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05-10-2000 I LAS CRUCES METROPOLITAN PLANNING ORGANIZATION 2 POLICY COMMITTEE (PC) MEETING 3 Wednesday, May 10, 2000 4 Las Cruces City Council Chambers 5 6 Following are the verbatim minutes from the Policy Committee (PC)meeting held on 7 Wednesday, May 10, 2000, at 7:00 p.m. in the Las Cruces City Council Chambers, 200 N. 8 Church Street, Las Cruces, NM. 9 10 Members Present: Chairman Tommy Tomlin 11 Councillor John Haltom 12 Councillor Steven Trowbridge 13 Commissioner Ken Miyagishima 14 15 Members Absent: Trustee Nora Barraza 16 Commissioner Carlos Garza 17 Trustee Carlos Castaneda 18 Mayor Michael Cadena 19 Commissioner Joseph Cervantes 20 21 Staff Present: Brian Denmark(CLC/Planning MPO) 22 Tim McAllister(CLC/Planning) 23 Kirk Clifton (CLC/Planning) 24 Dan Soriano (CLC/Planning) 25 26 Others Present: Wayne Preskar 27 Bruce Beenken 28 Tony Abbo 29 Kurt Thorson 30 Mark Leisher 31 Eric Liefeld 32 33 34 1. CALL TO ORDER 35 36 Meeting was called to order by Chairman Tomlin at 7:00 p.m. 37 38 Tomlin: We do not officially have a quorum because our bylaws require at least one 39 representative from each entity being here and so what we're going to do is just have an informal 40 meeting. We're not going to take any action but there are a couple of things that were on our 41 agenda for(inaudible) purposes and even an opportunity for those members of the MPO Policy 42 Committee that are here to perhaps provide some input to the staff on the two resolutions that we 43 were going to consider so that they could make any adjustments that we might,we would like to 1 1 suggest and we're going to meet so take out your calendars and put down,we're going to meet 2 the third Wednesday or when do you want this done in June. 3 4 Denmark: Hopefully the second Wednesday. 5 6 Tomlin: The second Wednesday. 7 8 Haltom: That would be fourteenth. 9 10 ?: Flag Day. Is that Canada or here? 11 12 ?: I think that's here. 13 14 Tomlin: June 14', US that's here. 15 16 17 Denmark: What we'll need to take action on Mr. Chairman and members of the Policy 18 Committee is the two items that are on the agenda tonight in addition to adopting the 19 Transportation Improvement Program. The Public Transportation section of the Highway 20 Department is in need of our approved TIP that they can send on up to FTA so those would be 21 the three major items that we really need to get addressed before the end of the fiscal year. 22 23 Tomlin: Okay so if you will check with the Mesilla people and you get them that message as 24 soon as possible so they can schedule,put down in their calendars also the schedule. Okay,we 25 have anybody have any comments on the resolution to adopt the MPO Transportation 26 Plan(inaudible) Brian. 27 28 Denmark: I'll make one quick comment. I briefed the Policy Committee about some of the 29 issues that we had involved during the public hearing process and one of them related to Jack 30 Pickle's request to amend this section of the City's thoroughfare alignments because of the 31 master plan he wants to turn in for this particular site. What we found out and it was actually the 32 night of the public hearing is that this alignment was,was moved farther to the north than what 33 he originally had when the Sandhill Village proposal was approved. What he was showing not 34 as the proposal was the alignment that ties in with the Rinconada interchange at Highway 70 that 35 comes up and borders along this property line here. Basically all the residents of Las Colinas 36 came out in protest, showed up at the meeting. And that was when we realized that the 37 alignment how much it dramatically effect Arena Drive. There's a couple of things, one is it, it 38 pushes the burden of responsibility of crossing Sandhill Arroyo outside of the master plan area 39 and into a BLM set aside for the City which is a major issue and also splits the road 40 responsibility requirements between a variety of property owners on the north side versus the 41 master plan side. The MPO staff recommended that we do not support that alignment,that we 42 support this type of alignment which is farther south of Las Colinas, it pushes the arroyo crossing 43 into the area where they want to develop (inaudible) their responsibility. And also solves the 2 I problem that the Las Colinas people where concerned with and that is all the people that live here 2 but no longer use the collector which is Las Colinas Drive and hits Highway 70. In the City they 3 would funnel down Arena Drive and hit to Rinconada Boulevard. Under this alignment what it's 4 going to do is it's going to allow us to have just a local street that would cross over to this 5 collector(inaudible) allow this area to develop but it's going to make it very difficult for anyone 6 to want to get to Highway 70 by having to go back around. They were happy with that, in fact, 7 he called me yesterday to see if they needed to show up tonight and I said no because Mr. Pickel 8 through a letter that I submitted to them explaining what the TAC recommended and what the 9 MPO staff recommended, basically said that this alignment was fine and didn't have any 10 problems with it. 11 12 Tomlin: Okay. 13 14 Trowbridge: You just said he called me yesterday. Who? 15 16 Denmark: Jack Pickel oh no I'm sorry. The resident, I can't think of his name, lives right here. 17 But I was in contact with Mr. Pickel as well a couple of days ago and he told that he received my 18 letter and he had no problem, he wasn't going to protest or fight to have this at the alignment. 