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10-03-18 SMDRB1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 SOUTH MESQUITE DESIGN REVIEW BOARD Following are the minutes of the South Mesquite Design Review Board meeting held on October 3, 2018 in 2007-A at City Hall, 700 N. Main Street, Las Cruces, NM 88001. MEMBERS PRESENT: Robert Williams David Chavez Tony Dahlin Faith Hutson Ernie Campos STAFF PRESENT: Sara Gonzales, CLC Planner Larry Nichols, Community Development Becky Baum, RC Creations, LLC, Recording Sec. I. CALL TO ORDER (6:00) Williams: I now have 6:00 on my phone so we'll call the meeting to order. II. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - September 5, 2018 Williams: First item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes from September 5, 2018. Anyone have any comments or questions? Chavez: Yes I do. Question to staff: Since we had that discussion on Klein Park restrooms will, I believe, I guess it was Cathy Mathews that submitted that, would she be getting a copy too of what we discussed? Gonzales: She already received it. Chavez: She already received it? Gonzales: She already received all the minutes from the meeting and had forwarded them on to the person who was applying for grants and then also informed me that the bathrooms were part of the Klein Park Master Plan. Chavez: True but they're ... Gonzales: And so with that there is that consideration of it has already been put into that proposal. Chavez: Well the thing is though if the neighborhood or the property owners that are on the park, it doesn't matter what plan there is if they don't want it. Williams: But this is ... 1 1 Gonzales: That's where they'll have to community meeting. 2 3 Williams: This isn't on the agenda. 4 5 Chavez: I'm sorry. If I could make, right. I just wanted to make sure that Cathy 6 Mathews had gotten ... 7 8 Gonzales: Yes. 9 10 Nichols: I just wanted to say, Mr. Chairman. Point of order. 11 12 Chavez: I beg your pardon. 13 14 Nichols: Let's get our minutes approved. 15 16 Williams: Yes. So do we have a motion to approve the minutes? 17 18 Chavez: So moved. 19 20 Dahlin: Yes, good. 21 22 Williams: All those in favor? 23 24 THE MOTION WAS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY. 25 26 Williams: The motion passes. Minutes are approved. 27 28 III. NEW BUSINESS 29 30 IV. DISCUSSION OF OTHER ITEMS 31 32 Williams: So next item on is new business. Tony. 33 34 Dahlin: I have a question concerning this park thing. 35 36 Gonzales: Yes. 37 38 Dahlin: How did that paper get published and why was there ... 39 40 Williams: We're not discussing that now. It's not on the agenda. 41 42 Dahlin: No I was just trailering on his. 43 44 Williams: Yes. No but that's not on the agenda that's why I stopped the discussion 45 before that's not on the Agenda. It was discussed last week. 46 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Dahlin: What is on the Agenda? Williams: What's on the agenda, on your book. Chavez: Yes. It's this little book here. 1. Promoting information throughout the neighborhood. Williams: So the first item on the agenda is the promoting information through the neighborhood I think. Faith you wanted to talk about that? Hutson: Well I think what it is is it's a continuation of the discussion because we did talk last month about what we could do with that money and how best to do it. Williams: Yes. Hutson: And you had said that you would put talking about a brochure on today's agenda. Williams: Yes. Hutson: What you had said in the minutes, that you would put that on. Williams: We did, yes. That's what that is. Gonzales: It's kind of the same thing. Hutson: Yes, so that's I think that's where we're at is, I think everybody mostly thought that that might be the next step and Sara had kindly sent us a template. Williams: Exactly. Hutson: Which is the published template, which is an easy brochure form to use that maybe we could actually put that together. Williams: So any other, I did. I agree, that was, I think the brochure is probably the best way to go because it's something that can be just handed out and that's it. Hutson: So maybe we want to talk today about people that we would give it to. I mean, I don't really know. I looked at that template, I wish that, I actually was hoping that maybe I would have had a chance to flesh it out just a little bit and bring to you guys but I didn't. I had ... 3 1 Williams: Yes, I looked at it ... 2 3 Hutson: One of those days. 4 5 Williams: Too but I didn't do anything else with it. 6 7 Hutson: Yes. 8 9 Chavez: If we do a brochure, some of the obvious places that you have that 10 brochure would be the Home Builders Association, here ... 11 12 Hutson: Real estate agents. 13 14 Chavez: In Permits so when somebody comes in and they get flagged and goes, 15 "Oh, you're in the Historic District, here's this in your hands immediately." 16 Real estate brokers that basically deal with the Mesquite area. There's 17 two or three. The other people usually don't come in the neighborhood but 18 there are quite a few that do deal just in the Mesquite area. 19 20 Hutson: Yes. 21 22 Chavez: That would be good to have also. 23 24 Hutson: It should go out to all of them. When I purchased my house I didn't 25 purchase it from a real estate agent here in the district. 26 27 Chavez: Okay, well then the real estate offices for the broker here, I mean not 28 broker ... 29 30 Hutson: Contractors. 31 32 Williams: (Inaudible) 33 34 Chavez: Association. They have an association. 35 36 Williams: Yes. 37 38 Dahlin: Who are we trying to reach? 39 40 Williams: Well we're trying to reach future homeowners in the area so it's like, so 41 that's why the real estate agents are the best partners. 42 43 Hutson: And contractors. 44 45 Williams: And contractors and ... 46 4 1 Hutson: Homeowners Association. 2 3 Williams: Anyone who might work in there. 4 5 Nichols: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I think that's a, that was a very good point 6 because I can share some information with you that just happened just 7 last week and specifically directly to the South Mesquite area. It is 8 important to know what the Board would like to see in terms of information 9 being distributed. Are you wanting information about "This is a great part 10 of the City, we have all these different attributes and we have this going 11 on," or is it you want to promote folks coming in to develop, put 12 businesses in, have new homes built, homes renovated? Depending on 13 what you want to do would be kind of how you would shape your 14 distribution of your information. 15 But what I was going to share with you, I won't give you his name 16 yet, soon as he comes and gets his permit then we'll bring him to you 17 because you'll be reviewing it. But he's a prominent builder in El Paso, a 18 very prominent residential builder, and light commercial. He has 19 purchased four lots in South Mesquite and he came, we talked to him, 20 myself and Ms. Sara, and we went through the whole situation with him 21 about the, your overlay and what is going to be required and what the 22 incentives might be there to encourage him to come do this. What he 23 wants to do is he wants to build what he calls "timeless homes," 24 "Timeless" meaning that you looked at it after it's finished, you looked at it 25 and you say, "You think that's 50 years old or do you think it was built ... 