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10-23-2012 City of las Cruces® P E O P L E N E L P I N O P E O P L E PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AGENDA The following agenda will be considered by the Planning and Zoning Commission of the City of Las Cruces, New Mexico, at a public hearing held on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 beginning at 6:00 p.m. at City Hall, 700 N. Main Street, Las Cruces, New Mexico. The City of Las Cruces does not discriminate on the basis of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, color, ancestry, serious medical condition, national origin, age, or disability in the provision of services. The City of Las Cruces will make reasonable accommodations for a qualified individual who wishes to attend this meeting. Please notify the City Community Development Department at least 48 hours before the meeting by calling 528-3043 (voice) or 1-800-659-8331 (TTY) if accommodations are necessary. This document can be made available in alternative formats by calling the same numbers listed above. I. CALL TO ORDER II. CONFLICT OF INTEREST At the opening of each meeting, the chairperson shall ask if any member on the Commission or City staff has any known conflict of interest with any item on the agenda. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1. September 25, 2012 — Regular Meeting IV. POSTPONEMENTS — NONE V. CONSENT AGENDA 1. Case S-12-024: Application of Area 51, LLC for a preliminary plat known as Sonoma Ranch East 2, Phase 11 on a 31.612 ± acre tract located generally east of the future extension of Calle Abuelo, north of Azure Hills Road, north of the Alameda Arroyo, and within the Sonoma Ranch East 2 master planned area; Parcel ID# 02-37615. Proposed Use: 87 single-family residential lots. Council District 6 (Thomas). 2. Case No. Z2856: Application of William D. Wright to rezone from A-2 (Rural Agricultural District from the 1981 Zoning Code) to R-1 a (Single-Family Medium Density) to bring the property into compliance with the 2001 Zoning Code for a 2.00 + acre parcel located at 900 McCoy Avenue; Parcel No. 02-00512. Proposed Use: Single-family residential with accessory structures. Council District 1 (Silva). Page 1 of 2 VI. OLD BUSINESS — NONE VII. NEW BUSINESS 1. Case A1716: Application of Lisa Carlson to vary 15-feet from the minimum required 20-foot rear yard setback for a resulting 5-foot rear yard setback on a 0.141 t acre property zoned R-3 (multi-Dwelling Medium Density) and located at 4752 Radiant Court; Parcel ID#: 02-39622; Proposed Use: The continued use of an existing non-conforming rear porch. Council District 6 (Thomas). 2. Case No. SUP-12-04. Application of Debbi and Bill Caldwell for a Special Use Permit (SUP) to expand their home day care operation from 6 children to 12 children located at 4423 Nambe Arc in The Pueblos at Alameda Ranch Subdivision. Hours of operation would be from 6:30 AM to 6:30 PM, weekdays. Council District 6 (Thomas). VIII. OTHER BUSINESS — NONE IX. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION X. STAFF ANNOUNCEMENTS XI. ADJOURNMENT Page 2 of 2 1 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION 2 FOR THE 3 CITY OF LAS CRUCES 4 City Council Chambers 5 September 25, 2012 at 6:00 p.m. 6 7 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: 8 Charles Scholz, Chairman 9 Godfrey Crane, Vice Chair 10 Charles Beard, Secretary 11 Ray Shipley, Member 12 13 BOARD MEMBERS ABSENT: 14 Donald Bustos, Member 15 Shawn Evans, Member 16 William Stowe, Member 17 18 STAFF PRESENT: 19 Robert Kyle, Building and Development Administrator, CLC 20 Katherine Harrison-Rogers, Senior Planner, CLC 21 Adam Ochoa, Planner, CLC 22 Susana Montana, Planner, CLC 23 Mark Dubbin, CLC Fire Department 24 Chris Miller, Deputy Chief CLC Police 25 Rusty Babington, CLC Legal Staff 26 27 Becky Baum, Recording Secretary, RC Creations, LLC 28 29 I. CALL TO ORDER 30 31 Meeting was called to order at 6:01 p.m. 32 33 Scholz: Good evening, and welcome to the Planning and Zoning Commission for 34 Tuesday, September 25th, 2012. Before I do the call to order, since this is 35 an important meeting, all meetings are important; but this particular one, 36 I'd like the media people to identify themselves. Are there media people 37 here in the crowd? Okay, would you tell us who you represent please? 38 Beg your pardon? Sun News. Okay. Bulletin? Channel 4. Sun News. 39 Oh the Sun News is double-teamed tonight. Okay. Oh, and you, ma'am? 40 41 Unknown: KFOX. 42 43 Scholz: Thank you very much. KFOX. I wanted to correct some misinformation 44 which was in the media, I think, on Saturday and what I want to talk about 45 is the makeup of the Commission. This is a Commission by the way not a 46 Board, and we are volunteers. We are appointed by the Council members 1 I or by the Mayor to represent particular districts in the City. We're not paid 2 for this. This is, as I said, a volunteer operation. We do this because we 3 think it's important. We are what is called a Judicatory Body and I always 4 have trouble with that word and a lot of people don't know what it means. 5 It means basically that we make judgements about things. Okay. We 6 don't have a staff. We got our information from the Community 7 Development Department. They're the people, you know, who issue 8 planning and zoning things. They issue permits, they do inspections, they 9 suggest a plan for or a possible direction for developers and contractors, 10 and they also present us with variances and zoning changes and special 11 use permits. 12 Now it's our job to judge these things and decide whether or not 13 they should be approved or not approved. The Community Development 14 Department, of course, gives us their opinion on these and then we render 15 our decision. In the case of zoning variances and special use permits, we 16 make the decision here. In the case of zoning changes, we recommend to 17 the City Council, then City Council makes the final decision. Okay, I just 18 wanted to clear that up because there was some misinformation I think 19 about our operations. 20 21 II. CONFLICT OF INTEREST - At the opening of each meeting, the chairperson 22 shall ask if any member on the Commission or City staff has any known conflict 23 of interest with any item on the agenda. 24 25 Scholz: Okay, we have a conflict of interest statement. Gentlemen of the 26 Commission, any conflicts of interest in the cases we're going to review 27 tonight? 28 29 All: No. 30 31 Scholz: No, all right. Community Development staff, any conflicts of interest 32 there? No, okay, we're fine. 33 34 III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES 35 36 1. July 24, 2012 - Regular meeting 37 38 Scholz: All right, next on the order is the approval of the minutes. These would be 39 the minutes of July 24th, 2012. Any additions or corrections to those 40 minutes? Commissioner Shipley? No, okay. All right I'll entertain a 41 motion to approve the minutes. 42 43 Shipley: I so move to approve the minutes. 44 45 Scholz: Okay. 46 2 I Crane: Seconded. 2 3 Scholz: And it's seconded. All those in favor say aye. 4 5 Shipley: Aye. 6 7 Crane: Aye. 8 9 Scholz: Aye. Those opposed same sign. And abstentions? 10 11 Beard: Abstain. 12 13 Scholz: One abstention. Passes 3:1. 14 15 IV. POSTPONEMENTS 16 17 Scholz: Okay, next item, any postponements, Mr. Ochoa. 18 19 Ochoa: No sir, none tonight. 20 21 V. CONSENT AGENDA 22 23 1. Case Z2855: Application of the Immaculate Heart of Mary Cathedral to 24 rezone from R-1 a (Single-Family Medium Density) to R-3 (Multi-Dwelling 25 Medium Density) on a 6.00 +/- acre lot located on the northwest corner of 26 Idaho Avenue and Espina Street; a.k.a. 1240 S. Espina Street; Parcel ID# 27 02-11480. The proposed zone change would facilitate the additional use of a 28 preschool on the subject property; Council District 3 (Olga Pedroza). 29 30 2. Case S-12-018: - MOVED TO NEW BUSINESS. 31 32 33 3. Case S-12-021: - MOVED TO NEW BUSINESS. 34 35 Scholz: And then we have the consent agenda. There are three items on the 36 consent agenda and here's how that works. If there is anyone from the 37 public who wishes to speak to the consent agenda or the items on the 38 consent agenda then we'll put it in the first place on the new business 39 agenda and take care of it that way. Is there anyone from the 40 Commission who wishes to speak to the items on the consent agenda? 41 No? Anyone from Community Development staff? No. Okay, anyone 42 from the public wishes to speak to these items? These are cases Z2855, 43 Case S-12-018 and Case S-12-021. All right, seeing no one. I see one 44 hand. Okay, which case do you wish to speak to ma'am? 45 46 ELDERLY GENTLEMAN SPEAKING, NOT AT THE MICROPHONE. 3 1 2 Scholz: Yes, you wish to speak to these cases? Okay, which one particularly? 3 Which case particularly do you wish to speak to? 4 5 ELDERLY GENTLEMAN SPEAKING, NOT AT THE MICROPHONE. 6 7 Scholz: Are you talking about Case Z2855 or Case S-12-018 or Case S-12-021? 8 Oh, you're talking about the new business case. Yeah. Well, we'll all get 9 to that in a few minutes. Okay, ma'am, which case did you want to speak 10 to? 11 12 Stanley: Case S-12-018 and S-12-021. 13 14 Scholz: Okay. Well, fine. We'll put those first on the new business agenda. So, 15 gentlemen, there's only one case then on the consent agenda, that's Case 16 Z2855. All right, we'll simply take a voice vote on this. All those in favor 17 say aye. 18 19 All: Aye. 20 21 Scholz: And those opposed same sign. All right, that's approved. 22 23 VI. OLD BUSINESS 24 25 Scholz: Okay, any old business, Mr. Ochoa. 26 27 Ochoa: No sir, none tonight. 28 29 Scholz: All right, thank you. 30 31 VII. NEW BUSINESS 32 33 1. Case S-12-018: Application of Borderland Engineers and Surveyors on 34 behalf of Armando F. Villegas for a master plan known as AGI Subdivision 35 Mater Plan on a 1.716 +/- acre lot located on the northeast corner of Porter 36 Road and Payan Road; 6075 Payan Road; Parcel ID# 02-20035. Proposed 37 use: A master plan for a single-family residential subdivision proposed in two 38 (2) phases. Council District 5 (Gill Sorg). 39 40 2. Case S-12-021: Application of Borderland Engineers and Surveyors on 41 behalf of Armando F. Villegas for a preliminary plat known as AGI Subdivision 42 Phase 1 Preliminary Plat on a 0.982 +/- acre portion of a lot located on the 43 northeast corner of Porter Road and Payan Road; 6075 Payan Road; Parcel 44 ID # 02-20035. Proposed use: Phase 1 of the AGI Subdivision Master Plan 45 creating seven (7) single-family residential lots and one (1) tract. Council 46 District 5 (Gill Sorg). 4 1 2 Scholz: Okay, our first case of new business then is Case S-12-018 and the next 3 one will be S-12-021. So may we hear from the City presentation? The 4 way this works, folks, by the way, is that the City makes its presentation 5 first, then the applicant makes his or her presentation, then we open it for 6 public discussion. After we have public discussion we close it and then 7 the Commissioners make their decision. 8 9 Kyle: Mr. Chairman. 10 11 Scholz: Yes, Mr. Kyle. 12 13 Kyle: Staff would recommend that on Case S-12-018 and S-12-021 to modify 14 the rules, discuss both cases together and then vote on them separately. 15 16 Scholz: Okay, do you want us to simply suspend the rules for the moment? 17 18 Kyle: Mr. Chairman, the Commission would need to officially suspend the rules 19 if they so choose to. We can hear each of them individually. 20 21 Scholz: Okay. Well, let's hear them together and let's suspend the rules. 22 23 Shipley: I move to suspend the rules for Cases S-12-018 and S-12-021. 24 25 Scholz: Okay, is there a second? 26 27 Beard: Second. 28 29 Crane: Second. 30 31 Scholz: Okay, it was a tie. All right, all those in favor say aye. 32 33 All: Aye. 34 35 Scholz: Those opposed same sign. All right the rules are suspended. We can 36 discuss both cases at the same time. Mr. Ochoa. 37 38 Ochoa: Mr. Chairman, before I begin would you like a full presentation or would 39 you like to see what is her general question for the subdivision? 40 41 Scholz: Well, what's your pleasure? We already know about it, you know. We've 42 read the packet. Is there anything you want to add? 43 44 Ochoa: I guess that's a question you might want to ask the lady in the public, see 45 if she would like a full presentation on this? 46 5 I Stanley: No, I just have a question. 2 3 Ochoa: Just a question. I believe she just has a question. 4 5 Scholz: Okay. Well, who is the applicant here? Would you care to speak to this at 6 all? 7 8 Scanlon: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, my name's Ted Scanlon. I represent the 9 applicants. No, but I will be happy to answer whatever question she has if 10 1 can be of assistance in doing that. 11 12 Scholz: Okay. Good. Thank you, Mr. Scanlon. Yes, ma'am, would you come up 13 to the microphone and identify yourself please? 14 15 Stanley: My name is Robin Stanley. I live on Payan Road. And my only concern 16 about this proposal is on my street it is a very narrow road and we have a 17 development on one side of the street at the beginning of the street, which 18 is across from where they're developing this plot, and there's not enough 19 parking for the people that live in those residences. The driveways are 20 very short but the backyards are very long. And the way they built them 21 when they have company or even if they live in the house, if they have 22 more than two vehicles they park on the curb. Well, our street is very 23 narrow and I have a concern about emergency vehicles being able to turn 24 that corner and get down that road if both sides are developed. We're 25 going to have problems if we don't have adequate parking for those seven 26 plots to park their vehicles into their driveways and if they have room for 27 one more, because they're going to park on the curb and then we're going 28 to have cars parked on both sides of the curb and it's going to leave a real 29 narrow space in the middle. I'm sure they've thought of it but that was my 30 only concern. I have four generations in my household and one of them is 31 74 and I do have occurrence to call 911 for her and I have a toddler in the 32 house and things happen, and that's my concern. 33 34 Scholz: Okay, thank you. Mr. Scanlon, I have a question then: what is the width of 35 that road that she's talking about? 36 37 Scanlon: Payan Road is a standard minor local street width. It's ... 38 39 Scholz: What is that, about 45 feet, something like that? 40 41 Scanlon: It's 37 feet. 42 43 Scholz: Thirty-seven feet. Okay. 44 45 Scanlon: And of course we'd need to meet all the requirements for off street parking 46 and everything that are written into the codes and we intend to do that. 6 1 2 Scholz: Okay. Any other questions? Questions for this gentleman? 3 Commissioners? Okay, thank you, Mr. Scanlon. Any discussion? 4 Gentleman? No, okay, I'll entertain a motion to approve. 5 6 Shipley: We need to reinstate the rules. So I motion that we reinstate the rules. 7 8 Scholz: Thank you. Okay, a second to that? 9 10 Crane: Seconded. 11 12 Scholz: Okay, it's been moved and seconded we reinstate the rules, therefore 13 we'll vote on each item separately. All those in favor say aye. 14 15 All: Aye. 16 17 Crane: Are we doing # 18? 18 19 Scholz: Thank you. Okay. Now on Case S-12-018 I'll entertain a motion to 20 approve. 21 22 Shipley: So moved. 23 24 Scholz: Thank you. 25 26 Beard: Second. 27 28 Scholz: It's been moved and seconded. I'll call the role. Commissioner Shipley. 29 30 Shipley: Aye, findings, discussion, and site visit. 31 32 Scholz: Commissioner Crane. 33 34 Crane: Aye, findings and discussion. 35 36 Scholz: Commissioner Beard. 37 38 Beard: Aye, findings and discussions. 39 40 Scholz: And the Chair votes aye for findings, discussions, and site visit. Okay. 41 Case S-12-021, entertain a motion to approve. 42 43 Shipley: I move to approve S-12-021. 44 45 Scholz: Is there a second? 46 7 1 Crane: Seconded. 2 3 Scholz: Okay, it's been moved and seconded, I'll call the role. Commissioner 4 Shipley. 5 6 Shipley: Aye, findings, discussion, and site visit. 7 8 Scholz: Commissioner Crane. 9 10 Crane: Aye, findings and discussion. 11 12 Scholz: Commissioner Beard. 13 14 Beard: Aye, findings and discussions. 15 16 Scholz: And the Chair votes aye for findings, discussion, and site visit. Okay. 17 18 3. Case No. SUP-12-03: Application of Central Park West NY LLC for 19 construction of a 4,000 square foot metal building and parking lot to house 20 and operate an adult entertainment venue providing topless dancing and sale 21 of alcohol on a parcel lying within an M-1/M-2 (Industrial Standard) zoning 22 district located at 2221 Westgate Court, Parcel ID# 02-18451. The hours of 23 operation would be Monday through Saturday from 11 AM to 2 AM. Council 24 District 4 (Nathan Small). 25 26 Scholz: Okay, you said there was no old business, Mr. Ochoa, so our next case of 27 new business is Case No. SUP-12-03. Ms. Montana, are you giving the 28 presentation on this one? 29 30 Montana: Yes, sir. 31 32 Scholz: All right, you're up. 33 34 Montana: Thank you, Mr. Chair, for your patience and Commissioners. My name is 35 Susana Montana. 36 37 Shipley: Mr. Chairman. 38 39 Scholz: Yes. 40 41 Shipley: We have quite a few people standing at the rear. There are vacant seats 42 down in the audience. If we take a moment and let people be seated, 1 43 think it's basically, you want to do that for safety and so they're not 44 standing in the aisle. 45 46 Scholz: And comfort, yes. Thank you, Commissioner Shipley. Yes, there are 8 I plenty of vacant seats. If you have a vacant seat next to you will you hold 2 up your hand so people can see it? There we go. Ms. Montana, I think 3 we're ready for you. 4 5 Montana: Thank you, Mr. Chair, Commissioners. For the record, Susana Montana, 6 Planner with the Community Development Department. You have before 7 you a request for a Special Use Permit to allow operation of an adult 8 entertainment establishment. This adult entertainment establishment 9 involves topless dancing and it would also have a full liquor bar. It would 10 involve new construction on nearly an acre of vacant lot in an M-2 11 industrial district. The building would be 4,000 square feet. It would be a 12 metal building to blend in with its industrial neighbors. And a couple of 13 slides from now you'll be able to see the site plan and its parking, 14 landscaping, and it will also have outdoor lighting. It will have the required 15 signage per our Zoning Code for adult entertainment and I'll show you that 16 in a few slides. It will also have sound proofing insulation in the building 17 and no openings except for two doors and that is to keep the music 18 contained within the building and, of course, within the property. It would 19 have a screen wall or an opaque fencing along the Amador Avenue 20 frontage. The bar would open at 11 AM and it would close at 2 AM. The 21 dancing, the adult entertainment would start about 4:00 until 2 AM. 22 You have before you a slide showing the approximate location of 23 the property and it's facing Amador Avenue. It's accessed from Westgate 24 Court. It's bounded by, the area is bounded by Motel Boulevard, 17th 25 Street. These are about half a mile from the property and Valley Avenue 26 is about a mile away. I want to draw your attention to the site here. It's a 27 vacant property, as I said. It's within a business park, the Westgate 28 Business Park; access from this cul-de-sac. 29 1 want to bring your attention to the businesses around it: this is the 30 FedEx distribution center. It has parking, off-street parking for its vehicles, 31 its service vehicles and for its customers. This is the CSR Garage. The 32 owners of this garage have submitted letters, comment letters to you, 33 which are in your packet. They again have off-street parking. This is the 34 Burns Construction office building and it has a shaded or canopied parking 35 here and the Eros Video store and bookstore has off-street parking as 36 well; so very little cause for off-street parking. It has been said that 37 customers of the Eros Video store who bring their big rigs or large trucks 38 occasionally park on the cul-de-sac and make their turn in the cul-de-sac 39 and occasionally drive over the sidewalks and curbs and that is a concern 40 of the auto repair business here. 41 1 also want to bring to your attention this little driveway. It has an 42 access from Amador street; however, it's a substandard driveway and 43 curb but it is not used by the Burns Construction Company. In fact it is 44 gated, locked, and there is a sign that says, "Use the Westgate Court 45 access". 