys vote on this? and "You know we don't want trailers in the neighborhood, it lowers our property values," it's the whole, you know story. We have to have an answer. Gonzales: Well with South Mesquite the regulations are not with the setbacks. They meet the setbacks required on the property so what we bring forth for 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 South Mesquite for Review is that the structure's being stuccoed. So as long as the structure meets the set backs. Williams: It looks like where it was on the plans that I saw. Chavez: On the back, but it was supposed to be further in the back. Williams: I didn't see anything wrong with the location of it at all. Anyway, any other? Hutson: Just one more thing. You had brought up that adobe building that was being demolished. Williams: Yes. Gonzales: We discussed that right before 6:00 as to where the location of the build was. I looked at the corner of Mesquite, I wasn't sure and so I have more information now and I can e-mail everybody once I can get confirmation. Hutson: Okay. Gonzales: Because I looked on Lohman and Mesquite. I didn't have any building permits on file for a demo, but I think I'm a couple of lots over. So I need to find that address and then I can come back with at least the status on that. Hutson: Okay. Perfect. That was all I had. Campos: Before we adjourn, for the record I'm also on the same Historical Preservation Committee. Nichols: Good. Okay. Good. I'll be attending that meeting. I think we have a meeting ... Chavez: We have one on the 11th. Nichols: On the 11th, yes. I'll be attending that meeting as well. Well thank you for the discussion on those two items. Williams: Thank you for coming. Chavez: Thank you for coming. Williams: Any other? 14 1 Nichols: I'm your imbedded director. Informally my background is, my formal 2 education is in architecture, degree in architect and then my practical 3 education is a licensed GB98 contractor. I had to retire both of those 4 licenses in order to take my job with the government, but so I have a 5 vested interest in architectural expression and the reverence for historical 6 structures. 7 8 Chavez: Thank you. 9 10 Williams: Thank you. 11 12 Campos: That's good to know. You got your hands dirty. You know all the ins and 13 outs. 14 15 Nichols: I've done that. I've decided I'd rather drive nails instead of draw lines on 16 papers. 17 18 Campos: I hear that. 19 20 V. STAFF ANNOUNCEMENTS 21 22 VI. ADJOURNMENT (6:34) 23 24 Williams: Meeting's adjourned, I don't know the time. 25 26 Baum: 6:34. 27 28 Williams: 6:34. 29 30 31 32 33 34 Chairperson `P