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09-05-18 SMDRB1 SOUTH MESQUITE DESIGN REVIEW BOARD 2 3 Following are the minutes of the South Mesquite Design Review Board meeting held on 4 September 5, 2018 in 2007-A at City Hall, 700 N. Main Street, Las Cruces, NM 88001. 5 6 MEMBERS PRESENT: Robert Williams 7 Ernie Campos 8 David Chavez 9 Tony Dahlin 10 Faith Hutson 11 12 STAFF PRESENT: Sara Gonzalez, CLC Planner 13 Larry Nichols, Community Development 14 Becky Baum, RC Creations, LLC, Recording Sec. 15 16 I. CALL TO ORDER (6:00) 17 18 Williams: We're going to call the meeting to order. It's 6:00. 19 20 II. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - July 11, 2018 21 22 Williams: First item on the agenda is approval of the minutes for the July 11, 2018 23 meeting. Do we have a motion? Any edits? 24 25 Hutson: I found no edits. I found nothing to edit. 26 27 Chavez: So moved. 28 29 Williams: We've got a motion to approve the minutes as presented. Do we have a 30 second? 31 32 Campos: Second. 33 34 Williams: We have a motion and a second. All those in favor. 35 36 MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. 37 38 Williams: Motion passes. 39 40 Ill. NEW BUSINESS 41 42 1. Case 71737: Request for approval of the replacement to the street facing 43 facade door of the primary structure at 541 S. Camo Street. The subject 44 property is zoned R-3 (High Density Residential District) and is located within 45 the Original Townsite in the South Mesquite Overlay District. Submitted by 1 1 Roof Rescue Construction, contractor, on behalf of Sandra Calderon and 2 Troy Miller, property owners. Council District 1. 3 4 Williams: Moving on to new business. We have Case 71737. 5 6 Gonzales: So this is a property located at 541 S. Campo Street for the front door 7 replacement. The property is currently zoned R-3 which is high -density 8 residential district. There is a duplex on the property. One is currently 9 vacant due to some fire damage. It's located within the South Mesquite 10 Overlay in the Original Townsite. The structure is a non-contributing 11 structure in the Historic Registry, even though it was constructed in 1910. 12 Here's a zoning map of the subject property highlighted in the 13 orange, is the R-3. It is located on the corner of Kansas and Campo 14 Street. Here's an aerial map of the subject property. If you pass by 15 you've seen kind of the yellow sign across from Citizen's Back. It's kind of 16 sitting on a retaining wall, it's kind of high up there to actually see. It's 17 covered by a fence that's in the actual front part of the actual structure. So 18 the applicant is requesting to replace the existing front door. The door is 19 currently a wooden door. The applicant is proposing to essentially replace 20 it with a wooden door that is exactly the same in structure and in design. 21 As you can see, this is the current door, the new door is exactly like the 22 current door, same material, same design, so there would be no structural 23 change to it or any composition change. So with that staff analyzed and 24 said it does meet the materials, the architectural styles. It is compatible 25 with the original structure as well as the overall structures within the 26 district. We did not receive any public input for this case. 27 Here's the property, as you can see it's very hard to see the front 28 door from the actual street view. It is higher because it is on a retaining 29 wall. These are the neighboring properties within them that are adjacent 30 on S. Campo, Kansas Street. So staff is recommending approval of the 31 new replacement of the wooden door since they are consistent with the 32 style of the original door and the overall characteristics of the South 33 Mesquite District. This will also allow for the vacant unit to become 34 utilized once they can do the repairs and finish replacing any of the 35 electrical wiring and fire damage that was also done internally, possibly 36 some of the stucco that's on the outside and make it basically another 37 livable unit. So I leave you with your options to vote "yes" to approve, "no" 38 to deny, vote to amend, or vote to table. The applicants are her as well. 39 40 Williams: Any one have any questions? 41 42 Campos: I have none. 43 44 Williams: Do we have a motion to approve? 45 46 Chavez: Approve. 2 1 2 Williams: We have a motion to approve. A second? 3 4 Hutson: I'll second. 5 6 Williams: We have a motion and a second. All those in favor. 7 8 MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. 9 10 Williams: Motion passes. We want to thank you guys for coming. 11 12 BANTER FOR A FEW MOMENTS. 13 14 IV. DISCUSSION OF OTHER ITEMS 15 16 1. Proposed design for restroom at Klein Park 17 18 Williams: Next item on the agenda is discussion of other items, and we have a 19 discussion of a proposed design for a restroom at Klein Park. 20 21 Gonzales: Okay. So with this there is not really a staff presentation. I provided 22 within your packet kind of an outline of kind of just colors, metals, what 23 they're proposing. Basically our Parks and Rec department received a 24 request to possibly seek funding through the state Legislature for a 25 restroom in Klein Park. In preparation for that, they have come forward to 26 ask what possible designs would be appropriate and would fit in with the 27 South Mesquite District if there was a bathroom proposed and funded by a 28 separate organization to be placed onto this park that would be in the City. 29 So here is just more a general discussion. Any comments that you would 30 like to provide that may give the Parks and Rec Department some 31 guidance or maybe some next steps were things to actually look forward 32 to or not look forward to as far as what you like being there, not being 33 there. Just a general discussion to provide information is what we're 34 looking for at this point in time. So no proposal has been submitted to the 35 City for a design. There's been no request for a building permit so it's 36 really just at a preliminary stage at this point in time. If they do not receive 37 state funding or granting, then there would be no possibility of this getting 38 it. So there are private residents going out looking for state funding to 39 fund for this park to have a restroom. Anybody want to start? 