19 So, that's really the only other issue that's outstanding so we'll just be open to any comments 20 that will be received up until the 14t1i (inaudible). 21 22 Haltom: Brian,what are the pink and the blue? What do they represent? I can't read this. 23 What's the(inaudible)up there. 24 25 Denmark: It's,well we're not sure because I'm assuming this is information that was received 26 from a consultant. I'm assuming it's referring to specific land uses. 27 28 Tomlin: Yeah, commercial center. 29 30 Denmark: Oh,here it is. 31 32 (People talking at once) 33 34 Tomlin: Commercial center. 35 36 Denmark: See this,he gave, from what I understand is he's in the process of revising the master 37 plan for this area which again we're talking about this entire area. Due to this alignment 38 reconfiguration of the south he's redoing this area and we're not sure what he's proposing. It 39 gives the Las Colinas people another opportunity to view what's going to happen, the City 40 Councillors might be involved depending on its appeal at the P&Z level on up to the City 41 Council. So this issue really isn't over as far as the City's concerned but I would think we got 42 the alignment issues worked out. 43 3 I Haltom: At your hearing, the minutes of which I read, Pickel was saying if you object to this 2 commercial center there, I won't put it there. 3 4 Denmark: He claims he's moving it. We'll see. 5 6 Haltom: Okay. That(inaudible) outline on that map, that's a very large commercial center. 7 8 Denmark: Yeah, I would find it hard to believe that these people would want that there. So, I 9 wouldn't be surprised if they have some major concerns with what he plans on doing here 10 regardless of what's there unless it's just single family development. 11 12 Tomlin: Steve. 13 14 Trowbridge: Reviewing the minutes Mr. Denmark,there was some reference to the hill, I'm not 15 sure if it was the developers concern or the residents concern that there's a prominate hill on the 16 BLM property. 17 18 Denmark: Actually the hill is right here and he was trying to claim in the meeting that ,you 19 know,we have to have this road here because we can't cut through this hill. And you actually 20 can drive right here, there's actually a dirt road that cuts right through here. The elevations pretty 21 rough in here and then it finally drops down to the arroyo and then the road turns,heads up here. 22 But he was trying to argue that you can't go through the hill and that's why he had to go through 23 here. What he didn't say is that he can go on the other side of the hill and come around. If you 24 read the minutes you would probably determine it's a little entertaining. It was all our fault, all 25 the City's fault. 26 27 Trowbridge: Mr. Chairman. 28 29 Tomlin: Steve. 30 31 Trowbridge: Mr. Chairman, there was a bohemians to the complaints but I was grateful to notice 32 there was several persons from the Las Colinas area that were very reasonable and listened. 33 There were a few that, I think,hurt their own cause but I want to commend Brian for keeping it a 34 very civil affair. Thank you. 35 36 Tomlin: Okay so do we have any, any other thing that we need to look at as far as this is 37 concerned. 38 39 Denmark: No, Commissioner Ken Miyagishima had a, some comments or questions that he had 40 but we talked about them before the meeting,we actually had it addressed already in the plan. 41 42 Tomlin: Okay. 43 4 I Haltom: (inaudible) the City's acted that quick. 2 3 Miyagishima: It's already on there. 4 5 (People talking at once) 6 7 Tomlin: Maybe it's because we've been around too long and they anticipate our every quirk. 8 9 Haltom: Who made out this,what do they call it, plan, yeah the forecast? 10 11 Denmark: The forecasting was done by the consultants that are currently designing US Highway 12 70. They essentially had to revise,to make a long story short, they had to revise the numbers 13 because it has to be twenty year time projections in order to design the facility and based on the 14 timing of this project and the previous modeling work that was done, Parson Brinkerhoff were 15 basically stuck with fifteen year, fifteen year time horizons so they re-did the model to get us out 16 to twenty years. There was also some issues or assumptions that were incorrectly made under 17 the original model that they had to correct and one of them was the fact that Onate High School 18 wasn't built into the model so it obviously affected and they noticed some other irregularities that 19 didn't quite make sense. 