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11-27-2012 YM City of las Cruces® P E O P L E N E L P I N O P E O P L E PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AGENDA The following agenda will be considered by the Planning and Zoning Commission of the City of Las Cruces, New Mexico, at a public hearing held on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 beginning at 6:00 p.m. at City Hall, 700 N. Main Street, Las Cruces, New Mexico. The City of Las Cruces does not discriminate on the basis of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, color, ancestry, serious medical condition, national origin, age, or disability in the provision of services. The City of Las Cruces will make reasonable accommodations for a qualified individual who wishes to attend this meeting. Please notify the City Community Development Department at least 48 hours before the meeting by calling 528-3043 (voice) or 1-800-659-8331 (TTY) if accommodations are necessary. This document can be made available in alternative formats by calling the same numbers listed above. 1. CALL TO ORDER II. CONFLICT OF INTEREST At the opening of each meeting, the chairperson shall ask if any member on the Commission or City staff has any known conflict of interest with any item on the agenda. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES 1. October 23, 2012 — Regular Meeting IV. POSTPONEMENTS — NONE V. CONSENT AGENDA VI. OLD BUSINESS — NONE VII. NEW BUSINESS 1. Case PUD-12-02: Application of Nicole Martinez, Director of Community of Hope, for a Planned Unit Development (PUD) concept plan to allow for a wide range of institutional uses to assist those in need. The uses include, but are not limited to, a child crisis center, soup kitchen, medical clinic, transitional housing (tents), etc... The subject property encompasses 8 t acres, is zoned R-3 (Multi- Dwelling Medium Density) and M-1/M-2 (Industrial Standard) is located on Lot 4 of the Amador Tracts Replat 1 at 999 W. Amador Ave; Parcel ID#: 02-29653; Proposed Use: Wide range of institutional uses and services. Council District 4 (Small). Page 1 of 2 VIII. OTHER BUSINESS - NONE IX. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION X. STAFF ANNOUNCEMENTS XI. ADJOURNMENT Page 2 of 2 I PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION 2 FOR THE 3 CITY OF LAS CRUCES 4 City Council Chambers 5 November 27, 2012 at 6:00 p.m. 6 7 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: 8 Charles Scholz, Chairman 9 Godfrey Crane, Vice Chair 10 Charles Beard, Secretary 11 Ray Shipley, Member 12 Donald Bustos, Member 13 Shawn Evans, Member 14 William Stowe, Member 15 16 STAFF PRESENT: 17 Robert Kyle, Building and Development Administrator, CLC 18 Katherine Harrison-Rogers, Senior Planner, CLC 19 Mark Dubbin, CLC Fire Department 20 Rusty Babington, CLC Legal Staff 21 22 Becky Baum, Recording Secretary, RC Creations, LLC 23 24 I. CALL TO ORDER (6:00) 25 26 Scholz: Good evening. Welcome to the Planning and Zoning Commission for 27 Tuesday, November 27th, 2012. 1 am Charles Scholz, I'm the Chair. 28 29 11. CONFLICT OF INTEREST 30 At the opening of each meeting, the chairperson shall ask if any member on the 31 Commission or City staff has any known conflict of interest with any item on the 32 agenda. 33 34 Scholz: Before we begin we always ask if there is any conflict of interest. 35 Gentlemen, any conflict of interest today with this case that we're going to 36 deal with? No. Okay. Anything from staff? No. Alright. 37 I'll introduce the members of the Commission and then we'll 38 approve the minutes. On my far right is Commissioner Shipley, he 39 represents Council District 6. Next to him is Commissioner Crane, he 40 represents Council District 4. Next to him is Commissioner Stowe, 41 Council District 1. Then there's Commissioner Evans who just arrived, 42 Council District 5. Commissioner Bustos next to him, Council District 3. 43 Next to him is Commissioner Beard who is also the secretary of the 44 Commission, he represents Council District 2. And I am the Mayor's 45 appointee to the Commission. 46 1 1 III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES 2 1. October 23, 2012 - Regular meeting 3 4 Scholz: Alright I'll entertain the approval of the minutes of the October 23rd regular 5 meeting. Any additions or corrections to the minutes? Commissioner 6 Crane. 7 8 Crane: Page eight, line five. 9 10 Scholz: Okay, I'm on the wrong document. Hold on just a moment. Here we go. 11 Page eight. 12 13 Crane: And line five. I said "and do you know where this park is that 14 Commissioner Shipley has alluded to". Alluded. 15 16 Scholz: Alluded, right, not eluded. Okay. Anything else? Commissioner Shipley. 17 18 Shipley: Page five, line 40, the first word in the sentence "one" should be stricken. 19 20 Scholz: I'm sorry. I'm on the wrong page here, just a moment. 21 22 Shipley: Page five, line 40. 23 24 Scholz: Thank you. Got it. Anything else? All right I'll entertain a motion to 25 approve the minutes as amended. 26 27 Stowe: So moved. 28 29 Shipley: And second. 30 31 Scholz: Okay Stowe moved and (Shipley) seconded, okay. All those in favor say 32 aye. 33 34 ALL: Aye. 35 36 Scholz: Those opposed, same sign. And any abstentions? Okay the minutes are 37 approved. 38 39 IV. POSTPONEMENTS - NONE 40 41 Scholz: There are no postponements today I see. 42 43 V. CONSENT AGENDA - NONE 44 45 Scholz: And nothing on the consent agenda, is that correct? Okay. 46 VI. OLD BUSINESS - NONE 2 I Scholz: And no old business. 2 3 VII. NEW BUSINESS 4 5 1. Case PUD-12-02: Application of Nicole Martinez, Director of the Community 6 of Hope, for a Planned Unit Development (PUD) concept plan to allow for a 7 wide range of institutional uses to assist those in need. The uses include, but 8 are not limited to, a child crises center, soup kitchen, medical clinic, 9 transitional housing (tents), etc. The subject property encompasses 8 +/- 10 acres, is zoned R-3 (Multi-Dwelling Medium Density) and M-1/M-2 (Industrial 11 Standard) is located on Lot 4 of the Amador Tracts Replat 1 at 999 W. 12 Amador Ave.; Parcel ID#: 02-29653; Proposed Use: Wide range of 13 institutional uses and services. Council District 4 (Small) 14 15 Scholz: So our first case is new business. It's case PUD-12-02. Now for those of 16 you in the audience who haven't been here before let me explain how this 17 works. The City makes its presentation, I should say the staff for the 18 Community Development department makes its presentation. Then we 19 ask the applicant to make their presentation. Then we open it for public 20 discussion. After we have public discussion we close it and then the 21 Commissioners discuss and vote on it. All right. 22 23 H. Rogers: Good evening. Katherine Harrison-Rogers for staff. I'll be presenting this 24 evening. What's before you tonight is PUD-12-02. This is specifically a 25 request for a PUD to allow for a wide range of institutional uses intended 26 to assist those in need, specifically at the Mesilla Valley Community of 27 Hope campus. Existing uses on site; there's currently a child crises 28 center, a soup kitchen, a medical clinic, a daycare, case management and 29 day service center, food bank, and a temporary tent camp for the 30 homeless. 31 What's being proposed is of course those uses already outlined 32 and the addition of a permanent homeless shelter, permanent homeless 33 campground, community garden, substance abuse center, job center, 34 transitional and permanent housing program, donations and distribution 35 center, respite care center, and also similar uses as would be approved by 36 the Community Development Director. The property is a little over an 37 acre. It's located at 999 W. Amador on the existing campus. It's currently 38 zoned M-1 which is industrial standard and R-3 which is multi-dwelling 39 medium density. It should be noted that all of the uses that are currently 40 on this site with the exception of the camping, are actually allowed uses 41 under the current zoning. What's being proposed specifically for the 42 camping which is a transitional housing component, is a maximum of 45 43 tents and 50 occupants. They are proposing to utilize a number of 44 camping standards and accessory standards that are outlined in the U.S. 45 Bureau of Reclamation Guidelines for Camping. They're also proposing to 3 I utilize the development standards that are specified for the C-3 district. 2 And additionally all the City Design Standards will be followed. 