40 41 Williams: Any discussion? 42 43 Campos: You want to go first? Go first. 44 45 Chavez: I have had an opportunity to speak to some of the property owners around 46 the park because I was up there for another reason, and a great number 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 of them are against having a bathroom at the park because of the fact that it's taken years to clean that park up. The drug, the gangs have dissipated and if you, I was at a meeting with the City Police Department and the two highest crime areas in the City are Young Park and Apodaca and it has to do with the bathrooms because there's a place for these people to do their criminal acts basically. Young Park is one of the highest crime areas of the City right now and basically so is the Apodaca area. The Mesquite area, we're still fortunate, we're at 35% less crime than the rest of the City. That includes Picacho Hills and Sonoma Ranch, so to bring the facility in that's going to maybe bring that element back to the park after all, we've had two, three years of no crimes except Friday we got our first tag on the bandstand. But since then we've been very fortunate. There needs to be discussion. I think we need to have the property owners that live around Klein Park to have a little bit more say in the conversation because they're the ones that are going to have to live with it day in and day out. Williams: Anyone else? Dahlin: I'm thinking. I can't see bathrooms being a major component to discussion because there are bathrooms all over the City. Chavez: There are only two bathrooms in two parks. Dahlin: Okay. Chavez: And they are high crime right now. Dahlin: So that means bathrooms cause crime? Chavez: They attract ... Dahlin: What I'm trying to say is it just a coincidence? Why do they go over there and not here? Chavez: I beg your pardon? Dahlin: Why is there crime at these other two parks that you mentioned, why is that high as opposed to this park here? Could it be the environment? Could it be where it is? Chavez: Actually the police reports have indicated that bathrooms, this is a nationwide report, a lot of communities and cities are not putting bathrooms in their parks for those particular reasons because it is attracting the crime element. Sexual predators, especially when there's a lot of kids play in the park, that is a huge danger. The drug element, and 2 1 the gang element. Once you get a bunch of people in the bathroom, then 2 who knows what goes on. It is reported, there are stats on it, so it's 3 nothing that I'm making up. You can look it up yourself. It's just the thing 4 is that the conversations we've had is that Apodaca Park is a huge park. 5 They have thousands of people that attend that park. Young Park's the 6 same condition. Our park here is not in that volume of attendance and 7 basically I feel that the property owners around the park should have a 8 major say as to if they want to open their front door and see a bathroom, 9 because I guarantee you if I had a house across from Klein Park that 10 would be absolutely not. 11 12 Dahlin: Well coming from Venice Beach, we didn't have bathrooms down there for 13 a long long time and the crime was out of control and there was lots of 14 what they call indecent exposure crimes because people were pooping 15 and peeing wherever they could around, find a tree basically. And a lot of 16 bathrooms, then the gas stations stopped serving people if they weren't 17 customers. Restaurants won't do it. Crime went sky rocketed as far as 18 the sexual component. People peeing and basic levels of undress. And 19 then when we put in our bathrooms the crime went down substantially, of 20 course the police had to, their component was they had to have someone 21 wandering around there from time to time to do it. Do they not have the 22 manpower to do it? 23 24 Chavez: They're doing it, just the crime is bad. And the other side of the coin, 25 Venice Beach is what a City of a million? We're talking a community, 26 neighborhood here ... 27 28 Dahlin: 60,000. 29 30 Chavez: So I mean we're talking numbers here. 31 32 Dahlin: If the neighbors are against it I might fall in line with that, but not having a 33 bathroom seems. What about the restaurant? Where do they pee? 34 35 Chavez: They don't. They go home. 36 37 Hutson: And so I want to state up front I agree with David to a certain extent that 1 38 think it needs to be community dialogue and what the community and 39 property owners around there feel with Parks and Rec. I have no dog in 40 the fight one way or another. I absolutely don't. But for the record we 41 have another park, Corey Park which I don't know what else its name is 42 but it is the one that is just east of the Munson Center, the little park there 43 and then there's the big soccer field. There is a bathroom there and that 44 has never been vandalized and there is really I don't believe any crime 45 going on there. So I think the dialogue should be about what neighbors 46 want and property owners as far as that goes, but I just feel like I need to 5 1 set the record that just not every park that we have here in town that has a 2 bathroom necessarily has a crime component to it. 3 4 Williams: I grew up in Albuquerque and I grew up across the street from, well we 5 were in the county and it was a county park and they had bathrooms when 6 1 grew up and there was a lot of vandalism at the bathrooms for I'd say 7 probably 90% of the time I was there the bathrooms were shut down 8 because they were damaged or something and there was a lot of graffiti. 