20 21 Haltom: I know something that they didn't apparently notice and that is the sewer line that runs 22 all the way to Holman Road which means the development in that area is going to be much more 23 rapid then they would normally expect. It won't be incremental, it will be bang,bang, bang, 24 bang all the way out. 25 26 Denmark: We'll re-calibrate the model,that's one of the issues that we addressed was revising 27 the traffic analysis zones and that was sent to the Bureau of Census and will be related to the 28 2000 Census data so we'll be looking at that issue in great detail. 29 30 Haltom: I think that's going to have a major affect. 31 32 Denmark: I would think so. 33 34 Haltom: Okay. 35 36 Tomlin: Okay. Alright. For those people who came in late,we're having an unofficial meeting 37 because we do not have a quorum because the town of Mesilla is not represented. So if anyone 38 that's here for any particular item would like to just share a thought or two about the two 39 resolutions,the transportation plan or this forecast for US 70 Corridor,we'd be glad to have you 40 make any comments if you were here for that. (inaudible). Alright. Highway 70 project status. 41 42 Preskar: I guess, I can quickly touch on the forecast too just to repeat what Brian said. We 43 needed a twenty year forecast so it hasn't changed any of the conclusions that we've reached 5 I before. The first project is almost done. About the only thing left is to finish painting the 2 bridges and do some dress up and clean up. (inaudible) of the next contractor should be starting 3 here in the next couple of weeks. We have a meeting tomorrow with them as a matter of fact and 4 a final walk through the last punch list inspection next Wednesday with AS Horner. Seema feels 5 apparently that they can, that they'll be done next spring sometime so with that job and we're 6 still proceeding with the design for the next project. We're planning on trying to advertise it in 7 September,we having a little trouble getting the final right-of-way maps out so it might be 8 October or November but we're proceeding on and I haven't heard anything about the funding 9 one way or the other so we're acting like we know what we're doing. Moving ahead. 10 11 Tomlin: Like we have money? 12 13 Preskar: Yeah. 14 15 Haltom: I think Dominic's trying to take care of that problem in Washington .... 16 17 Preskar: I think so and I read.. 18 19 Haltom: Yeah, I read something about that, that he's trying to get something in the statue that 20 would prevent these,the State of New Mexico from charging. 21 22 23 Preskar: Yeah,that's what I understand. I think, I'm assuming that's going to get passed here 24 but. 25 26 Tomlin: It finally dawned on me that, and I don't know where I missed this,that we're going to 27 build the roads to connect the bridges,the other part of this next phase. 28 29 Preskar: Right, Right. 30 31 Tomlin: Cause when you told us the last time,well if their going to be finished in the next 30 32 days and I go out there,you know,their digging the dirt out and I'm saying jimminey christmas 33 they're not quite through here. 34 35 Preskar: No,we're, we'll be building all that roadway in the interchange which is actually quite a 36 bit because we have to put some acceleration gates, acceleration lanes on I-25 all those ramps. 37 That's all part of the next project. But we wanted to get the bridges out of the way, I think with 38 the bridges built,the rest of the work we can kind of,we won't have to cross traffic nearly so 39 much and impact outta be less. 40 41 Tomlin: That's good. Okay. 42 43 Haltom: And I think they already got some criticism,what are you doing with bridges out in the 6 I middle of no place. 2 3 Preskar: That's kind of funny seeing them, painted they really stand out too. But hopefully we'll 4 have a road going by, by the end of summer probably or at least the (inaudible) 5 6 Tomlin: Good, okay the Triviz project. 7 8 Miyagishima: I just want to compliment the gentleman on the work they've done so far, nothing 9 but positive comments I've heard from the public. Your accessibility, the work you all are doing 10 is great to have that type of caliber work especially on such a large project. 11 12 Preskar: Thank you. 13 14 Tomlin: Okay,we're gonna have a briefing about the Triviz extension from Tony. 15 16 Abbo: Mr. Chairman, commission members,my name is Tony Abbo, I am the project 17 development engineer for the State overseeing the Lohman interchange project. With me today 18 is Kurt Thorson who is with BHI, he's the(inaudible), he's representing as I said BHI whose the 19 firm that's doing the design on the Lohman interchange. For the past year we've been working 20 on the Lohman construction plans for the Lohman interchange and as many of you know and I'm 21 not going to get into many details about Lohman itself, if you have any questions I'll be more 22 than happy to provide you some,you know, background on this but basically we're looking at a 23 diamond interchange, redoing Lohman from basically Walton to Telshor. Until a month ago the 24 Triviz extension was not considered a part of the project. This (inaudible) has been talking with 25 the City and I guess they've come to an agreement so we,we're going to be proposing the 26 addition of the Triviz connection onto our project. Basically the