46 This is an image of the vacant parcel, the subject parcel. This is 9 I the Burns Construction which is immediately to the east of the subject 2 parcel. As you can see here this is a bollards and a chain which prevents 3 access to that driveway. That driveway is on the property of the subject 4 parcel. This is immediately to the west, the Eros video store property, and 5 you can see it has its off-street parking. This is to the northeast on the 6 cul-de-sac, the CSR Garage and this is the FedEx distribution center. 7 The Zoning Code, the City of Las Cruces Zoning Code has criteria 8 for the establishment of adult entertainment businesses. They must be 9 located within an industrial district. They must be located a minimum of 10 1,000 feet from the property line of a school, church, nursery or daycare, a 11 public park or recreational facility, or residential zoning district. There 12 must be a minimum of 500 feet from the property line of an establishment 13 that has a liquor license. And they also must affix a sign to the exterior 14 door entrance which states, "Warning adult establishment. The business 15 within is sexually oriented". So those are the zoning criteria for locating an 16 adult entertainment establishment. 17 This is the proposed site and it does lie within an industrial district, 18 an M-2 Industrial District. This is the site here and within 500 feet radius 19 there are no establishments with a liquor license. Within 1,000-foot radius 20 there are no schools, churches, daycare/nurseries, or residential zoning 21 districts. However, you may be interested in seeing where the closest of 22 those establishments are to the subject property; so staff did conduct an 23 inventory, so to speak, a survey to identify where those establishments 24 are in relation to the property and they are at least ... this is the nearest 25 liquor license. It's 2,800 feet from the property. This is the nearest park at 26 Burn Lake at 1,500 feet plus. The nearest church is 4,000 feet. The 27 nearest daycare is over a mile. So this site does meet the distance 28 requirement of the Zoning Code. In addition, the nearest residential 29 districts are over 3,000 feet from the subject property. The applicant is 30 here tonight and she will explain the details of her operation but I just want 31 to go over some features of the site plan that may be of interest in 32 establishing conditions if you choose to approve the project. The single 33 access is from Westgate Court. There is parking for customers and 34 secured parking for employees. There will be indoor and outdoor security 35 guards to make sure that the parking area is safe. There is landscaping 36 around the building and landscaping around the perimeter of the property 37 here on these three sides. 38 The owner of the auto repair shop on the cul-de-sac, CSR Garage 39 has commented and you have it in your packet that he suggests that 40 access be provided from Amador Street, Amador Avenue and that access 41 be limited to this area here, rather than Westgate Court. He is concerned 42 that the big rigs would park on Westgate Court and other people would 43 park and cause parking congestion on Westgate Court. He also suggests 44 that if this were the single access, that there be a screen wall or perimeter 45 wall around the entire property. The applicant is proposing only a screen 46 wall on Amador Avenue frontage. 10 I This is a focus or a zoom-in of the property, the area around the 2 building and the interior of the building, there's a single acces and exit; for 3 security reasons, it's a controlled entrance for patrons. There is a single 4 access for employees. It's a coded security door for the employees and 5 there are dressing rooms and lounge areas for the employees; disc 6 jockey, theater style seating around the stage, and a bar, restrooms, and 7 storage areas. 8 Our staff evaluation was presented to you in your staff report in 9 greater detail, but in summary the proposal meets all the zoning code, 10 special use permit, distance requirements, and based on our evaluation 11 we find that because it's in an industrial neighborhood there is no 12 proximity to what we call sensitive land uses and that of residential land 13 uses or daycare and nursery and that sort of thing. However, we believe 14 that even though it is further distant from these uses, there still could be 15 what we might call an attractive nuisance or reason for people to be 16 coming to the area that may not realize that it's adult activity if there were 17 outdoor activity, and this may cause congestion, parking congestion, and 18 noise. So, later on in our conditions we propose mitigation for this kind, 19 for the potential for noise and attractive nuisance and parking congestion. 20 The hours of operation related to noise and traffic impacts, except 21 for lunch hour traffic where the nearby workers would be traveling, there 22 shouldn't be any parking or traffic congestion in the area due to the off- 23 peak hours of this operation, it's a late night operation. There is that 24 concern about the big rig parking. There are two truck stops at Motel 25 Avenue and Amador and there is concern that those drivers would take 26 their big rigs, bring them to the site or park in the cul-de-sac. And we have 27 a suggestion in our conditions to mitigate that concern. 28 There is also the issue of the amount of parking: typically for adult 29 entertainment the parking requirement is 1:250 square feet. We feel 30 because there's a full service bar that the parking should be based on a 31 bar calculation at 1 space per 75 square feet and that would allow about 32 55 spaces. 33 34 Scholz: Require. Require about 55. 35 36 Montana: Yes, require 55. 37 38 Scholz: Thank you. 39 40 Montana: We feel the security design of the property and the interior space is 41 adequate, it's a good design and we believe that we have, we propose 42 mitigation measures to make sure that there is security or sound security 43 for both the employees and patrons. 44 Our recommendation is that the City prohibit parking of any kind of 45 vehicles; whether it's big rigs or automobiles on Westgate Court, and this 46 would mitigate the potential concern about congestion on the cul-de-sac. 11 I In summary, staff has reviewed and analyzed the project and we feel it 2 meets the Zoning Code and the Comprehensive Plan Policies and we 3 recommend conditional approval of the Special Use Permit based on the 4 findings found in the staff report. Of course, the Planning and Zoning 5 Commission has final authority regarding Special Use Permits, unless 6 they are appealed, unless your decision is appealed to City Council. Staff 7 recommended conditions of approval. We are recommending that the 8 applicant pay for the installation of the "No Parking" signs for Westgate 9 Court and on their property as people enter, that there be a big sign, a 10 very visible sign that warns the patrons not to park on Westgate Court, 11 and that their vehicles could be towed, can be expected to be towed, at 12 their own expense. 13 We also suggest condition number 2: that there be no outdoor 14 special events or entertainment activities on the premises in the parking 15 lot. We realize that there is a permit for special events and that there is a 16 City Noise Ordinance, but enforcement of those are based on complaints 17 and we'd rather that there were no complaints and therefore no outdoor 18 entertainment. Thirdly, we're recommending as a condition that the 19 applicant provide the landscaping that's shown on the conceptual site plan 20 that you have in your packet. Fourth, we also want as a condition that 21 they provide the rockwall or the opaque fence on Amador Avenue to 22 screen the site from the street and also to screen headlights from the 23 parking area to reach the roadway. Lastly, as I mentioned, we would like 24 to use the bar calculation for parking and that they not exceed that 25 maximum number. 26 Your options tonight are to vote yes to conditionally approve the 27 request as recommended by staff; to vote yes to approve the request with 28 amended or with new conditions of approval; to vote yes to approve the 29 request without any conditions; to vote no to deny the request; or to vote 30 to table or postpone the special use permit request. That concludes my 31 presentation, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. I'm happy to answer any 32 questions you may have. 33 34 Scholz: All right, thank you, Ms. Montana. Any questions for this lady? Yes, 35 Commissioner Crane. 36 37 Crane: Ms. Montana, what can you tell us about the signage that will be designed 38 to identify the building for potential customers? 39 40 Montana: The applicant has not submitted a building permit or a separate sign 41 permit. The conceptual site plan that you've seen has a very small sign, 42 The Bronx, simply The Bronx in addition to our required adult 43 entertainment warning sign. However, there are other opportunities for 44 signs permitted by the Zoning Code and the applicant, I would like to defer 45 to the applicant to answer what they expect to apply for when they submit 46 their sign permits. 12 1 2 Crane: Thank you. 3 4 Scholz: Other questions? I have two, Ms. Montana. What are the, I know we know 5 what the Zoning Code says about the placement of a property like this or 6 an applicant like this; what are the legal requirements for the City? That 7 is, what does the City Code say about adult entertainment properties? 8 9 Montana: Well, as I mentioned there are distance requirements and the Zoning 10 Code requirements. 11 12 Scholz: Right, yeah I'm familiar with the Zoning Code requirement. No I'm asking 13 do we have an opinion from legal on that? 14 15 Montana: Oh, yes. First if I may go back a little bit to answer Commissioner 16 Crane's, when they apply for their sign permit, they are able to apply for 17 one freestanding sign. That freestanding sign may be on the Amador 18 side. If it is it could be as tall as 30 feet above grade. It could be on the 19 Westgate Court side and if so it could be 18 feet tall. Each one, or 20 whatever one they choose, can only be 150 square feet in size. So, and 21 they also are allowed attached signs or wall signs at a size we calculate at 22 1.5 square feet per 1 foot linear feet of the building wall that it is attached 23 to. Now if I may defer to our Deputy City Attorney, Rusty Babington. 24 25 Babington: Chairman Scholz and Commissioners and audience here, let me sort of 26 give you a short synopsis of where we stand legally with this particular 27 request for permit. And I'll have to start briefly by saying the Supreme 28 Court has ruled on the constitutionality requirements for zoning as it 29 effects free speech or expression of speech on a number of different 30 occasions, starting back in '76 with the case called O'Brian, a case called 31 Young later on, and then more recently a case called Reton in 1986. And 32 what the Supreme Court basically indicated was, if it's content neutral, in 33 other words; government does not impose or control the content then 34 cities are allowed through zoning, through time, manner, and location to 35 put certain limitations on business establishments. 36 Using this as guidance in 1989 the City of Las Cruces established 37 the forefront of the Ordinance we're looking at now and what it decided at 38 that time was 1,500 feet from any school establishment, 1,000 from any 39 liquor establishment. That lasted for about five years until the City was 40 sued in Federal District Court over a business' ability to meet that 41 requirement or for the City to find some place that met that requirement. 42 We are required to, basically, in order to comply with the constitution and 43 federal law, basically change that to what we have now which is a 1,000 44 feet from schools, parks, and 500 feet from a liquor establishment. Right 45 now the City Ordinance is in compliance with federal law and state law. 46 We have a limited ability to control once again time, manner, and location 13 I as long as we remain neutral in content, to wit we can't control the 2 exercise of the speech or the expression. 3 Now having said that, there are certain things that you can control, 4 there are certain state laws that prohibit certain types of activity or limit 5 those activities. Those would be in place. I think Chief Miller could 6 probably address those. But I wanted to indicate to you, Commissioners, 7 that this Ordinance is about as good as we're doing right now. We're in 8 compliance with federal and state law. It's a valid Ordinance and it does 9 allow the City to put once again certain limitations on time, manner, and 10 location of adult entertainment. So that's it in a short synopsis. 11 12 Scholz: Thank you, Mr. Babington. Commissioner Beard, a question. 13 14 Beard: Ms. Montana, I don't have a good road map on my handout. Could we go 15 back to the view graph that shows the cul-de-sac? Could you show me 16 exactly where those signs are going to be posted on those streets? 17 18 Montana: Well, the applicant has not sought a sign permit so they haven't submitted 19 an application, but they would be permitted. They have a 15-foot setback 20 on the Amador side. 21 22 Beard: I'm thinking on the street. The "No Parking" signs on the street. 23 24 Montana: Oh, the "No Parking" signs would be posted here, here, likely. It's up to 25 the Transportation Operations Department, but likely at the entrance and 26 perhaps again here and here. 27 28 Beard: So the road that comes off of Amador, there would be parking? 29 30 Montana: There's ... I don't know if there would be parking here. We could certainly 31 ... if needed we could certainly ... 32 33 Beard: Right now you're not recommending parking signs there? 34 35 Montana: I don't think that it would be needed. The concern was for the big rigs 36 really parking here. 37 38 Beard: What about going further to the west? Okay, right in that area, are you 39 going to put parking signs over there? 40 41 Montana: We hadn't planned on doing that. We thought if there was congestion it 42 would be here. I've heard testimony that some big rigs do park here, but 43 this is a vacant building at the moment and so in the evening it hasn't 44 been a problem. But we certainly ... if there is a problem we'd have the 45 opportunity to mitigate. 46 14 I Beard: Well, here's my concern, I counted the number of parking lots that are 2 inside the proposed area and there are 48, if I counted it correctly. If you 3 look at inside the building there are seating for patrons of 60, not including 4 the workers. So there are more people working inside the building than 5 there is availability of parking on the outside. 6 7 Montana: Well, we based the parking requirements on square footage rather than 8 seating. The requirement is based on square footage. However, if you 9 like the Commission could have as a condition that it be based on seating. 10 11 Beard: Well, I'm just thinking that you have reviewed the number of people that 12 could be inside. We've got to provide for parking spots for all of those 13 people inside. 14 15 Montana: That's assuming each one brought a vehicle but I think the applicant could 16 tell you better, but I think it's the case that sometime more than one 17 person comes in a vehicle. However, if you like we can base it on seating 18 rather than the square footage. Because it's a special use and you can 19 mitigate with your conditions. 20 21 Beard: Okay. 22 23 Scholz: Yes, Commissioner Shipley. 24 25 Shipley: Ms. Montana, you said the maximum was 55; however, it says here that 26 they propose to have 56, and was your number ... 27 28 Beard: I counted 60. 29 30 Shipley: Sixty-five. 31 32 Beard: I counted 60 chairs inside. 33 34 Shipley: Sixty, so there is sufficient room on the parcel to have more than 55 or 56 35 parking spaces, is that correct? 36 37 Montana: Yes there is, especially if they move the eastern property line over to 38 include that driveway which is on their property and not part of the project 39 right now and also to lessen the amount of landscaping around the 40 building. 41 42 Shipley: Okay. Thank you. 43 44 Scholz: All right. Mr. Kyle, did you have a comment, sir? 45 46 Kyle: Yeah, Mr. Chairman, staff would like to make one correction: the City 15 I Zoning Code determines parking based on the square footage range of a 2 particular type land use. We don't tie it to specific number of patrons, etc. 3 1 do not believe that the Planning and Zoning Commission has the 4 authority to change the City's parking Standards on the fly. They are 5 established. They fit within the range for the proposed land use and if the 6 Commission wanted to require additional parking to mitigate a potential 7 use, the applicant would have to go through the variance procedure. 8 There was not a variance applied for as part of this request and the 9 Commission cannot unilaterally make that decision tonight. They would 10 have to come back through the variance process if that were in fact the 11 case. 12 13 Scholz: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Kyle. Ms. Montana, I had one other question, 14 and that was the problem of what we commonly call public safety. Could 15 we have the police speak to this issue? 16 17 Montana: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Deputy Chief Chris Miller is here and he can 18 respond to your inquiries. 19 20 Scholz: Okay. Chief Miller. 21 22 Miller: Mr. Chairman, we foresee a possible increase in traffic congestion and 23 parking issues in the area, drug and alcohol related incidence such as 24 DWI, assaults, public affray, possible incidence of indecent exposure, and 25 prostitution complaints; but the Police Department is prepared to handle 26 these complaints as they come in. The state has two particular 27 ordinances that deal with adult entertainment industries. The first is 28 indecent dancing which basically covers how these types of 29 establishments have to dress in order to be a liquor establishment, and 30 the other is called indecent waitressing which deals with how they serve 31 the alcohol. The Police Department would respond to those complaints as 32 they come in, and additionally, the Special Investigations Division of the 33 New Mexico Department of Public Safety would do more proactive type 34 investigations into these allegations or complaints. 35 36 Scholz: Okay. Questions for this gentleman? All right, Ms. Montana, you 37 completed your presentation? 38 39 Montana: Yes I have. 40 41 Scholz: Okay, may we hear from the applicant please? 42 43 Wootton: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission. My name is 44 Karen Wootton; I'm an attorney with the Carrillo Law Firm. I'm appearing 45 for the applicant. Central Park LLC is the entity that would operate The 46 Bronx on this property. Mariah Hernandez is the sole member of that 16 I entity. Her husband Jessie Hernandez is the sole member of Central Park 2 West NY LLC, which is the property owner. I will refer to them together as 3 the applicants. They are participating in the application together. Mr. and 4 Mrs. Hernandez met with City staff prior to purchasing this property 5 attempting to locate a property in Las Cruces that met all the City's 6 requirements for an adult establishment. Their realtor even came with 7 them to one of those meetings and made some additional inquiries with 8 staff for them. So they did a great deal of due diligence trying to find an 9 appropriate property in every way. They found absolutely nothing for sale 10 within the City of Las Cruces that met the requirements for this use. They 11 were eventually able to identify this property as something that had the 12 proper zoning and could meet all of the SUP requirements. They 13 approached the owner and were able to negotiate the purchase of this 14 property. So I want you to understand that they have made every effort to 15 select an appropriate property consistent with the City's Ordinance. Then, 16 they contracted with Studio D to design the development to completely 17 comply in every way with the SUP requirements. You've heard from City 18 staff and seen in the report that Mr. Nims with Studio D has accomplished 19 that. 20 Ms. Montana, I was trying to remember her name, the City planner 21 has indicated that they would talk about the operations. We actually don't 22 plan to talk about the operations today. If you have specific questions we 23 may be able to address them. I really don't understand how operations 24 issues impact your zoning decision. So that's why we didn't prepare to 25 address those. There is some basic information in your packet and we 26 may be able to address particular details, but that was not planned as part 27 of our presentation for that reason. It really doesn't impact the zoning. 