3 There has been a request for a few items, specifically that the 4 Community Development Director can approve again those institutional 5 uses that are similar, but perhaps not envisioned at this point in time. And 6 to also allow for final development plans and other permits such as 7 building permits to go through the administrative process as opposed to 8 going through a lengthy process at public hearing. Specifically because; 9 one it's a small site and they are not subdividing nor are they changing 10 where the existing buildings are, rather they're just adding on buildings 11 and doing some site improvements such as drainage and some pad sites 12 for those tents. 13 Here's a zoning map just to give you an indication of what's nearby, 14 a lot of industrial you can see and multi-family uses are adjacent or 15 nearby. Again, just an aerial to give an idea of a sense of what's existing 16 on the campus. And I'll use my little pointer here to show essentially 17 where the camp is and will be, right here. I have a site plan of course for 18 you indicating where those future phases will be located and of course 19 where the exiting buildings are today and where the anticipated room for 20 expansion of those building or new buildings will be located. Additionally 21 there is a preliminary site plan for the camp itself, this is somewhat subject 22 to change essentially based on the final design with the grading and any 23 other engineering specifications that are requested. The proposed tent 24 pad site by the Bureau of Reclamation elevates those pad sites, provides 25 some fill material just to get it up and off the ground so you don't have 26 ponding and other problematic issues associated with that. Just for 27 reference, again here's an example of an ADA accessible pedestal grill 28 that is also compliant with those U.S. Bureau of Reclamation standards. 29 During staff's review we did a lot of research into other tent cities 30 and uses such as this, both those that as sanctioned by the governments 31 and those that just sprung up. Some of the common issues and common 32 perhaps ideas that came regarding these were the concepts of time 33 limitations. In many of the instances these were temporary set ups, no 34 more than 90 days. There were some sanctioned tent cities that 35 essentially are required to move various locations throughout a city every 36 90 days. Some of them however that we discovered, there's one in 37 Florida in particular has been there quite a long time, is rather large, I 38 believe it's over 200 tents, and it's in a permanent location. 39 For this particular proposal it was determined that they would prefer 40 to have a more permanent situation as opposed to a temporary situation. 41 Again, location criteria was another item of interest that came up during 42 the research in regard to whether or not these located in more of a rural 43 area on the periphery of cities or if these are better suited towards the 44 interior of a city. During research it made more sense to have these areas 45 located where people can actually find the services that they need; you 46 know such as bus transportation, being able to have access to mail, case 4 I workers, medical, that sort of thing, the ability to look for jobs as opposed 2 to being on the periphery of a city. 3 Visual impacts, that was another important item that came up 4 during our research, specifically the clutter associated with some of the 5 tent cities, generally in those sanctioned cities they tended to be more 6 uniform and more organized, shielded, buffering provided, landscaping 7 provided, in a lot of the tent cities that just sprung up and were not 8 sanctioned by those governments, it tended to be a lot less organized and 9 there was the potential for of course trash because they didn't have the 10 services available to them. 11 Again, lack of viable and safe housing options was one that came 12 up, essentially from the homeless community or people who have 13 emergency situations, where can they go when there's actually only one 14 other option in the City of Las Cruces being the Gospel Rescue Mission. 15 Fire and emergency safety was a big component of our review. 16 Essentially if there is a fire can we get the people out safely? However 17 are those tents going to be spaced apart in order to ensure maximum 18 safety, getting those people out? What sort of patrols or democratic 19 measures would be in place to make sure that people were doing as they 20 were supposed to do in the tent city? In this particular instance it is self- 21 patrolled, there are rules associated with living there. Again personal 22 safety, again that goes back to the fire and emergency safety. You know 23 are people safe in that location, can they get the protection they need, are 24 they watching out for one another? And then of course provisions for 25 sanitary facilities to prevent the spread of common disease including skin 26 problems, digestive disease, things of that nature, can people clean up, do 27 they have access to bathrooms? Is the ponding mitigated so you don't 28 have problems with common pests like mosquitoes and what have you? 29 During the review and as you are probably well aware section 38- 30 49 (D)(c)(2) of the Zoning Code does require specific findings for approval 31 of a PUD. Staff during its review did determine that it was compliant with 32 these findings as well as the intent of the PUD that's also listed in section 33 38-49 but specifically section (A). We determined that the PUD meets the 34 intent of all applicable plans and regulations. The DRC did review this 35 particular case, it was on November 7th, 2012 and they did recommend 36 conditional approval. Most of the discussion centered around the final site 37 development, essentially those engineering components, those safety 38 components regarding fire, access, things of that nature. A condition was 39 placed upon it by the DRC, specifically that the final development plan 40 specific to the tent camping area would be completed within 6 months or 41 submitted within 6 months, and then of course the improvements 42 completed within a year after City Council approval. Staff has reviewed 43 this request and recommends approval of this PUD based on the findings 44 and conditions that I distributed this evening. You will notice that I did 45 distribute those. They are a slight modification, they're not entirely 46 different, there were just some clarifying language in those findings that 5 I we thought would be helpful for you. Additionally, I also submitted a letter 2 of support from our ETZ Commissioner Bob Hearn specifying his support 3 for this, but also objecting to one of the conditions. And as you may have 4 noticed in your packet there was also a letter of opposition from a nearby 5 neighbor. 6 Your options this evening are to approve the PUD concept plan and 7 the associated site plans that were in your packet; approve the concept 8 plan with conditions; deny the PUD; to table or postpone. And for your 9 convenience I have the conditions listed here and I would be happy to 10 answer any questions you might have or just turn it over to Nicole 11 Martinez who is representing the Community of Hope. One thing I would 12 like to point out is the City of course does own the property but of course 13 with our permission Nicole is going through the process to try to achieve 14 the PUD. 15 16 Scholz: All right. Thank you. Any questions for this lady? Yes, Commissioner 17 Shipley. 18 19 Shipley: Very nice presentation. Thank you very much. 20 21 H. Rogers: Thank you. 22 23 Shipley: Just one thing. I may have missed, didn't hear you at first but I thought 24 you said one acre, it's 8.01 acres. 25 26 H. Rogers: A little over 8.0 acres. 27 28 Shipley: Okay and the majority of this is zoned what R-3? 29 30 H. Rogers: It's somewhat split down the middle. I can go back to the map so you can 31 see ... 32 33 Shipley: Well the map shows basically R-3 and M-1/M-2 is outside the boundary it 34 looks like. 35 36 H. Rogers: Actually the M-1 splits it in half. I know that this is a grey map and 1 37 apologize for that, it's easier for reproduction during your packets. This 38 area, this small line right here you can see it's kind of a yellow line, all of 39 that to the west is the M-1. 40 41 Shipley: Okay. 42 43 H. Rogers: And everything to the east is the R-3. 44 45 Shipley: Thank you for clarifying that. 46 6 I H. Rogers: Yes sir. 2 3 Shipley: Second thing is that as I read through this and I read through the 4 application it says in there, in their application it says one teepee and 45 5 tents. Now has the teepee been excluded or is that included in the 45? 