9 There necessarily wasn't a lot of crime, there was a lot of vandalism and 10 they eventually remodeled the park, got rid of the bathrooms and it really 11 improved the park. So I think Klein Park is too small necessarily for 12 bathroom facility. I think as far as restrooms and things go, whenever 13 there's big events there they should be bringing in Porta Pottys because 14 which I think will accommodate those needs and stuff like that but I think 15 the park is too small to really actually have a bathroom. I just live down 16 the road from it but again the same thing. I mean if the community 17 decides they want one there, I'm okay with it, but I don't personally agree 18 with it. 19 20 Hutson: I think a reasonable option, and Albuquerque has these and my husband 21 and I have talked a lot about that and I think the City could have their 22 employees manufacture it, but they have trailers on wheels that they bring 23 the bathrooms in and they're amazing. They're double sided so one side 24 is women's, the other side is men's, there's a ramp that goes up them. 25 There's like three or four stalls in each one and they just pull it in with a 26 dually and pull it out. And I've used those up there in Albuquerque and to 27 me that would make a lot of sense and the City could even manufacture 28 their own, look at plans and manufacture their own or take that state 29 funding and do that that could be pulled around to parks when there was a 30 need. And that would eliminate the vandalism, that would I think be better 31 for residents there not having to look out windows and see that. 32 33 Nichols: Mr. Chairman. 34 35 Williams: Yes. 36 37 Nichols: If I understand you correctly you were saying that if there was going to be 38 an event then, then they would bring in some type of portable restroom, 39 otherwise the park is functioning properly and efficiently and to the liking of 40 the neighbors as it is. 41 42 Hutson: Right. 43 44 Nichols: That's a good point. 45 N 1 Gonzales: What I would make is a recommendation for Parks to actually, to contact 2 the people who are actually looking for the state funding, work with them 3 to contact, maybe do a neighborhood group and say can you all get 4 together and actually discuss what it is that they're trying to do, why 5 they're trying to do it, who's trying to do it, because again at this point 1 6 don't have any documentation of who's even proposing anything. We just 7 know that it's, some residents in the neighborhood that are seeking the 8 funding. So through Parks I would just make a recommendation that they 9 would do a reach out with the company who will work with the residents 10 who want to put it in and then reach out to the community to say "Let's 11 having a meeting, discuss what people do want or don't want." Because it 12 may or may not stop the proposal before it even starts. If it is more the 13 neighbors don't want it, that's maybe something they need to know now 14 and that's why we have these kinds of discussions because they probably 15 didn't think that anybody would mind or would have any concerns, not 16 necessarily knowing that maybe I want it but you don't. So this is 17 information I can provide back to them and that way they can make the 18 next step and say "Okay maybe we need to have a community meeting. 19 We all need to get together, let everybody know. Let's have this meeting, 20 discuss this and see what's on the table." 21 22 Williams: David. 23 24 Chavez: There was another conversation that one the reasons that Klein Park has 25 lost a lot of City events like we used to have Music in the Park, Movies in 26 the Park, and the City's complaint is that we don't have any parking. 27 There's a huge lot behind La Casita restaurant on the corner of Organ and 28 Tornillo and it's for sale. I believe the folks live in California. It's a huge 29 lot. And so if there was a way that partner with La Casita because La 30 Casita's going to be expanding their restaurant, doubling the size, that 31 there's a partnership with Capital Outlay Funding and their funding to 32 acquire this lot. There maybe could be a bathroom placed in that lot 33 where it would suffice the bathroom needs of the park but not in the park 34 and create parking for Klein Park because we do have events at the park 35 and we've had some, up to 2,000 people at the park. Luckily we've had 36 not complaints, people don't mind having cars parked in front of their 37 homes so long as they're not blocking their driveways. That might be an 38 option. But I mean there has to be a lot more research done. See the 39 availability of this property, if it's at all possible as a Plan B, versus having 40 something in the park. I agree with Robert here that the park is not big 41 enough for a bathroom. It will end up taking something either away from 42 the child's playgrounds, the soccer fields that we have there, the grill area, 43 and so it would, the park's not that big. I mean it's probably double the 44 size of Pioneer Park but you won't find a bathroom at Pioneer Park ever. 45 46 Williams: Tony. 7 1 2 Campos: Real quick. Let me go first brother. I've been wrestling with that, with this 3 bathroom deal back and forth just brainstorming it and yeah I worry about 4 the crime. There could be a shooting gallery or some molestation place, 5 but at the same time it could also be utilized for the people using the park 6 and kind of respect keep it clean and avoid all the criminal activity. There 7 are cameras out there right? 8 9 Chavez: They would have to readjust cameras to face the bathroom doors. 10 11 Campos: On the other side of the coin I did also look at the fact what David had 12 suggested, the parking lot over at La Nueva Casita, question to staff. Ms. 13 Gonzales, can staff look into turning that into a parking lot, City 14 maintained? 15 16 Gonzales: Staff would probably not look at turning that into a parking lot. That would 17 not be a request of staff. The Park is being maintained as it is. It could be 18 a recommendation to the constituents who are looking to get funding to 19 maybe do that as an approach and maybe split it up as a parking lot and 20 to a restroom. 