26 27 Chavez: Okay. 28 29 Nichols: Or do you think it was built yesterday?" In other words it will blend in and 30 he's very, he looks at it as, what was his words he used? "I think the 31 South Mesquite District has more development potential than any other 32 subdivision right now in the City." 33 34 Gonzales: For what he's trying to propose, yes. 35 36 Nichols: For what he's trying to propose. So if you're wondering, "Are people 37 noticing South Mesquite area, are people wanting to come in and do 38 something there?" The answer is "Yes." 39 40 Williams: And I guess my kind of comment too is, I don't know that we're trying, 1 41 think, I mean living in the neighborhood I do want development. I want 42 those empty lots to get built on or the empty houses to be developed and 43 more people to be there, more activity, more stuff happening. But I don't 44 know that that's our job to promote that so much. I think, my 45 understanding of this brochure is to get the information out to the people 46 who are coming into the area, not necessarily going out and trying to find 5 1 people to come into the area but so that, we got tired of people coming in 2 after the fact for approval of something they already started not knowing 3 they had to come before us before it. So the idea of this brochure was to 4 make sure that people are aware before they start something that they 5 need to get approval for it. 6 7 Hutson: I would like to add too that in addition to that because that has always 8 been our biggest problem, is also I think it's really important to get people 9 who live here already to understand what a unique area it is and what they 10 really have that they are property owners. Because the other big problem 11 that I think we have is people don't value where they live and their solution 12 is, "If I can't maintain and I can't fix it up I'm just going to demolish it." So 13 to me I see that as a bigger part of the problem because if people valued 14 really what they had and where they lived that would be half of our battle 15 already. We're still slowly seeing properties, just houses being torn down 16 or not fixed up until they finally and then, or fixed up incorrectly and now 17 they're noncontributing. 18 19 Williams: David. 20 21 Chavez: I think in the past and from experience there's a lot of people that when 22 they start working on restoring their houses so they're going to plaster and 23 all of a sudden they're, now there's a permit to replace a window and a 24 door but it's, a lot of times they were just lost. They didn't know where to 25 go for information or there wasn't a, for the City, website in the City says 26 "Historic Preservation for the Mesquite area," what the "dos" and "can'ts." 27 And I think that would be kind of a good thing to have sometimes, a 28 website that is kind of informative on the Historic District. I mean we have 29 three historic districts now. This one here's the one that's been 30 established the longest but Alameda and then Mesilla Park, so I mean it 31 would be kind of interesting to have a, on the City's website where 32 somebody who wants to restore something and there's a link, boom. You 33 can go there and it answers the question. It helps when they go to get a 34 permit and when they go and talk to you in your office they go, "Well we 35 understand this but we're still a little lost on that." So they're educated a 36 little bit, enough to have a decent conversation about restoring their home. 37 38 Gonzales: The hard part is getting the information out there to know that they have to 39 do it. The links are already there, it's all part of your Municipal Code, it 40 doesn't have to be (inaudible), it's on our website. 41 42 Chavez: That's already there, okay. 43 44 Gonzales: Part of the Code. South Mesquite, I even created its own link saying 45 "South Mesquite Overlay" so when you went under Codes and 46 Ordinances it popped out instead of them having to search for it. C. 1 2 Chavez: Okay. Great. 3 4 Gonzales: So I tried to give them some way to where, okay. But the hard part is 5 getting them to understand, "You're South Mesquite." This is what we're 6 trying to get out. "This is the neighborhood you're in so these are the 7 things you look for." A general builder's only looking at, "Okay, I'm 8 building a house, I'm doing windows, I can do everything that I do on a 9 regular one." 10 11 Chavez: Right. 12 13 Gonzales: They don't get stopped until they come in to see us. 14 15 Gonzales: And so it's getting the information out of the district I think and the 16 boundaries of this district and saying, "This is where you fit into this bubble 17 and these are the things you have to worry about." When we sent out the 18 notice we got several calls: "I can't paint my house, I can't do this, I can't." 19 No, these are the things we're saying we need you to come in and look for 20 and see. That way you know you need permits, you need review 21 standards, you have to do these things so that way, it was at least 22 something to trigger phone calls. People start understanding they're in an 23 area but there's still more that needs to be done. 24 25 Williams: Tony. 26 27 Dahlin: From my viewpoint what we hear are cases that they get busted and I was 28 thinking that they have plausible deniability because, "I didn't know." So 29 we've got to, I'm thinking we should get it to them in a way that they 30 cannot deny getting the notice that they need a permit and they need to 31 come before us to get a permit. Because everyone, just about every one 32 of them has been, they got caught doing it on the weekend or something 33 like that. 34 35 Gonzales: And that's throughout ... 36 37 Dahlin: Which is fair enough. 38 39 Gonzales: That's throughout the City though. It's not just in your District ... 40 41 Dahlin: No, no. That's what I'm saying. 42 43 Gonzales: Where they always say that. 44 45 Dahlin: I work throughout the City. I see it everywhere. But here is if it, maybe if 46 you put it in the tax bill then you know the property owner got it. 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Gonzales: We don't do the tax bills. Chavez: That's County. Gonzales: That comes from the County. Williams: Well, weigh in Mr. Campos. Campos: We'd have to contact the Assessor on that. If she's willing to ... Dahlin: Well what I mean is ... Campos: Put in an informative pamphlet. Dahlin: It's easy, see I, because I've, all mine's federal money so we don't deal with it ... Gonzales: Right. Dahlin: With us. But the thing is that I still do it according to our handout here. Well I use Santa Fe's actually. But the thing is when someone gets boxed in there and they got written up by Codes, "I didn't know." And the thing is, who cares if they get caught, who cares? "What do I care if I get caught doing without a permit?" Nothing. Maybe $35 1 think. Sara you would know what the fine is if I do it without a permit. Gonzales: It's just a double fee. Dahlin: Yes, it's chump change. Yes. Nichols: Soon to be triple fee. Dahlin: Yes, still chump change. Nichols: Making it will be more interesting. But to answer that question, the deniability, "I don't know." It's not particularly just to South Mesquite. We have this in new construction up on the East Mesa, it's everywhere. I've been an inspector and been in the regulation business for about 20 years now. I was on the other side for about 20 as well. But this is what I know about that. A person has to have a desire to want to know. Dahlin: They don't. Nichols: And most of the time they don't have that. 1 Dahlin: Right. They don't. 2 3 Nichols: They don't have that idea in mind. What they have in mind is, and you're 4 right. This happens after hours, it happens on weekends. I'm about to 5 change that. I'm going to start having a group of our Code and 6 Compliance Officers work weekends. 