6 7 H. Rogers: It wouldn't be a structure ... it would have to be one approved by the 8 departments. My understanding of the teepee is that it has not been 9 deemed appropriate for fire safety and I can look towards our fire 10 department for clarification on that. As it stands now, our department is 11 comfortable with the 45 tents and the maximum of 50 occupants, less the 12 teepee. 13 14 Shipley: On attachment 3b however what is the round item that's 44-feet, looks like 15 44-feet in diameter but then it's got a 13-foot diameter, I'm confused about 16 what we're talking about here. 17 18 H. Rogers: Again this is preliminary and some of this is existing and some of it is 19 proposed to sort of be permanent. There is a sunshade structure and I'm 20 not quite sure, I will look to Nicole to determine whether or not that was 21 intended to be the sunshade or if that was the teepee, the round one. 22 That is the teepee. 23 24 Shipley: That's the teepee. 25 26 H. Rogers: Yes sir. 27 28 Shipley: Okay. 29 30 H. Rogers: And again this particular site plan is preliminary in nature. We're still 31 working out the kinks in regards to the drainage and some of the other 32 structures such as the pedestal grill and any of the other common 33 facilities. 34 35 Shipley: Because this one has 36, this is the 36 and one. 36 37 H. Rogers: Correct. This is an older version. 38 39 Shipley: Okay. All right. 40 41 Scholz: Okay. Commissioner Crane. 42 43 Crane: On the matter of sanitary facilities I see you have three portable toilets in 44 the northeast corner, correct? But as I read the text it seems if people 45 want to wash their hands other than just at a spigot they have to walk over 46 to the EI Caldito or some other permanent structure. Are there any plans 7 1 for at least rudimentary showers there or any sink where they can wash 2 their hands near the toilets? 3 4 H. Rogers: I can clarify some of that and of course Nicole can also clarify. Staff is 5 recommending that those portable toilets be replaced with permanent 6 facility, simply because this is not a temporary encampment. It's not a 7 temporary tent camp. It is supposed to be more of a permanent facility. 8 We're requesting that those facilities be made permanent. Therefore 9 there would be bathroom facilities, handwashing facilities. During the 10 week currently they have access, the residents have access to bathroom 11 facilities, they have access to showers, and they have access to laundry 12 facilities indoors. But again, staff's recommending that permanent 13 bathroom facilities be placed there, however the applicant has requested 14 that the porta potties stay. 15 16 Crane: Thank you. 17 18 H. Rogers: You're welcome. 19 20 Scholz: All right other questions? Commissioner Evans. 21 22 Evans: Yes, what's the (inaudible), I mean what's driving building a tent city? 1 23 mean I guess I don't really quite follow the direction in which the City is 24 going to establish tent cities in Las Cruces. 25 26 H. Rogers: I will defer to the Community of Hope for that. 27 28 Scholz: Okay. 29 30 Evans: So, but you're representing the City and approved that. I mean wasn't that 31 a question that was asked. 32 33 H. Rogers: I'm representing the City, however the request for this to be processed ... 34 yes there was a request to move forward with a way to come to some sort 35 of solution for this by City Council. The actual application process and the 36 proposal coming before you is actually coming from the Community of 37 Hope with the permission of the City. So I'm looking at it as a reviewing 38 party not an applicant. And so I can perhaps defer to Nicole. I think that 39 perhaps she might some clarity to that. 40 41 Evans: Who has oversight of the HUD properties you know within the City of Las 42 Cruces? 43 44 H. Rogers: Well our department has some oversight in regard to affordable housing 45 and getting some of those projects on the ground. This particular 8 1 property, none of this facility, although we own the property, this facility is 2 not, we lease it out. It's not ours. It's not run by the City. 3 4 Evans: And what's the occupancy rate of some of the HUD housing in Las 5 Cruces? 6 7 H. Rogers: Of the HUD housing? I don't have an answer to that. We could look into 8 that for you and provide you some numbers. 9 10 Evans: It would seem to me that you know I mean that you would want to fill those 11 vacancies prior to moving on to ... I mean are we really talking about a 12 tent city here in Las Cruces? 13 14 Scholz: Are you asking a philosophical question here or ...? 15 16 Evans: Well I guess I just don't see ... I mean I guess maybe if you wanted to 17 defer your question to the applicant, maybe that's where these questions 18 are best answered. 19 20 Scholz: Okay. 21 22 H. Rogers: I think that as I'm just the reviewing party in terms of a zoning code I think 23 1 would prefer to defer to them as they are the interested party in achieving 24 this. 25 26 Evans: Okay. Thank you. 27 28 Scholz: All right, other questions? Commissioner Shipley. 29 30 Shipley: One other question on the last item on the conditions of approval, says no 31 tent can be utilized for more than 10 persons at any time. And on this 1 32 guess preliminary site plan attachment number 3a, you show military tents 33 which ... 34 35 H. Rogers: Yes, again these are older site plans and they are preliminary in nature. 36 37 Shipley: So the military type tents are not going to be used? 38 39 H. Rogers: No, unfortunately although they are a sturdy tent the fire hazard 40 associated with those posed a great risk and based on the review of the 41 Fire Department and the rest of the City we requested that those not be 42 used. 43 44 Shipley: So we're basically back to camping tents in other words? 45 46 H. Rogers: That's correct. 9 1 2 Shipley: All right. Okay. So I don't know of a camping tent that houses 10 people, 3 do you? 4 5 H. Rogers: No. I actually have one that houses quite a few but I don't know if it 6 houses 10. They're pretty large structures. 7 8 Shipley: I was just wondering why this was in the conditions. 9 10 H. Rogers: Specifically because it changes the requirements from a fire code 11 perspective and I may defer to our Fire Department on that, but it does 12 change some of the requirements from fire code. 13 14 Shipley: Okay. 15 16 Scholz: Could we hear from fire on that please? 17 18 Dubbin: Yes, Mr. Chairman, Commissioner the fire code when more than 10 19 persons are staying in a temporary tent requires certain improvements like 20 sprinkler systems or alarms that wouldn't be practical. 21 22 Scholz: Would you stay on your mike sir? 23 24 Dubbin: Excuse me. When there are more than 10 persons in a structure intended 25 for sleeping, improvements to the tent that wouldn't be practical such as a 26 sprinkler system and an alarm would be required. That is the purpose of 27 the 10 persons. 28 29 Scholz: Okay. Commissioner Beard. 30 31 Beard: I don't whether I missed or not, but when I visited, those tents are awful 32 close together and I was just thinking when we have our windy weather 33 and there was a fire, that would spread like wildfire. Are those tents coded 34 to not burn? 35 36 H. Rogers: At this moment the tent city is not entirely in compliance with what we're 37 requesting this evening that's listed in our conditions of approval. 38 39 Beard: I didn't understand that. 40 41 H. Rogers: As currently sited the way the tents are organized today my understanding 42 of it is they're not entirely in compliance with the requirements that we've 43 asked for and outlined in our conditions of approval. So they would have 44 to be somewhat modified. I believe that ... 45 46 Beard: But that's only spacing. 10 1 2 H. Rogers: That's spacing and my understanding is that they will have to be prepped 3 with sort of an anti inflammatory. 4 5 Dubbin: Mr. Chair. 6 7 Scholz: Yes, fire. 8 9 Dubbin: One of the conditions of approval from the Fire Department is a 10-foot 10 separation that is stipulated in the international fire code. One other 11 condition is that they meet NFPA 701 which is fire retardant for temporary 12 membrane structures. There are several requirements in there, but most 13 tents are manufactured with that acceptance testing in place already. 14 15 Beard: Fire retardant. What does that mean? Does it burn, or what temperature 16 does it burn? 17 18 Dubbin: The NFPA 701 specifics are that the membrane will not maintain a flame 19 once it's removed. So if you held a flame to it, it would melt. Once the 20 flame is taken away it would no longer burn. It's a very specific series of 21 testing that is required to meet that requirement of NFPA 701. 22 23 Scholz: Okay, thank you. Any other questions? Okay may we hear from the 24 applicant please? 