28 They did tell me on your one issue in terms of the signage; yes, they 29 haven't put in the application. That's a different step in the process. They 30 have indicated they have no intent of having any sign on Amador. All they 31 want to do is have a sign on the building so that when people arrive they 32 can identify that this is The Bronx, the place that they were looking for. 33 We do take issue with the one staff recommendation on no special 34 events. This is industrial zoned property. Special events, if properly 35 conducted, are allowed even in "R" zoning, which is as you know is a 36 High-Density Residential zoning, in all Office zoning, in all Retail zoning, 37 and in all Industrial zoning. So I really don't see a basis for saying when 38 you look at the distances that this is from all other non-industrial usage, 39 why staff is proposing that particular restriction on this use which, as Mr. 40 Babington has pointed out, has constitutional protections. So before the 41 Commission starts public input, that's what we want to talk about briefly, is 42 the constitutional protections. 43 As Mr. Babington said, the City of Las Cruces just like every other 44 city in the country cannot completely prohibit adult entertainment. That's 45 not allowed. The Supreme Court settled that a long time ago. So I know 46 that this Commission understands that what you're to decide is whether or 17 I not the application meets the standards for SUP. Of course the rules of 2 evidence don't apply there. They don't apply here that would apply in 3 court, so I know that this Commission is very custom to sorting through a 4 lot of public input on land use issues much of which is emotional and still 5 applying that narrow legal standard. What seems likely to be a first for this 6 Commission is that tonight your job has constitutional implications. 7 Much of the debate in the media about The Bronx has been 8 focused on opinions about morality and religion as they relate to adult 9 entertainment. I anticipate that you're going to hear a lot of comments 10 about those issues. People have been asked in the media that they 11 intend to talk about morality and religion as why on that basis you should 12 deny this application. The first amendment allows the public debate that's 13 been in the local press, but the first amendment also protects my client's 14 right to offer adult entertainment in Las Cruces, and the rights of 15 individuals to choose that form of entertainment in Las Cruces. I've been 16 pleased to see that many comments from residents in the local media 17 have recognized that. But we are concerned that some individuals are 18 going to ask this Commission to use the zoning process to make their 19 ideas about morality a regulatory hurdle to others that disagree with it. 20 Some members of this Commission may have personal objections 21 to adult entertainment. 22 23 Scholz: Would you stay on the mike, please? You're getting off mike here. 24 25 Wootton: Okay. 26 27 Scholz: Thank you. 28 29 Wootton: And some of you may have concerns about public perceptions in the 30 community, that if you approve this application you are endorsing adult 31 entertainment. Upholding the first amendment requires you to set aside 32 those personal objections and concerns and to act as a fact finder; to look 33 at whether the applicant has met all the requirements for an SUP. City 34 staff has unanimously told you that the application does meet those 35 requirements. So while you listen to the public comments and deliberate 36 about your decision, we're asking you to focus on that. Mr. Nims is here 37 to respond to questions, Mr. and Mrs. Hernandez are here although 38 probably they would discuss them with me or Mr. Nims and provide you 39 with responses about specifics. Otherwise we would like to have an 40 opportunity at the close of public input to make any further responses to 41 issues that come up. If you don't have any questions for me. 42 43 Scholz: Okay. Questions? Commissioner Crane. 44 45 Crane: Ms. Wootton, are your clients related in any way to the Eros business that 46 is currently next door to this lot? 18 1 2 Wootton: No, not to my knowledge. I can double check with them and correct 3 myself if I made a misstatement, but no. 4 5 Crane: And perhaps this is not a fair question to you, but what kind of special 6 event could a topless club have outdoors? 7 8 Wootton: Well, certainly nothing that would violate the law. So they can have 9 special events that are certainly not topless and that don't violate the law 10 in any other way, but they can have you know what happens all over town, 11 some of the radio stations come and have music and they can have 12 events like anybody else does. They cannot be the same events that they 13 have inside, but that has to be regulated based on the outdoor activity. 14 You can't just take a first amendment protected use and apply special 15 rules that really have, are just presumptuous, that they are going to 16 somehow cause a greater nuisance than any other business that has to 17 comply with the same rules about special events. That's my concern that 1 18 don't believe that's constitutionally proper. 19 20 Crane: And the special events have to be confined to the property, not go out into 21 the sidewalk, the street? 22 23 Wootton: I don't know that there's anything allowed in special events generally that 24 would allow them to go onto the street. I have studied those provisions of 25 the Code. I looked at them very generally. I don't believe that's allowed. 1 26 believe Mr. Kyle could probably tell us if that's allowed. If it's allowed 27 generally it should be allowed for them unless there's something special 28 about the event that causes a special problem. Special events restrictions 29 need to be related to the property and what the actual proposed special 30 event is, not related to what goes on inside that's completely legal. That's 31 all I'm talking about is that segregation. 32 33 Crane: Thank you. 34 35 Wootton: That you can't just make a blanket prohibition. 36 37 Crane: Thank you. 38 39 Scholz: Okay, any other questions for this lady? Thank you very much, Ms. 40 Wootton. 41 42 Wootton: Thank you. 43 44 Scholz: Okay, we're going to open this to public discussion now. What I'd like to 45 remind you of is that we want to be respectful of other people's opinions 46 and we want to allow people to speak their piece and then sit down. How 19 I many wish to speak to this? Okay, let me take a quick count. Yeah, keep 2 your hands up please. I do this every day in class, so ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 14, 1 3 get about 30 people. Okay, I'm going to rule that we allow each person 2 4 minutes to speak and with the following considerations; I want you to 5 come up to the mike and give us your name and then tell us what your 6 concern is about this issue. If there are any questions from the 7 Commissioners, that won't count in your time. Okay? All right. I think the 8 best thing to do would be to ... Oh, I'm sorry, my colleague, Commissioner 9 Beard who's the secretary of our Commission is going to keep the time 10 and I'll tell you he's very good at this. Actually he repairs clocks and things 11 like that so he has a sharp eye for it. What I would suggest if it's 12 convenient for you, if you're not handicapped or something, is that we line 13 up in the center aisle here to speak and that way we can get everyone in 14 and we'll know what the order is and it shouldn't be a problem. If you're 15 having trouble standing that long, then I would suggest that someone 16 gives you a seat on the aisle, you know, scoot over and give somebody 17 that support. Yes, Commissioner Beard. 18 19 Beard: When you're talking, when you get to two minutes I will turn on this red 20 light, the Chair will give you time to finish your sentence. So when the red 21 light comes on your ending your speech. 22 23 Scholz: Okay, again when the red light comes on then you should wind it up. 24 Okay. Ready. You're first, sir. Be sure and stay on the mike. 25 26 Sutphin: Can you hear me? 27 28 Scholz: Yes. 29 30 Sutphin: Commissioners, thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is 31 Daniel Sutphin. I am perhaps one of the newest members of the 32 community, Las Cruces, my family and I having just moved here last 33 month from San Francisco. I speak to the Commission, I try not to speak 34 unless I'm qualified to speak about something and I'm actually a plastic 35 and reconstructive surgeon. I speak tonight because I've seen the fruits of 36 what establishments such as this bring, constitutional or unconstitutional 37 as our lawyer friend would like to have us believe, and I'll tell you it's not 38 pretty in any way personally or professionally. I've dealt with facial 39 fractures that women who work in these establishments sustained, and 40 I've dealt with injuries that I can't begin to depict on a public screen to 41 other portions of their bodies. It doesn't take a legal expert to tell you that 42 this type of establishment brings no fruit to a community of any good. 43 Perhaps it'll bring dollars into Mr. and Mrs. Hernandez' pockets and the 44 people who work there for a time. But I submit to you that none of you 45 gentlemen, certainly not me and I would say the vast majority of the 46 people who make up this community wish to see either our daughters 20 I however young or old they be, our wives, our sisters, or any female that 2 we know involved in this type of work. Thank you for your considerations 3 and I hope that and pray that you'll take them to heart. Thank you. 4 5 Scholz: Thank you, sir. I would remind you not to applaud because of if you 6 applaud every person who speaks we'll probably be here until midnight 7 and I don't think any of the people who are standing there really want to 8 see that, do they? Sir, you're up next. 9 10 Hillman: My name is Jim Hillman. 11 12 Scholz: Nice to see you, Jim. Jim is my backyard neighbor by the way. 13 14 Hillman: I'm a retired professional engineer. I've been a resident of Las Cruces for 15 about 34 years and during that time I've observed that some 30-40 16 churches in this area have worked hard to help families raise their children 17 in a nurturing admonition of the Lord. Also, I have observed that our 18 Councilors in our City have worked very hard and have moral courage 19 they've exhibited in various cases. The new challenge before us today, 1 20 propose that we look at God's word for our guidance. First Peter 5 reads, 21 "Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil roams about seeking 22 whom he might destroy. And then God through Peter encouraged us by 23 saying resist the devil by standing firm in the faith". Now we dare not 24 disregard the devils intensions. By doing that we'd provide a place of evil 25 in this strip club. Why? Because this increases the opportunity for the 26 devil to destroy our young men and women as he prowls about. So the 27 conclusion of such an action of allowing this club to exist is 3 things; it 28 would destroy the young families of our community; it will degrade the 29 moral bearing of our cities, it's certainly displeasing to our Lord and 30 possibly reducing the opportunity for future blessings. The choice is ours 31 men, whom will we serve. Thank you very kindly for listening and God 32 bless you as you make your decision. 33 34 Scholz: Thank you. Once again, I would ask you to hold your applause, please, 35 so we don't drag this proceeding out. Thank you. Yes, sir. 36 37 Powell: I'm John Powell, an officer of the Evangelical ministry fellowship local 38 chapter of the National Association of Evangelicals. We support over 100 39 pastors and churches and ministries here in Las Cruces area, some of 40 whom are here tonight. I have no hesitation to say similar to what the 41 medical doctor said earlier, that the most traumatic experiences we as 42 pastors have in giving pastoral care are directly related to both sexual 43 crimes and "legal sexual promiscuity". The time, relational, and spiritual 44 power lost as a result of the secondary effects of the adult activities 45 promoted by a business like The Bronx is staggering. It is difficult to 46 express this as strongly as I feel it. You as the Planning and Zoning 21 I Commissioners have the discretion to deny or approve it on grounds other 2 than whether they meet the present zoning requirements. So we ask you 3 to vote no on the basis of the secondary effects of sexually oriented 4 business. Thank you. 5 6 Scholz: Thank you, sir. Yes, ma'am. 7 8 Stanley: My name is Robin Stanley. I'm a resident of Las Cruces since 1978. 1 9 have a four-generation household and I'm speaking for each generation of 10 female in my household in saying that I'd really pray and hope that you do 11 not approve this zoning request because Las Cruces is a beautiful family 12 place. We have parks, we have sports. We have education. We have so 13 many assets for families. And I've been a foster parent, I've taken care of 14 the wounded of sexual abuse, taken care of the wounded of broken 15 families in my own home and I can tell you that the effects of such 16 behavior that is legal and protected by our constitution. I am the daughter 17 of a veteran, my son is active duty military, and he would die to protect 18 that Constitution. But I pray that we use the concerted efforts of those 19 people who went before us to protect that right, to also give us the right to 20 have a free and beautiful community without sexual material such as this 21 being promoted and I pray for the family that is trying to profit from this 22 type of industry. And I hope that you can find some other way to provide 23 for your family other than adult entertainment. Thank you. 24 25 Scholz: Thank you. Yes, sir. 26 27 Schrader: I'm George Schrader. And I've got a bad voice, but anyway I'm a retired 28 law enforcement officer, and for 15 years I assisted Las Cruces Police 29 Department and especially the investigation division in investigating these 30 types of establishments. And I'm just going to throw out a few questions 31 and you guys can research them later, but some of these questions that 32 I'm going to ask, I wonder if they've been carried out. For instance in New 33 Mexico statutes annotated section 60-38-2 which is the liquor policy for 34 this state it says "it is the policy of the Liquor Control Act that the sales, 35 service, and public consumption of alcoholic beverages in the state shall 36 be licensed, regulated, and controlled as to protect the public health, 37 safety, and morals of the community". 38 And I'm going to ask you, gentlemen, I don't want an answer, but 39 have you checked the morals of the community? The Liquor Board is 40 required to do that and to my knowledge no one has bothered to carry out 41 that aspect of the law. The other is the administrative powers and it says 42 that Alcohol and Gaming Division of the Regulation and Licensing 43 Department shall require criminal history background checks of the 44 applicants and that background check the law clearly says they shall be 45 fingerprinted and the background checks made through the FBI, and the 46 results should come back before you ever make any kind of a decision. 22 I My question, and I don't want an answer, have you completed background 2 checks on these individuals? If so, what was the result of the background 3 check? Then further in the law it clearly stipulates that any one requesting 4 a liquor license cannot be, if they are a retailer, they cannot be owners or 5 operators of a wholesale liquor establishment. 6 7 Scholz: All right sir, your two minutes are up, sir. 8 9 Schrader: Okay. 10 11 Scholz: Thank you. 12 13 Schrader: Now the next thing. 14 15 Scholz: Sir. 16 17 Schrader: Yes? 18 19 Scholz: Your two minutes are up. I'm sorry you'll have to ... 20 21 Schrader: My time's up? 22 23 Scholz: Yeah, your time is up. 24 25 Schrader: All right. Thank you. 26 27 Scholz: We don't have a trap door, you know, we decided not to use that. 28 29 O'Donnell: Hello. My name is Michael O'Donnell. I'm an adjacent property owner at 30 2321 Westgate Court. I am strongly opposed to the usage of this property 31 as an adult entertainment in an already established commercial 32 community. We as neighbors already must deal with unwanted 33 commercial traffic, idling trucks, and noise, and I must already pick up 34 trash from condoms, beer bottles, and cans only suspect it will increase 35 with the opening of another X-rated business. My business property value 36 will certainly suffer by no fault of mine and I would like to know who will be 37 the responsible party for that affect. Will it be the City that permitted this 38 operation along with the club? Parking is certainly not adequate when 39 employee parking is taken into consideration; this will certainly create 40 parking on other property owner's lots. I will be needing to establish a 41 fence around my parking to prohibit unwanted parking and unwanted 42 usage of my property for my tenants when they are not present to protect 43 their businesses and their investments. If this approval is [inaudible] ... 44 this operation, this club will certainly have a negative impact on already 45 existing businesses. 46 The other issue I would like to bring, there has been another 23 I property that has just recently been completed, owned by Mr. Glen Porter 2 at 316 Southgate Court which is definitely within the 1,000-foot distance 3 which is supposed to be operating as a church. That is [inaudible] ... the 4 address that I could figure here on my own is 316 Southgate Court. 1 5 would hope that someone would be able to check if that usage has been 6 approved and that would precede the usage that we're requesting tonight. 7 Another issue is that this impact on this property definitely will be 8 negative for the community and there are other properties that they can go 9 to but have chosen this because the price point is better for them but not 10 necessarily for the surrounding neighbors. The property diagonally across 11 the corner from Eros is vacant. It is available. They have seen the 12 property but apparently the price was not to their liking so they've gone 13 somewhere else. 14 15 Scholz: Okay, your two minutes are up sir. I do have a question though: what is 16 your business or what is your property that you're referring to? 17 18 O'Donnell: My property is catty-corner from FedEx. It's the old Dow Tile building on 19 the corner of Amador and Westgate Court. 20 21 Scholz: Okay. 22 23 O'Donnell: It currently has three quality tenants in it now and I'm afraid if this does 24 come in and my quality tenants leave, then what happens to me. 25 26 Scholz: Okay. Thank you. Yes, sir. 27 28 Stevens: My name is Thomas Stevens. I'm the Children's Minister in Bus Ministry 29 at the Cornerstone Baptist church. The legal counsel representation for 30 the applicant has suggested that laws and codes and so forth should 31 supersede those of morality and religion and I think we have enough of 32 that in America. We ought to take up some care for our children, our 33 daughters, our sons, our granddaughters, our grandsons, cause who's 34 going to attend this place of the community of Las Cruces. I grew up in EI 35 Paso and when I came to Las Cruces I saw a community that I believe in, 36 I could believe in, that I respected, that I wanted to be a part of and as an 37 employee of the City of Las Cruces I wear a patch on my right shoulder 38 that says, "Character Counts." And I believe that Las Cruces has 39 character now. I believe this will be a blight upon the character of this 40 City, also with that patch it says "Character Counts," it also says 41 responsibility. It says caring. It says fairness. I think we ought to be 42 caring enough for our citizenship and have a responsibility to say no. And 43 whether they fight us legally I believe we the people can finance the fight 44 against them legally and for a moral and a proper and good reason, a fight 45 to uphold the good character of our society, our City. Thank you. 46 24 I Scholz: Thank you. Yes, sir. 2 3 Ortega: My name is Ruben Ortega and I'm a lifelong resident of this area and I'm 4 not here to argue with you about the evils of topless bars but simply to ask 5 you not to allow this business into our city. I do have my convictions about 6 this type of business and would love an opportunity to discuss them with 7 you at a more appropriate time. I've been doing my best to stay informed 8 on this proposal. I understand that if you approve the topless Bronx bar 9 that this will be the first allowed in our city. I wonder, if we have functioned 10 fine without one in our city before, why is it that we now are even 11 considering allowing one in? I have three reasons why I strongly oppose 12 The Bronx topless bar proposal; I am a father and grandfather first and by 13 no means do I want my children or grandchildren exposed to the 14 exploitations and activities that these types of establishments impose on 15 our communities. 