7 8 Dahlin: Yes once in a while will be fine. 9 10 Nichols: Yes and so that'll be a little different experience maybe. But, and this is 11 not to be punitive. This is just to have people understand that, "Yes we're 12 developing, we're doing, we're going to adhere to our rules, our 13 regulations, and our codes." 14 15 Dahlin: And according to the survey I read it when I got it, well, last night, that 16 about if I recall correctly about 40% of owners that live here and the rest 17 are transients, the rest is commercial. But the thing is if I'm sitting there 18 with a free and clear mortgage, I don't want to fix my house. There's 19 nothing to push me that direction. I mean unless you go and get, 20 (inaudible) they'll give you money, tax credits, up to I think like 30% or so 21 which could be a selling point. Because we've got to sell these, I think 22 we've got to sell these people on the fact that they need to do it for the 23 good of the community. And I don't see any pride over there, I see run- 24 down cars parked in the streets, cars with trees growing out of them and 25 junk everywhere. 26 27 Williams: I don't, again I don't think that's our responsibility to do. I don't think as a 28 Board, as the Southwest Mesquite Design Review Board it's our 29 responsibility to go out and promote remodels and, I mean we can help 30 when we can but I don't, it's not our job to go out there and try and get 31 people to do it. 32 33 Dahlin: To me it's more the knowledge. 34 35 Williams: I know but it's not our, that's not our responsibility. 36 37 Nichols: There is Mr. Chairman. There is one incentive that will bring what you're 38 asking for. And that is folks that currently live in the South Mesquite 39 District are learning very quickly that there are investors interested in that 40 area and that they can understand that, "If I make my property well- 41 maintained and kept up and appealing, I might be able to sell that 42 property." 43 44 Dahlin: But see, and as I was talking to somebody before that increasing the cost 45 of doing the work on the homes is not going to help us. We need to be 46 affordable, so to speak. Because to do, I think Faith and I worked on this 9 1 church down the street here and to do that lime plaster coating which is a 2 ridiculous idea brought on by PhD. You can do it that way, but why do 3 lime plaster when it costs three times as much money? And the thing is, 4 cement is the same. It's just that these people are thinking of cement in 5 20 and 30 years ago and they ... 6 7 Hutson: Right. 8 9 Dahlin: And then I hear the story about cement does not breathe. Well it does 10 awesome, it breathes and the other part of that was the chain link fence 11 being so cheap to put up. They look nice when they're up there but the 12 other stuff I see over there is horrific. And my friends and I polled the 13 whole neighborhood last weekend, about three hours and most of the 14 complaints are, "The neighbor's house looks like shit. Why is it, it doesn't 15 give me much motivation to fix my place up." And then if you see, if you 16 drive down the poorer section over there and look at the fences they have 17 which are not chain link by the way, if it needed a fence instead of a bunch 18 of tires stacked up in the front yard, that doesn't make sense to me. It 19 means that, it's got to be affordable to sell it at this level I think because 20 those homes are only worth $100,000 at the most maybe. 21 22 Williams: David. 23 24 Chavez: Okay, 90% of what you've said is wrong. I taught Historic Preservation at 25 DACC, I mean I was the, I taught it for a semester. Lime plaster used to 26 be used on all adobe buildings here prior to concrete invention. 27 28 Dahlin: Yes I know. 29 30 Chavez: The reason that lime plaster is used is because it breathes and it keeps 31 the adobe alive. 32 33 Williams: We're not ... 34 35 Chavez: We're not arguing about all that. 36 37 Williams: Arguing that. Right. 38 39 Chavez: But the thing is we have an economic situation in the City where 40 approximately, I think the last report I saw was something like 10,000, 41 12,000 really poor people in the City. Okay? The Mesquite Historic 42 District is over 60% rental. The people that rent in these houses barely 43 have enough money to pay for the rent and they don't have a stake in the 44 game. They're just paying their $200 or $300 a month on the slumlord's 45 property. And years ago when I was a kid, there was a lot of people still 46 owned their properties because my generation that moved away, well their 10 1 kids moved away and they don't want to move back into the neighborhood 2 but they still own the property so they rent it. So it's a double-edged 3 sword. I mean you can't really, you can't tell people what to do to their 4 properties. But my example, there was this plan that was passed in 2005. 5 6 Hutson: 2004. 7 8 Chavez: 2004, indicates what we should be trying to teach the neighborhood. 1 9 think we have an obligation to also teach the neighborhood so if there's a 10 question they can come to us. Two, three houses, I'm holding court in my 11 porch. They're asking questions because they're concerned I go, "Yes, 12 you can do this, no, you can't do that," and I said "No, you need to talk to 13 someone in the City and bring it up for a case." So I think it's, we need to 14 do outreach in a positive aspect of not being that, "That's not our job." But 15 we're stewards of this neighborhood. It is our job in so many words. So a 16 little, that's why I kind of brought this up for us to go over this document so 17 we get a little bit more understanding. There's another couple other 18 documents out there that we haven't even touched on. This was a 19 $50,000 1 think $55,000, $56,000 document. 20 21 Gonzales: That one, it was used in the Amendment of 2015. 22 23 Chavez: Yes. 24 25 Gonzales: Suzanna Montana used it as part ... 26 27 Chavez: Yes. 28 29 Gonzales: Of her documentation to create the amendments when we started to see 30 things weren't changing and things needed to be changed. So this was 31 one of her guidelines and one of her references when she was meeting 32 with people as to, "This is our plan, how do we use at least some of it?" 33 34 Chavez: She was good. 35 36 Gonzales: Because you can never get through the entire plan and use all of it, but 37 there are pieces in here that have been at least addressed and that's 38 where it's, if there's more in here in this plan, that's where we need to find 39 and then dig out what's there and then come to that compromise of how 40 do we get it either reapproved or something changed or amended within 41 the code we do have if this is something we're going to go back into. 42 43 Nichols: Mr. Chairman. 44 45 Williams: Yes. 46 11 1 Nichols: Could I ask the Board, can you give us some direction on this item that we 2 were talking about in terms of the information? I think I understand what 3 you're after. Instead of doing promotional and that work, we're saying 4 come up with information aids, some means of a brochure or hold a 5 couple of meetings for people in the neighborhood to come and attend 6 that we can say, "This is what is going to be expected when you remodel 7 or even maintain your property." And if you can tell us that then we can go 8 on to the next item which is the plan. 9 10 Williams: Yes. I think ... 