Triviz extension will,we're 27 working on right now goes from the Wal-Mart entrance/exit, goes under Lohman itself, and will 28 tie into Entrada del Sol on the south side. Basically we're looking at a typical section that's a 29 similar to the one of the south side which is 2 -twelve foot lanes, 2 - four foot shoulders, and a 30 bike path that's separated from the actual road. The bike path widths is about ten feet and right, 31 the offset of the bike path is going to vary. As you can see, there's grays and purple here,these 32 are basically retaining walls that will be required so wherever we have retaining walls basically 33 the bike path will be coming in closer to the roadway. Under the bridge it'll be,you know, close 34 to the roadway, flare up, up here, flare back in, and then flare back out. The areas in red that you 35 see on this diagram are going to be actual right-of-way takes that will be required and we'll have 36 on the Wal-Mart side and one up here at the old Wal-Mart side, (inaudible) Wal-Mart side up 37 here. Basically this is the, this is what we have but we're proposing on this project. If you have 38 any questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them. 39 40 Tomlin: Time frame? 41 42 Abbo: Right now we've had to, due to some environmental concerns,we've had to separate both 43 projects. We're hoping to build them all at the same time. The design,when I say we separated 7 I the designs will be in packages. Hopefully we get the environmental clearance when the FHWA 2 in the time frame that we're looking at, we're hoping that both projects can be let out in around 3 February of next year. 4 5 Tomlin: John. 6 7 Haltom: I read some comments about the dangers of traffic right there at that exit from Wal-Mart 8 onto Triviz. Are you aware of those complaints about that? 9 10 Abbo: I have not heard about them. I don't know (inaudible). 11 12 Haltom: I was just wondering if, if there would be something that could be done to deal with the 13 problem that .... yeah. 14 15 Abbo: ..... 16 17 Miyagishima: There's a blind spot(inaudible) 18 19 Haltom: I couldn't visualize it by reading about it but they were commenting that it was very 20 dangerous there and L 21 22 Miyagishima: I know what you're talking about because when I leave here(inaudible) blind spot 23 (inaudible)worry about this traffic but make sure that no one's coming on (inaudible) corner 24 (inaudible) 25 26 Abbo: Corner(inaudible)by the water tank? 27 28 Miyagishima: I believe so. 29 30 (People talking at once) 31 32 Thorson: Looking back,that's the way it is, this curve right in here. Because from this point 33 south is actually what we're proposing to put in, that's not there today. Right now it just comes 34 out and curves back(inaudible)this way. That could be a problem I guess of people pulling out 35 and not seeing vehicles that are coming through here. They're pulling out,you know, kind of 36 wide,not entering into a lane(inaudible) could be a problem there. 37 38 Denmark: The City's looking into that too if I can add the Development Review Committee,we 39 have a DRC made up of staff that reviews all of their development applications,you know, for 40 the Planning &Zoning Commission, Council. There's been a proposal here for development and 41 one of the main issues that we talked about was right-of-way, (inaudible) differential that we 42 have from here down to here. We also talked about this interchange, in fact that the City might 43 have to be involved in some redesign of that intersection. So those were some of the issues that 8 I we're aware of and how we need to address them. 2 3 Tomlin: Steve. 4 5 Trowbridge: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Denmark or can anybody tell me what the status, I 6 know that there was I think incentive in the last legislative session for monies for a bike trail. 7 8 Denmark: It's my understanding that we did receive some of those recreational trail fund monies 9 for the North Triviz bike path project and it's our desire just to look at the whole,whole picture, 10 we're wanting to, there's several issues that are going on obviously we've completed the south 11 end and it should be noted this Triviz thing, the City's been pushing this Triviz connection for 12 years. As long as I've been involved in MPO, the MPO's always been pushing this so it's not 13 something that's just come up recently. As far as the North Triviz bike path,the connection that 14 we're wanting to get to is all the way up to the outfall channel and the outfall channel may 15 become the major link over to Telshor Boulevard. There's also discussion of hearing that out 16 and creating a recreational trail that will take you even behind the dam all the way down to the 17 south end and then out to the east. As far as the project monies go, I'm not sure what the exact 18 amount is and how far that's going to take us up to the north, it might not get us all the way to 19 the outfall. 20 21 Trowbridge: Yeah, I was wondering, Mr. Chairman, really the specifics of where it would begin 22 because you were talking about that. 23 24 Denmark: Originally it was going begin .... 