25 26 Martinez: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, my name's Nicole Martinez. I'm the 27 executive director of the Mesilla Valley Community of Hope. And we 28 appreciate the opportunity to be here this evening and talk about tent city 29 and where it's at right now and talk about the options about going forward. 30 Just to give you a little brief history since I know that that was brought up, 31 camp hope, how we refer to the tent city, was instituted last November. 32 So actually has been in effect for a full year now. At the time I was not the 33 director of the Community of Hope, however I did work there. But the 34 former director was told by the City of Las Cruces because Community of 35 Hope is on City property that having people sleeping on the campus just 36 randomly would not be allowed and that the homeless people needed to 37 leave the campus and it was as winter was eminently approaching and the 38 winter before was the freeze of 2010. So there was a lot of concern about 39 sending the homeless people to go sleep somewhere away from all of the 40 services where they had some protection during a difficult time of year. 41 And in effect asking them to go to places where they would be camping 42 illegally down by the Rio, behind buildings, dumpsters, etc. So at that time 43 they came to City of Las Cruces, the former director, and a few of the 44 homeless clients from the Community of Hope and discussed some of the 45 options that they could have because Las Cruces does only have one 46 overnight shelter that has a lot of strict provisions, for example time limits 11 I that you can stay there. You can stay for three days, then often times you 2 will have to leave and if you leave you have to wait 30 days to come back 3 again, so during that interim period it can be very difficult to get enough 4 money together, security deposit, first month's rent, utility deposits, those 5 kinds of things, so you end up having a lot of people that are still sleeping 6 illegally in the City of Las Cruces. 7 Now it is a plight in every city. This isn't something that's unique to 8 Las Cruces. Homelessness exists all over. However it has been unique 9 that the City has recognized that there haven't been a lot of options and 10 there is HUD housing, however the waiting list is about two to three years 11 depending on which kind of program you're going into, but for most people 12 that would qualify that are homeless, it's not an option for them because 13 again the waiting list is closed and has been closed for quite some time. 14 So we have seen it be very difficult. The Community of Hope besides 15 being a day shelter we also operate six housing programs, so we do get 16 funding from as many places as we can and we are really the only other 17 sources besides the Housing Authority which is HUD funded that tries to 18 get people off the streets. And essentially we have been able to do that 19 very successfully with people that have been staying at the camp. So the 20 City Council said that they could erect the tent city during those winter 21 months for a short amount of time until March. So the winter approached, 22 we got permission, set up provisions from Fire Department, Police 23 Department to have it in effect. Set up policies and procedures within the 24 camp, rules of governance. It is a pretty autonomous camp but they are 25 latched on to the Community of Hope on our property so we're very strict 26 about if they're violating any City codes and if they're violating any agency 27 codes. We do have strict requirements and there is a bit of a difference 28 between the general homeless population that does come to the 29 Community of Hope that's not staying in the camp, and some of the other 30 activities that might go around and some of the other businesses might 31 have come into contact with. From the time that we've had the camp we 32 have seen a huge decrease on our campus at the Community of Hope in 33 terms of vandalism, in terms of people urinating or defecating in places 34 that are illegal. Because we did provide the porta potties and there are 35 actually five. So we have three porta potties, one ADA porta potty, and 36 then on the outside of the camp for the other homeless people that are 37 coming through the property, they can use that porta potty. 38 But again five days a week when the Community of Hope is open, 39 they are to use the bathrooms in there, the showers in there. We have 40 laundry facility in there. We have a sink in there where they you know 41 could do dishes, refrigerator, etc. Out in the camp though they do have 42 the four within the camp, porta potties, and then we do have two spigots in 43 the back of the Community of Hope for washing your hands, rinsing 44 dishes, things like that if they need to in that back area. 45 So at this point what we can say is we have been following as 46 many of the provisions, we have already been instructed to do from the 12 I Fire Department, Police Department, and will definitely continue to do so. 2 1 mean as having you know safety team that does stay and guard the 3 camp 24 hours a day, they have their own scheduling system for making 4 sure that that is safe. I am always on call to them. They also know to call 5 the Police Department or behavioral health crisis of they need to on any of 6 the tenants that are staying there. We have a roster so that we know 7 where people are at all times, which tents they're staying in and it's a 8 pretty extensive roster. It tells us you know birth dates, veteran or not, 9 next of kin, and when they vacated, where did they go and why, were they 10 banned from the camp, did they exit to one of our housing programs, did 11 they exit to another housing program, did they leave with income, and 12 those sorts of things. So all those things are being tracked. It would be 13 very difficult for us to go forward with continuing to have the camp if there 14 were some large costs associated with it because we are a nonprofit and 15 so far we haven't had financial support for this. It's completely donation 16 funded at this time and we do have fundraisers and so forth for the camp. 17 And we are actually excited about making it regulated. So with you know 18 our writing this concept plan which is going to turn into a final site plan. It 19 won't look much like what you've seen here which was the original 20 version. We're working very closely with engineers to work with making 21 the camp be fire safe, you know again emergency access vehicles. We'll 22 have a wide enough driving lane, the tents far apart, fire retardant, 23 purchasing tents that are canvas which the teepee actually is certified, it's 24 fire retardant, water repellant, and mildew. So it's actually one of the most 25 sturdy tents that we have out there. We have a couple others out there 26 that we have that can sleep up to four people and have been really 27 advantageous for people that are disabled. 28 So realize that there's going to be a lot of costs incurred which is 29 part of what you saw for the regulated tent pad sites, lifting them off the 30 ground, being able to make sure that all of the tents are fire safe. But 31 instituting things that might be most cost burdensome without any 32 assistance from the City would be very difficult again in terms of building a 33 permanent bathroom or having a kitchen. Again turn to, even if you stay 34 at a hotel you don't have the kitchens and these men and women do have 35 access to the soup kitchen, EI Caldito which is open seven days a week. 36 They also have access to eat at the Gospel Rescue Mission and they 37 have grills outside of the camp. And we do plan to erect a permanent 38 pedestal grill for them. Also there are often times many churches most 39 weekends will come and cook for the patrons at the camp. 40 Again what I can say that we're asking for here is compassion and 41 something that has actually been beneficial for the City of Las Cruces 42 where the camp is. We still have our problems with the transient 43 population that's not staying at the camp, but those staying at the camp do 44 have their own security. We also have paid security that does come 45 around on our campus three times. Whenever we have issues with them 46 they relay them back to us and most oftentimes the calls that we're getting 13 I called are the people from within the camp about the other people not 2 staying in the camp that are causing problems on the campus. We also 3 went to all the other agencies located on that campus like EI Caldito, Casa 4 de Peregrinos, St. Luke's, the daycares, and asked them about their ideas 5 about having the camp there and they had all seen an increase in the 6 safety, less graffiti, less other criminal activity going on, on the campus 7 itself since the camp had been there in existence. So we would like to go 8 forward. This does call for creative measures. And again essentially what 9 we're asking for is to allow people that have been marginalized to have a 10 community there where they have access to the services, where they do 11 have access to getting onto our lists and to getting them into housing right 12 there and we're not searching for them along the Rio or camping out 13 behind K-Mart or places that might be illegal or going to jail for 14 trespassing, which is another undue burden on the City. So again 1 15 appreciate Katherine's presentation and the City working with us this far 16 on getting this area rezoned to the planned unit development. We again 17 do plan to adhere to many of the conditions but do ask to not have to build 18 the permanent facility. And it's no necessarily clarified in that way, cause 19 we could have the porta potties be permanent, but again that is a 20 conversation that we would need to continue to have. 21 22 Scholz: All right. Will you stand for questions then? 23 24 Martinez: Yes. 25 26 Scholz: Okay. Commissioner Beard. 