21 22 Campos: Right. 23 24 Gonzales: As far as us purchasing that lot and making that into a parking lot, you 25 would have to probably talk with Parks and Rec to see if they're looking at 26 purchasing that lot or wanting to expand with the park running and being 27 maintained the way it is, they would have to actually say yes or no to 28 wanting to expand, put that is a parking lot area. 29 30 Campos: So it'll be up to the property owner to determine if they're going to 31 purchase that property and turn it into a parking lot, who's going to 32 maintain it. 33 34 Gonzales: The property owner would maintain it, because unless it's dedicated to the 35 City or becomes City property, we would not maintain it. So whoever 36 purchases that property would be the maintenance on that property. 37 38 Campos: Or I like the idea that Faith had about the portables being rolled in and out. 39 Maybe we can use that as a pilot to see how it pans out. How the public's 40 going to treat the bathrooms? 41 42 Williams: Tony. 43 44 Dahlin: Why are we having this discussion? Does that fall under our auspices? 45 1.1 1 Gonzales: It does because it's part of the South Mesquite Overlay. And so it came 2 forth with there are some people who want to look for funding to put in, 3 some residents are looking to fund some bathrooms that are coming in. 4 With that it's on the Parks area. They design a bathroom that goes in, 5 they want to make sure that it's going to meet the requirements of the 6 South Mesquite Overlay, so in your packets you were provided some kind 7 of samples and things to provide comments if this were to be approved 8 and they could actually design something there. With this discussion 9 though I think that Parks is going to definitely need to contact the residents 10 who are trying to seek the funding and maybe do some more research 11 before this becomes another topic of how to actually design it, it's going to 12 be more of is it going to be feasible within this park? Is it going to suit the 13 needs of those who are using the park? Those who have to visually look 14 at the park. The constituents around that park. And so I think they're 15 going to have to go back and do a little bit more research and then come 16 forward with an actual design. Once maybe they had a community 17 meeting or talked to the residents within that area to see if that's what they 18 want to do. 19 20 Williams: I want to kind of close the discussion from us. I want to open it up, we've 21 got a lot of people here that may want to talk. So I'm going to open it up to 22 the public, if you want to say anything, please state your name and what 23 you'd like to say. 24 25 Cruise: Yes, thank you Mr. Chair. My name is Robert Cruise. This is my wife 26 Martha. We have been working now a year on the restoration of two 27 properties on the park. We purchased those properties, because we are 28 historic preservationists at heart and we came before the Design Review 29 and we are doing everything to bring those back original. I just want to 30 state that today I'm restoring 148-year-old windows and the big structure 31 that faces the park and it just kind of hit me that you know for 148 years 32 people have been looking at that property, because it hasn't always been 33 a park, but that was the foundation that was where Las Cruces started 34 was where the park now is. That's where the (inaudible) for (inaudible). 35 1 think about how many people have looked at that area and I'm 36 sitting there thinking "You know if we spend all this money to bring these 37 properties up to their historic appearance of the area. Following all the 38 guidelines of the Design Review Board and the City permitting process, 39 and all of a sudden the people who are going to be residing in our 40 properties are going to look at the back wall of a bathroom and not see the 41 park or it put in front of us." And you look around that park, the streets are 42 very narrow, two of them are one ways, two of them are two ways, they 43 are very narrow. On the square, three and half sides of the square are 44 residents. Whose house would you put it in front of? Or are you going to 45 put it in front of a restaurant? That's not real appealing for their business 46 purposes or in front of the coffee shop. So our stake in this is as investors E 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 in Mesquite, that is our focus is preservation of these older homes. These were built in the 1870s. To put it in perspective, Geronimo wasn't even captured for another 16 years after these houses were built. That's how old they are. We want to continue that preservation but I'm there all day every single day. I see David, I see him coming. I see a lot of the residents coming and going there. The park is not clean as far as the transient people coming through. It was very interesting that at Councilor Gandara's meeting about a month ago one of the officers even stated about the (inaudible) that have been put in there, we have electricity in them, that that in itself can attract crime and it wasn't two weeks after that, I show up there around 6:45 every morning, there was a guy sitting there plugged in across from us with a hot plate cooking not food, he was cooking up his mix for the day and as soon as the City shows up, Parks and Rec is doing an amazing job of keeping that park clean. I mean with all events going on this weekend they mowed the grass twice in two days. So this park cannot be blinded by a building that is going to be in front of somebody's house, in front of a restaurant, and it's too small. There has to be an alternative solution. And I'll be honest with you because I am there every day, six days a week, and there's not that much activity that stays longer than maybe 30, 45 minutes. So for me to sit there and