25 26 Trowbridge: ...Proposed development. 27 28 Denmark: Originally it was,the thought was, it would start basically right here by the water tank 29 because the City was still negotiating with State Highway on this particular issue but we might 30 be able to tie those two together now and we'll just have to coordinate the area in here. 31 32 Tomlin: In this interchange design,will it eliminate the people that are heading west turning left 33 on Lohman to go south on 25. 34 35 Abbo: Heading west turning, go south. 36 37 Tomlin: On 25. Currently they can, currently they can do that at the stop light. 38 39 Denmark: There's no turn bay. 40 41 Abbo: Yeah,you're going to have a turn bay that's basically going to be the length of this entire 42 bridge. 43 9 I Tomlin: And they'll be allowed to turn left onto that on-ramp. 2 3 Abbo: Onto the on-ramp,yeah, right now all you have is basically the gap right now, the 4 intersection a car or maybe two can pull in but with this design,you know,we've calculated 5 what the Q's are and you'll basically going to have a left turn for the entire length of the bridge. 6 So there'll be storage plus three lanes or four lanes actually. 7 8 Tomlin: Is that going to be a shielded left turn? 9 10 Abbo: Yeah. 11 12 Tomlin: Okay, because I mean it isn't now and that's a real concern, safety concern letting 13 people out. A lot of people would get caught in the middle of that because they can't under the 14 normal traffic flow down. 15 16 Trowbridge: Mr. Chairman may I just ask,with the redesign, the slight redesign that's 17 happening,will this, is there any possibility may I ask the State, Mr. Abbo for,will this enable us 18 the opportunity perhaps to work a bike lane into the Lohman Avenue bridge? 19 20 Abbo: It is part of the bridge right now. We're including five foot on each side, five foot path. 21 Actually it's going to be part of the bridge deck itself that will act as a bike lane. It won't be 22 stripped as a bike lane, it'll be stripped as a shoulder but it will be a five foot path on both sides. 23 It was four feet and we got some comments from the public they wanted to see a little wider on 24 each side so we added a foot on each side so it's five feet right now plus your sidewalk on both 25 sides. 26 27 Trowbridge: Sounds good, thank you. 28 29 30 Denmark: I like to add to that, one of the things the MPO might have to look at in the future is 31 the pedestrian movement that we currently have from Triviz over to the mall. And I think there 32 might need to be a study at some point in time to really look into that issue and that might be 33 another possibility for bicycle lane if there was a pedestrian/bicycle ridge across that because 34 we've got a lot of kids, I've even seen adults jump the fence and cross the interstate to get to the 35 mall. 36 37 Trowbridge: Which business? 38 39 Denmark: No, right here. They,there's a lot of apartments down in this general area and it's 40 even the neighborhood closer to Idaho,they come up Idaho and they'll actually jump the fence 41 and run across the interstate. 42 43 Tomlin: John. 10 I Haltom: There was discussion at one point about underpass at Idaho but then forgotten. 2 3 Tomlin: Yeah, it's been forgotten. 4 5 Haltom: That's some years ago. 6 7 Tomlin: Well I think that you have a(inaudible)that we've talked about, I think Councillor 8 Valencia has mentioned the pedestrian bridge somewhere in that area in order to, because if you 9 have pedestrian access across the bridges those people are not going to walk that half mile or 10 whatever to get there, they're going to continue jumping the bridge, you know,that fence and 11 going across there. I don't(inaudible) I know in Albuquerque they have a couple pedestrian 12 bridges across the Interstate 40 and that's probably something that we need to look at, at some 13 point in time, I don't know where the appropriate place to. 14 15 Denmark: Yeah, I think a sure segment of the bicycle community would benefit more from that 16 to. Not the ones that are trying to get to A to B in record time or, but more the recreationist and 17 stuff that don't want to cross that big Lohman bridge would be impacted by that(inaudible) 18 19 Tomlin: And those in good enough shape too. 20 21 Denmark: To get across faster. 22 23 Tomlin: To carry their bikes up the stairwell. 24 25 Abbo: That question I will actually pass it on to Wayne because Wayne could tell you better on 26 what the process would be,you know, how to get something like. 27 28 Preskar: I think you would want get it in your(inaudible) eligible for federal funds. 29 30 Abbo: It would? 31 32 Denmark: Yeah,we'd have to look at it and get it in our plan. 33 34 Tomlin: I would like to suggest that we do that but then that's going to, that's going, are there 35 going to be set aside spots in the interchange for pan handlers or do we have it in the design. 36 37 Abbo: Not that we designed. 38 39 Tomlin: Protected cages with shades. 40 41 Abbo: We did not include that in the plans. 