27 28 Beard: I did see a lot of people there, more than what I thought could fit in the 29 tents and I was wondering why aren't ... if they had a tent to go to would 30 they stay there? 31 32 Martinez: They might. I think a lot of them would. There's a waiting list. 33 34 Beard: How do you select the people that stay there? 35 36 Martinez: First come first serve. And it has been at capacity since it's been opened, 37 again which is capped at 50 people. And thus far the tents have not 38 reflected the amount of people staying there. It was capped on an 39 arbitrary day because again none of us knew how this was going to go, so 40 when the Fire Department asked how many tents do you have out there 41 right now, we had 36 and so they said cap it. So we are asking for a slight 42 increase in tents at 45 tents for 50 people because we do realize a couple 43 of people can share and with our big Davis tents that sleep four people, 44 again people that might be disabled need access to those tents that some 45 of them will be doubling up. 46 14 I Beard: Well if this is such a good deal for 45 people, why don't you take care of 2 everybody? 3 4 Martinez: We don't have necessarily the space for that and again incurring the costs 5 of having more tent pad sites and having more tents. So with other people 6 we keep them on the waiting list or get them into the housing program, we 7 see if there is availability for them at the shelter that is across the street. 8 9 Beard: Okay. 10 11 Scholz: Commissioner Evans you had a question about the tent city in itself. Go 12 ahead. 13 14 Evans: Well I think, you know my first question was you know ... 15 16 Scholz: Can you move your mike over just a bit? 17 18 Evans: You know my original question was you know if the HUD provisions which 19 are available in Las Cruces are being utilized to their fullest extent and 1 20 think that she answered that by a two to three year waiting list. I'm just a 21 little surprised that you know we have 45 plus you know people that are 22 waiting in line for these types of facilities and even that's not enough. And 23 so I mean this may be you know a stopgap measure to do what we can 24 now, but I mean I'm not sure it's the right place or the right approach () 25 because it seems like it needs to be expanded upon. But I don't know. 26 I'm interested to hear what some of the public has to say too. 27 28 Scholz: Okay. Any other questions for the applicant? Okay. Thank you for your 29 presentation. 30 31 Martinez: Thank you. 32 33 Scholz: All right, I'd like to open this to public discussion. Who would like to speak 34 to this issue? Yes, come on up and identify yourself sir. 35 36 Akle: My name is Peter Akle. I own the Design Center that is 909 West Amador 37 which we are directly north. I have three or four acres that go up against 38 the property. And forgive me I've never been to a City Council meeting 39 before. 40 41 Scholz: This is not a council sir, this is the Planning and Zoning Commission. 42 43 Akle: I'm sorry. I've never been here before period. 44 45 Scholz: Oh, well you should. It's a great facility. You should avail yourself. 46 15 1 Evans: Excuse me. I'm sorry. Really quickly could you put on the display which 2 property that he actually owns? 3 4 Akle: Everything except this building. 5 6 H. Rogers: All of this. 7 8 Akle: I am not against it at all and in fact I'm very (much in favor) for helping the 9 misfortunate. In fact my company, I donated all the tile, all the flooring for 10 the child crisis center in the back. I don't have a problem at all with 11 helping my fellow man. I'm very for that. I've been there 13 years 12 however and I really have had a bird's eye view of how things have 13 changed in that area. Amador is the third or fourth, I'm not sure but it 14 used to be the third busiest street in the city and my former partners and 1 15 purchased that property as well as the property across the street to build a 16 bigger design center. We do a lot of granite fabrication and it's ... I realize 17 about 10 years ago that the problems I was having with the homeless was 18 getting worse and worse. We have people defecating all over our front 19 patio, it's a morning ritual for us to clean up beer, wine, feces, toilet paper, 20 packs of brand new zip-lock bag with toothbrushes, brand new toothpaste 21 never used. And people sleeping on our patios. When my employees 22 come to work we've had fights in our parking lot. We've have, and I'm not 23 saying it's from those in the tent city, I'm just saying we've seen it grow 24 and increase over the 13 years to where we're calling the police on a 25 constant basis. We see fire trucks going to Community of Hope or across 26 the street virtually every day, several times a day. It's getting very very 27 congested with homeless people. I know there's a lot of people that need 28 to be fed and I appreciate that. However this to me is encouraging it 29 because the amount of people that come in and panhandle off my clients 30 as they pull into the front of the design center is growing every six months 31 to nine months. I'm just not really sure if this is what we want to 32 encourage as a city on the second or third busiest street. Amador is a 33 main artery and I've had so many ... most of my clientele are retired 34 people that are moving here to Las Cruces. We do the whole interiors of 35 their homes. We work with the majority of the builders, and I've had so 36 much negative comments from what's going on back there because it's 37 very unsightly. I appreciate that they're trying to improve it, but to me it is 38 increasing greater basis every month or two it seems like we have more 39 and more people. I have whiskey bottles thrown all over in my granite 40 yard where I take clients. I've had beer bottles. I had somebody climb my 41 fence and knocked over 21 granite slabs which cost me about $30,000 in 42 damage and it was from somebody from the Community of Hope because 43 they were identified and the police actually arrested them. It seems like 44 it's totally out of control and chaotic. I agreed that it is self-governed. 45 They do police themselves, but I don't think that's enough. I cannot take 46 ... most of our clientele that spend money in our store are ladies and they 16 I actually hung curtains on two acres of fencing and the wind of course is 2 trashing that. And it's been a real problem. Like I say I'm all for helping 3 them but I don't know if putting them in tents ... first of all it's very 4 unsightly and hiding it may be a good idea but that group it's getting bigger 5 and bigger and if you did 45 1 feel like you're going to have to have a 100 6 and where does it stop? People are coming from all over. I talk to people 7 in Denver and Phoenix, there's people coming from all over because we 8 do accommodate them and it's encouraging. There are people right here 9 in our community that need help. I understand that, but it's turned into a 10 real fiasco. We have big windows in the front and we see things all the 11 time, every day I see drunks walking and stumbling in front of Amador, 12 falling on the street. We've pulled people out of the street in wheelchairs 13 from that area that live there. We see them every day. We know who 14 they are. We know they live at one of the two places there. And I just ... 1 15 hate to see it get worse. 