16 Reason number two, I do business with other businesses in that 17 area and I have to tell you that on occasion I do find myself going to the 18 archery shop that sits across the Eros property and I also find myself 19 going to FedEx to pick up a package. But being in the line of work that 1 20 do, I definitely will not be in that neighborhood with this kind of business 21 being there. If this establishment is allowed as I mentioned, I will not be 22 going to those locations and will no longer be doing business with the 23 archery shop or FedEx. 24 Reason number three, I'm a pastor of a local church, and too often 1 25 have to personally deal with people from our community who struggle and 26 have been connected to the violence that alcohol and this type of 27 establishment bring with it. And I know without a doubt because of the 28 line of work and I appreciate what the chief said here tonight, that all these 29 things that he mentioned will increase. And we already have issues with 30 substance abuse, domestic violence, financial irresponsibility, and women 31 being objects to be used and abused. I don't see any good coming from 32 allowing The Bronx topless bar to do business in our city. So I ask you 33 Commissioners, I ask you to vote no to this proposal. And I know that you 34 have the ability to vote no on the grounds other than the letter of the 35 zoning law; grounds like community's desire to avoid the secondary 36 effects of adult businesses like The Bronx topless bar. 37 38 Scholz: Okay, your time is up, sir. Thank you. 39 40 Ortega: I just wanted to thank you. Thank you for the time and we'll be praying for 41 you. 42 43 Cowan: Good evening. My name is Doug Cowan. I'm a pastor of the Cornerstone 44 Baptist church here in Las Cruces. And I can tell you on a daily basis 1 45 deal with families who are struggling and I am constantly faced with the 46 situation that we're going to see develop out of this type of business and 25 I that is the families that are being destroyed by that type of activity. I have 2 a statement of course out of the scripture, "Righteousness exalted the 3 nation but sin is a reproach to any people". And I have a question for us, 4 this establishment is going to have to hire women to work there, I wonder 5 if those women will be your grandchildren. I wonder if those women will 6 be our daughters. I wonder if those women will be young college girls who 7 are struggling to make a payment, a tuition payment, perhaps trying to buy 8 books, trying to buy supplies to make it on their own for the first time and 9 are now faced with the dilemma of coming up with enough money so they 10 fall into the easy trap of going into this type of business. Our society 11 should be elevating the purity and the beauty of our women. We should 12 not be going back and going to an age where we degrade them and 13 belittle them. I see this as nothing more than just a legal pimping 14 operation to market women. I ask you to pardon my bold speech; 15 however, this is a very bold subject and if this is allowed to come into our 16 city it will be a blight. It will be a perpetual blight because once one is 17 established, a business such as this, they become perpetual, one breeds 18 two, two breeds four, four breeds and so on. 19 20 Scholz: Your time is up, sir. Thank you very much. 21 22 Redlin: My name is Robb Redlin. I'm the pastor of Mountain View Baptist Church 23 but I do not stand before you just as a pastor but as a father. For over a 24 year I had a foster daughter up in Gary, Indiana, from the age of 11 to 12. 25 When she turned 19 she was involved in some things she shouldn't have 26 been involved in, in order to get money she worked in an establishment 27 such as this. I do not hate these people. But I do feel for them. She was 28 both physically and sexually abused and I'm asking you, I implore you to 29 think about our young women, our children. As a father I would do 30 anything I could to spare this young lady of what she went through. We 31 pick up over 10 children in that area less than a mile from there from the 32 age of 5 to 14. Many of them walk down Amador to go to the Pizza Hut 33 that is down on the corner at the truck stop. They'll be passing this. Don't 34 let them see it. 35 36 Scholz: Thank you. 37 38 Beeson: My name is Harold Beeson and I am with the Gabriel Ministry at St. 39 Genevieve's Parish, a ministry where we care about people and young 40 mothers and make sure that they don't abort their children. This is a 41 tertiary effect of this, but these women will be sexually abused. They will 42 become pregnant and we will see abortions. We will see children 43 martyred because of your decision today. I also come before you as a 44 father of three children, three girls. We use CSR Garage. My daughters 45 already feel creepy driving by the Eros bookstore in order to drop their 46 cars off at CSR. With this establishment there I will not allow my 26 I daughters to drop their cars off at CSR. We will drop our cars off 2 elsewhere. This establishment, we talked about morality. I'm wondering, 3 what, if this was a dog fighting establishment where dogs were being used 4 for the entertainment of men in a bar location would it be approved by this 5 committee? But no, this is not dogs, we care more for dogs than we do for 6 the women who will be used and abused in this establishment. I ask you 7 to reconsider this. This is about morality but it's also about our children. 8 It's about my daughter who we lost the battle in Albuquerque. We moved 9 here to raise our kids. My daughter recently was running in Albuquerque 10 and she was accosted while running on a running trail. Did that person 11 that accost her use one of these sites? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't 12 want to take that chance here in Las Cruces. Thank you very much. 13 14 Scholz: Thank you. Yes, ma'am. 15 16 Ortega: Good evening, Commissioners. My name is Gayla Ortega and I have a 17 question for both you as the Commissioners and for the applicants. 18 Personal convictions and moral and biblical issues aside, I simply ask 19 what would be the primary benefit to the preservation of and the overall 20 well-being of our community? And lastly I would ask you individually and 21 cooperatively to please not let fear of legal retaliation sway your decision. 22 Thank you. 23 24 Scholz: Thank you. 25 26 King: My name is Richard King. I come before the Commission today and the 27 issue at hand that is presented to the Commission and to the City as one 28 dealing with money and jobs. My question to the Commission and the 29 City is: at what price do you want to pay to allow this business to come 30 into town? Yes, it will affect families and it will affect marriages. But 31 besides that the location is by two truck stops. Prostitution on Picacho is a 32 known activity and from my perspective, prostitution and the criminal 33 element will move over to Motel Boulevard with the truck stops. I say as 34 far as the criminal activity, three weeks ago in EI Paso at one of the local 35 strip joints there was a shooting. City wants to promote an image for 36 families to move here and live. My suggestion to the City and the 37 community development is seek to provide more family oriented 38 businesses to Las Cruces such as Adventure Zone down in EI Paso and 39 different businesses like that that will bring families to this community. If 40 this Commission decides to give the nod to the business license here, 1 41 will appeal to the City Council and if the City Council appeals, I will do 42 what citizens did 25 years ago with the establishment out on the East 43 Mesa we will raise the financing to take pictures of license plates and post 44 them in the newspaper and let the individuals determine how they're going 45 to tell their wives and children. 46 27 I Scholz: Quiet please. 2 3 King: But once again let me encourage you and recommend to you that we 4 don't allow this business permit to go forth. We've talked about morality 5 and various things tonight but the City's conditional approval I would hope 6 that this Commission would hear the voices of those that are being spoken 7 tonight and vote no against this. And once again I think it would be safe to 8 assume that once you allow this type of business to come into Las Cruces 9 you can expect more, and more and more. 10 11 Scholz: Thank you. 12 13 Dehghany: Good evening, gentleman. I thank you for allowing us to speak on behalf 14 of the community. I just wanted to say ... 15 16 Scholz: Your name, sir? 17 18 Dehghany: Oh, excuse me, my names Ardeshier Dehghany. 19 20 Shipley: Please say that again. 21 22 Dehghany: Ardeshier, Dehghany. 23 24 Scholz: And how do you spell your last name sir? 25 26 Dehghany: Dehghany. I could spell the first one if you need me to. 27 28 Scholz: That's okay. 29 30 Dehghany: Okay. And I am 29 years old, single, and I just wanted to speak as a 31 member of the targeted demographic in a manner of speaking. I was born 32 and raised here in Las Cruces. I since have lived in other major cities for 33 school, work, and decided to return home to complete my education and 34 possibly start and raise a family here. Las Cruces is very beautiful, unique 35 place, and appropriate to raise a family but if The Bronx is open for 36 business it will no longer be home. I must also mention that our safety is 37 at risk here considering the undesirable activity that is invited with an 38 establishment like this. We've seen how EI Paso has had to deal with 39 problems again like the gentleman before stated with shootings and things 40 of that nature. There are also other constant acts of violence like street 41 fights and with no doubt other illegal activities. That is all. 42 43 Scholz: Thank you. Go ahead. 44 45 Furth: My name is Paul Furth. I attend Crossroads Church here in town. My 46 wife and I moved here 17 years ago with our children. We've talked about 28 I signage in and around the building and I was wondering if you know 2 anything about signage on billboards, radios, etc. So the signage could 3 be really quiet around this spot but in our City could be very loud. 4 5 Scholz: Okay, thank you. 6 7 Boyd: Good evening. My name is James Boyd. I'm speaking here in favor of 8 putting the adult entertainment establishment in Cruces. I want to make a 9 few points: number one I defer to the attorney of the Central Park West 10 NY LLC company. This is a zoning issue. This is not subject to the moral 11 majority. Second, I want to throw out a few numbers, according to the 12 department of labor and statistics strip clubs bring an average yield of 3.1 13 billion dollars into the economy. This proposed strip club will add 40-50 14 permanent jobs in Cruces. 15 And number two: and I can tell you how many jobs if we deny this 16 permit for zoning, not based on the moral majority, it will bring zero jobs to 17 the community and that's zero jobs for construction engineers, that is zero 18 jobs for young women. And I know you've heard some testament up here 19 but I seem to notice that there are more men who know what women want 20 than women do themselves who are speaking here today. 21 And number three: I want us to put the apparent facts Las Cruces, 22 the employment again is at 6.5% and that's 2 points below the national 23 average. So let me go through and state that we put the interest of Las 24 Cruces tax revenue, people coming from Hobbs, Carlsbad, and even 25 neighboring EI Paso to spend their tax dollars in New Mexico instead of 26 going to the city of EI Paso. And we put facts, coherent evidence, the 27 constitution and the right of this business to establish themselves in this 28 fine city ahead of the point of the moral majority. Thank you for your time 29 and have a good evening. 30 31 Scholz: Thank you. Hold your applause, please. 32 33 Swenson: Well, that's a tough act to follow but I'll try. My name is Fredrick Swenson. 34 1 am the owner of the Fredrick Bruce Audio Video Integration Company. 35 I'm a student at Dona Ana Community College. 36 37 Scholz: Nice to see you again, Fred. 38 39 Swenson: Oh, yes. 40 41 Scholz: Yes, I had Fred in class. He did very well. 42 43 Swenson: Dr. Scholz was my journalism professor. Let's talk about the First 44 Amendment for a minute because that was mentioned by the young lady 45 and, I apologize for forgetting your name, brought up the issue of the first 46 amendment and I think what we're talking about here is freedom of 29 I expression that the right to take off your clothes in front of a crowd of men 2 is freedom of expression. Well, maybe so, but we've got to realize that the 3 constitution guarantees freedom of expression but not an unlimited right to 4 freedom of expression or freedom of speech. The classic example, you 5 can't shout, "Fire," in a crowded movie theater because the likelihood is 6 that there's going to be a stampede and people are going to get injured 7 and maybe even killed. So, the Supreme Court drew some limits around 8 that right. I would encourage the Council to take a very hard look at the 9 possible effects. I mean conduct a very detailed, highly researched study 10 of what can happen, look at some other cities. Personally, I was in the 11 Army. I've been in the red-light districts of Frankfort, Nuremberg. I've 12 seen how women are exploited. I've seen how men are exploited. I've 13 seen the town itself is... well, you don't want to see it. The last person 14 that spoke talked about business and dollars and financial benefits 15 accruing to the application being approved, let's look at the intangibles. 16 Let's look, the folks that have preceded me have done a much better job 17 than I could do right now about talking on the negative. 18 19 Scholz: Your time is up. 20 21 Swenson: Are we done? Okay. Thank you. 22 23 Scholz: Thank you. 24 25 Burke: Okay, what am I supposed to say? Give my name. 26 27 Scholz: Yes, and be sure and speak into the microphone, sir. 28 29 Burke: Okay. Francis Burke is my name and the farm where this adult bookstore 30 is going to be was owned by my family from 1927 to... and then another 31 part of the farm was bought in '41. And I feel real bad about driving by 32 there and seeing this thing on my land that used to be my land and it was 33 because the second person that got the land put this thing on it. So I 34 would advise you to not let the second person, be sure what they're going 35 to put on there, if they're going to put on something like that, tell them no, 36 period. 37 38 Scholz: Thank you. 39 40 Burke: Okay. Okay, now I'm still talking and I'll try to get through. Next thing is: 41 hear all this talk about how it's going to increase the number of people 42 who are going to get jobs and how it's going to increase ... if you got to 43 get a job that way, forget it. It's not worth it. All this thing about money; 44 it's going to bring money, what about Tampa, Florida where the 45 Republicans met? The whole place has got strip clubs everywhere. This 46 thing has to stop now and I mean stop it. 30 1 2 Scholz: Thank you. Hold your applause, please. 3 4 Perez: Good evening, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. My name is Al Perez. As 5 a former member of the Planning and Zoning Commission, I understand 6 your responsibility you have and the request before you. Let me start by 7 saying that if it was only a matter of complying with zoning we would not 8 need the Planning and Zoning Commission. This is before you because 9 you have an obligation to look after the greater good of this peaceful 10 community. There were many times that we voted to deny requests 11 because we were looking out for that greater good. From the City's own 12 website the function of the Planning and Zoning Commission is 13 responsible for reviewing, planning the zoning and platting of the City and 14 investigating any related problems. 15 Well, here are the problems. You don't have to look very far to find 16 an EI Paso headlines of prostitution all centered around strip clubs. Just a 17 couple of headlines: two strip club employees charged with prostitution, 18 this is back in July, middle of July at Foxy's strip club. Police arrest three 19 after stabbing at Jaguars Strip Club. Police investigate report of shots 20 fired outside east EI Paso strip club. Man beaten, tasered, and arrested 21 outside Dreams Strip Club. Prostitution sting operation results in fifteen 22 arrests. Man charged with meeting underage girls, three arrested for 23 prostitution. Now this is from the EI Paso County's Sheriffs website just 24 last month and I quote, "Prostitution continues to be a problem in our 25 community and it is a source of many other crimes such as assaults, 26 robbery, and illegal drug use". 27 Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, is this what we want for our 28 community? You know I say no strip clubs in Las Cruces. Now I humbly 29 urge you to deny this request; at the bare minimum postpone it based on 30 parking, inadequate information to this community that you need to 31 investigate. Thank you. 32 33 Scholz: Thank you. 34 35 Bergsagel: My name is Andre Bergsagel. I'm a graduate student at NMSU. I'd like to 36 respond to a couple of things that were said a little bit earlier by the Legal 37 Department and also by the representative for the applicant. It was 38 mentioned that the Supreme Court allowed that the freedom of expression 39 was the main issue with these types of decisions and a little bit of research 40 on Google shows that that's about half of the cases maybe not numbers- 41 wise, but that's half the issue. The other half you have before you is what 42 they termed, and the legal term is "secondary expressions," "secondary 43 results," secondary" ... I forget the term, the legal term. I'm not a lawyer 44 but basically you can look as those as the Zoning Commission. It appears 45 that the zoning is buttoned up and it's perfect. It may be but I don't want 46 to get lost in details because it's important what the community feels about 31 I the intrusion of the strip club. You can do a study and I think a good place 2 to start would be to interview the pastors and people who have spoken 3 here to find out what those secondary effects would be; but as they've 4 been mentioned, I think it's a fact. It's not something that's debatable, that 5 that comes along with this type of business. So I'd just like to bring that to 6 light for the committee's consideration. Thank you. 7 8 Scholz: Thank you. [to people who are applauding] Please sit on your hands. 9 Yes, go ahead, sir. 10 11 Paz: Hello. My name is Jerry Paz. You know all men are dogs. Boys will be 12 boys. You know a city this size, this kind of thing just kind of happens. 13 You know that what happens in a city this size. It's a First Amendment. 14 It's a freedom. All these reasons that people will come up and give and 15 that kind of it's an inevitable thing as long as we meet the checklist on the 16 Zoning Code you get a pass. My family has lived here before New Mexico 17 was a territory. Long time. The City of Las Cruces promotes Vision 2040, 18 livable communities, sustainable communities, our communities, raising 19 families, kids, enjoyable. We've got a lot of parks. This City Hall is 20 beautiful. Downtown Las Cruces is being renovated. We look to the best 21 of Las Cruces when we look for growing our town. We all know this is a 22 seedy establishment. It's the worst of our humanity that comes out in this 23 kind of activity. It's not something that says, "Wow, this is Las Cruces! 24 This is what is good about this town. This is what is best about our 25 community." You have been on the forefront of inspiring us because of 26 your vision, because of the planning that this city does and looking for the 27 growth and looking for it in a very positive manner. That's what the 28 planning and zoning of this town is all about. We are looking at you to 29 inspire us. Fight it. Fight it. Ask your town, your planners to look up and 30 scour every law. Ask your attorneys. You've got an excellent one. He's 31 the smartest one of the two in here. I think you can win this thing. You 32 can take it on. Go down fighting. Do not roll over. Do not assume it's just 33 an automatic because we checked the boxes. This is our town. This is 34 our livable community. 35 36 Scholz: Time is up. Thank you. Folks, I know you're worked up about this. 37 know you're enthusiastic about some of the people that you're hearing 38 speak. I would appreciate it if you do not applaud, all right? Think about 39 that. You can do that. Self-restraint. All right, that's what we're talking 40 about here. Yes, ma'am. 41 42 Kruis: I'm Diane Kruis. I'm a physician at the campus health center. I just had a 43 woman in my exam room yesterday lamenting the fact that she could not 44 find a job in Las Cruces and I would hate to have her victimized by this 45 kind of establishment. You may say well it's her choice, she's an adult. 