42 43 Tomlin: Okay. Cause that's a good, that's really good location. Any other comments on this. 11 I Yes sir. Yeah, come on up there, that mic's on. 2 3 Liefeld: I'm Eric Liefeld and I'm the Town of Mesilla's representative for the Bicycle Facilities 4 Advisory Committee and also serving as vice president on that committee. I just wanted to give 5 you a few general comments with regard to Triviz. I am aware that Triviz both south and north 6 is a priority with City Council for continuing the existing path. I just wanted to mention that 7 you,you keep saying bike path and that a very common thing to do. The common name for 8 these things is actually multi-use path and in fact most of the official organizations like the 9 Institute of Transportation Engineers and AASHTO are actually recommending against this 10 particular kind of facility for bicycle use namely a path that goes directly adjacent to and parallel 11 to a roadway. Now Triviz is a better example than most because it only intersects one major 12 roadway at this point and that's Missouri. But there are a number of issues that actually increase 13 danger for cyclists. And in general most of these organizations recommend not encouraging 14 cycling on these facilities because there are a lot of people who are running,jogging, hiking, 15 walking dogs, pushing baby strollers, etc. I commend your cross section that you showed a 16 minute ago that had four foot shoulders on the existing plan cross section. And I would just ask 17 you if your going to go ahead and do this to make sure that cycling in the roadway on Triviz is 18 still a viable option and that's a very minimal thing to do. All you have to do is,the lanes you 19 have width for in the sections your building, if there isn't width available for a four foot shoulder 20 then please put up the"share the road",their green and white signs that says "Share the Road". 21 We have existing examples on Espina Avenue. Just to make sure that cycling is still an excepted 22 activity in the roadway along that corridor. 23 24 Abbo: Mr. Thorson,please correct me on that, to the best of my knowledge right now, that's how 25 we designed it,we've divided the four foot, the four foot lane basically going to be from Entrada 26 to limits of our project which is Wal-Mart exit,the entrance and you'll have that four foot on 27 each side. That's not changing, that will not(inaudible) one way or another. 28 29 Liefeld: Great, Great. 30 31 Abbo: It's constant four foot on both sides. 32 33 Liefeld: Okay,the only other point I wanted to bring up which is,which is not directly related to 34 this but is, is related to Triviz and also Highway 70. Wayne and I have been in conversation a 35 couple times and I was going to try to call you today but didn't get there, as you're aware the 36 Highway 70 project is adding something like eleven miles of bicycle lanes in the one way 37 frontage roads that parallel Highway 70. Our principal concern is that those new bicycle 38 facilities be connected to existing facilities and when you originally talked to the Highway 39 Department we had requested that facilities be continued over the bridge. As it's turning out the 40 Highway Department doesn't sound like they want to that which is fine, that's their prerogative. 41 We are a little concerned if it we're able to connect bicycle facilities on Elks Drive and also the 42 facilities on Triviz with the new bike lanes going along Highway 70. Brian mentioned earlier 43 and Wayne and I've talked about the outfall channel box culverts which are located just south of 12 1 the Highway 70 project and I would just like to encourage you to use this opportunity to work 2 with the Highway Department and hopefully make at least a plan for how we're going to connect 3 these facilities whether or not you know the actually work is done in the near future. 4 5 Tomlin: Will there be on some of the,you mentioned the frontage roads and then we have the 6 underpasses on a couple of those that will connect to roadways like Roadrunner Parkway and 7 also to Northrise that comes to Telshor that comes to the culvert, come to Triviz that connect to 8 the bike path. So we may not be talking about the most direct route but I would perceive that our 9 plans and in some of these other roadway designs that if we're not doing that over the bridges 10 that we can still get there even though we may have to go in a round about way to even when you 11 come through and you want to go north on Triviz and up to Elks and then further, and further 12 north and even when we talk about the Engler extension from Camino Real eastward that will 13 then eventually come back in and connect through the Highway 70 and those frontage roads 14 you're going to be able to, I think in incorporate a meaningful bike path that has a place to go 15 and ....... 16 17 Liefeld: Exactly. 18 19 Tomlin: ... that's other than just for transportation, not for transportation, for recreation. 20 21 Liefeld: Our concern is, is that we avoid situations like we currently have on Telshor,where we 22 actually have some of the best facilities in town with regard to very nice wide bicycle lanes that 23 lead you to very busy intersections and which point the bicycle facility vanishes and that's true 24 both at Telshor and Lohman and it's also true when you head north on Telshor towards Del Rey 25 and then existing Highway 70 project. You know, (inaudible)those have happened in the past 26 but we need to make sure that we don't draw cyclists into danger. 