say "You know well there are kids out there for an hour or two hours." That's not happening to where they would need the facility. I would challenge Parks and Rec to monitor and watch the activity. Even on the weekends, it's active but it's not, people aren't there for hours. So as an investor in the Mesquite Historic District, my other concern is knowing, and I have researched this since this came up and there are a lot of articles and studies done by other cities that you can find on the web, but the property values will go down. It is inevitable that they will go down for everyone on the park, because who's going to want to buy the house on the park that's looking at the back of the restroom. So somebody's going to take the big hit but all of us are going to take the hit. Williams: Thank you. Anyone else? Yes. Oliver -Lewis: I'm Irene Oliver -Lewis. I'm an old town family, Fitch, Triviz, Oliver family in the neighborhood and this is a discussion that's been going on for about four years, whether there should be bathrooms at Klein Park. And my observation of the majority of the people is that they do not want a bathroom. There are a few people that keep bringing it up in hopes that it will happen in disregard of the majority of the people that do not want it to happen. I agree with Chairman Williams that the beauty of the park would be diminished because of the size, and if you put a bathroom there, it's like Mr. Cruise said, I have no idea where you would put it in that size of a park. The use of Klein Park is totally different from the bigger parks of Apodaca and Young Park which already have bathrooms in them. So you 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 have to look at the aesthetics and the use of Klein Park. It's a neighborhood park and people go there in the neighborhood for 45 minutes to walk around, to whatever. I also feel it's really important that the first priority are the people who live there. The people around the park. It is their property. It is their value. They are there 24/7. Someone else isn't there 24/7. So they are the ones that need to be the first voices of the discussion of this concept. And Parks and Rec has to talk to those. I have heard that the owners of La Nueva Casita are wonderful people and they allow people to come and use their bathroom. Well they need to say no, no more, and so that they don't be abused in the use of the bathroom of their place. And then there's a longer discussion that this group is probably going to have to look at and that is the whole concept that now this is considered an Arts and Cultural district and there are many thing in the plan I don't know if you all have seen as members of this Committee, have seen the significance of that plan that was adopted as a plan by the City Council on July 16th and in that plan there are all sorts of things discussing economic development, neighborhood, residential activity, cultural activity, and historic preservation in the neighborhood. And Klein Park is key to the center. It is almost like mentally it has replaced what St. Genevieve's was. It is becoming the central point of the neighborhood. And to think about that five, 10, 15 years from now, any decision to put a bathroom in there will diminish the work of this Arts and Cultural district. Our sister was crowned, we went to festivals there when we were little in the '50s and the '60s and I loved the park because I remember my sister was queen in the park. You know they had a fiesta every year and it was a big thing when you're a little kid and your sister is crowned in that bandstand, it wasn't a bandstand then but I just caution you and I would (inaudible) you as staff to tell Parks and Rec that they are trying to do so many things, they're doing wonderful things for the City, but this will have long-term repercussion if you put in a bathroom. Williams: Thank you. Anyone else? Dahlin: Who's for the park? Who's pushing for this? Rodriguez: Not us. Dahlin: Well I've heard all of the people against it but I don't know anybody that's for it. Oliver -Lewis: Well there is a group of people who would want it. I don't choose to say their names because they should speak for themselves, but there are about four to five people who keep saying that there's a need for the use to be there and to utilize it. They have to speak for themselves. I can't speak for them. 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Dahlin: I mean are they neighbors, are they outsiders? Oliver -Lewis: No. Yes. Dahlin: I haven't heard anything about who is for it. Gonzales: That's why I say the only thing that was provided to staff or to me, I'm just here because Parks and Rec could not be here tonight to at least give you more information on this discussion. What was provided to me was that there were residents going for state funding. So it's not even Parks and Rec proposing this. This is residents of the neighborhood are proposing to find state funding. Parks and Rec is just saying "If they get state funding, how do we comply with the South Mesquite Ordinance?" They're not asking to build it. They're not requesting to build it. They're saying "How do we comply with the Ordinance that's in place?" So we're just trying to make sure as far as staff that we follow the ordinance as well because if it is proposed, if it is approved and they do find the funding and they come back, we want to make sure we've done our due diligence meeting the requirements of the Overlay as far as the design. We're not proposing those. Nichols: You have established your Overlay, this Overlay, and you're the Board that makes, hears cases, makes judgements, that makes ruling on that. And so that's why we would be bringing this item to you that it may be coming before you in some point in the future, depending upon the success of folks that want the park are getting funding. I don't know, every time we go to Santa Fe for money we don't have much luck, but that's what's behind the item on the agenda. Williams: So Tony the reason that this is on the agenda now is because they received a letter by people that want to do this, so they're bringing it up right now for discussion. So we're discussing it and right now I think if there's any, are there any other comments? I'm going to close the discussion on it and there's nothing to vote on or anything like that. Oliver -Lewis: I just want to make an acknowledgement that many of you may not know, that the person who led your Overlay Ordinance is this lady right here, Sylvia Camunez. She was the president of Las Esperanzas. Williams: Thank you. Oliver -Lewis: And was instrumental in the starting of the Overlay. Chavez: 2005. 