46 We have severe poverty on our campus. The social worker has seen so 32 I much poverty that she is opening a food pantry next month because we 2 have students who are going hungry. That's not a choice if it's to go 3 hungry or work somewhere like this. I don't think that this is a benefit to 4 our community and it will victimize young women at the university. 5 6 Scholz: Thank you. 7 8 Minaz: My name is Mike Minaz and I've been a resident of Las Cruces for 21 9 years. I'm a family man. I have three boys, Michael, Joseph, and Isaiah. 10 And what I want to say to you now, this is going to be a boil on Las Cruces 11 and it's going to spill out and spread. Don't let this happen cause I do not 12 come here right now in my will but God's will and I'm saying now that don't 13 let this happen. It's going to be dangerous. And there's 3 crosses that 14 stand in our city, don't put a curse on that. Do not do that for a dark cloud 15 will be over Las Cruces if this happens, and acid rain will come down. 16 And I do not want to be any of you right now to make this decision. I 17 would be afraid, but if I vote no, I would not. So I tell you now, brothers 18 and sisters, I tell you now, do not do this. Fear the Lord. Fear him 19 because there's a Kingdom up in Heaven that's much greater than here 20 and this will be a disease. My apology. Sell all that you have and give it 21 to God for he will do well with it. For what is it to gain all the riches of the 22 world and to lose your soul? Don't do this. My two minutes are up. When 23 your guys are up ... 24 25 Scholz: Actually they're not. 26 27 Minaz: I still have a few more words, my friends. 28 29 Scholz: Yes, well you still have a few more seconds. 30 31 Minaz: When you're time is up, let it know that you put a blessing in this earth. 32 Here in Las Cruces please, vote now. This is your time not mine, but 33 yours. 34 35 Scholz: Thank you. 36 37 Hooks: Hello, gentleman. My name is Neal Hooks. I'm running for State Senate 38 in District 38. 39 40 Scholz: I'm sorry. No political speeches, sir. That's not what we're here for. 41 42 Hooks: Absolutely. 43 44 Scholz: Your name again? 45 46 Hooks: Pardon? 33 1 2 Scholz: Your name again? 3 4 Hooks: Neal Hooks. 5 6 Scholz: Thank you very much. 7 8 Hooks: State Senator to 38. I'm sorry. Just a joke. Sorry. 9 10 Scholz: Yeah, I think you've just torpedoed your campaign, sir. Go ahead. 11 12 Hooks: I'm sorry. Any way I flew for the United States Air Force for 24 years, flew 13 fighters and drones defending this country, defending the First 14 Amendment. But this is not a First Amendment issue. If it was then we 15 would, just like the attorney mentioned, just like you asked, sir, we would 16 be able to do this outside if it was a First Amendment issue. It's not. 17 There are limits on the First Amendment like the other gentleman said. 18 Secondly, this is a common sense issue. It's about morality. The 19 founding fathers made it very clear that this Republic would not work 20 unless we had a moral foundation. This is a blatantly, blatantly immoral 21 activity that we cannot tolerate. Morally and constitutionally it does not 22 work. 23 Now let's talk economically. I'm all for economics, I'm all for more 24 jobs. We are depressed in this area, in this state for ... we are the poorest 25 state in the country. But these are bad jobs. There are such things as 26 good jobs and bad jobs. These jobs will not produce anything in this City. 27 They will not produce anything good in this City. They may make a few 28 ACLU folks happy. They may make a few perverts happy. And they may 29 put a few dollars in this lady's pocket but they will not benefit this City. 30 hope you consider all those things. Thank you. And by the way if there's 31 anything such as a democracy, so far I've heard about 95% to 5% for and 32 against this proposition. So if these hearings are worth anything, I hope 33 you listen to the folks. Thanks. 34 35 Scholz: Thank you. 36 37 Marquez: Hi, my name is Melissa Marquez and sounds like you just threatened his 38 campaign. Anywho, this, it sounds like it's more of a logistical problem as 39 well as taxpayers paying for this to pay for the police to guard our system, 40 for the fire department to respond to all these things which may and will 41 occur if this comes to fruition, God forbid it to happen. But something like 42 this, it's a taxpayer burden and it is something that taxes, that Las Cruces 43 cannot afford any more taxes. And it's a public issue safety as well and 44 kids need something more to do, to aspire to than to have a life of crime. 45 Our society needs to, and it's pronounced Las Cruces, for the misinformed 46 boy that says Las Cruzes, the City of the Crosses. So just a little 34 I correction for you back there. And so, yes, I think it is a nice town. It sure 2 made it a nice town and please don't threaten our candidates, Mr. Scholz. 3 Thank you. 4 5 Miles: I'm Jerry Miles and I've lived here for 30 years. I first came here in the 6 military in 1958 and we decided we liked it so well we were going to retire 7 here and so we did and in that time there've been a lot of changes in Las 8 Cruces and few in me maybe. But at any rate there's a war on our 9 families. This nation including this City, we've lost our moral compass on 10 which this nation was founded. There's a war on our families, I would've 11 of not ever dreamed of the violence and death we see on children, small 12 children, babies killed by their parents and others and women. They're in 13 a war. Well, you know the English poet John Donne once wrote, "No man 14 is an island entire in itself. Each is part of a continent." And you know we 15 can say that about that area. I may never even see that place but it's part 16 of my City and this is my City and I intend to live here the rest of my life. 17 And I would like to say again what Pastor Cowen said, the Bible says, 18 "Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people." And 19 that means a city too. Righteousness exalts a city. Sin is a reproach to it. 20 1 consider it kind of like a cancer. You know if you get a melanoma quick 21 you can get rid of it, cut it out. If you leave it very long it permeates your 22 body and finally leads to death. And so what do we want to pass on to our 23 future generations, our children, our grandchildren, our great 24 grandchildren. One that exalted from righteousness or one that is a 25 reproach from sin. So I would ask you please to consider and refuse this 26 petition. 27 28 Scholz: Thank you. Yes ma'am. Be sure and pull that mike down so you can 29 speak directly into it. There you go. 30 31 Fiebert: Hi. Okay. My name's Jude Fiebert. I ran the Jude's Birkenstock store for 32 30 years here and I think a couple of people know me. And I would like to 33 remain neutral. No applause. My first question is to the lady lawyer: are 34 you going to have men strippers? And if so, are they going to be topless 35 or bottomless? No answer? She is not allowed to answer. And I need 36 Mr. Ochoa. A history of, he came back. Can you remember a couple of 37 years back please, help me, when we had a beautification person? 38 39 Scholz: Please stay on the mike, ma'am. 40 41 Fiebert: And we were going to beautify Burn Lake and the City paid $25,000 to get 42 some ideas and we had meetings and we had posters and talkers and 43 everything, and the person that gave the estimate or whatever, the plan, 44 said, "Oh we're going to make it look just like Central Park in New York." 45 Well, look at Burn Lake. It's a graveyard now. They've done nothing; 46 used $25,000 on a plan. I just want you to think about that everybody. 35 I This project is called The Bronx. I'm from Brooklyn. I traveled for four 2 years to find this town. I lived in a Westfalia Volkswagen and I wore 3 Birkenstocks. When I came here everybody on the street stopped me and 4 you guys, you all made me so grateful because I had the best business in 5 town. We had a coffee shop and I called Starbucks and I wanted to close 6 it and I said, "Hey come on down I've got this ready-made coffee shop. 7 I've got the first espresso machine in town," and if you go to the Double 8 Eagle they bought it from me. It had a big eagle on top. And Starbucks 9 said, "Nobody in New Mexico drinks coffee." And now we have five 10 Starbucks stores here and five in every big city. Just think about it. Thank 11 you. 12 13 Scholz: Thank you. Yes, ma'am. 14 15 Turner: Honorable Planning and Zoning Commissioners. I do ask you to ... 16 17 Scholz: Yeah, your name, please? 18 19 Turner: Oh, Katherine Turner. 20 21 Scholz: Thank you very much. 22 23 Turner: I do ask you to either vote no or table it because I think some measuring 24 needs to be done from the area to Burn Lake. This Legal Department 25 needs to maybe speak on this. What type of, whether it was a meter stick 26 or how did you measure it from the perimeter of the Burn Lake Park to the 27 corner of the land for the people seeking the zoning change? Also, I 28 moved to Las Cruces with my husband in 1972. He became employed at 29 New Mexico State University and then in 1975 we moved right there, close 30 by and we're still there because that's where we thought that location, it 31 was close to ... my husband could come home from the University at 32 lunch and watch the stages of development our children had. I think this 33 is a quality of life issue. I'm a member of Brown Road Protective 34 Association which it's real close by there. And also I think, I'm surprised 35 that engineer Scanlon here isn't up here very concerned for his Villa 36 Amador owners for that PUD. That's very nearby this land because like 37 what I've been hearing, the quality of life won't be good enough there for 38 people to scramble in. My retiree friends that I've met here are also falling 39 in love with New Mexico and Las Cruces, from the east and the west, the 40 north, and even from the south. 41 42 Scholz: Okay, ma'am, your time is up. Thank you. 43 44 Funk: Hi there. My name is Laura Funk. I am a Christian, member of St. James 45 Episcopal Church and a member of this community. First of all I think I 46 probably do speak for a lot of women over generations who have decided 36 I to cultivate their minds so that they have something more to offer the 2 world than just their bodies. 3 In addition, you know objectification of women isn't good for 4 anyone, women, men, what it does to men, how men seen women in a 5 community where something like this, some sort of commodification of 6 women happens. It makes us feel a little bit unsafe. But I wanted to bring 7 up something that wasn't discussed, you brought it up in your regulations 8 which had to do with a 500 meter, I guess 500 foot. 9 10 Scholz: 500 foot, yes. 11 12 Funk: Parameter from an establishment that serves alcohol and establishment 13 that has adult entertainment. Now these are both in the same facility so 1 14 guess that's okay. Okay, so I don't understand what that law is for if it's all 15 right that they're all in the same spot. And so how does that affect the 16 adult bookstore next door, the liquor versus the adult bookstore thing 17 which I'm guessing has videos and stuff like that in it. That's another 18 thing. 19 And the third thing is, it seems that this whole establishment, all the 20 discussions, parking, stuff like that, has to do with big rigs, 18-wheelers, 21 mostly male I'm guessing, drivers who come from somewhere else, pass 22 through Las Cruces, and go off to somewhere else. Okay, they can't park 23 their big rigs in the parking lot; they're parking on the street. If you have a 24 special event I don't know where they're going to park. But also they are 25 drinking in this establishment, so are we complicit by approving this in 26 sending those big rig drivers back into their big rig to drive wherever they 27 need to go cause they can't take a taxi hom? And my time's up. Thanks. 28 29 Scholz: Okay, your time's up. Thank you. 30 31 Lowe: My name is Dennis Lowe. I come on not only my behalf but, hopefully, for 32 the community. I just wanted to bring to your attention, sir, I was with the 33 82nd back in Ft. Bragg and I just wanted to protect our country. For 34 people that I didn't know Mickey Mouse; and now we've got officers that 35 we pay good money to, to maybe not so good money, but we're putting 36 them in harm's way. And we've got to consider 'cause there's a cause 37 and effect here, you know, with whatever cause that you're doing, there's 38 going to be an effect. You've got to consider the fact: we don't want 39 these people's blood on our hands. When it happens, it's going to happen 40 hard. This is something you're going to have to wrestle with and I hate to 41 be in your position, but thank God, that you're in that position and that 1 42 know that you'll see it for what it is, rather than what the code says we can 43 have. And I'm talking to you sincerely, sir, it's not a matter now only of 44 morality which you're going to hear, I understand, and I'm all for that. But 45 the bottom line is the safety of the community. I run a truck stop. I've 46 been running one for over 12 years and I've been in the business for 37 I about 18, so I'm right by there. And I'd rather not say where I'm at, but 2 understand I see this day in and day out. We do not need this going 3 forward. Consider the consequences. Thank you. 4 5 Scholz: Thank you. 6 7 Austin: Thank you, Commissioners for the opportunity to speak. My name is Tom 8 Austin. Without making a campaign speech, I'm seeking to represent the 9 people within this community, but I'm not coming to you in that form. I'm 10 coming to you as a citizen and as a father of a 16-year-old daughter. But I 11 was recently asked this question: if elected to represent the people of this 12 county and this community, what will I do to promote a quality workforce 13 and to create jobs? My answer to that question was: it's not my 14 responsibility to do either of those, but what I do as a representative of the 15 people of this community is to create an environment where the private 16 sector creates jobs and a quality workforce. 17 So the question that I have for the Commission, I understand you're 18 appointed, but you're appointed by elected representatives of this 19 community. The question I have: is this the quality workforce that we 20 want within our community? Are these the types of jobs that we want to 21 create? And to the gentleman who came and talked about the money that 22 we want coming from Carlsbad and Roswell instead will go to EI Paso, 23 well that's okay, go to EI Paso. We don't need the money here. We'll take 24 an establishment there that will provide a quality workforce and create the 25 jobs that we want within our community. The other question is that you 26 have to ask, there are private property rights for the owners that surround 27 this property, even if they're within the 500-foot limit or the 1,000, they do 28 have private property rights and their rights should be maintained and 29 upheld. Thank you for your time. 30 31 Scholz: Thank you. Yes, sir. 32 33 Churchman: Good evening. My name's Joe Churchman. And I have a question, is this 34 truly just a zoning issue? At some point ... 35 36 Scholz: No. Actually, sir, it's what we call a Special Use Permit. 37 38 Churchman: Okay, and I understand you all are appointees, but at some point this is 39 going to our elected officials. 40 41 Scholz: No. The decision is ours. If it's appealed to the City Council, you know, 42 then it'll go to the City Council 43 44 Churchman: Okay. So I guess I understand, does public opinion play into this at all or 45 is it just ...? 46 38 I Scholz: Well, I think we've heard an awful lot of it tonight, yes. 2 3 Churchman: Okay. Well, New York, great place to visit but I chose to live here. EI 4 Paso, same thing, great place to visit, but I chose to live here. I like it 5 here. I'd like to see it the same. I think we've heard a lot of that tonight. 6 Do we allow this place here just because they can? If we do, I'd like to 7 say it's a good location. It's by the sewer plant. 8 9 Scholz: I think the sewer plant is more than 2,000 feet away, but that's okay. 10 11 Churchman: It's across the street more or less. You can smell it from there, take my 12 word for it. 13 14 Scholz: When the wind blows. 15 16 Churchman: Okay, if it's just a matter of economic development, why don't we put in a 17 meth lab there? I think the effect would be about the same. It would be 18 destructive and toxic. And in closing I'd like to say with my fellow Las 19 Crucians, this is not who we are. Thank you. 20 21 Scholz: Thank you. Be sure and pull the mike down so it's, yeah, it's right by your 22 mouth. There we go. 23 24 Savasquez: Hi, I'm Claire Savasquez and I'm from Mesilla Park Community Church. 25 I'm 15 years old. I'm younger than most of you, sorry. 26 27 Scholz: Do you have that mike right in front of your mouth? There you go. 28 29 Savasquez: Okay. Is that better? I just want to say that and since I'm younger than 30 most of you in here, what kind of influence is this putting on youth like 31 myself. I respect my body, I respect that I'm not going to go out and do 32 that, but also I would like to speak for my generation and the boys. It's 33 offering temptation for them once they get older and that's not what I've 34 been taught. So I'd just like to speak for the youth part here. 35 36 Scholz: Okay. Thank you. That was her mom who was clapping by the way, in 37 case you were wondering. Yes sir, go ahead. 38 39 Sims: Good evening. My name's Brad Sims. I'm an attorney here in Las Cruces 40 and I represent a property owner in the area. There are a few concerns 41 that this property owner has with regard to the actual zoning itself. I'd like 42 to refer specifically to section 38-33 G, it states, "An adult bookstore/video 43 store or adult amusement establishment M-1/M-2/M-3, these uses are 44 permitted provided", and we've talked a lot about schools, churches, 45 nursing, daycares, public parks, and residential zoning districts. 46 Number two is that the use will be permitted as long as they're a 39 I minimum of 500 feet from the property line of a liquor establishment. 2 Now, the site plan as it exists right now appears to push the Eros store 3 into noncompliance based on the fact that it would be less than 500 feet 4 from a liquor establishment. Now this seems to be the type of concern 5 that either requires a variance or at least takes us out of the special use 6 sort of permit realm. 7 8 Scholz: Sir, do you represent the bookstore? 9 10 Sims: I'm sorry? 11 12 Scholz: Do you represent the bookstore? 13 14 Sims: I'm actually not at liberty to say who I represent, just a concerned property 15 owner in the area. 16 17 Scholz: Okay. So you're posing hypothetical then? 18 19 Sims: I suppose so, yes. 20 21 Scholz: Okay. 22 23 Sims: In addition to that we have the concern which has been spoken to here by 24 a couple of different people with regard to a liquor establishment that is 25 also an adult entertainment establishment within the special use permit of 26 the M-2. That also appears to violate the zoning ordinance on its face and 27 I'm sure Karen can speak to that and I would like to hear what she has to 28 say with regard to that use specifically, you know itself. In addition to that, 29 it appears that the retail uses that are allowed under section 38-33 G do 30 include a bar, pub, or tavern, but the proviso is in the code there that the 31 bar, pub, or tavern not include dancing. Now I am unaware of an opinion 32 that has interpreted these type of adult entertainment activities or the 33 normal dancing that you would see in a bar, pub, or tavern and has made 34 a demarcation between the two, but if there is one, that's another thing 35 that i would like to see the applicant address. With regard to how is it that 36 the type of entertainment or the dancing that is happening within this 37 establishment does not fall underneath the prohibited dancing section. 38 39 Scholz: Thank you. Yes sir. 40 41 Ivey: Good evening. My name is Terrance Ivey. I wasn't even planning on 42 being here at all today, I kind of just showed up. So, I'm basically here 43 just to stand up as somebody who believes in personal rights and the 44 ability for people to choose what they do and how they do it without the 45 interference or pain or causing on somebody else. Now, the people that 46 work in these establishments, you know you can say that it's going to raise 40 I prostitution or drug use, but there's already drug use here. There are 2 already meth houses here, okay. There's no strip clubs here, so you can't 3 really say that yet. There's already prostitution. So who's to say that that 4 prostitute isn't going to go into that titty bar and now this person's actually 5 going to become a more dignified person in society. So based on 6 everybody's religious feelings, that's irregardless. 