11 12 Chavez: I mean, if I may real quick. I've received several of those door hangers 13 from a variety of organizations and that got my attention because I mean 14 okay obviously they put on the door hanger and it's there. So something 15 like maybe like that where to for a notification for meetings or something 16 for the neighborhood, there's a door hanger with enough information says, 17 "We're meeting at this time," or "Check these websites," yada yada. So if 18 you start getting the word out a little bit, I don't know how expensive those 19 are, but I'm just throwing that out. 20 21 Nichols: Yes, we just need to make it more simple in that. Not many people are 22 that anxious to read Code text. So we need to find better ways ... 23 24 Chavez: A better way to do it. 25 26 Nichols: To get that out there. 27 28 Campos: Mr. Chair. If I ma. Question to Mr. Nichols. In El Paso, in your 29 experience, I want to bring up Sunset Heights. 30 31 Nichols: Sunset Heights, with the, are you, what about? 32 33 Campos: The (inaudible). From your experience, has there been something in 34 comparison to what we're trying to request? That you can suggest to us to 35 where it's going to catch somebody's attention? Another thing, on item 36 number two, the Home Builders Association. All the contractors get 37 together. Maybe that'd be some information to feed to them in case 38 somebody wants to buy an old house and remodel, what it's going to cost 39 versus tearing it down and building a new one because everything's based 40 on how much. Just those two items for you to think about. Thank you. 41 42 Nichols: Alright. And Mr. Chairman, response to Mr. Campos. 43 44 Campos: Thank you Mr. Chair. 45 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 Nichols: I can name three areas in El Paso: The Chihuahita District, the Segundo Barrio, and then the Sunset Heights, and maybe even Manhattan Heights. All of those are older neighborhood districts that properties had gotten into various stages of needing repair, maintenance, whatever or new building or remodeling. What we did there in the Chihuahita especially was we held community meetings and we had boards, foam boards and posters that people could go around and look and then we went through and explained things that, instead of saying, "You have to adhere to the code," we said, "If you're going to replace your door or your window or you're going to reroof your property or you're going to re -stucco it, this is what your district requires," in very straightforward simple terms, even told them a little bit how to do it. Dahlin: What I ... Chavez: In both languages? Dahlin: When I was doing my survey is they were thinking of us as more adversarial right now. Nichols: I know that. Dahlin: And this is the people that are out there on Saturdays and Sundays. Nichols: I know that often the City is regarded in that way then because we are a regulatory agency in terms of enforcing the codes and the zoning regulations. But you know what, we're getting past that. I think we're getting past that. Williams: And I don't know, I mean it's, I don't know, I mean I don't know how you did your survey or anything and I'm not, I don't want to get into the discussion on it, anything because it's not really relevant to what we're discussing I don't think much. But I think anybody that's come to this meeting and especially are the ones that had come after having started things and getting stopped have found that we're not adversarial. I think we've always been ... Chavez: I think we've worked with them ... Nichols: Really forthcoming, working with people to get things done. We're not trying to make their lives difficult. All we're trying to do is make, help them help keep the neighborhood a nice neighborhood. So it's like that. Dahlin: That's what we should be selling. 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Nichols: Well and that's what and it's like so, but you're not, I mean the fact like you were saying, I mean anyone having to come to the City to deal with any of these are automatically assuming it's going to be in an adversarial sort of way. I mean they, it's just ... Dahlin: But the people here Williams: There are people who have experienced it. Dahlin: Are only 30 or 40 people. Williams: No but the, not everybody's like that and I would ... Dahlin: No, no. I mean that they come to these meetings. Nichols: Yes. Dahlin: The rest are ... Williams: Yes. Dahlin: (Inaudible). Williams: Well and that's the problem with doing community meetings. I mean we could do community meetings but we'll probably get ten or 15 people if we're lucky show up. Dahlin: Right. Williams: So we're not going to reach the, I don't think, I don't know how to change that. It's just the way life is. In my experience ... Nichols: My thoughts Mr. Chairman is the idea is that you're making yourself available. Williams: Yes. Nichols: And yes we can't compel people to attend. Williams: Yes and I'm not saying we don't want to do meetings. I think that meeting, doing stuff and doing it in the neighborhood it would be, is the best way to do it because that's going to if we can find a place there to do it. Chavez: I mean even doing something like a workshop. It doesn't have to be during the week. A weekend when everybody doesn't work, of course mostly the folks don't work, and have a workshop and have examples of 14 1 like your idea of having posters and not necessarily telling them, "No, no, 2 no," just, "This is the way it should be done" in a positive attitude. But 3 maybe a workshop. We've never tried before. We know our ordinance 4 pretty darn good, we've written most of it. So maybe a workshop would 5 help in a location that the neighbors and we, not invite all of them, do 6 segments of the district. Okay, we're going to do the very south part of the 7 Mesquite area and then just keep on moving until enough where it gets 8 out because you're not going to get everybody but if you focus on one 9 area they start thinking, it goes, "Well they're keeping an eye on our 10 district." At least somebody's keeping ... 11 12 Campos: Yes. 13 14 Chavez: And so we just move to the next one so we end up doing four or five or 15 six. I mean that's our job, I mean we're stewards here so I don't think it 16 would be a bad idea, just figuring out how and where. 17 18 Campos: True. Work on that David, (inaudible). Good idea. A lot of the guys that 19 approach me are retired contractors, they're retired engineers, professors, 20 and they took up a hobby and they're just more or less handymen. They 21 want to do simple jobs, they'll plaster outside of the house, they don't want 22 to tear the whole thing down, and maybe do a little indoor remodeling, you 23 know throw a wall down and expand a room. Those kind of people are the 24 handymen guys. 25 26 Chavez: Yes. 27 28 Campos: So they have to get, so the struggle is, "Oh my God, I've got to do all of 29 this just to remodel my house? Forget about it." That's something to think 30 about. The old handymen. 31 32 Hutson: Along those lines too, because I do think having read through a lot of this 33 document and some of it was really an eye-opener to me, some of it 1 34 never even considered. What about, because I'm still of the approach and 35 the opinion that people would do more if they knew what resources were 36 out there available to them. So some of it is educating them that needs to 37 be done but some of it is just like, "I have, I don't have those resources." 38 What if we were to do something small, start off small, right? Because 1 39 agree, we all have full-time jobs and we have to figure this out. But we 40 like say take a block, a square block, and ask people, "What do you need 41 in order to fix up your place? What is it that you really need? Do you 42 need access to materials? Do you need a handyman that could do some 43 of this stuff? Do you just need information on where to go?" and just 44 maybe sort of a survey, I don't know what you guys think about that but a 45 survey of what people's needs are. Like a needs assessment on what it 46 would need, what it would take. 15 1 2 Campos: That's a good idea. Mr. Chair. Thank you. 3 4 Williams: Yes. 5 6 Gonzales: I think you'll get more response by doing the survey of the neighborhood 7 because now you're going to them as opposed to them having to go 8 somewhere. 