12 1 Oliver -Lewis: Right. 2 3 Williams: Thank you. Thank you guys for being here today. With that I think Faith 4 did you want to bring something up? I don't know if you want to discuss it 5 now or bring it up for the agenda for next meeting. 6 7 Hutson: Well it doesn't matter. It's about fencing because I think we need to define 8 that better. Okay. 9 10 Williams: And I think we probably want to put it on the agenda for the next meeting 11 so that people have a chance to. 12 13 Nichols: Mr. Chair. We'll do that. 14 15 Williams: So that people have a chance to. 16 17 Hutson: I requested it for this meeting. 18 19 Williams: I know but the agenda had already been posted so it's like. So we need to 20 get it out for public aware of it. Is that correct? 21 22 Gonzales: So just a general discussion item because I mean the way that the South 23 Mesquite Ordinance is written is the only thing not allowed within South 24 Mesquite is the chain link fences unless you were to make some type of 25 repair to your fences and there's a certain timeframe in which you can 26 repair them, but other than that the other fences would be an allowed 27 fence within the South Mesquite Overlay. So it's kind of what would be 28 the, what is it that you wanted to ... 29 30 Hutson: So the reason that this came up was that somebody that I know brought a 31 concern to me that when she went to apply for a permit she wanted to use 32 cattle panel and was told that she could not. That it was not allowed. And 33 was told by a planner, not just you know just a front desk person. And so 34 she's like, she was very frustrated over the incident and the Overlay, the 35 only thing the Overlay states is that we cannot use chain link fence. So 36 again we have a disparity if we going to allow other materials, only going 37 to say we cannot use chain link, then people that want to put up fencing 38 and have privacy or security cannot be told in some instances that they 39 cannot do this and other instances it's okay. So I thought that as a Board 40 we either ought to define that again or actually just make it clear, have a 41 conversation with staff that we have to be consistent with this. Because 42 what she wants to use is very much used in here. I actually sent you 43 some photos, I e-mailed you tonight, very tastefully done, but you know 44 we need to be all on the same page and not some people told no and 45 some people told yes when it's definitely in the neighborhood and 13 1 definitely can be used. So she started this project about almost three 2 months ago and has still not got it resolved. 3 4 Nichols: Mr. Chair. If I may? 5 6 Williams: Yes. 7 8 Nichols: Do you know the height of the fence that was being proposed? 9 10 Hutson: Six feet. And it is not public access, it is on the side yard. 11 12 Nichols: It is six feet or less right. 13 14 Gonzales: So as long as it's not within the first, your front setback. Your front 15 setback can only be four -feet high. 16 17 Hutson: Right. 18 19 Gonzales: After your front setback you can go up to eight feet high. The only time 20 you require permits is if you're at six feet or above. 21 22 Hutson: Right. 23 24 Gonzales: And it can fall within the right-of-way or if a retaining wall, and it may be 25 where I don't know if maybe just misinformed. Because when I got your e- 26 mail that's why I e-mailed back saying the only thing you can't do is chain 27 link. 28 29 Hutson: Right. Right. 30 31 Gonzales: You drive through the neighborhood and there's definitely different 32 materials, different designs. It's very creative. It leaves everybody open 33 to a creative mind throughout the district. And so it may just be something 34 where I can take that back to my supervisor and to staff and just reiterate 35 that chain link fence is the only not allowed and then just reiterate the 36 setback provisions that are allowed on the property, because we just don't 37 want any six-foot fences in the front yard. We know some of them are 38 existing, so they can remain that way. If anything gets torn down though it 39 has to be replaced in the current setbacks and height restrictions. I can 40 just take that back as a reminder to our staff and to everybody else that's 41 dealing with any of the public members that come in. You're more than 42 welcome to give her my number, I will talk to her and I will help her with 43 her permit as I was to do anybody else's permit. 44 45 Hutson: Okay. 46 14 1 Nichols: Mr. Chairman and Board Member Hutson. If it was less than six feet, or 2 six feet or less a permit would not have been required. 3 4 Gonzales: It does if it's in the front though, only because it'll fall in the right-of-way. 5 6 Nichols: In the front. If it wasn't in the front I don't know if this one was or not. 7 8 Hutson: No actually, well it runs west to east so it will intersect to where that front 9 is and so I did advise her to talk to staff you know to pull a permit or at 10 least to bring in her proposal, they would be the ones to tell her not, but 11 since it does come up to the corner of that property, just on that very edge 12 there, I felt that she should pull a permit or at least talk to them. 13 14 Gonzales: Which would work just because as long as it doesn't fall onto right-of-way 15 you don't require it if it's less than six feet. And then when anytime it's six 16 feet or higher is when you require that permit because we just want to 17 make sure it's going to falling into right-of-way, it's actually structurally 18 sound. 