27 28 Tomlin: Will the road under,when they put Del Rey under at the. 29 30 Abbo: All, all of the interchanges that we're, all the crossroads that we're building under 31 (inaudible)have a widened, there's a shoulder on the u-turn but there's also a widened section on 32 the (inaudible). 33 34 Tomlin: It would accommodate bicycle that we again could again put signs in to designate. 35 36 Abbo: (inaudible) connect the frontage roads (inaudible). 37 38 Denmark: Who are you referring to as "we" and"our"? You keep saying we, we want this or our 39 concern is this. 40 41 Liefeld: We'll BFAC has discussed this a number of times and particular with regard to the 42 North Telshor thing, I'll happily say "I". 43 13 I Denmark: Okay, that's a concern I have... 2 3 Liefeld: Is there a dispute with ... 4 5 Denmark: Well yea, I would like to respectfully caution that the BFAC because there's 6 individual interests in what you'd like to see versus what the BFAC has recommended to the 7 Policy Committee because I know the MPO staff as well as City staff has, does not support bike 8 route over the 70 interchange because the speed of traffic and the safety issue. And we would 9 rather see it connected some other way like the outfall. 10 11 Liefeld: I'm actually fine with that as well. I've discussed that with Wayne. 12 13 Denmark: I think we just have to be careful how we're saying,you know,we the MPO and the 14 MPO's, if it hadn't been adopted by the Policy Committee it's not an MPO policy yet. 15 16 Liefeld: That's fine, in fact the,what I was referring to specifically was original discussions that 17 we'd had in a BFAC meeting when Wayne came and presented to us initially. And our request 18 at that time to him was that we have, you know, a straight(inaudible) facility that goes straight 19 down. Wayne has very good reasons for not wanting to put bicycle facilities over the bridge and 20 that again is his prerogative. All I'm asking is that we realize there's still a connectivity issue 21 there and we make sure that's, you know, taken care of at least at a planning stage. 22 23 Denmark: Yea, and I think with, that's been recognized by the Policy Committee and.... 24 25 Tomlin: Isn't the transportation plan, as a matter of fact, a great section on bicycle facilities and 26 the philosophical approach to it that,that's's what we want to do, that we want to accommodate 27 those given the constraints that we have that might crop up but still where ever possible I think 28 we want to be.... 29 30 Denmark: The planning would emphasize connectivity throughout all of this because it's really a 31 problem for us, for public transportation, our thoroughfares, and bicycle, pedestrian as well. 32 33 Miyagishima: Mr. Chairman. Mr. Liefeld can I ask you a question. I often wanted to know, I 34 just haven't had a chance to,regarding the bicyclists when they're, it's been a long time since 35 I've really ridden a bike,but I remember riding single file but I've noticed, there's times on street 36 they actually, say there's about six or seven bicyclists and they're taking up a whole lane, is that, 37 that I guess generally allowable? 38 39 Liefeld: Yea, actually the way the State law is written, cyclists may ride on any roadway where 40 they're not specifically provided,the may ride two aggressed and the way the law reads is they 41 must ride as close to the edge of the roadway as is practical. Now that's not as possible, that's as 42 practical and that leaves it to the cyclist to determine that margin of safety. So for instance, if I've 43 got a roadway that has a bicycle lane in it, they're going to be out of a traffic lane even if they're 14 I riding to (inaudible) in most cases. I'll give you examples in Mesilla because those are the ones 2 that I deal with all the time. In Mesilla we have very narrow roadways that are two lanes with no 3 shoulders. In that case, very often the cyclist will take a lane,will ride in the middle of lane 4 because it is safer to make an automobile slow down and then overtake them then it is to try to 5 ride on the edge of the road and be possible clipped by the car and that's something that I've had 6 happen to me personally. So one of the things that is a common misconception is that those kinds 7 of accidents are common. Overtaking accidents were a cyclists is hit from behind with a car, 8 actually only comprise of two percent of cycling accidents so they're very rare. 9 10 Tomlin: Any other comments about this? Steve. 