9 10 Chavez: And also we may discover that there are some seniors out there that fit 11 under the rehab program the City has and so a lot of times they're either 12 very old or they may be ill or in a lot of Hispanic culture, they might be 13 embarrassed to ask for help. But if you go to them in the survey and go, 14 "Look, we see your windows need this and this and this" and we can ask 15 not exact questions but you could get enough information to say, "I believe 16 that you may qualify for this," and maybe when we do the survey perhaps 17 have some of that documentation with us and say, "I think you might 18 qualify," and then, "Here's this." So it catches a few of some really elderly 19 folks that we really want them to keep staying in their homes instead of 20 having to be eventually put into a nursing home. 21 22 Dahlin: Are you suggesting we do that again? 23 24 Chavez: Do what again? 25 26 Dahlin: This survey that this architect did. She ... 27 28 Chavez: (Inaudible) 29 30 Huston: Tony. This is a survey to determine if the buildings were contributing or 31 noncontributing. 32 33 Dahlin: That's what she did here. 34 35 Hutson: Right. Right. What we're suggesting is that we actually talk to people who 36 live there and ask them what they would need to fix up their places. That's 37 different. We're not surveying to see if it still meets the qualification. Now 38 having said that, that doesn't mean that because for instance there is not 39 just City but there's that Community Development Block Grant. Right? So 40 maybe what we do is we tell them, "Look, there is money out there and 41 you just have to apply. And as long as your income falls below a certain 42 range you could qualify for that." That we can help them apply for that, 43 that they could do it. Or we tell them, they want new windows. Okay, well 44 what could we do about that? Could we rehab the windows that they have 45 so that it doesn't lose its contributing status because they're just like, "Well 46 1 just, I need windows," and so they spent money on windows, don't know ET 1 they have to have a permit, and now the structure's no longer contributing. 2 So there's that aspect of it as well. 3 4 Williams: I think the, going in the back of the brochure thing, the brochure thing if 5 there's, it'd be nice to list some possible, like the Community Fund Grant. 6 7 Hutson: Right. 8 9 Williams: To list possible funding sources for people where they, so that they're 10 aware that they're out there. But we're not going to necessarily know all of 11 the ones that are available. 12 13 Hutson: Right. 14 15 Williams: And I don't know how we go that and how you get around it so but ... 16 17 Nichols: Mr. Chairman. And we have that. We have a separate division in my 18 department that they work with that every single day. And they have folks 19 that come in and apply for those funds and then I can give you a pretty 20 long list of where they've been awarded monies to help with those repairs. 21 But that's an excellent idea and I'm thinking that we probably need to look 22 at another idea is that we heard you just mention, well they went ahead 23 and did this without a permit and so now that's going to be a penalty. Well 24 maybe what we need to do and we talk about other incentives, is we find 25 ways of having a permit, a no -fee permit for certain types of work. We 26 also find certain types of work that can be done without a license that's 27 required if you don't know. And there are several things that can be done. 28 For example, some repair, I think the figure's like $600. If it's $600 or 29 about $1,000 it doesn't require, a handyman who can do that. You don't 30 have to get a permit, I mean and you don't have to get a licensed 31 contractor to do that. So we need to maybe get some of those things 32 explained which would encourage people to go ahead and go through with 33 their repairs or their remodelings. We do have the State Statute 34 requirement that if you're going to do electrical work or mechanical work, 35 or plumbing. 36 37 Hutson: Right. 38 39 Nichols: You have to use a licensed individual. But there are some items that don't 40 require a permit and we have a whole list of them. We should explain 41 that. Maybe people don't realize that ... 42 43 Williams: Yes. 44 45 Nichols: If they need to replace their outlets or their switches alone, they don't have 46 to get a permit for that. `VA 1 2 Campos: That's a good point. If I may Chair, in our department if it was less than 3 200 square feet you don't need a permit for a little storage shed. 4 5 Nichols: That's correct. 6 7 Campos: And you get grandpa to do it and kids grab a hammer and start swinging. 8 9 Williams: 120. 10 11 Campos: On the nails, yes. Something to think about. Appreciate that. Thank you. 12 13 Nichols: So I think that's the kind of information that we can do a better job and 14 getting that out. So we'll take this, what you've talked to us about, and 15 we'll come up with something and bring it back to you to see ... 16 17 Chavez: Okay. 18 19 Nichols: If you think this would be a positive step forward and if you say "yes" then 20 we'll start putting it together. 21 22 Williams: Sounds good. 23 24 Chavez: I believe that we're part of an educational component and I think if we, if 25 there's any possibility that we can educate the District in the possibilities of 26 restoring their homes where it's not such a deterrent or they're going to go, 27 "Well, you know what, I can't afford it and the house keeps getting worse," 28 and they could qualify for a variety of things but they just don't know. And 29 1 believe, honestly I think it is our responsibility. We hear the cases. 1 30 think we need to step up to the plate and do just a little bit more to, for 31 outreach for the neighborhood if we want, if we're complaining about the 32 way the houses look and stuff, it's because they don't know. And the 33 other side of the coin, we need to do a little bit of outreach to some of 34 these landlords that own some of these properties to kind of educate them 35 to, "Look, you have a responsibility here." I don't know what the City does 36 as far as checking to see if those houses or apartments are safe in the 37 first place but there's some scary places in the district which is sad. 38 39 Nichols: There are State Statutes about tenant -landlord ... 40 41 Chavez: Conditions. 