7 There's a separation between church and state and people should 8 have the right to open any kind of establishment that they want to that 9 stays within the legal rights of any kind of establishment. So this is going 10 to be basically, it's a fight against whether or not people are, irregardless 11 of its apparent moral reprehensibility, there are factors that play in that 12 people should be able to do what they want to do without harming 13 somebody else. Now, somebody who gets shot, somebody who, you 14 know there's crime everywhere, it doesn't really matter what establishment 15 is behind it. Sonic gets robbed, are you going to shut down Sonic 16 because somebody gets shot. It's ridiculous. Seriously. 17 18 Scholz: Thank you. 19 20 Valdespino: I am Emilio Valdespino. The conflict between not opening this 21 establishment, I would like to see this establishment open. You know it's 22 not going to change Las Cruces image or anything like that. It's still going 23 to be a good community no matter what and I'm also a good uncle and 24 do have a niece that is going to be two years old. I can't tell you what 25 she's going to do when she grows up, but you know stuff happens. Also, 26 there's a lot of ... it doesn't matter, you know you can go into a nightclub, 27 there are still going to be things that aren't supposed to be there. They're 28 dancing on there like they are having sex. So it doesn't really matter. Go 29 stick your head in a nightclub; they dance worse than the strippers do 30 sometimes. You know, it should just be an option. It doesn't matter. 31 mean, I'm still a good person no matter what. No matter what I do I'm still 32 going to be a good person. Okay. Just because I'm young, everyone's 33 thinking that my words don't matter. But, you know it's not going to stop 34 me from going to EI Paso and do it, you know. It's not going to break up, 35 it's not going to break up families, you know, it's a choice. It's a choice. 36 No one's making these people go there and it is going to need women to 37 dance or to do whatever, but they're not going to have a slave driver, 38 some dude cracking a whip saying that you need to go there. It's a 39 choice. It's their choice. No one's making them do this. No one's making 40 people go there. It's a choice. Thank you for your time. 41 42 Scholz: Thank you. 43 44 Maurer: Good evening. My name is Chris Maurer and I come to you this evening 45 as a licensed professional counselor here in the community. I've been in 46 the field for about 20 years, worked with all kinds of different type of 41 I clientele from juveniles, mental health, substance abuse, and also sex 2 addicts, sex offenders, juvenile sex offenders. And I know that quite a few 3 people have come here before talking, presenting like a moral aspect to 4 this argument. 5 But I would like to offer a ..[inaudible]... I would like for you guys to 6 consider a mental health, you know a health aspect to it. In that how this 7 would impact our community you know in a mental health such as like 8 when you look at what's going on in our society today with the rise of porn, 9 porn addiction, sex addiction, you know it's on the rise. So when 10 something like this is introduced into our community, I'd like you to 11 consider the type of clientele that would be attending these strip clubs. 12 You know are they predators, are they sex offenders, you know what kind 13 of people are attending these things. So, thank you for your time. And 14 thank you. 15 16 Scholz: Thank you. Yes, ma'am. 17 18 Maurer: Good evening, Commissioners. This is my cheat sheet because I wasn't 19 prepared to come up here. I texted my husband ... 20 21 Scholz: Tell us your name first. 22 23 Maurer: Emily Maurer. 24 25 Scholz: Thank you. 26 27 Maurer: I texted my husband and told him to come talk so he stole my talk. I think 28 a zoo would be great as opposed to a strip club. I'm speaking on behalf of 29 a licensed drug and alcohol counselor and I've been on the other side 30 working with these women, not only the women, but the families. You 31 open up this strip club you're opening up a door for violence, domestic 32 violence, substance abuse, suicide, cutters. These women, when I was in 33 the beauty industry, worked with them, and they made a lot of money. But 34 the flip side of it is, the repercussion is the depression, the broken families 35 so whether it's a choice or not, it's generational. These women have been 36 abused before, not all, but the choices aren't theirs to make. I've never 37 met one of these women that said, I'm going to grow up and be a stripper. 38 So working in the field with probation, parole, it does affect men and 39 women. We're on the border area, gentleman. You're going to open up 40 this to drug cartel, to laundering, like Dennis said, he runs a trucking 41 business. I would propose that you men go home tonight with your 42 daughters, your families, your children and make a good conscious 43 decision for the greater morals of our values, of our community. Thank 44 you. 45 46 Scholz: Thank you. Yes, ma'am. 42 } 1 2 Contreras: Okay, my name is Cameo Contreras and I say if it's legal, let's go for it. I 3 mean, yeah, I mean Hitler, I'm sure he was following his legalities. I'm 4 sure that China is being perfectly legal with all their human rights abuses. 5 And hey slavery was legal. So what are our laws based on if not morals? 6 We can't say, don't bring your morals to this meeting because we're 7 surrounded with them. And also, being previously unemployed, it's really 8 sad, and you start getting desperate and you're like, oh what am I'm going 9 to do and I'm going to be broke and I have no money. And it's really nice 10 to know that us women can sell ourselves to men, you know, as opposed 11 again help to go to college or building businesses and creating jobs that 12 actually give women some dignity, make them feel more than like a body 13 bag of body parts for men to look at. I mean we want to ... you know, I 14 mean I want to be an editor, some women want to be nurses. But they 15 can't get those jobs, it's like, oh, well, I'm a woman at least I can sell 16 myself. Thank you. 17 18 Scholz: Thank you. Yes, sir. 19 20 Goodrich: Hello. My name is Daniel Goodrich and I'm just going to keep this brief. 21 think we all know what needs to be done and that's follow the law. 22 There's already been an opinion rendered and that was by the Supreme 23 Court and I'd just like you to keep that in mind. And thank you. 24 25 Scholz: Thank you. 26 27 Johnson: Good evening. My name is Kit Johnson. Firstly, I'd like to pay tribute to 28 this young lady over here who had the courage to stand up and say what 29 she did at this meeting at a young age. God bless you young lady for 30 doing that. We need more young people that are willing to stand up and 31 issue their opinions. This is a very important matter before you gentlemen 32 this evening. 33 Clearly there are issues to be considered such as safety, those 34 have been spoken about, those have been testified to. There are issues 35 with regard to physical harm. The very first gentleman that spoke, spoke 36 from a professional standpoint of taking care of women that have been 37 harmed physically over what has taken place as a result of being involved 38 in these types of facilities. There's also a concern that you must apply 39 with regard to the other landowners in the area. Clearly their businesses 40 will be adversely affected by this. You've also heard testimony from those 41 landowners, those who have said that and certainly have very real 42 concerns about the possibility of their land being and their values of their 43 property being deteriorated as a result of this. 44 But then lastly, you must consider as what was said with regard to 45 our first amendment right. It's been suggested that you're put in a box. 46 That this business fits well within that box, so therefore you must comply 43 I and go right ahead and approve that. 2 Well, I implore you tonight that I see no reason for and I see no 3 reason why moral values should be thrown away with regard to your 4 decision. When did it become wrong to make decisions just on safety, just 5 on property values, just on people's harm, certainly all of those are valid 6 reasons. But when did it become wrong to make decisions based on 7 moral values? When did it become wrong to make decisions based upon 8 what is right and wrong? 9 10 Scholz: Okay, your time is up, sir. 11 12 Johnson: Thank you very much. 13 14 Scholz: Thank you. 15 16 Wagner: Good evening. My name is Fritz Wagner. Las Cruces is a beautiful city. 17 It's a wonderful city, wonderful place to live. I don't see where this 18 establishment is going to add any value to this city. In fact, it's going to 19 have the opposite effect. It serves no good purpose and it only does 20 harm. And if I understand Ms. Montana correctly, you have the authority 21 to say no to this. It's not a ... everybody's saying well you have to do the 22 legal thing. Well you have the legal authority to say no. That can be 23 appealed later on down the road, but you have that authority and I ask and 24 1 pray that you take that authority to say no tonight. Thank you. 25 26 Scholz: Thank you. 27 28 Halloran: Hi. My name is Justin Halloran. I'm a junior in high school, 16 years old. 29 And I would like to say as a member of this community that women are 30 individual human beings made by God, beautifully made. Like any other 31 guy you know I'm attracted to girls, but if I took one out I would buy the 32 ticket for the movie, I would open the doors for them. They are individual 33 human beings and I hope this city doesn't stoop so low as to open a place 34 like this. And our country says that we are one nation under God. So, 35 thank you. 36 37 Scholz: Thank you. 38 39 Goldblatt: Good evening. My name is Greg Goldblatt and I don't know if you 40 received a packet of information I had dropped off on Friday for you all 41 here at the, at City Hall. 42 43 Scholz: Yes, we did. Thank you very much. 44 45 Goldblatt: Thank you. I'm married. I have three children. I have a son. My oldest is 46 19 going to be 20 and I have two daughters, a 17-year-old and an 11- 44 I year-old. I have three sisters and three sister-in-laws and a mother and 2 many female friends that I care very deeply about. 3 When I found out that this was a possibility of this strip club opening 4 here in Las Cruces, 1 immediately began to look at some research as to 5 the dangers of such establishments and I came across, with the help of a 6 friend, some several articles, several research papers in regard to this. So 7 this isn't just someone's opinion or what they feel about certain things. 8 This is research that I got from an article by David Maddox. He's currently 9 working on his masters in criminal justice at New Mexico State University. 10 1 don't know if he's here tonight. If he is, please come up and talk. 11 Basically what he found in his research is that there's very little difference 12 that exists between the live course of a prostitute and a stripper and 13 stripping is often the gateway into prostitution inside the strip club. He 14 reports that sexual exploitation occurs in strip clubs between the 15 personnel and strippers and between the customers and strippers, most 16 frequently between customers and strippers. Also, he found that human 17 traffickers use strip clubs to coerce and force adult and minor females into 18 sexual acts. These are things that I don't know if the proposed proprietors 19 of the establishment have thought about these things, but once something 20 like this starts happening you can't really control it. These are factual 21 information that occurs, it's occurring throughout the country and in other 22 countries too. 23 And just to clarify a few things, I think, Ms. Montana, in regard to 24 the parking spaces, you mentioned that you know people generally go 25 together. Well, according to another research study by Eric McCord and 26 Richard Tewksbury at University of Louisville they found that patrons 27 typically arrive and leave alone. So if there are a lot of people that want to 28 go there, there's not going to be enough parking. So, there. 29 30 Scholz: Your time is up. 31 32 Goldblatt: Thank you. Thanks. 33 34 Schneider: My name is Dan Schneider. I've read the arguments and listened to the 35 arguments for the proponents of the strip club and they seem to be 36 centered around three main points: first, economic impact. It'll bring forty 37 jobs so called to the community and, sure, the club will bring some money 38 to the out of state corporation at the expense of the exploitation and 39 dignity of a few women and some sex addicts here in our community. But 40 if this is the argument why should we stop at merely topless? If we are 41 only concerned with the community and economic development, why not 42 legalize prostitution or gambling, certainly two vices that will bring in more 43 tax revenues than mere stripping can do. What also must be considered 44 is the social, moral, and civic impact. It's not as simple as a cut and dry 45 legal issue. The moral impact, the civic impact, and the social impact of 46 the adult entertainment industry, studies have shown and you've heard 45 I tonight from many experts, increase in crime, drug abuse, prostitution, 2 sexual assault, and property damage follow clubs like this proposed club. 3 The second, the First Amendment right to the freedom of speech: 4 yes, our City Attorney has briefed us on how these people are protected 5 by the courts, by our beloved First Amendment, but the people of this 6 community have rights also and so do the property owners adjacent in the 7 neighborhood. Freedom is not to be confused with license nor can 8 government committees such as this forget that when it no longer 9 considers the common good. We exhibit that what Chesterton called the 10 morbid habit of consciously sacrificing the normal to the abnormal, which 11 is what we have in this proposition. 12 Thirdly, the argument if you don't want to go there, don't go there. 13 This is probably their most compelling argument. But to that I answer, if 14 there is no social responsibility, if there is no communal aspect of living in 15 a community, then why are there high fences, why are the extra 16 landscaping, why are there no windows on this property? Why the added 17 security? Or more to the point: if what is happening inside places like this 18 proposed business is okay, then would any father in this room or 19 otherwise in his right mind not allow his daughter to work in a club like this, 20 but allow his daughter to go on a date with a gentleman so called who had 21 just spent the last hour getting lap dances and drooling over a young lady 22 in this so called gentleman's club? The answer is definitively no. We 23 thank you. 24 25 Scholz: Time. Thanks. 26 27 Lederman: Good evening. My name is Decon Paul Lederman. I serve at Holy Cross 28 Catholic Church and I just want to be in solidarity with my brother pastors 29 that are here in opposition to this club. It can bring no good. I just want to 30 add, also echo the social service professionals, people come to me with 31 issues of pornography addiction, sex addiction; these things absolutely 32 and do wreck families. This is a very poor community. We don't have the 33 counseling staff in this area to service all these people and we end up with 34 getting counseling from people who really aren't as trained as they could 35 be. This will simply overwhelm all these facilities. Please vote no. 36 37 Scholz: Thank you. 38 39 Brunette: Good evening. My name is Barbara Brunette and I consider myself a New 40 Mexican. I grew up in this state, in the northern part. I moved down, went 41 to New Mexico State University and then my husband, who also 42 graduated from New Mexico State University, joined the Navy. I've lived 43 all over the country and outside of the country and we chose Las Cruces 44 to come back to because it is something special. You don't find people 45 like this. You don't find a town like this. Our girls, we have three 46 daughters, grew up here; well, from about junior high on, we have one that 46 I grew up all the way through school. They have gone on to make great 2 lives for themselves. One is still in college. 3 My problem is, one of my daughters had a friend who had a very 4 hard upbringing. Her mother was an alcoholic. She had very little 5 guidance. She needed money. She was in a town that had a stirp club 6 and you can figure out the rest. It was so sad. And there's nothing 7 somebody can do when things like this are available. What I'm thinking 8 about is right now you have a chance to be the Jimmy Stewart in It's a 9 Wonderful Life. You can either make the difference or turn Las Cruces 10 into Pottersville. It's your decision. You will make a difference. Thank 11 you. 12 13 Scholz: Thank you. Lots of Jimmy Stewart fans obviously in the audience. I tend 14 to watch that at every Christmas. I think's it's a wonderful Christmas 15 movie. Yes, go ahead, sir. 16 17 Lassiter: Good evening. I'm Logan Lassiter. I'm 20 years old and I'm about to turn 18 21; so right around that age where this becomes really relevant. I wasn't 19 going to come up here until the young gentleman came up here talking 20 about how this establishment would affect our economy. I would like to 21 address that. 22 But first, while I was in the line another gentleman came up here 23 and said that this establishment would not wreck lives. I would encourage 24 him to do a little bit more research before making that statement. It 25 definitely does ruin some lives and due to the economy, the economy that 26 this will bring, this establishment will bring to this city, I would just like to 27 say ... I just have a question, just a rhetorical question and that is: if this 28 establishment ruins one life is that worth all the gold on the earth? Thank 29 you. 30 31 Scholz: Thank you. Yes, sir. 32 33 Kruis: My name is Ed Kruis and I'm a mental health counselor and it's been my 34 experience that many women who are participating as strippers and 35 working in topless bars have often been sexually abused. And one reason 36 they continue to go to these establishments is to repeat and try to find out 37 what this means for them and why and try to get some understanding of 38 what they went through. And this is a continuation of the exploitation of 39 women from a young, a very very young age through their adulthood and 40 often ends in tragic drug and alcohol addiction and they often lose their 41 lives that way. In addition to that, there are the men that have sexual 42 addictions and, you know, people are right: they can go someplace else 43 and get it, and they will. They'll go to EI Paso; they've been doing it for 44 years. They can go to the internet and they will. And I guess what I'm 45 asking you is to say, we're not going to be a part of this. We're not going 46 to allow our community to be a part of this. We are not going to contribute 47 1 to the exploitation of men and women for the sake of money. Thank you. 2 3 Scholz: Thank you. 4 5 Carabotta: Robert Carabotta. I commend you, the members of the Commission, for 6 your comportment and manner of respect that show to all that speak here. 7 1 believe that the community has pretty much spoken here. As a pastor 8 am sure that I speak on behalf of other pastors and families when I say 9 that we pastors and families have to labor deeply and with great difficulty 10 to bring reform and healing to those that have either been violated or done 11 regretful things as an end result of repeated voyeuristic and exhibitionist 12 activity like what both Eros is promoting and what The Bronx would 13 promote. These children, men, and women seek personal reformation. 14 Sometime the effects are so deep and vast that only a little change is 15 experienced despite the efforts of both counselors, pastors, and families 16 because those effected find the pain or shame of recalling those 17 experiences is too much for them to handle and they leave the difficult 18 road of healing. We do not want to be a people that can be bought to do 19 or permit wrong.. We know that not everyone is religious, but we hope that 20 everybody cares about the emotional and social well-being of their family 21 members, friends, and neighbors. With engagement and exhibitionists 22 and voyeuristic activity already an intrinsic area has been transgressed. 23 Without morality leaders, government leaders, parents, judges cannot 24 make any decisions. And journalism by the way would cease. Thank you. 25 26 Scholz: Thank you. I'm sorry, one of my Commissioners just told me that people 27 are pushing on the light switches, please don't do that. That's the reason. 