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11-17-1998A Board Members Present: Board Member Absent: Others Present: ADA Advisory Board Meeting Minutes November 17, 1998 Bob Evans, Andrea Peters, Ramon Armendariz, Cesar Rodriguez, and Kathe Stark Larry Sharp, Yolanda Thompson, and Tomas Mendez Hadir Bargi - Rangin and Minerva Garcia Introductions Ramon Armendariz called the meeting to order at 4:10 p.m. Approval of Minutes Andrea made a motion that the October minutes be accepted without modification. Seconded by Bob. No further discussion heard, minutes approved unanimously. New Business Ramon called for any new business. None heard. Agenda Kathe read the agenda for the benefit for Hadir. Monthly and Quarterly Report Kathe provided a copy of the ADA Monthly and Quarterly Performance Report. The Quarterly Report summarizes the current fiscal year goals and progress made to -date. Bob asked if the quarter starts January 1St. Kathe reported the City operates on a fiscal year and the first quarter begins July 1St. Kathe reported there has been little interest among local businesses or organizations to coordinate on providing ADA outreach training as planned. The initial plan was to bring in national experts on accessibility and provide training for architects, engineers and contractors. This presents a problem, because the New Mexico Building Code incorporates ANSI and UBC; the State did not adopt ADAAG, which the national experts can speak on. Bob stated that unless there is a requirement or ordinance that architects and contractors attend training to do business in the City, they are not likely to attend. Kathe explained that architects and contractors do receive training from their professional organizations and know their responsibilities under both state and federal law. Currently, City staff members of the ICBO (International Conference of Building Officials) is trying to get the State Construction Industries Division and Governor's Committee to come down and provide accessibility training for building officials in u v January. Both state agencies have worked extensively in the last 1 -2 years with the current code revisions and are the most up -to -date on the changes. Ramon stated he didn't understand what the state means when it says ANSI or Uniform Building Code. Ramon continued that there is a provision in ADA that if a state law exceeds or is stricter then the federal law, the stricter law will prevail. Ramon asked why contractors have problems with ADA? Kathe responded by explaining the State adopted codes other than ADAAG. Architects and contractors must adhere to both state and federal codes and the law of greatest protection for accessibility needs to be followed. First the law of greatest protection must be determined by comparing the applicable building codes and making that determination. This is a very cumbersome and often confusing process. Kathe reported she spend 4 -5 months developing a comparison matrix to determine which code must be followed for each item, upon coming to New Mexico. With the recent changes in the Uniform Building Codes, ANSI and New Mexico Building Code, this comparison must be done again. The recent code changes largely mirror ADAAG, which will make compliance easier for everyone involved in construction. Ramon stated an architect or the contractor should seek advice when in doubt from the ADA Coordinator. Kathe responded that the ADA Coordinator is responsible for the compliance efforts of City government. While she makes every effort to provide technical assistance to private industry when asked, her role does not extend to the entire private industry area. Kathe provides training and technical assistance to the building inspectors employed by the City who, in turn, work with local architects and contractors. Andrea asked why the State or City doesn't control ADA compliance. Kathe explained that ADA is a federal law with federal enforcement. The City can only enforce the building codes adopted by the State. The State of New Mexico has submitted their building code to the federal government to have it certified. If the code is certified by the federal government, it meets or exceeds federal requirements. Goal 5 to remove $200,000 in structural barriers will be less because the budget allocation for facility barriers was $75,000. Performance goals are established prior to final approval of the budget. Kathe pointed out that the Performance Report gives the Board a clear idea of what the office has been working on. Last month the Board expressed an interest in having the office review every set of plans for curb ramps. In order for this to occur, current activities would have to be reassigned or prioritized. Cesar asked if there was anything the Board could do to insure other departments pick up on responsibilities typically assigned to them, such as job descriptions. Kathe responded that at some point the Board may want to be involved in defining the position of the ADA Coordinator. Ramon stated he felt the ADA Coordinator has enough to do without writing job descriptions. Kathe reported that having strong job descriptions is essential to determining reasonable accommodations if an applicant or employee has a disability. Typically the G+ J January. Both state agencies have worked extensively in the last 1 -2 years with the current code revisions and are the most up -to -date on the changes. Ramon stated he didn't understand what the state means when it says ANSI or Uniform Building Code. Ramon continued that there is a provision in ADA that if a state law