11 12 Trowbridge: Yea, I saw in my report, I think it was the BFAC report is verbatim recluding our 13 twenty year transportation plan,we're averaging, I think, about twenty bicycle accidents a year. 14 But I wanted to ask Mr. Abbo, thank you, I could have asked something and I want to the 15 committee give it a thought, Council especially, is there any possibility in the design of this or the 16 Lohman plan and the Triviz underpass that we make it impossible or uncongtible as much as 17 possible so that we don't have people living underneath there? That's become a real big problem, 18 I know people that are setting there watches on their way to work. When the go under the 19 underpass and there's people waking up and it sounds cruel, I've slept under bridges in Paris 20 whatever, but it's become a real big problem and it's going to become a hazard. That's going to 21 be a place where people are going to collect. Is there new design standards or do you have that 22 worked into the plan? 23 24 Abbo: I can check with the designers of, if there's some (inaudible) incorporated into the design 25 basically that will minimize what's under there by,you know,without having a bridge(inaudible) 26 knowing what,you know,what his design entails I cannot answer that question right now. But I 27 will take your concern and show it with him. 28 29 ?: (inaudible) tell me this,take a look,we're using the rock over here on 70. Might look at that 30 for the(inaudible) Just make it uncomfortable. 31 32 Thorson: The other thing too is the walls on abutments of both of these bridges are going to be 33 vertical up to the gurders as apposed to a lot of the current designers where they slope back and 34 then have kind of a ledge up there. So it's going to be very difficult if not impossible for some 35 one to get up to the top of the bridge, it would have to be down at the bottom. So that in itself 36 would discourage people. At least staying up under the bridge for a long period of time. 37 38 Trowbridge: Thank you. 39 40 Abbo: I use to never know how somebody could sleep under there with all that vibration. I guess 41 he has to get used to it. 42 43 Tomlin: Okay, any other questions. Yes sir. 15 I Leisher: I had one final comment. I'm Mark Leisher the bicycle shop representative, the Bicycle 2 Facilities Advisory Committee. I guess I could stand up and talk. The nature of my comment is 3 the bike shops would like to express their appreciation for Tony and Kurt and everybody else 4 involved in the design of this for listening so carefully to public input. That's it. 5 6 Abbo: Thank you. 7 8 Haltom: And responding too. 9 10 Leisher: This and being very responsive. 11 12 Tomlin: Okay, Tony thanks a lot for coming and you have so of those things that you would like 13 to leave for, for us to put on display somewhere? 14 15 Abbo: Actually these are all yours. 16 17 Tomlin: (inaudible) we've got, it's been a very good educational job with the presentation that 18 we've had,you know, the projects, pictures like this. The people in the mall,we've had those for 19 the Highway 70 thing and people have stopped and looked and know what's going on and it's 20 been a very good educational thing for our citizens and so any time you guys can do that or you 21 say oh we're going to do it,what's it going to be, what's it going to look like, this stuff is really 22 great visual. 23 24 Abbo: We can leave these with you and we've also have distributed everybody some comment 25 sheets so if something else comes after we're gone,you know,just go ahead fill the comment 26 sheet and the address is on there and you can send it,mail it back to us, fax it and we'll 27 incorporate it into the environmental document of this project. 28 29 Tomlin: Alright, thank you. 30 31 Abbo: Thank you very much. 32 33 Tomlin: Thank you. Alright,you've got anything else that anybody wants to say before we ... 34 35 Miyagishima: Unofficially adjourn. 36 37 Tomlin: .... adjourn unofficially. 38 39 Haltom: I move we adjourn. 40 41 (All talking at once.) 42 43 Haltom: Why don't we just quit. 16 P Q LAS CRUCES METROPOLITAN PLANNING ORGANIZATION TOWN OF MESIU A — CITY OF LAS CRUCES — DONA ANA COUNTY AGENDA. for the LAS CRUCES METROPOLITAN PLANNING ORGANIZATION The following is the agenda for the meeting of the Policy Committee of the Las Cruces Metropolitan Planning Organization (MPO) to be held Wednesday, May 10, 2000 at 7:00 p.m., in the Las Cruces City Council Chambers, 200 North Church Street, Las Cruces, New Mexico. The City of Las Cruces does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex, religion, age or disability in the provision of services. The City of Las Cruces will make reasonable accommodation for a qualified individual with a disability who wishes to attend this public meeting. Please notify the City at least 48 hours before the meeting by calling 528-3222 (Voice) or 528-3157 (TTY). This document can be made available in alternative formats by calling the same numbers listed above. 1. CALL TO ORDER 11. REVIEW OF MINUTES 111. NEW BUSINESS / ACTION A. Resolution No. 00-005: A resolution adopting the Las Cruces Metropolitan Planning Organization's 2000 Transportation Plan. B. Resolution No. 00-006: A resolution adopting the Year 2020 Traffic Forecasts performed for the U.S. 70 corridor in Las Cruces, from 1-25 to NASA Road. IV. STAFF REPORTS / OTHER DISCUSSION A. Status of U.S. Highway 70 Project B. Triviz Extension (through Lohman Ave.) - Tony Abbo, NMSHTD V. PUBLIC COMMENTS VI. ADJOURNMENT P.O. Box 20000 Las Cruces, New Mexico 88004 Phone (505)528-3222 Fax (505)528-3155