16 17 Scholz: Okay, questions for this gentleman? All right thank you very much sir. 18 19 Akle: Thank you sir. 20 21 Scholz: Someone else from the public. Yes, go ahead. 22 23 Stryker: Good evening gentleman. I'm glad we have a board like this that watches 24 over for our city. My name's Harry Stryker. I own Stryker's Shooting 25 World which would be, if I can find the mouse, there it is, that building right 26 there. So obviously I'm in close proximity to the tent city. I agree although 27 my problems have not been on the level of Peter's problems, they have 28 increased dramatically in the last year. And rather than belabor that point 29 1 have the exact same issues that he has. I think we need to ask 30 ourselves how does this benefit the City of Las Cruces? What purpose is 31 there to this type of establishment right in the middle of downtown? I'm 32 sure you're all aware of the latest huge issue with the topless club and for 33 whatever reason that it's passed and it is there now, the important thing is 34 to me it's at least on the outskirts of town. It's by the freeway. It's in the 35 industrial area. It's by truck stops and manufacturing plants. It operates 36 at night. There's nothing during the day to harass the customers. I keep a 37 line of no trespassing cards from the police at our building because we 38 have had to call them so many times for belligerent people. I mean I ask 39 them nicely. I don't throw them out just because they come in, but I guess 40 examples of things that don't see fair to me that has never been a legal 41 entity. There is no camping allowed in the City of Las Cruces limits and 42 they camp there. It is still against ordinance. They might have had the 43 City Council's provision, but I didn't know that they can go above and 44 beyond the law at their whim. So it is an illegal camping site anywhere in 45 the city. I had a person who worked for me that is a codes officer. He's . 46 since left the area. He was forbidden to go into tent city and write any 17 I citations by the codes department. They would not allow him, fire, or 2 police to go in there unless they were called on some type of call. 3 So I'm kind of wondering ... where I'm going with this is, I'm putting 4 in a new shooting range inside my building. I have to have a two-height 5 drinking fountain so that anyone who wants to can come in and get a drink 6 of water. There's no water available there except a spigot on weekends. 7 So, if I have to follow all those codes, all the fire restrictions, all of the 8 legalities that surround building my unit, why was this allowed to be put 9 there illegally going to ... okay now we're going to put the blanket over the 10 top of it and say okay we're ordinancing it so that it's okay now for this little 11 area. And as Peter stated how much bigger does it grow? Do we want 12 Las Cruces known as, what do you think of the greatest tent city in the 13 whole United States in Las Cruces. I am absolutely ... just as Peter, 1 14 donate all kinds of things to humanitarian organizations at my business. 1 15 give them money, I give them door prizes, I give away a lot of money 16 cause I would like to be able to say that I could be helped by my 17 government, by my community were I in that situation. And I firmly believe 18 in what you give makes that nice big circle and you get it back. However, 19 at some point I think you have to draw the line and say, and I'm sure you 20 read my letter and that I'm all good with it being somewhere in the city but 21 why can't we put it outside of the main downtown area. I have customers 22 that go by, what's that whole bunch of tents over there? And I said well 23 that's tent city. Where what do they do there? And I explain and, wow 24 right in the middle of town. I go, right in the middle of town. So, while 1 25 support all the efforts of the Community of Hope it is unfortunate one little 26 tiny thing, the city wants me to have a license to have an alarm because it 27 gets so many false calls. I have to pay $50.00, if I don't have that license, 28 this is proposed I think, they won't come to my alarm call because it's a 29 waste of police resources. I cannot count the number of times fire trucks, 30 ambulances, and the police go to parking lot of Horse & Hound. I can't 31 believe Curtis isn't here, because it is a nightmare for him. He's right in 32 this facility I believe it's this one right here is Horse & Hound. So they're 33 constantly in his lot harassing people, inside his store. And you know 34 maybe they're not the people from tent city, but I think it grows a 35 community of people who are coming to the area and go well if I can't stay 36 in tent city I'll just hang out for a while. There's a lot of opportunity right 37 around this area where I don't really have to, I can get some free food and 38 some free drink and that sort of thing. So, I don't want to waste a lot of 39 your time, but obviously I'm opposed to the whole concept of enlarging it. 40 1 didn't get a chance to read the conditions, it looks like there was some 41 fencing going to be put up and that sort of thing. That helps, but when I go 42 out to my garbage can in the morning and it's been rifled and the garbage 43 is all in the street, they didn't do that during the day. It happens at night 44 when they're you know, I don't know if they lock them down inside of the 45 tents but, it's a huge problem that exists in that area. I have two tenants in 46 the little building, no you can't see it on the map, it's just to the west. It's 18 I all girls, they do dog grooming and they are scared to death to leave at 2 night. They do not leave in the dark. They close early in the winters so 3 they don't have to leave in the dark. That's the kind of environment that is 4 down there. And I agree with Mr. Beard that if you go inside there it's 5 definitely not an organized structured situation. It's everywhere. It's kind 6 of a little bit chaotic. So, thank you for your time. I appreciate it. 7 8 Scholz: All right. Questions for this gentleman? Commissioner Evans. 9 10 Evans: I don't have any questions for him, but I'd like potentially staff to answer 11 you know the items that were brought up where police, fire, and codes are 12 forbidden to enter that area and write citations. 13 14 H. Rogers: I'm unaware of any such provision. I might turn to the Fire Department to 15 see if they've been given direction in that manner. 16 17 Dubbin: Mr. Chairman, Councilor, I know of no issues with being prohibited with 18 the citations. 19 20 Evans: So assuming that this was to pass, would codes enforcements be regular 21 patrons of that facility ensuring that there's no littering, defecation, just you 22 know ensuring that it's a clean tightly kept community? 23 24 H. Rogers: They would be treated just as any other property owner or business would 25 be treated unless they were driving by and saw some sort of violation, 26 typically it's complaint driven, but yes they would deal with it just the same 27 manner that they do all over the city. 28 29 Evans: But wouldn't we have as the City of Las Cruces kind of building a 30 community that's ... wouldn't we have a higher responsibility to patrol and 31 maintain you know the codes in that type of environment where there's not 32 ... I mean so if I go out and buy a home and a residence you know I have 33 a vested interest in that. If you know I'm somewhat of a transient and I'm 34 staying there you know I don't really feel the obligation or the commitment 35 to maintain that. And you know that may not be across the board, but 36 ownership typically kind of drives responsibility and commitment to the 37 area and its appearance and its upkeep. So assuming that that is taken 38 out of the equation and we're advocating for this type of establishment, 39 doesn't that illness fall within, you know shouldn't that burden of 40 responsibility either fall you know onto the applicants or the City of Las 41 Cruces who's granting the permit? 42 43 H. Rogers: That all properties were treated fairly and equitably in regard to the 44 maintenance and the care and the compliance and I would imagine that 45 simply because this is owned by the City of Las Cruces it may have a bit 19 1 more scrutiny in regard to those issues, but again we would expect that 2 everyone was treated fairly and equitably across the board. 3 4 Scholz: All right, Commissioner Shipley. Sorry. 5 6 Shipley: I just have a couple of questions and maybe collectively between the City 7 attorney and the director or the assistant director, shouldn't this be, since 8 this is a use, I want to clarify first of all there were alligations made that 9 there is no allowed camping within the City limits. Is that a correct 10 statement? 