28 Okay. There are seats, by the way, if you want to sit down. Yes, sir, go 29 ahead. 30 31 Miranda: My name is Pastor Jorge Miranda. I come from the community of 32 Chaparral, New Mexico. As a pastor of ministers in Juarez and I see 33 various or I should say more than enough issues with the whole strip bar 34 dilemma. As I go into Juarez I've never met a stripper or an employee of 35 a strip bar who lives a happy life. They may start off in bartending. Before 36 1 know it they're stripping and next thing I know they're prostituting 37 themselves for drugs, alcohol, or any other things. I advise you not to 38 allow this. We're trying to minister out to the country into Mexico where 39 people stop doing these things. Our own nation is allowing these things to 40 happen. If you look at divorce rates when a strip club comes in, it's 41 incredible. The women get demoralized completely. This is not a matter 42 not only of morality but also of family communion. Families coming 43 together and only a strip bar would separate all these things. Women are 44 becoming more independent in the way of, "Well, if you don't like the way 1 45 do things I could just go and strip," and then we cause or we allow things 46 to come in as divorces, again drug abuse, alcoholism. This will only 48 1 impact in a hugely negative way Las Cruces. Thank you. 2 3 Scholz: Thank you. Yes, ma'am. 4 5 Eiceman: Hello. My name is Mary Eiceman and I'm a 32 year resident of Las 6 Cruces. And let me preface my remarks by saying I love the Constitution. 7 1 am an immigrant from Canada, a first generation American citizen and 8 fell in love with the U.S. Constitution, so I am not here to try and discuss 9 the Constitution for you or to try to make you make a decision that would 10 be contrary to the Constitution. 11 Actually, I'm here to encourage you to take your place to make a 12 decision where the Constitution allows you to protect the community that 13 you represent. And have listened to the remarks of the law enforcement 14 representative here who said that implicitly the law enforcement 15 community of Las Cruces understands that there will be an increased risk 16 of violence, of abuse, of prostitution, of drug activity, and other illegal 17 activity, and they are well prepared and ready to increase their 18 enforcement and their diligence looking out for us there. But why? Why 19 would we force that upon our law enforcement community who takes such 20 good care of us as it is to have to increase the stress on their jobs and 21 their goal to protect us? So I'd like you to consider that in your decision, 22 that if they implicitly understand what the results of this strip establishment 23 may be. Then we can side with them by denying the permit for this place. 24 Thank you. 25 26 Scholz: Okay. Thank you. 27 28 Esquivel: Good evening., My name is Veronica Esquivel and I am a woman and 29 think as a woman I think I speak for most of these women here and I think 30 it's ... this strip club will be bad for Las Cruces. Thank you. 31 32 Scholz: Thank you. 33 34 Austin: Good evening. I'm Terri Austin. I'm a schoolteacher. I've taught for 19 35 years and daily we work extremely hard to teach our children good 36 character. Now we have the seven habits that we're working on. Our first 37 habit is proactive. And we are teaching kindergarteners, 5 year olds, to be 38 proactive. To choose the mood that you'll choose for that day or attitude. 39 We're teaching our children one thing and then I see something else 40 coming around. Our teenagers, our middle schoolers are being taught the 41 DARE program which is to stay away from drugs and alcohol. We spend 42 a lot of money on these programs and it seems like we're telling our 43 children this is what you need to do, but you know we might be doing 44 something else over here. So for the public schools or at least for me 1 45 hope this doesn't happen. 46 I'd also like to encourage businesses to come into Las Cruces. We 49 I once owned the Putt Putt Golf. It had bumper cars, go-carts, all kinds of 2 fun things for people to go do. Maybe the business owners could, if this 3 doesn't work out for them which I hope it doesn't, maybe they could open 4 a Wet 'N Wild for us in Las Cruces so we don't have to drive down there to 5 Bobo's and Adventure Zone and everything else. I would like to 6 encourage them to invest their money in Las Cruces but let's put in a 7 business that all of Las Cruces can enjoy. Thank you. 8 9 Scholz: Thank you. 10 11 Burke: Hi, my name's Esther Burke and I've been a long time resident here. I'm 12 thinking of the oppositions which would be the people that want the strip 13 club there, what their arguments are and I think they have some good 14 arguments. They have every right to be there, there's personal freedom. 15 They are the minority perhaps represented here. Why shouldn't we allow 16 them the freedoms that everybody else has? But I think what's at risk is, 17 and I think this makes sense to you: virtue. And that's what we need to 18 fight for is virtue which is not a personal opinion, I believe. People that 19 say that virtue is personal opinion are overlooking the obvious, like 20 someone mentioned the abnormal instead of the normal. I think that's 21 what's at risk here and I'd like you to please stand up for virtue and fight 22 for that. Thank you. 23 24 Scholz: Thank you. 25 26 May: Good evening. My name is Heidi May. I would like to go ahead and start 27 off by saying I am a single mother of three kids, of three girls. I am here 28 all the way from EI Paso to tell you: don't do this. The reason behind this, 29 you're exposing yourself to more violence, prostitution, alcoholism, and 30 DWIs. I mean what happens to that person that leaves that bar after it 31 closes down. They're exposing other people to DWIs. Many people are 32 going to be exposed to dying even though they had nothing to do with the 33 club. 34 Second of all, like the pastor mentioned, I've never seen a stripper 35 or someone who works as a stripper happy. They are not a happy person. 36 Like I said, I am a single mother of three girls and I would rather my 16 37 year old daughter fight to get a scholarship or to be able to attend school 38 for herself or for something that she's doing instead of saying, you know 39 what, I'm going to go make $500 tonight and I don't have to serve tables 40 for$2.35 an hour. Thank you. 41 42 Scholz: Thank you. 43 44 McDaniel: I'm Loren McDaniel. I come to you not in support of this club, but as a 45 business owner. It is the right of any individual to open a business and do 46 what they want as long as it is allowed by the law. If the community truly 50 I does not want this to happen, the business will fail. That will be the end 2 result of whether or not this community wants this establishment. Not 3 whether or not it's moral or immoral or choices that people have to make, 4 it is by the way each individuals' choice to not take the easy road. Life is 5 not easy. I've been in business since 2002. 1 took over for my father. I'm 6 third generation in construction. I've worked hard my whole life. And my 7 only complaint is, this person has a right to open a business. It might not 8 be a very popular one. But it is his right to be able to open it. He is 9 following the letter of the law and it should be allowed. I don't agree with 10 it, but it should still be allowed. Thank you 11 12 Scholz: Thank you. 13 14 Hollingshead: Jack Hollingshead. I'm going to make two statements. I was dead once. 15 I'm a Christian. I am not religious. I left home because my dad was an 16 alcoholic. I hitchhiked to California; didn't have a dime. God said I'll 17 supply your needs. I paid cash for my last two houses. I married my wife. 18 1 take her a box of chocolates home and some roses and when you've had 19 the best, you don't need the rest and I've been married for 56 years. 20 21 Baca: My name is Benny Baca and I'm proud to be a citizen of Las Cruces. 1 22 was born here and I'll probably die here. And I just want to say that Las 23 Cruces has an image to protect. It has a beautiful image, a proud image, 24 a sunshine image. And a business like this would forever mar this kind of 25 image. Thank you. 26 27 Scholz: Thank you. 28 29 Baca: And I would like to also stand here on behalf of this lady here who is going 30 to speak in Spanish and I'll be interpreting. 31 32 MS. MARTINEZ ONLY SPOKE SPANISH, WHICH WAS TRANSLATED BY MR. BACA. 33 34 Martinez: My name is Juanita Martinez. 35 36 Scholz: That's funny. That sounded an awful lot like Spanish rather than English, 37 sir. I don't speak Spanish. 38 39 Martinez: My name is Juanita Martinez. 40 41 Scholz: Yes, I got that much. 42 43 Martinez: I also have two kids who have special needs and I really don't like what's 44 going to happen here. I am a widow. I'm also a pastor and I represent the 45 church here in Las Cruces. I am a pastor here at Temple Bethel and it is 46 one of the first few churches that was established here from over 50 51 I years. I think the city needs some education, art, and culture and sports. 2 I'm a pastor of this church and ... we are very involved in government in 3 the city and we work hand in hand with this community. We've invested 4 many hundreds of dollars and a lot of effort and counseling and to 5 promote moral values, and personal value, and rehabilitation of children, 6 young people, and families. In this city, has taken a lot of (inaudible) from 7 the first family, even now, has fame of being a peaceful city. 8 9 Scholz: Okay, can we wind it up? You're out of time. 10 11 Martinez: Thank you. 12 13 Scholz: Thank you very much. Okay, I see two more speakers here. That's all 14 we're going to allow tonight and then we're going to take a break. Oh, I'm 15 sorry, wheelchair, I didn't see you, sir. Yeah, you'll be the third. Go 16 ahead, sir. 17 18 Hulbert: My name is Mike Hulbert. I own CSR Garage. People have talked before 19 me and have said they do have a right to do business in this town and 1 20 don't disagree with that. What I do disagree with is the consequences that 21 I've had to take care of because they have come into my community 22 meaning the adult bookstore. I would ask their attorney that pretty much 23 told you that you do not have a choice because of the First Amendment. 24 It's what I understood her to say. I would ask her and the people filing to 25 do this, to please come, not every day, not every night, but come stand at 26 my shop and go out and tell people that are parked in front of it, "Can 1 27 help you? It's 10:30 at night, why are you here?" "I'm waiting for a friend." 28 Or maybe walk around my parking lot and pick up the black goody bags 29 that come from the adult store that blow in my lot. Or to help me pick up 30 the broken beer bottles that have been in my cul-de-sac that fill the 31 entrance to my business; or to pick them up out in my landscaping; or, to 32 quote a guy three weeks ago when I came in late at night, "What are you 33 doing over there?" Guy says, "Is this your business?" I said, "Absolutely." 34 He says, "Well, I was going to take a piss until you drove up." That's just 35 some of the things I've got to put up with over there. 36 They're right: they have a right to do business. But what gives them 37 the right to come in to destroy my property, my business, and to dictate to 38 you and the city what you have to do for them because of their 39 constitutional right? Do they have the right to degrade my business, my 40 property? You've heard from four or five of my customers tonight that 41 have come in and protested against this. Now the only thing I ask you is: 42 will they allow this to go in their front yard because it is going in my front 43 yard? I do have customers that walk around when their car is getting 44 worked on. Just ask them. They want to come over and help me scoop 45 the beer bottles. Did I forget to mention, I have picked up used condoms 46 in front of my business before too? They do have the right to go in 52 1 business there, they do have the right to make money, but they do not 2 have the right for me to get on their boat to lose money because of their 3 constitutional rights. Thank you for your time. 4 5 Scholz: Thank you. 6 7 DeLeon: Hi. My name is Valenzia DeLeon and I'm here and I want to speak for my 8 generation. I'm a freshman at NMSU and throughout my high school 9 career I've heard a lot of my peers say it's boring here you know and 10 there's really nothing to do here and all they're influenced with is alcohol 11 and drugs and sex. And I would like to ask you guys: would you rather put 12 up a strip club for their entertainment when they get older or would you 13 rather put up like a Bobo's here or Adventure Zone here for a better 14 influence and a happier entertainment? Thank you. 15 16 Scholz: Thank you. Okay. 17 18 Smith: My name is Jim Smith. I'm a 68-year-old father, grandfather, and great 19 grandfather. I have a 42-year-old daughter who worked in a place like this 20 when she was 19-20 years old, claimed to be 21. Within two years she 21 had chlamydia which took away all of her female organs. She couldn't 22 have children. She wanted them, but she couldn't have them because of 23 an establishment like these people want to put in. Now I just moved to 24 Las Cruces in November, but I've grown to love this city because it is a 25 good clean town. And I think you're making a mistake if you allow 26 something like this to come because I know personally what it does to 27 people. Thank you. 28 29 Scholz: Thank you. You're on. 30 31 Millen: I'm Gary Millen. Well, let's see. Well, it's a fact that any business is good 32 for economic growth, revenue, and jobs. That's a fact. The business 33 shouldn't ... I noticed that it was one of the stipulations that the business 34 has to pay for the no parking signs. That doesn't seem right that they 35 have to pay for no parking signs when there are four other businesses on 36 that street. 1 think that ought to be shared, personally. 37 Secondly the free market will determine if the business stays or not, 38 like the gentleman earlier was saying. Businesses aren't going to stay if 39 they're not prosperous. If it's a prosperous business then it'll stay. If it's 40 prosperous then that's because the people in general enjoy being there 41 and they utilize the business. If they're not profitable then they'll leave and 42 then other people who don't like the business, their wishes will come true. 43 I've met lots of dancers from other cities that had dance clubs and never 44 met one that was forced into their chosen line of work or hated their job as 45 some of these people are claiming here tonight. And the people who are 46 afraid that their lives are going to get changed or what not from it, 53 I nobody's forcing these people to go to the club and no one's forcing them 2 to even drive by the club, so if they don't drive by it and they don't go to it, 3 then it's kind of out of sight out of mind because there's really not that 4 much over there. 5 1 was in the military and one of the things that I stood for in the 6 military was to defend the freedoms of Americans and it is every 7 American's right to own a business and prosper and pursue happiness 8 and liberty, and I think that that's what the council here should consider 9 and just allow the business a chance to try. And like I said, if they fail, 10 they fail, if they succeed, they succeed. And we have to ignore the moral 11 righteousness that was an awful lot of in here tonight and it's your job to 12 keep it a simple regulation based and emotion free decision as to whether 13 or not the business can be allowed to operate or not. Thank you. 14 15 Scholz: Thank you. All right, I'm going to take a ... we're going to have a ten 16 minute recess here so everybody can get up and stretch and I can drink a 17 little water and clear my throat, and then we will have discussion by the 18 Commission and we'll make a decision. Okay, we'll be back in ten 19 minutes. Thank you. 20 21 COMMISSION MEETING BREAK OF 10 MINUTES. 22 23 Scholz: Folks, if you'll find your seats, please, we'll resume. Please take your 24 seats. Okay, now the Commissioners will discuss and, Commissioner 25 Shipley, you've been taking careful notes. I've been taking notes. I noticed 26 Commissioner Beard scribbling here and there so I think we're well 27 prepared. The other Commissioner just had his knife out, I'm not sure 28 that's a good sign. I hope he was trimming his nails or something. All 29 right, Commissioner Shipley, kick it off. 30 31 Shipley: First of all I'd like to say to everybody that came tonight, this was handled 32 very appropriately. This is the way it should be done. We certainly 33 appreciate your opinion, your input, that's why we hold public meetings. 34 This is the whole purpose for doing this. So I say personally thank you all 35 for coming and handling yourselves very business-like and very 36 professionally. Thank you. 37 Obviously there are lots of issues that came up. There was a 38 question about the church at 316 Southgate Court. Now, my question 39 would be, is there ... within the City a church has to register, has to buy a 40 business license to operate, is there such a business at 316 South Court? 41 42 Montana: Mr. Chair, Commissioner, there is not. I've been to that site, I looked at it. 43 It's a warehouse. It's permitted as a warehouse. I looked at the business 44 license for that property and there is not a business license for any 45 occupant at that property at this time. 46 54 1 Shipley: Okay. Thank you. The second question I had was again about the ruling. 2 There was a question about a bar and a club at the same location. It is 3 permitted to have both a liquor license and dancing at an establishment, is 4 that correct? 5 6 Montana: There are two different zoning use classifications. One is a bar with 7 dancing and one is a bar without dancing. The dancing refers to, 8 believe, patrons dancing rather than entertainment by employees. That is 9 my understanding. 10 11 Shipley: So when they refer to second 38-33 G, retail land uses, that's where that's 12 coming from, I think. 13 14 Montana: Yes, there's one section for a bar with dancing and one ... 15 16 Shipley: But this falls under 38-54 1 believe, is that correct? 17 18 Montana: Adult entertainment. 19 20 Shipley: Yes. 21 22 Montana: That's a particular use; but there's also a particular use for the bar. 23 24 Shipley: Okay. 25 26 Montana: And they both could be allowed. 27 28 Shipley: Okay, the other question was: does this place the Eros business in conflict 29 because it is located? That's preexisting conditions, so is it allowable to 30 place something that close to that facility? 31 32 Montana: The Eros has a Special Use Permit. If this new adult entertainment 33 Special Use Permit with the liquor license is permitted next door, it is 34 within 500 feet and that would place the Eros establishment as a legal 35 nonconforming use. 36 37 Shipley: But the key is it would be a legal nonconforming use. 38 39 Montana: That is correct, it is my understanding. 40 41 Shipley: Okay, thank you. I have no further questions at this time. I'll defer till 42 later. 43 44 Scholz: Sure. Commissioner Crane. 45 46 Crane: Well, I'm going to think out loud here. 55 1 2 Scholz: Yes, go ahead. 3 4 Crane: It's going to start really soon. I believe I'm going on my fifth year as a 5 Commissioner for District 4 which happens to be where this enterprise is 6 going, expected to be situated. I think this is probably the most difficult 7 decision that's come before the Commission, in my view. I usually come 8 in here expecting to weigh conflicting rights; the rights of a person to set 9 up his yard as he wants versus the right of the City to set standards for a 10 house, for example, and much of that has come up, and are among more 11 difficult decisions and we have a conflict here. 12 My few forays into commercial sex during my life which did include 13 a couple of years in the military, but that was on a post which had 3,500 14 men and 3,500 women and I'm not going to tell you where it is, but there is 15 a museum there now and so commercial sex is not much of an issue for 16 us then. But I have found it to be as somebody said, a sad pathetic 17 business which degrades everybody associated with it including the 18 people that run it. I don't think there's anything good to be said about it. It 19 does not elevate in any way the quality of life of anyone. 