exceeds or is stricter then the federal law, the stricter law will prevail. Ramon asked why contractors have problems with ADA? Kathe responded by explaining the State adopted codes other than ADAAG. Architects and contractors must adhere to both state and federal codes and the law of greatest protection for accessibility needs to be followed. First the law of greatest protection must be determined by comparing the applicable building codes and making that determination. This is a very cumbersome and often confusing process. Kathe reported she spend 4 -5 months developing a comparison matrix to determine which code must be followed for each item, upon coming to New Mexico. With the recent changes in the Uniform Building Codes, ANSI and New Mexico Building Code, this comparison must be done again. The recent code changes largely mirror ADAAG, which will make compliance easier for everyone involved in construction. Ramon stated an architect or the contractor should seek advice when in doubt from the ADA Coordinator. Kathe responded that the ADA Coordinator is responsible for the compliance efforts of City government. While she makes every effort to provide technical assistance to private industry when asked, her role does not extend to the entire private industry area. Kathe provides training and technical assistance to the building inspectors employed by the City who, in turn, work with local architects and contractors. Andrea asked why the State or City doesn't control ADA compliance. Kathe explained that ADA is a federal law with federal enforcement. The City can only enforce the building codes adopted by the State. The State of New Mexico has submitted their building code to the federal government to have it certified. If the code is certified by the federal government, the code meets or exceeds federal requirements. Goal 5 to remove $200,000 in structural barriers will be less because the budget allocation for facility barriers was $75,000. Performance goals are established prior to final approval of the budget. Kathe pointed out that the Performance Report gives the Board a clear idea of what the office has been working on. Last month the Board expressed an interest in having the office review every set of plans for curb ramps. In order for this to occur, current activities would have to be reassigned or prioritized. Cesar asked if there was anything the Board could do to insure other departments pick up on responsibilities typically assigned to them, such as job descriptions. Kathe responded that at some point the Board may want to be involved in defining the position of the ADA Coordinator. Ramon stated he felt the ADA Coordinator has enough to do without writing job descriptions. Kathe reported that having strong job descriptions is essential to determining reasonable accommodations if an applicant or employee has a disability. Typically the Gi J ADA Coordinator would offer technical assistance to the Human Resource Department, which would write job descriptions working with the departments. One individual in Human Resources is now starting to assist with job descriptions. Cesar stated he thought it would be best to redefine Kathe's role and asked to be done sooner than later. Kathe stated it should be done before the end of the fiscal year, since the performance goals are already established for the current year. Cesar asked if the ADA Coordinator's job description could be established by using the one Kathe had in Minnesota. Kathe explained that few ADA Coordinator's have responsibilities for the entirety of ADA, from construction, sidewalks, employment, programs, etc. The Minnesota job description would not be very helpful. One objective currently, is to have Human Resources provide the major impetus for updating job descriptions with Kathe providing technical assistance as needed after this year. PSA on Trash Containers Kathe reported that efforts are well underway to produce a television PSA to educate the public to place trash containers in front or behind sidewalks. The Las Cruces Public Schools Studio has filmed and is editing a 30 second and 10 television second spot with the message "Takin' It To The Street Not The Sidewalk." The video illustrates the barriers trash containers pose to persons who use wheelchairs, those with visual impairments and children in strollers. In addition, Kathe will see if the Sun News would be interested in doing a story on this issue. Hang tags are being developed which can be placed on containers left on the sidewalk by City staff and community members. Bob reported Tresco has some people who could ride with the drivers and place the hang tags on containers for $.07 each. Trash Pick -Up Disable Services Kathe reported that the City's Solid Waste Department provides special trash pick -up services for persons with disabilities. The driver will bring the container to the street, empty it and return it to the house for those who are not able to do so. Recently the list of persons requesting special services has grown significantly and there may be people claiming to be disabled in order to get special trash pickup services. The Solid Waste Department has asked for advise or a recommendation from this advisory board on how they can determine who needs the special services and who they can take off the list. Cesar asked that how are they going to define who needs the services? Only visible disabilities? Kathe responded that considerations must be made for both visible and invisible disabilities and that is the assistance being sought from the board. Kathe stated she does not want to get medical certification. Cesar asked why. Kathe said that she does not want to be responsible for a private resident medical information. Andrea asked if we should find out how the other cities handle this type of situation or what kind of policies they might have, maybe Albuquerque or even El Paso. Andrea volunteered to make the calls to see what kinds of policies and procedures they have. Kathe asked if someone would be able to call the DBTAC. Every region has a DBTAC which provides free technical assistance on all ADA standards. 