11 12 H. Rogers: I can actually answer that question. Mr. Chairman, members of the 13 Commission, there have been some provisions made to allow for some 14 temporary camping in City parks with the appropriate permit from the 15 Parks Department. 16 17 Shipley: Okay. Now since this doesn't fall within that category, this isn't a City park 18 and so forth. Shouldn't this use be a special use permit to authorize this 19 type of use? And let me follow this up with my kind of logic; if this were to 20 be a special use permit we could condition that permit that this use come 21 back to us annually with a review by the police and fire department and we 22 could review how many incidences there were. First of all there was a 23 statement in here about two murders. Is that a true statement? 24 25 H. Rogers: My understanding is that were some homicides in the area but it was not 26 directly related necessarily to the tent camp, but there had been some 27 homicides in the area, yes. 28 29 Shipley: Okay, so my point is if we were to handle this through a special use permit 30 process, then we could review it and if it was not working we could 31 terminate the special use permit and this use would go away. 32 33 H. Rogers: Chairman, members of the Commission, unfortunately the code actually 34 doesn't have camping as an allowed use in any of the zoning districts. 35 There is provision for RV parks and mobile home parks, but not 36 specifically tent camping. It's just simply silent on that in regard to the 37 Zoning Code. It may require actual text amendment to the Zoning Code 38 itself to then include that as something that would require a special use 39 permit. 40 41 Shipley: Okay. The reason I'm saying that, cause if it's not allowed in the City code 42 as of this date, then we are basically doing something we're not allowed to 43 do if we approve this. Because if we approve a PUD that still doesn't give 44 them the right to do this type of activity there. 45 20 I H. Rogers: Well the planned unit development Mr. Chairman and members of the 2 Commission, does allow for some wiggle room and some flexibility in 3 terms of development and uses. It's almost a mini zoning code if you will. 4 So during the review of this particular tent city and with the direction of 5 City Council this appeared to be the best solution to address it. 6 7 Shipley: But I think what we're concerned about is giving up, you know if this 8 problem continues to grow, you know then we have no means of retracting 9 from this problem or terminating that. And that's why I said I thought 10 maybe if it were handled through a special use permit then we could 11 condition it so we could review it and if it was working fine, if it's not 12 working and it's creating problems, you know and the people that live 13 there are going to know exactly what they're up against. I mean it's not 14 like we're trying to play one hand telling them one thing and one hand's 15 telling them something else, we want them to know that there are 16 conditions that they have to comply with, and if they don't meet those 17 conditions they can lose what they have now and that can go away. So 18 that's ... I guess I need somebody to give me some advice. Am I barking 19 up the wrong tree or what's going on? 20 21 Scholz: Mr. Kyle, I see you had the book out. 22 23 Kyle: Mr. Chairman, Commission members, actually a campground is called out 24 in the land use section of our Zoning Code, it is a special use permit in the 25 C-3 and the M-1/M-2 zones. It's specifically though more related to RV 26 parks and camping associated with that sort of thing, KOA type facility. So 27 we do have provisions for campground, it just doesn't spell out your typical 28 camp or tent type camping. What Ms. Roger's alluded to is correct, there 29 are provisions for camping in City parks, and you have to obtain permits 30 from Parks and Rec. One thing to keep in mind is via the planned unit 31 development process, it is affecting a zone change and through that PUD 32 process the flexibility to request something that may not be specifically 33 called out in the Zoning Code etc. exists. And that again is the direction 34 that ... when we were asked how do we look at facilitating this particular 35 land use, what options exist. Well zone change, but we really don't have a 36 zone again that really picks it up, so the best vehicle to process the 37 application request was the zone change to a planned unit development to 38 incorporate and allow that particular land use should it be approved. 39 Through the PUD process again the concept plan of what we want to 40 utilize the property for etc. comes to the Planning and Zoning Commission 41 for a recommendation and then that recommendation is forwarded to the 42 City Council who ultimately has the authority to approve a zone change or 43 not approve a zone change. They could alter conditions, add conditions 44 etc. as they feel is necessary. The Council could impose time limitations 45 or an annular review if ultimately they felt that was applicable. In addition 46 to which because there is a lease, the City is the property owner, and 21 I there is some ability within the lease structure that the City has some 2 ability to control again what occurs on that property and the manner in 3 which it does occur. Now I have not read the lease. You know I don't 4 want to speak with absolute authority on that, but again this is the 5 appropriate mechanism for the applicants to ask for the right to legitimize 6 or to make this particular land use which is currently not appropriately 7 addressed to be done so in a legal and appropriate manner. And it gives 8 staff and the City the ability to look at what conditions do we feel are 9 necessary to try to address some of the issues etc. that we have. 10 11 Scholz: Yes, Commissioner Shipley go ahead. 12 13 Shipley: So then I would be correct in saying that we could add a condition that this 14 should be ... this land use could be granted but the encampment would 15 have to be processed through a special use permit? 16 17 Kyle: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Shipley, I don't think that we could condition 18 that it be a special use permit. Presently it's not within the zones that the 19 property is listed, the M-1 and the R-3, the special use permit is not a 20 category. We can't create a special use permit where one didn't exist and 21 you don't have to get a special use permit in this particular setting for this. 22 23 Shipley: We do not have to get a special use permit with a PUD in other words? 24 25 Kyle: Correct. The PUD is addressing the site through what we are proposing 26 and what's been shown. Typically your SUP we're dealing with site 27 issues, site design etc. the layout of it. The use is generally allowed it's 28 just there are conditions that are associated with it. We've tried to 29 accommodate those conditions etc. through the PUD process. So, I don't 30 know that the ... I think the PUD gets you want the special use permit 31 does perhaps minus that annual or semiannual review etc. But I don't 32 know that the City Council ultimately does not have the authority to put 33 some provision that there be some type of audit or review done and 1 34 would defer to legal if that's not correct. 35 36 Shipley: But I would say we could place a condition of approval, condition number 37 17 that says there should be an annual review by ... either by us or the 38 City Council to look at the police reports, fire reports, medical problems 39 those kinds of things that determine if this is a viable alternative or not. 40 41 Kyle: I believe as a recommending body you could recommend that such a 42 condition be included, yes. 43 44 Scholz: All right, Commissioner Evans. 45 22 I Evans: So we're being asked to approve this you know tent city knowing that the 2 capacity isn't really able to accommodate the need of the community. And 3 so, 1 mean did staff take a look at what the ... cause we do projections all 4 the time of what our growth rates are going to be in the master planning 5 board and all that other stuff, have we looked at what the homeless 6 population's growth is and try and come up with a comprehensive plan to 7 address some of these issues; security? I mean I kind of have a problem 8 without having basic utilities. In fact I have a really big problem with that, 9 and that we're being asked to approve this but we're leaving it up to a 10 nonprofit organization to do their best to provide you know the minimum 11 subsistence for that community that they're actually building. And so 1 12 kind of understand what some of the public participants were saying in 13 that we're aggregating our responsibility, the planners for a nonprofit 14 organization to provide a community that's safe, meets the codes, and has 15 the basic utilities. And so I mean isn't it up to the City to take a 16 comprehensive look at this, to propose a plan going forward which may or 17 may not include some investment? 