19 20 Hutson: Right. 21 22 Gonzales: It's the main thing of what we're looking for and then anything (inaudible). 23 24 Chavez: She's been very upset. I mean we tried to calm her down and it wasn't 25 working. 26 27 Gonzales: Have her contact me. You have my contact information and I will work 28 with her and helping her get through the process of the permit. I can 29 maybe identify if there was a concern or maybe where it's laid out on the 30 property, but there may not be an issue. But as far as a material, that 31 would be an allowed material to be used. 32 33 Hutson: I also think it's just good for the Board to just have this dialogue and make 34 sure that we don't give out false information you know with just the 35 misunderstanding or something as well. So that's why I wanted it brought 36 up. 37 38 Gonzales: If you ever get information or anything, contact one of us or somebody, let 39 us know, give them our contact information. Maybe someone's just 40 reading it inappropriately or maybe it's just misunderstood. Somebody 41 else might know, read something different and help them with this. So if 42 you run into that problem, if any of you, even just members of the public, if 43 you run into problems or have questions, that's what we're here for, come 44 in, meet with several of us, hopefully we'll all have the same answer, but 1 45 would say come in and meet with us and we can at least find something or 46 go through the code together and help one another. 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 Nichols: I would tell the Board this is that that is my prime concern is that we not only have consistency in the way the code is read and applied, not necessarily interpreted, but applied and then consistent among our staff. And the same thing goes for inspection effort. That's something that we work on diligently every day. It shouldn't make a difference which planners you saw or individual. That code tech should be applied uniformly. Hutson: Okay. Nichols: On a case to case. Chavez: Thank you. Williams: Thank you for bringing this up because I wasn't sure what it was about but that was appropriate for this. Gonzales: It's okay. A little more information. Williams: So we don't need to have it on the agenda for next month. Any other discussions? Hutson: Just about the money we have, what we're going to do as far as how we might. Williams: Advertising. Hutson: So over a year ago Tony had donated $1,000 for us to use to get the word out publically on what the Overlay is about and just specifics on the importance of it and how to apply for it and I just, he put me in charge of the money. So I still have it and I'm like we need to do something about it because we started this dialogue over a year ago on how best to advertise or where best to spend that money to again get out the word more about the function of the Board, the importance of this Board and the importance of the Overlay. Gonzales: We did send out the flyers, probably about three months ago we sent out the flyers to everybody. I did at least receive calls because everybody was like "Am I in violation?" That was one of their concerns. I was like "No, but it's just a reminder." It made people call and contact us to see what district they were in, what does this mean, how do they move forward with projects? We did I believe a few of the Bulletin's in the past months. We haven't done anything recently. I don't know what would be a good recommendation to use the $1,000 for as far as getting the information 1 out. Any suggestions? If you're receiving it and you're in the Overlay. 1 2 asked just because some times we get stuff. 3 4 Cruise: I'll provide a comment because a public person who when we first 5 purchased our first property in the Mesquite Overlay to a full restoration 6 line I didn't know anything about the new ordinance you know going in. 1 7 didn't know what it was going to entail, how it was going to work or 8 anything. I learned through the process once my contractor told me, you 9 have to go to the City, but he didn't know what was going to be said, but 10 there wasn't anything other than, I think Paul Mach was the one who 11 initially gave me a link that said "Here go read this" and then it was like. If 12 it hadn't been for dialogue with him I wouldn't even know where to go get 13 it, so I agree. The worst violators are your contractors. I promise you that. 14 They won't tell anybody, that means it's going to keep them from coming 15 doing a job and getting out. And then the resident is the one who's left 16 holding the bag. 17 18 Nichols: Mr. Chairman and Members of the Board. I have a couple of suggestion 19 perhaps. First of all I guess I'll start with something I would not do, 20 although I don't harbor any ill will to the newspaper, but it's just not read 21 that much any more. Have you thought about investigating into a 22 website? Have someone design a website for you. That might be a 23 possibility. Another thing that I would suggest, this wouldn't cost money, 24 but we are currently in the update of the Comprehensive Plan for the City 25 of which the Mesquite Overlay is going to be a big part of that and when 26 that discussion comes to have one or two or all of you attend that 27 particular meeting and talk to the consultant and to the staff about what 28 role is this Overlay going to play in the overall Comprehensive Plan. 29 Because that information will be put out publically on the Comprehensive 30 Plan updates, would include you, so there are two suggestions. I don't 31 know what a website would cost. 32 33 Gonzales: I may even suggest, I know there's like a community portal that's going 34 around for a lot of the neighborhoods, maybe you just post to one of 35 those, it's a public one. I'll find out what at least the URL is and I can send 36 that to you. A lot of the communities are doing it when they're trying to get 37 feed back within their neighborhoods and community associations. Maybe 38 you create one of those and it becomes a portal for your neighborhood. 