20 But to look at it technically from the point of view of a Planning and 21 Zoning Commissioner, a great deal has to be said to take a narrow view 22 and saying that this enterprise is legal and it meets all of the requirements 23 of the City. And the decision as to whether it's appropriate to have an 24 enterprise like that in the City belongs to our elected representatives, that 25 would be the Councilors and we, of course, are not the City Council 26 But people have spoken with great eloquence here about taking a 27 broader view of the issues and I know that we've done it several times 28 before when we have approved or disapproved something, sometimes 29 against the recommendation of staff because we took a wider view and 30 tried to look at the issue from the viewpoint of the health of the whole City 31 rather than whether the applicant was within his rights to ask for what he 32 asked for. 33 And I think this is one of the situations in which I'm going to have to 34 regard this as a quality of life issue, Mr. Chairman, and while recognizing 35 that in a narrow view this application should be approved, to take a 36 broader view of the health of the community I think I will not vote for it. If 37 we had a strip club in this town already as we have the Eros place, 1 38 wouldn't worry about it greatly. It's a pathetic enterprise. But the fact that 39 we don't have one is a rather different situation and I don't feel that I'd 40 have a clear conscious, frankly, if I went ahead and approved this 41 enterprise. That's my view as of the moment. Thank you. 42 43 Scholz: Commissioner Beard. 44 45 Beard: That was well said. Thank you very much. I agree with you totally. I'd 46 like to ask legal a question. Seeing how this is a Special Use Permit, what 56 1 like to ask legal a question. Seeing how this is a Special Use Permit, what 2 kinds of conditions would have to occur in order to revoke this special 3 permit? 4 5 Babington: Commissioner let me ask you a question, see if I can understand your 6 question correctly. I think it's premised on if the establishment is given a 7 Special Use Permit and then later on they do something, what would 8 cause them to lose it? 9 10 Beard: That's correct. 11 12 Babington: Yes, sir. And so what happens is, when you look at the Special Use 13 Permit it basically sets certain things and the last one is it has to be legally 14 in compliance with the law. So, for example; if prostitution was promoted 15 by the business, for example, and what I mean promoted, they became 16 actively involved in the act of prostitution and doing that kind of thing. It 17 could be declared a nuisance and the City could then take action against 18 this particular establishment under our nuisance provisions. So it's really 19 based on what happens to the business and the involvement of the 20 business owners whether or not they could ever lose their Special Use 21 Permit. So, conceptually, you could do it. You become involved in some 22 type of criminal activity, you become a nuisance, and the City would be in 23 a position to take action. We'd have to take action against that particular 24 business. 25 26 Beard: Thank you. 27 28 Babington: Yes, sir. 29 30 Scholz: Okay, other questions? 31 32 Beard: One of my concerns is when we approve daycare centers, for instance, 33 we look at the neighborhood and how we are impacting the neighborhood. 34 If we're impacting the neighborhood adversely, then we vote it down. If 35 the traffic is worse or dangerous or we think it's going to be dangerous, we 36 vote it down. I had the same concern here in that the other property 37 owners are going to be adversely effected, I believe. Weighing that 38 against a business' right to start a business, is a hard decision. So I really 39 do share my concerns with the property owners around there and I don't 40 know how to address it, to tell you the truth. 41 42 Scholz: All right. I have a couple of questions: there were a couple of points 43 raised. One of them was about the distance from Burn Lake to the 44 property. Do you recall how that was measured? We probably have slide 45 on that, don't we? 46 57 I Montana: Yes. The City has a geographic information system, GIS system, that 2 inputs the database, inputs the daycares, the churches, the schools, and 3 the parks and park facilities. 4 5 Scholz: Okay. 6 7 Montana: So I used that and they have, the GIS has a measuring device. 8 9 Scholz: Yes. 10 11 Montana: So I used, as the crow flies. 12 13 Scholz: Okay. 14 15 Montana: So I used that measuring device to measure the distance from the site, the 16 property line, the closest property line to the closest property line of the 17 target. 18 19 Scholz: Okay, good. So it is 1,531 feet. I see that. 20 21 Montana: Yes, property line, closest property line. 22 23 Scholz: Okay. Well, one of the people was concerned about that. The other 24 question, or the other issue that was raised that I recall from my notes was 25 about the liquor laws and there was a gentleman who was very concerned 26 about, you know, are the liquor laws being effectively enforced? I don't 27 believe that's our purview. Does the City enforce state liquor laws? 28 29 Montana: No, we do not. 30 31 Scholz: Okay. 32 33 Montana: We make sure that if they need a liquor license they register with us, the 34 business registration for the liquor license, and I'm going to look to ... 35 yeah. 36 37 Scholz: Yes, Mr. Babington. 38 39 Babington: Yes sir, what happens is an applicant would apply to the state for a liquor 40 license. They would do the background checks and that kind of thing. It 41 then comes to City Council for approval. We would either deny it or 42 approve it and then it goes back to the state process. So we're involved in 43 it and City Council reviews all liquor applications for the City of Las 44 Cruces. 45 46 Scholz: But the idea is that the state does background checks and things like that? 58 1 2 Babington: Yes sir. 3 4 Scholz: Okay. I think that was a concern that was also raised. Okay. That was 5 two items I had. I had another one about ... I don't know if we discussed 6 the hours of this, what are the hours that this business is to be open? 7 8 Montana: On the application they state they will be open from 9 AM to 2 AM. 9 10 Scholz: Okay, I see the attorney is shaking her head there. 11 AM to 2 PM. 11 12 Montana: 2 AM. 13 14 Scholz: To 2 AM, yes, right. 15 16 Montana: I've got it here somewhere. 17 18 Scholz: Okay, I wanted to get that straight. All right, gentleman. Other 19 discussion? Go ahead. 20 21 Beard: I'd like to propose changes to the recommended conditions of approval. 22 First of all I think there was a good point made that number 2: there shall 23 be no outdoor special events or outdoor entertainment activities permitted 24 on the premises in order to mitigate potential noise impacts. I don't know 25 why that person's being held to that standard and nobody else is, so 1 26 recommend that that be struck out. 27 28 Scholz: Okay. We can make that as an amendment. 29 30 Beard: I'd like to make another one. 31 32 Scholz: Okay, go ahead. 33 34 Beard: I would recommend that the applicant shall ensure that all property 200 35 feet from the applicant's property shall remain clear of trash on a daily 36 basis. 37 38 Scholz: Okay, so you're asking the potential occupant to be a trash policeman, a 39 garbage man or something like that? 40 41 Beard: Yes, I am. 42 43 Scholz: Okay, yeah we can insert those. Commissioner Shipley. 44 45 Shipley: The other thing is when I went out to do my site visit to this site. I looked 46 at the site but I also looked at the Eros site and they have the ... this is a 59 I something about a board fence which is what the fence is that Eros has 2 and it's terrible, dilapidated, etc. I would think a rockwall would be the only 3 acceptable thing here for a couple of reasons: number 1, it would preclude 4 anybody from taking a pair of sheers and cutting their way through it to go 5 in the back way or whatever. And I think a rockwall is a lot ... handles the 6 noise, keeps the noise in if there were any noise. So I thought that ought 7 to be added to the conditions as well, as opposed to saying a rockwall or 8 opaque fence, just say a rockwall will be the only acceptable. That's 9 number 4. 10 11 Scholz: All right. 12 13 Shipley: And the other thing, in the discussion of the building you said there's only 14 two access points, but there are actually five, there are two emergency. 15 16 Montana: Emergency, yes. 17 18 Shipley: And those ought to be controlled somehow so that no one can prop open 19 a door and let someone come in a side entrance. That is what happened 20 with the theater up in Aurora, is they propped the side door open and 21 came in. And you know that is an absolute non-starter for me I think that's 22 a lesson we learned the hard way and I don't ever what to have to do that 23 again. 24 25 Scholz: I want to ask legal a question here. We can, as I recall from our 26 instructions, we can add conditions, is that right? 27 28 Babington: Sir, could you repeat your question. 29 30 Scholz: I said we can add conditions to this application, is that right? 31 32 Babington: I would be reluctant to say you can add conditions. I mean they really 33 have to be tied to the property and to persons and their safety. So if it's 34 related to that with a special use permit you may be able to do that. 35 36 Scholz: Okay. All right, well we'll have to consider that then. Okay, any other 37 discussion, any other questions? Yes, Ms. Montana, I'm sorry you had 38 your hand up and ... 39 40 Montana: Well, I wanted to ask for clarification Mr. Chairman from Commissioner 41 Shipley that you're aware that the applicant is suggesting to build the 42 screen wall only on the Amador frontage and not the entire perimeter? So 43 it would just be on the Amador street frontage of the property, is what 44 they're proposing. 45 46 Scholz: Go ahead, Commissioner Shipley. 60 I Scholz: Go ahead, Commissioner Shipley. 2 3 Shipley: No, I think it has to be on the sides as well because that's number 1 is you 4 don't want someone going over into the other property, adjacent 5 properties. It doesn't work. And the fence, you know, the screen wire 6 going from Eros onto that lot is just, it's insufficient. So it needs to be a 7 wall around that property. 8 9 Scholz: Commissioner Crane, your light is on. You had another comment or 10 question? 11 12 Crane: Yes, I do have a couple of points. Could you please put up on the screen 13 the choices before the Commission? I don't see them quite clearly in the 14 information we have. Okay. Number 2 says vote yes to approve the 15 request with amended and/or new conditions. So it appears, Mr. 16 Babington, that we are allowed to amend or add conditions. 17 18 Babington: Yes sir, if they're related to safety and property. I mean the conditions on 19 a Special Use Permit are pretty well set out. So when the Commission 20 decides to add additional conditions, if you will, they're really supposed to 21 be related to property and safety of the property or individuals there. 22 23 Crane: So, in other words, there'd be something like the ones that the staff has 24 already given us on page 9: findings for approval, pardon me, 25 recommended conditions of approval. 26 27 Babington: Yes sir. I mean the first one there would be the signs. Basically we're 28 saying, "Hey, we want to prevent rigs from going there." 29 30 Crane: Right. 31 32 Babington: Okay. The noise abatement is related, if you will, to safety with respect to 33 outdoor events, at least that was justification at that time. 34 35 Crane: Okay, all right. I understand. So it's no parking would be permitted on 36 Westgate Court and I have the impression that the City has in mind 37 Westgate Court, the east side of it from Westgate Street over to the site of 38 the club, right? 39 40 Montana: Mr. Chair, Commissioner, for the whole cul-de-sac so there would be no 41 parking for the entire cul-de-sac on the east side. 42 43 Crane: So the idea is to discourage on-street parking of big rigs among other 44 things. 45 46 Montana: Yes. All vehicles. 61 I Crane: All right. Now I would suggest that that same prohibition be put on the 2 opposite side, the west side cul-de-sac because it's not going to be much 3 of an effort for somebody to park there and walk across the street. And 4 also, I'm concerned about the prospect of a 30-foot tall sign saying strip 5 club: Bronx Strip Club. Maybe if it just says "The Bronx" is okay; but I 6 would like to see the size of that sign no higher than roof, the ridgeline of 7 the roof of the building that would be visible from Amador. 8 9 Scholz: Mr. Babington, you have a point. 10 11 Babington: Yes sir. The applicant has basically indicated that they would probably be 12 willing to make certain concessions with respect to, I believe, the rockwall 13 and also the clean-up. Perhaps Ms. Wootton could just briefly address the 14 Commission about those particular stipulations. 15 16 Scholz: Okay. Ms. Wootton. 17 18 Wootton: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. Yes ... 19 20 Scholz: Stay on the mike please. 21 22 Wootton: My client has no problem with putting a rockwall all around the property. 23 That's actually their intent. It's not what they were required to do by staff 24 in terms of the application, but they are willing to stipulate to that. They 25 also have no problem with cleaning up, clearly just the fronts of the 26 business that are accessible to the extent that those owners want that. 27 We could have issues with trespass so that's the only question there. 28 Also, they have no problem with, they have no intention of putting any sign 29 except on the building itself and not on the Amador side. That's their 30 intension anyway. Also, the emergency access; they have every intention 31 of securing that with an alarm. So all of those issues there are fine with 32 stipulating to those conditions. 33 34 Scholz: Okay. Any other questions from Ms. Wootton? 35 36 Wootton: Thank you. 37 38 Scholz: Thank you very much. So, Commissioner Beard, did you want to place 39 those conditions in or are we going to ...? 40 41 Beard: We can vote on it. 42 43 Scholz: Okay. Why don't you read your amendment then? 44 45 Beard: I'm going to try to incorporate all of them. 46 62 1 2 Scholz: Well, it might be simpler to do them one at a time. 3 4 Crane: Can you ... were you planning to incorporate the ones I made, 1 5 suggested? 6 7 Beard: Yours was? 8 9 Crane: That the parking be extended ... parking prohibition to the other side. 10 11 Beard: Yes. Definitely. 12 13 Crane: And no tall sign. Okay. 14 15 Beard: Okay. The applicant shall ... you want me to read them out? 16 17 Scholz: Yes, please. 18 19 Beard: The applicant shall pay the cost to the City for installing no parking signs 20 along Westgate Court and that would include both the east and west cul- 21 de-sacs. The signs would be approved by the City of Las Cruces and in 22 accordance with the City of Las Cruces Design Standards. The signs 23 would be installed prior to operation of the club. The applicants shall post 24 a large visible warning sign at the entrance of the club advertising, 25 advising drivers that parking is prohibited along Westgate Court and 26 vehicles parked there will be towed at owner's expense and shall urge 27 patrons not to park on Westgate Court. 28 29 Scholz: So you're just installing your language in that first condition. 30 31 Beard: Yes. 32 33 Scholz: Okay. 34 35 Beard: Also, that we strike number 2 condition, there shall be no ... 36 37 Scholz: I do want to vote on these separately. 38 39 Beard: Oh, you want to? 40 41 Scholz: Yes I do. Okay, you've heard the first one. Is there a motion to approve it, 42 to incorporate it into the first condition? 43 44 Crane: I move that Commissioner Beard's additional condition be approved. 45 46 Scholz: Okay, is there a second? 63 1 2 Shipley: I move it as ... or I second it. 3 4 Scholz: Second it. Okay. All those in favor say aye. 5 6 All: Aye. 7 8 Scholz: Okay, it carries. All right, your second one was ...? 9 10 Beard: Strike number 2. There shall be no outdoor special events or outdoor 11 entertainment activities permitted on the premises in order to mitigate 12 potential noise impacts. 13 14 Scholz: Okay, and your reasoning, as I recall, was that this is allowed to other 15 enterprises and we're being you know ... 16 17 Beard: Yeah, I think it was too selective to this one particular applicant. 18 19 Scholz: Okay. I'll entertain a motion to strike number 2 as a condition. 20 21 Shipley: So moved. 22 23 Scholz: Okay, is there a second? 24 25 Crane: Second it. 26 27 Scholz: Okay. It's moved and seconded. All those in favor of striking number 2 28 say aye. 29 30 Shipley: Aye. 31 32 Beard: Aye. 33 34 Crane: Nay. 35 36 Scholz: And I'm also going to vote nay so that item stays. Okay. Yeah, in the 37 case of a tie the motion fails. Sorry. All right, what was the third item, 38 Commissioner Beard? 39 40 Beard: You want to go through all of these even though we don't make changes. 41 42 Scholz: No. 43 44 Beard: Okay. 45 46 Scholz: No. The conditions are already stated, we're just working on ... 64 1 2 Beard: Okay, number 4: a rockwall as proposed by the applicant, and what we're 3 doing is striking out the opaque fence, by the applicant, and in compliance 4 with the City of Las Cruces Zoning and Building Regulations shall be built 5 along the Amador Avenue frontage to screen the site from Amador 6 Avenue and any adjacent or effected properties, which would mean 7 surrounding the place. 8 9 Scholz: All right, is that ... let me ask Legal for a clarification on that. Does that 10 make sense? 11 12 Babington: Yes, sir. As indicated by the applicant's counsel and then your discussion 13 here, the intent of the Commission is to have a rockwall entirely 14 surrounding the property as I understand it. 15 16 Scholz: Okay. Thank you. 17 18 Babington: By taking out opaque, you're doing that. 19 20 Scholz: Yeah, there we go. Okay. So I'll entertain a motion. 21 22 Shipley: Move to approve. 23 24 Scholz: Move to approve. 25 26 Shipley: Move to approve the motion. 27 28 Scholz: Is there a second? 29 30 Crane: Seconded. 31 32 Scholz: Okay all those in favor say aye. 33 34 All Aye. 35 36 Scholz: Okay. It's approved. Thank you. Any other, you wanted to enter one 37 more condition, as I recall. What was it? 38 39 Beard: Yes. Right. It would be number 6: the applicant shall ensure that all 40 property 200 feet from the applicant's property shall remain clean of trash 41 on a daily basis. And I don't think that that would include Amador Avenue. 42 43 Scholz: Okay. Is there a motion to accept? 44 45 Crane: I move that additional condition be installed in the ... 46 65 I Scholz: Yeah, you just move it. That's fine. Okay, is there a second? 2 3 Shipley: Second. 4 5 Scholz: Okay, all those in favor of including this as number 6 of the conditions. 6 Mr. Kyle has a question or a comment on that. 7 8 Kyle: Mr. Chairman, point of clarification. I just want it clear so that we don't 9 have any misconception. As Ms. Wootton indicated her clients have 10 stipulated that particular condition, but I would like it clarified that it's the 11 property owners within 200 feet that grant them permission, in fact, to do 12 that so we don't have trespassing issues or other ... I wouldn't want 13 somebody to say, "No you can't do that," then they'd be in violation of a 14 condition you put on the SUP and it could potentially be confusion. 15 16 Scholz: All right. So you suggesting that we insert the language, "With the 17 permission of the property owners?" 18 19 Kyle: Correct. 20 21 Scholz: Okay. With the permission of the adjacent property owners. Yeah, I think 22 that's good. Okay, does that satisfy you, Commissioner Crane? 23 24 Crane: Yes sir. 25 26 Scholz: Okay. 27 28 Shipley: Move to approve the condition as read. 29 30 Scholz: As amended, yes. Is there a second? 31 32 Crane: Seconded. 33 34 Scholz: Okay, it's been moved and seconded. All those in favor then of this 35 condition as amended. 36 37 All: Aye. 38 39 Scholz: Okay. All right anything else before we vote on the issue itself, the case 40 itself? All right, I'll entertain a motion to approve Case No. SUP-12-03. 41 42 Shipley: So moved. 43 44 Scholz: Okay, it's been moved. Is there a second? 45 46 Beard: Second. 66 1 2 Scholz: Okay, I'll call the role. Commissioner Shipley. 3 4 Shipley: Nay, findings, discussion, and site visit. 5 6 Scholz: Commissioner Crane. 7 8 Crane: Nay, findings, discussion, and site visit. 9 10 Scholz: Commissioner Beard. 11 12 Beard: Nay, findings, discussions, and site visit. 13 14 Scholz: Okay, and the Chair votes aye for findings, discussion, and site visit. So 15 the motion failed 3:1. Thank you. Thank you, folks. 16 17 VIII. OTHER BUSINESS - NONE 18 19 Scholz: Mr. Kyle, is there any other business before the Commission? 20 21 Kyle: Mr. Chairman, no. 22 23 IX. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 24 25 26 X. STAFF ANNOUNCEMENTS 27 28 Scholz: Any staff announcements? Nothing. 29 30 XI. ADJOURNMENT 31 32 Scholz: Okay. We are adjourned at 9:32. Thank you. 33 34 35 , 36 /(� 12- 3 bz 37 Chairperson Nrl 38 T) 67