1- 800 - 949 -4232. Andrea volunteered to call the DBTAC. L J Bob asked how you identify those people who do need these services. Kathe suggested a recommendation to look at the household rather than the individual to determine eligibility. Andrea said that she would do a survey, call Albuquerque, El Paso, and Santa Fe. Hadir suggested a combination of the medical and justification of need that would allow people to get the special services. Bob said that there should be a solution for short-term special services instead of being on the list all the time. Kathe acknowledged that may be part of the difficulty. People who had temporary disabilities who were never taken off the list. Bob said Solid Waste should make an inquiry of people who have requested the service to determine if they still need the service and if they don't, remove them from the list. Kathe suggested the board re -visit this issue next month after Andrea has completed some. Status Report from Ramon and Larry_ Ramon said that he has not contacted Larry to work on getting a work session. Response to Question on Meeting Minutes Minerva reported that Board minutes go to the City Clerk's Office, and if the City Council requests to see the minutes they go to City Clerk's Office and obtain a copy. Kathe reported the Manager, City Clerk, and her Division Director get copies of the minutes. Kathe advised that when the Board meets with the Council they could ask how the Council wants to be apprised of their efforts and concerns and let the Council make that decision. Response to Question on ADA Compliance Responsibilities Last month the Board asked who has responsibility for ADA compliance. Kathe reviewed the list of departments and their responsibility. The following departments have some direct compliance responsibilities: 1. ADA Coordinator is oversees all compliance activities. 2. Human Resources is responsible for applicants and needs to be more responsible for employee's with or who develop disabilities, with the ADA Coordinator acting in a technical assistance role. 3. Legal Department is an internal services department which gets involved in ADA discussions, investigations, complaints and litigation. 4. Public Information Office does the newspaper ads, PSA's, and brochures. PIO is the final check point to make sure that the departments are following the communication policy. 5. EEO office is responsible for the complaints of an employee or an applicant. 6. The Architect is responsible for all major construction done on City property. 7. The Landscape Architect is responsible for Park design and construction with the Parks & Recreation Department. 8. Engineering Department is responsible for major roadway construction and sidewalk improvements. 9. The Planning Department does plan review for local contractors, business registrations, and building inspections. U J 10. Traffic Operations does relocates of traffic control devices, the smaller concrete projects, and stripes parking lots. 11. The Police Department - Codes Enforcement is responsible for enforcing the City zoning and /or municipal codes in the City. 12. Support Services is an internal services department that does minor repairs and building maintenance. 13. The Transit Department is responsible for compliance in transit. Kathe continued that every department is responsible for compliance however, most of the issues persons with disabilities have raised revolve around these departments in the City. Hadir asked who is responsible for mail boxes in the sidewalks? Kathe responded that the resident is responsible, Codes does enforcement and the Street Department has helped residents who are unable to do the work themselves. Hadir asked about electrical poles. Kathe responded that El Paso Electric is responsible in most situations. With the current litigation, El Paso Electric has not been cooperating with the City on such barriers. Other Issues Raised Ramon asked how many members could be seated in the ADA Advisory Board? Kathe said that they are 7 seats and currently 6 members. Bob said that Yolanda, Larry, Ramon, Andrea, Cesar, and himself. Kathe said that Tomas and herself are ex- officio members. They have one seat that is vacate and Patrick Maestas has turned in his appointment form and the Council has not yet acted on the potential appointment. Bob asked if that will fill the last spot. Kathe responded that it would. Relocation of Traffic Control Devices This follows -up on last months meeting. Kathe reported on the site visit she, the Mayor, Mike Johnson had with Hadir on Monday to explore the difficulties persons with visual impairments have at intersections. Kathe drew a diagram of an intersection and what occurs when traffic control devices are relocated to an area other than behind the curb cut. Kathe also explained the Uniform Traffic Code, which requires traffic signals to be over the lane of traffic. When a traffic control devices is relocated and a longer arm not purchased, the device with pedestrian crossing buttons may