42 43 Nichols: Yes. Yes, and we need to, I think there needs to be more enforcement on 44 that. The City is also under it right now, went under two Ordinance 45 Reviews, a Housing Ordinance review and a Nuisance Ordinance review. Ef 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 We did not adopt the Property Maintenance Code as part of our family of codes. Dahlin: Why not? Nichols: That was a decision by I guess the Third Floor. I call it the Third Floor, the Chavez: Administration. Nichols: Every other jurisdiction that I (inaudible) in the building (inaudible), we've adopted the family of codes, the Commercial Code, the Residential Code, the Electrical, Mechanical, and Plumbing, and Property Maintenance Code. It's a very simple code, it's only 22 pages or 24. But it has in that section, it talks about landlord and tenant, not only rights but responsibilities. It talks about, "Yes you've got to maintain a certain level of heating in the winter and you need to maintain a certain level of ventilation, sanitary premises," all of that is in there but we're going to think, we're going to do it through a Housing Ordinance. Dahlin: Well what I was thinking is like when you talk about the there's only 40% renters there, those 40% are not going start complaining because the rent's going to go up. That's just the way it works if, say your landowner has to fix the place they increase the rent and now where I come from they initiated rent controls so that you would be on a family plan and then the rent controls, the renters will fix it. They'll insist it gets fixed instead of having doors hanging off and cars in the front yard and stuff. I but, according, we don't deal with that, do we? Like abandoned vehicles and Chavez: No that's Codes. Hutson: No. Williams: No. Gonzales: That's Codes. Codes will go out there and tell you if your vehicle has been there too long ... Dahlin: Yes. Gonzales: And it's not running and it has ... Dahlin: Okay. Gonzales: To be removed and stuff. 19 1 2 Nichols: This board does not deal with that. 3 4 Gonzales: That's Codes. 5 6 Dahlin: Well I mean it's, kind of to me it's all tied together in extreme situations 7 because when I was out there the people I saw, I was actually looking at 8 chain link fence versus other, the "other" is a bad choice. And talking with 9 the people there, they were kind of sketchy about this. I go, "Do you know 10 that," he goes, "Why are you here?" And I said, "I just want to see what 11 your feelings are on fences and on fixing this area up." "What's wrong 12 with it?" To me it looks horrible over there in some places. It hurts my 13 eyes but I don't know how we're going to try to get everybody in with that 14 income bracket that's ... 15 16 Nichols: That's one of the most, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Dahlin. That's one of the 17 most thankless parts of my job is to go out and inspect the premises and 18 find several (inaudible) that are either unsafe, possibly even unsanitary 19 and I have to list these deficiencies and tell them, tell the landlord, "Fix it 20 or we're going to post an 'Unsafe Structure Do Not Occupy."' And he tells 21 me, and this happened to me about two years ago. The landlord said, "I'll 22 gladly fix it. I've been wanting to fix it. I'll fix it but the rent's going to go 23 from $350 a month to $500." And I have every single tenant come and tell 24 me, "Do not make him do that, do not make him do that." I said, "It's come 25 to my attention. I can't ignore it, I have to do something about it." So we 26 compelled him to do it and one of, what was his next action? 27 28 Dahlin: He rent raised? 29 30 Nichols: No, he ... 31 32 Dahlin: Burned it down. 33 34 Nichols: No, he said, he gave everyone a 30-day notice to move out and he's going 35 to demolish the building because it was going to cost him more in repair 36 fees than he could recoup in rent. And so he did. And we had to, and 37 then we went to find housing, relocation for about 14 different residents 38 through the Housing Authority. But that's the thankless part of my job. 39 They push us into that ... 40 41 Chavez: Corner. 42 43 Nichols: That corner. But thankfully those folks did find a better place to live that 44 required subsidizing, rent payments are required, the Housing Authority 45 helping them with a means of getting into those properties. 46 20 1 Dahlin: Can the Housing Authority help us over there? 2 3 Nichols: Well the Housing Authority, I meet with them every month. Tierra del Sol 4 and the Mesilla Valley has a Public Housing Authority. They have been 5 helping, they have a list of folks that want help, but yes. I tell you what 6 we're about to do, we're about to put in an affordable housing project in a 7 site over here's a four -and -a -half -acre site near Sierra middle school and 8 we're wanting to develop that into an affordable housing district, try to get 9 as many as 35 to 40 units in there of mixed use: Some single-family, 10 some apartment, some condominium. 11 12 Williams: Okay. Yes. 13 14 Hutson: Mr. Chair. I have another question for you Mr. Nichols. When I was 15 reading this document, on page 58 it talks about New Mexico Historic 16 Preservation Alliance Model Code for Historic Adobe Buildings and it says 17 it's a, proposed amendment to the New Mexico State Building Code is 18 currently under consideration. Can you tell me what's ever happened with 19 that? Because when I Googled it I could not get anything to come up. 20 21 Nichols: What year was this document? 22 23 Hutson: '04. 24 25 Gonzales: It's '04. 26 27 Nichols: I think it's been exercised, I think they've gone through, we update the 28 codes every three years. Well we often skip a cycle so that means every 29 six years. We're currently on the 2015 New Mexico Building Code. 30 31 Hutson: Okay so we have a clause in there or a section in there about historic 32 adobe buildings? Because what I was reading in this or what I was led to 33 understand was that given the fact that they are different construction 34 materials, they may not be able to handle like beam reinforcement or 35 something like that and so there are cases where they have to be looked 36 at differently and not just a standard code applied. Is that the case? 37 38 Nichols: I'm going to have to go back and revisit that for you. 39 40 Hutson: Okay. 41 42 Nichols: But I'm almost certain it's, and the reason I say I'm almost certain is I was 43 a builder for about 24 years in this area and I can remember reading the 44 Building Code which required me to say, required me to do the foundation 45 and the first six inches had to be concrete and then from there you went 46 up to, you built your wall. Then there had to be a concrete bond beam on 21 1 top of the wall so that would support the structural beams and that sort of 2 thing. I know that was in code. I think it's been enhanced from there so 3 I'm saying yes. I'm saying yes there is a code for adobe construction. 4 5 Dahlin: There are several. 6 7 Williams: I think there's a code that deals with any kind of earthen, there's a special 8 code that ... 9 10 Nichols: Ram, rammed earth ... 11 12 Chavez: Rammed earth and adobe. 13 14 Williams: Or any kind of, that would be dealt with. 15 16 Hutson: Would it be different for historic buildings versus new? That's my question 17 because ... 18 19 Williams: I don't think the code would designate between historic or new. They're 20 going to pretty much have the same requirement, although there'd be 21 grandfather clauses in there for if you have an existing building and stuff 22 but if it's structurally failing it's going to, something's going to have to be 23 done to ... 24 25 Gonzales: Make sure it stands. 26 27 Williams: Bring it back up to standards with, and it may entail some sort of change 28 to it. 29 30 Chavez: A lot of times it's called a collar and they put it around adobe structures 31 that are starting to look weak at the base. The other walls might be still 32 stable but they put a concrete collar and it's not always the best thing to do 33 but if they want to save the building and in many cases there isn't a lot of 34 choices. If they start digging out below the wall, chances are in many 35 cases on a historic district the adobe was built right on the dirt and there 36 wasn't even rock or gravel or anything so it's kind of sometimes a Catch- 37 22. 1 mean if you really want to save a building, concrete is not the 38 premier choice but for stability of a structure, especially in the footing area, 39 you've got to do it. 40 41 Williams: Well they do make a stabilized adobe that ... 