39 Your people come in, they move in, you give them a thing, say "Look on 40 our website, here's some information. This is what we do. This is 41 processes that we go through. This is what we're trying to keep and stay 42 historic." That may be an idea as well. I know there's at least two or three 43 of them out there that we've seen and usually it's public input, like 44 meetings like these actually discussions that are taking place "Hey did you 45 hear this happened and this happened?" So maybe we can keep them 46 informed or maybe we can have even more attendance of some our 17 1 meetings when we do have them because people are kind of curious of 2 the process or what's required. 3 4 Nichols: Mr. Chairman and Board. A third suggestion, I just thought about one, you 5 mentioned about the contractors being the folks that may not know as 6 much about this Board as they need to, the Las Cruces Homebuilders 7 Association has monthly meetings, they have luncheons. You could 8 produce some flyers and post them to have handed out at that meeting. 1 9 think that would be. 10 11 Gonzales: Realtors do attend that meeting. People who are selling properties, may 12 help whenever they're selling properties, doing their research, if they know 13 more about the process maybe they can help with people who are 14 purchasing the properties within the South Mesquite (inaudible). 15 16 Hutson: Maybe to that effect we even do discs, because discs are not very 17 expensive to burn. What do you think about that, that they just get, they 18 could be handed out and. 19 20 Williams: I think discs the same as jump drives and stuff will just get put inside and 21 they won't get looked, so I think a flyer is probably do more. 22 23 Chavez: Flyer better. 24 25 Nichols: Mr. Chairman, Board Members. I have a third idea, fourth idea. This one 26 is a little brochure we have for Community Development. It talks about 27 our strategic business plan. But it's a little tri-fold and we're putting these 28 everywhere and I don't think they're terribly costly but have it designed 29 and handed out and at different board meetings. 30 31 Williams: That could be maybe something left, we could have little things and put 32 them out La Nueva Casita. 33 34 Chavez: Oh restaurants and galleries. 35 36 Williams: And everything and people can grab as they go out. Yes. 37 38 Oliver -Lewis: I think again it's bigger, it's an awareness thing and going back to the Arts 39 and Cultural district. Some people don't even realize that this is the 40 historic neighborhood in the City and all the significance of what the 41 homes mean. And so if you make an awareness and a connection to all 42 that, the Overlay, anybody who comes in to buy a house or to renovate a 43 house, has to come through this Committee, but it's a bigger focus of 44 understanding, the significance of historic preservation. And it ties into 45 your whole historic preservation that you're doing in the City. And I think 46 that perhaps even the Arts and Cultural coordinating council could look at in 1 this, because it's one of the strategies to look at building and what's 2 happening. So it's in there already in a strategy and how they can help 3 you get more information out but I think the simple brochure like you did is, 4 you know people can look at it, keep it, throw it, you know stuff like that. 5 6 Nichols: (inaudible). 7 8 Oliver -Lewis: Exactly. You know it's a real, an example of some of your successes that 9 came from the Overlay, what it was before. What are the successes that, 10 what they've done in the historic preservation. 11 12 Rodriguez: If you do something like that, a brochure we are going to be celebrating 13 during the month of May, May 2019, historic preservation month. We can 14 distribute those during the different activities that will be going on. 15 16 Williams: So I'm going to close the discussion on that but put it on the agenda for 17 next month to kind of maybe come up with, give us all time to kind of think 18 about it a little bit and come back with maybe a final solution and then we 19 get them to look at what we need to do to start developing it and stuff like 20 that. So any other items of discussion? 21 22 Campos: But before we adjourn I'd like to thank staff for bringing the attention to us 23 with the bathroom issue. 24 25 Williams: Yes. 26 27 Campos: Thank you for that. Something we'll need to hash out. Thank you. That's 28 all I have. 29 30 Williams: David. 31 32 Chavez: I just one more item if we could add for next agenda. In 2005 the City 33 passed resolution for the Mesquite Historic District Neighborhood Design 34 Plan. And to date has never been implemented. So it would be nice if we 35 could add that to the agenda to have a discussion. I believe the plan is on 36 the City's website. So if we could maybe get copies for everybody. I have 37 the original copy I believe. Ms. Camunez there has one too. But I think 38 it's important that all these resolutions that get passed and tens of 39 thousands of dollars were spent on these committees and charrettes and 40 stuff and less than 20% get implemented and it's about time we start not 41 wasting the money and the time that was taken to produce some of these 42 thing, and there are some elements here that probably work perfectly for, 43 we kind of missed the boat on, but it's here. So if you could put that on the 44 agenda for next month please. 45 46 Williams: Anything else? 19 2 V. STAFF ANNOUNCEMENTS 3 4 VI. ADJOURNMENT (6:51) 5 6 Williams: With that I move to adjourn the meeting. It is 6:51. Thank you everybody 7 for coming and hope to see you next time. 8 9 10 12 13 Chairperson 20