end up 10 to 12 feet away from the curb cut. The Board requested review of this issue this month to discuss writing a resolution that the Council adopt and direct the Traffic Operations and Engineering Department to follow. Part of that solution could be either buying the longer arm or moving the device and installing a pole with the button on it behind the curb ramp. Hadir stated the City needs to comprehend that the traffic lines need to be aligned differently, that is should be set in the international standards. He continued that they need to take a better approach with the audible like they do in. G.G J Kathe asked that with the audible pedestrian signals have been more widely accepted in Europe then in the United States. The new T -21 Transportation Bill include audibles in pedestrian crossings as one of the considerations that a municipality has to give to pedestrian crossings. Kathe said that the Access Board has been very reluctant to adopt a standard on audibles because the blind community could not reach consensus. Bob said that they had this discussion about four or five months. Kathe said there is a portion of the blind community for whom audible pedestrian signals are desired and provide additional information. Another portion of the blind community says they listen to traffic and that chirping interrrupts their ability to hear traffic and puts them at risk. The T -21 Bill will push the issue that audible signals be used more frequently on road like University that have 4 lanes and a great deal of traffic and may not have cross traffic. Bob said there is a need for national standards, like the European standards, that should be followed. Ramon said that the discussion that comes into play is most European states are midevil. Ramon continued that he did not want to be nationalistic but he thinks that they have to sit down with the guidelines and see what will work in this country. Alignment of audible crossing signals is critical and the alignment of the curb ramp is also critical, to give an indication of what direction that you need to travel. Bob said that in any guidance or direction you basically start off with a graph that is laid out. It may be desireable to look at an intersection that is other then a 90 degree intersection or when a street crosses another at 90 degrees. Bob stated it may be appropriate to have a graphic to show an example of an intersection that crosses something other than 90 degrees. Kathe said that they should start with the 90 degrees but then look at the other types of intersections. Bob said that it should have a red zone at all four corners where it is not accessible whatever is installed within that red zone and a green zone to see where it is accessible. Let the engineers add the words then to describe it. Kathe said that it is much harder to describe it in words then it is to show a picture of it. Bob said describe a point A, point B, point C, the problem that would be created if or if the solution that it be provided by are point A, point B, point C are mixed. Where X marks the spot for A, and then Bob asked if he was making his solution reasonable. Kathe said that if one traffic device, lets say that three of them are ok, but one has to relocated but through the act of relocating it we create this huge square that there needs to be a diagram to be moved this area. Kathe continued that if it has to go out beyond this area that means that there are three others that are going to be negatively. Kathe said that moving the traffic control devices is very expensive. One solution may be the installation of an additional post which holds the device, the audible as well as the pedestrian button. Kathe stated she can work with Hadir, if he is willing, and come up with some diagrams of intersections. Hadir said that he would very much like to assist and make intersection safer for persons who are blind. Hadir asked if it is possible to get diagrams of the University intersections. Kathe reported she could get diagrams off the GIS system and come back next meeting with diagrams of that. U J Agenda Setting Andrea will report on her findings on trash collection special services. Revisit the issue of relocation of traffic control devices. Status report on the trash PSA. Update on meeting with the City Council. Other Discussion Ramon asked the Board to entertain a motion that the committee of Ramon and Larry be expanded by one other person so we can at least have two members to attend the work session and he would like to recommend Cesar Rodriguez. Kathe asked if that is the group to set up the meeting with the Mayor for the work session? Ramon answered, 'Yes'. Ramon asked for a motion. Bob made a motion that Cesar be added to the group setting up a meeting with the City Council. Andrea seconded. No further discussion heard, motion passed unanimously. Ramon asked if there was anymore new business or any more old business. None heard. Cesar made a motion to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Bob made the second motion. No further discussion heard. Meeting adjourned at 5:37 p.m. Respectfully submitted xuqla�t-k Kathe Stark ADA Coordinator NEXT MEETING: December 15, 1998 4:00 P.M. - 6:00 P.M. BRANIGAN LIBRARY, DRESP ROOM A If you need an accommodation to attend and participate in this Board meeting, please contact the City ADA Coordinator at least 48 hours in advance at 528 -3401N or 528- 3701 /TTY. G: O ADA ADVISORY BOARD MEETING November 17, 1998 Sign In Sheet NAME ADDRESS (* optional) PHONE NUMBER (* optional) * Optional if wish to be put on mail list.