42 43 Chavez: Yes they do that ... 44 45 Hutson: Well so at that part of why I want to know is, is that information out there 46 for people? So like for instance contractors. Is that something that they 22 1 would really know that we have? If we truly have this amendment to the 2 Code that deals with historic preservation, is that something that is out 3 there for, because like I said I couldn't find it anywhere. Which doesn't 4 mean anything. 5 6 Nichols: I'll look. 7 8 Hutson: It just means I couldn't find it. 9 10 Nichols: I'll look this up where, you know a local builder named Wayne or Bobby 11 Suggs? 12 13 Hutson: Yes. 14 15 Nichols: He does a lot of the ... 16 17 Hutson: Yes I do know him. 18 19 Nichols: Adobe. Yes. I'll have to show you the ... 20 21 Campos: That'd be kind of ... 22 23 Nichols: Sitting on my desk some time. I gave him his first job. He apprenticed 24 with me for about two years and then he, I notice that he's doing a lot of 25 adobe structures. I'll talk to him about it but I'll also look it up ... 26 27 Hutson: Okay. 28 29 Nichols: For you and I'll bring that information back. I'm certain there is an adobe 30 construction. 31 32 Gonzales: They did the 2015 Code so hopefully they amended it from there. 33 34 Hutson: All right. 35 36 Williams: Any other discussion? 37 38 Dahlin: Yes. We ought to look up on concrete because concrete breathes and 39 these PhDs don't know the small pieces they should take an engineering 40 class because every concrete breathes. Today would be, even with the 41 latex add mixes, they breathe better and the problem with adobe is the 42 percolation and the weeping of water. On the canales they drop the water 43 about three feet from the building and it splashes back onto the wall. 44 That's ridiculous. And the other thing is they don't slope it away from the 45 footings. That's again ridiculous and the thing is, like people hear things 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 and they start to believe them about. Hutson: Wasn't me. Chavez: It was me. Like that collars that you were talking Dahlin: The only one I've ever seen was on the corner right across the street from Laurie. Remember that white building? They had the, it's the only one I've ever seen here with a concrete collar across the top to hold the walls in. Chavez: You mean the top or the base? Dahlin: The top. Chavez: No, I'm talking about the ... Williams: He's talking about the base. Dahlin: The collar that collects water? Williams: Again ... Chavez: The collar on the ... Dahlin: What you got to do is you got to keep water from getting behind that stuff. Williams: We're not discussing proper construction right now. So anything else? Hutson: Well I kind of like to know what we go from here. Are we going to go through this page by page, what we're ... Williams: Well and I'm, and ... Hutson: And what are people's thoughts and intents on this document Williams: David was the one that brought it up and ... Chavez: I brought it up. I thought maybe, not that we all love meeting all the time but this is a document that I think we should review not all at one time. I think if we do maybe a few pages or a section or something and get an understanding. Williams: But review for why? 24 1 Chavez: For us. When we get cases, because there are some things in here that 2 like Faith says it is eye-opening and we could do our job maybe a little bit 3 better. I think sometimes it ... 4 5 Williams: Well there was some discussion last year about doing, was it like, didn't 6 we talk about doing like a seminar kind of a thing, doing like a full -day kind 7 of thing, I don't know if it was a full day but ... 8 9 Chavez: I remember something. 10 11 Williams: There was some discussion, I remember we talked about it ... 12 13 Chavez: Yes. 14 15 Williams: At one point about doing some sort of a training kind of seminar for the 16 Board. And that could be part of that, I don't want to discuss this at every 17 meeting personally. It's like I mean the end of the unit sections. It's like, 1 18 mean I think everybody should review it and look at it and understand it. If 19 we want to do some sort of a seminar or something outside of a regular 20 meeting or even another meeting time when we don't have a case and do 21 more of a discussion on it but with more specific questions or direction of 22 how to do it. I mean I don't want just to be handed out and then just 23 everyone to come and say, "Okay, just kind of," I think that the discussion 24 needs to be directed better. 25 26 Nichols: Mr. Chairman. I would be glad to organize something like that, how about 27 something like I'll arrange for a lunch, the Board to come at maybe 11:00 28 and we can have an informational training and/or discussion seminar from 29 11:00 till 2:00 with lunch there. It'd be kind of a working, would that be 30 something that you ... 31 32 Chavez: I'm retired. Doesn't bother me. These guys work. She's ... 33 34 Hutson: That would be difficult for me to do Mr. Nichols. I teach full-time. 35 36 Nichols: Then we could do it in the evening. 37 38 Williams: Yes, I mean an evening. 39 40 Nichols: And I'll bring the sodas and water instead. 41 42 Gonzales: And then I think if before the meeting you could find things that are 43 specific where you maybe want the guidance by staff, just provide me a 44 section or the section, the title, or something that you're looking at if you 45 are looking for answers. Maybe it's something I can research and then 25 1 have those answers for you to where we don't have to come back to 2 another meeting. 3 4 Williams: Yes. 5 6 Gonzales: So if there're specific things in there that you want to see or have 7 answered or just clarification, send them to me. I'm more than willing, we 8 can talk about them at the next meeting or I'll respond to everybody as a 9 group if somebody just wants clarification. I don't mind doing that as well. 10 Or we ... 11 12 Chavez: And then you also made a list of the things that you're going to check on 13 anyway for us. Right? So that would be great information that we would 14 love to hear back from you all. 15 16 Gonzales: Okay. 17 18 Nichols: Okay. 19 20 Gonzales: So from my understanding here are you guys going to be working on 21 pamphlets? 22 23 Hutson: Yes. 24 25 Gonzales: That would be the part that you're working on. 26 27 Hutson: Yes. 28 29 Gonzales: What I can do is get you at least contact information for home rehab, any 30 of the grant programs that are available through our department or maybe 31 another department because that may be something you can put on those 32 flyers in the back. Other information that I receive that would have to 33 come from staff would be just these, I'm just getting clarification to make 34 sure I have my list correct. Working on permit fees or things that are 35 going to be required because those are probably going to be, of course 36 have to change somewhere in our code or in our ordinance at a later date 37 so we can always keep you updated on that. And then possible work 38 sessions and ... 39 40 Nichols: For the community, that one. 41 42 Gonzales: Right. 43 44 Chavez: Yes, the community. 45 46 Williams: Yes. Yes. 441 1 2 Gonzales: As far as the pamphlets, if it's something that you guys want us to take or 3 provide at HBA, we do meet with them, the President that does come in. 4 You can always give him the pamphlets to take to those meetings. There 5 are realtors that do attend them, there are architects that attend them. So 6 there's more than just home builders that are at those meetings. 7 8 Chavez: Right. 9 10 Gonzales: And then if you ever get them printed out we'll put them at our front 11 counter, hand them out as we're doing things. If you send me a template, 12 if I meet with people or if I talk to people I can also .pdf copies to them as 13 well. They can also provide them, maybe print them out and give them to 14 other customers as well or people living in the neighborhood. 15 16 Williams: Look and I ... 17 18 Gonzales: So we can get it out. 19 20 Williams: And I would suggest that if we're doing, we do the neighborhood meetings 21 that we're talking about we do it after we've done the pamphlet because 22 we focus it on the pamphlet. So we may have had, we get the pamphlet 23 out with those resources available and then go out into the neighborhoods 24 where like you said and present the pamphlets and talk about, and we can 25 even have boards that may be more detailed than the pamphlet can for 26 those meetings and things like that. And I think the pamphlet would be 27 good places at La Nueva Casita and ... 28 29 Chavez: Nopalito's. 30 31 Williams: As he said Nopalitito's and the focal ... 32 33 Chavez: Next. 34 35 Williams: Businesses that are there because those, the people in the neighborhood 36 are going to be frequenting those places and stuff and that, those are the 37 people we want to get this information out to especially the ones that may 38 not have funding to do remodels or they find out there is a resource that 39 they can go to for help. 40 41 Hutson: Mr. Chair. I have a question for staff too. Where are we with the 42 consideration of a new survey for the Historic District? Is that anything 43 that's been under discussion in the City? 44 45 Nichols: No. 46 27 1 Gonzales: No. 2 3 Nichols: But if you think that's time for it I guess we can get busy. 4 5 Hutson: Okay. 6 7 Chavez: The conversation has come up with the ad hoc committee for the historic 8 preservation in that when and if we would get a historic preservationist on 9 board. There's some talk in the ad hoc committee. Hopefully if everything 10 works good that we have a vote by maybe January or the first part of 11 February, that there might be some capital outlay funding for surveys from 12 SHPO and some other place because they will be funded or just apply, a 13 proposal to one of the State Representatives and Senator and State 14 Representative and sit down with City staff here to see if that would be 15 something that we could ask for funding, specifically for surveying the 16 City's historic assets and so that would cover the whole thing. But it would 17 be either I don't know if this body but, or the ad hoc committee would do a 18 proposal to Council, I mean to say Senator Jeff Steinborn and asking for a 19 specific dollar amount, I'm just throwing $50,000 or something to start on 20 surveys because there hasn't been one here since this one ... 21 22 Hutson: '05, '04. 23 24 Chavez: And even that one was kind of shaky. 25 26 Gonzales: When are they normally done? I'm unfamiliar with that and so I'm like, "Is 27 there normally like a time frame or a process when it should be done?" 28 29 Chavez: There hasn't been, this should be done because of a, from the State to 30 see if those structures are still contributing for their historic registered 31 documents so they do it that way. But usually it's like every ten years or 32 so. 33 34 Hutson: That's what I thought. 35 36 Gonzales: Okay so, okay. 37 38 Chavez: So, but we're way past the ten-year mark and we did have some people 39 from SHPO from Santa Fe and they basically said the same thing, says, 40 "You all are needing to do a survey." When and if the, no, when the 41 Historic Preservation Ordinance passes we will need the service even for 42 existing neighborhoods because they've changed in ten years. 43 44 Gonzales: Okay. 45 46 Dahlin: Sara, Tony for Sara. Do you have any idea what this cost? W. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Gonzales: I do not. Unfortunately I do not know ... Chavez: What do you mean? Gonzales: What the cost was for the ... Dahlin: The survey. Williams: The survey. Chavez: It was $50,000 in 2005. Dahlin: That was $50,000? Chavez: Yes. Dahlin: That's a lot of money. Nichols: I'm sorry, I didn't hear the figure. Chavez: It was 50 ... Hutson: $50,000. Chavez: $50,000 but it came out of capital outlay funding. That was the year that we had finished the Jardin de Mesquite and this was part of the deal that we had to get this done and it was done through Steve Newby and Associates. Hutson: No, this is Weisinger. Chavez: Well it's Steve Newby who put it together. Hutson: Yes. Chavez: This Weisinger was a professor at New Mexico State University and she got paid $18,000 to do the survey. Nichols: Mr. Chairman. I might answer Mr. Chavez' question about the Historical Preservation Ad Hoc Committee. That committee has been reassigned back to Community Development. Andy will be spending his time at the airport now. But I have coordinated with David Weir and Katherine Rogers. They'll be helping to support that committee along with myself. Chavez: Okay. Well we have our meeting next Monday. 29 1 2 Nichols: Yes sir. I already have the agenda so ready to go. So this and you 3 mentioned when and if we ever get our Preservation ... 4 5 Chavez: We will. I know we will. 6 7 Nichols: Sir I know about it, for certain I can tell you, you can X-out the "if' part. 8 9 Chavez: Okay. 10 11 Williams: Okay. 12 13 Nichols: And that ... 14 15 Chavez: Because El Paso has one, correct? 16 17 Nichols: That, yes sir. In fact I had a lady work for me when I had that department 18 she was under my department. Sorry Mr. Chairman that was not on the 19 agenda. 20 21 Williams: No that's fine so that's good because I think that person would probably 22 help our Board a lot too. 23 24 Chavez: Yes. 25 26 Williams: Yes. Any other discussion? 27 28 Hutson: Just maybe what we would like to talk about next month. So if we've got a 29 case, great, but if we don't I think we should still have a standing meeting. 30 31 Dahlin: Could we have specifics for that meeting? 32 33 Hutson: Yes. 34 35 Dahlin: Because this kind of was all over the place. 36 37 Williams: That's what I, well that's what we're saying right now. I guess if we're 38 going to have, what do you want to do? If you want to ... 39 40 Chavez: Well... 41 42 Hutson: The brochure? 43 44 Chavez: The report. 45 46 Hutson: The brochure. 30 1 2 Williams: The report, okay. 3 4 Chavez: Their report of everything you're going to find for us. So that would be the 5 next meeting you could get us that information. 6 7 Nichols: Yes. 8 9 Chavez: And then the discussion or work on the brochure. Two items. 10 11 Williams: Okay. 12 13 Gonzales: Yes. Because right now we don't have any cases. 14 15 Williams: Okay. So brochure and update on the information from this meeting. 16 17 Dahlin: By the way guys if you go to the feds they got a wonderful bunch of 18 historical suggestions and instructions by the way. 19 20 Williams: Is that at ... 21 22 Dahlin: Under Park Service. Under Department of Interior. They have hundreds 23 of these things to help out with the dissemination of information as far as 24 the objectives and the negative feedback you're going to get. They've 25 done this for years. But anyway believe I found that by "Oops." I just 26 found that with too much research at night. 27 28 2. Approved South Mesquite Plan. 29 30 Williams: Okay. Anything else? 31 32 V. STAFF ANNOUNCEMENTS 33 34 Nichols: Nothing from staff Mr. Chair. 35 36 Hutson: Nothing from me Mr. Chairman. 37 38 Dahlin: No, Mr. Chairman. 39 40 VI. ADJOURNMENT (7:01) 41 42 Williams: With that we'll adjourn the meeting. Thank you guys. 43 ,-- 44 45�` �---� 46 Chairperson 31