18 19 H. Rogers: Members of the Commission, Mr. Chairman, I'm reticent to speak on the 20 City's behalf in regard to ultimately what their long term plans are for this 21 area. I can speak to what's being proposed on the table. I have to say 22 that estimating the homeless population is challenging simply because 23 they're moving so much, I mean they're not staying in one place and often 24 it's seasonal. We tend to have nice temperate weather so people do 25 come in the winter, it can grow. I think that the expert of course would be 26 Nicole. She could answer those a little bit more cleanly than 1. Those 27 numbers are challenging. I don't have any solid numbers on that. I do 28 agree that there are, and the City agrees I'm sure, that there are a number 29 of solutions to this. This just being one of them. And I think part of the 30 PUD as was outlined by the applicant included more of a transitional 31 housing that is located in a building, a structure with this just being the first 32 step for a number of people. I think ultimately the end result would be to 33 have something that's more viable housing for folks, this just being more 34 of an emergency situation for those people that need to get into that other 35 transitional housing. But again, I'm reticent to speak for the City in regard 36 to their long term goals for this just simply because my review is specific to 37 this side and the land uses and design requirements. 38 39 Scholz: Okay. We still haven't finished public participation. Did you have another 40 question for this lady Commissioner Crane? 41 42 Crane: Yes sir but I will defer it if you desire. 43 44 Scholz: No, go ahead. 45 23 I Crane: Okay, sequence of single questions turning in the same direction. Prior to 2 the establishment of this tent city a year ago, were people allowed to 3 spend the night on the Community of Hope campus? 4 5 H. Rogers: Not legally that I'm aware of. I would like to point out the building that 6 houses the child crisis center was originally developed as housing for 7 homeless or nearly homeless, however it's not utilized as that. It's being 8 utilized as the child crisis center currently. So at some point in time there 9 had been ... 10 11 Crane: Okay, then the tent city camp hope was established, I'm sure it's in here 12 somewhere, what is the current cap on population? 13 14 H. Rogers: The current cap on the population is I believe 36 tents and 50 individuals, 15 however the request as part of the PUD is to bring that up to 45 tents and 16 still the 50 individuals. 17 18 Crane: So currently did you say 60 individuals? 19 20 H. Rogers: 50. 21 22 Crane: 50, and it will be ... 23 24 H. Rogers: 50. 25 26 Crane: It will stay at 50. 27 28 H. Rogers: Correct, but the number of tents will increase simply because there's 29 some individuals who don't want to share the tents. 30 31 Crane: So what we have here is really a cleaning up of the established tent city, 32 no increase in population, but regularizing the kind of accommodation 33 basically, right? Okay, and prior to the setting up of the tent city would it 34 be fair to assume 50 or 60 people were camping wherever they could find 35 themselves a spot in the city? 36 37 H. Rogers: Again I can't speak for the people who live there, but there are some of 38 those members who live, some residents who might be able to answer 39 that question for you, but I think that that is probably an accurate 40 assumption Commissioner Crane. 41 42 Crane: I have sympathy for what Commissioner Evans and I think Commissioner 43 Beard and the two members of the public who spoke, feel about this 44 acting as an attractant and it certainly does. But the problem is there 45 whether we have a fairly clean tent city or not and this in sense 46 concentrates the problem at the same time it controls it to some extent. 24 I Does it in your view give the police greater power in routing people out 2 who are camping illegally outside the tent city, in that they can now say 3 get yourself on the list at the Community of Hope? 4 5 H. Rogers: I do know that the police have worked closely with Nicole the director out 6 there. And it perhaps does give them the ability to make that 7 recommendation to those people that they may see camping illegally. It 8 provides them at least the alternative to make that recommendation 9 Commissioner Crane. 10 11 Crane: Thank you. 12 13 Scholz: Okay. Thank you. We still haven't finished with the public. Are there 14 members of the public who wish to speak to this? 15 16 Hearn: Good evening. These turn on automatically? 17 18 Scholz: Yeah, you're on. 19 20 Hearn: Okay. Thank you. Good evening Commissioners. My name is Bob 21 Hearn. I'm on the board at EI Caldito which is the soup kitchen which is 22 part of the Community of Hope and I was involved with getting camp hope 23 set up initially. I'd like to suggest we take a bit of a view of the whole thing 24 as a transition trying to solve a problem that existed definitely a year ago. 25 Two things were very much on our minds; the previous winter eight 26 people, eight homeless people had died of exposure during the very cold 27 winter. Some pass away every year but that was huge and we didn't want 28 that to happen again. We needed some shelter. And the campus was 29 kind of overrun with people just camping there, as some of you have 30 noted, the campus was being used by folks just coming in and sleeping at 31 night. They were all over the place. The people that work there in the 32 agencies were very uncomfortable particularly in the evening. So we 33 decided we needed to do something. And putting some tents together 34 kind of at the last minute was what we came up. We came to the city, 35 spoke with Mr. Garza, talked to the Fire Department, the Police 36 Department, Community Development, and if I recall the particulars the 37 zoning allowed for a temporary homeless shelter. Not a camp ground, not 38 tents, but the tents were being put up as a temporary homeless shelter 39 and everybody wanted to solve that problem right then, so that was the 40 route we took to putting it together. And it was temporary. Nobody knew 41 how it was going to turn out. We didn't know if it would work, but it did 42 work. It worked very well. And people got through the winter fine in the 43 tents. That part was a success. 44 Since then it was due to end last March. It was working well, most 45 of the City Councilors have been down and visited. So it was extended 46 because we thought right at that point there was going to be a permanent 25 I shelter that the building now occupied by the child crisis center was going 2 to come open and we'd be able to move the homeless shelter into that 3 facility. Well that all didn't work out. We kind of got through into the 4 summer and things developed and, we said well it's going to be a while, 5 let's get the PUD so we can get the zoning cleared up, get everything 6 prepared properly, get things put into right shape. So we really do have a 7 proper planned facility, not the kind of thrown together thing that we did 8 right originally. We still need to protect people. Now there have been 9 some wonderful things that have happened. Right from the outset there's 10 tremendous community support. People just came in from churches, 11 individuals, they cook meals, they bring food, they've donated camping 12 gear and blankets and food, and clothing. And that's continued right up 13 through this Thanksgiving. The camp itself is well run. There were police 14 calls, there police being called to the Community of Hope twice a day 15 virtually every day of the week. That's down to once every week or two 16 weeks now inside the Community of Hope. And very few of those are due 17 to campers. There are still a lot of folks that come in from the outside. 18 We have a problem. There are more and more people on the 19 street every day, everywhere. If you look at a map between EI Paso and 20 Tucson is us. People are moving back and forth. They're going around. 21 This is a place to stop. A lot of the folks that are out on the street are 22 transients. They're moving through. They're selling drugs. They're doing 23 drugs. On that campus there's no drugs, there's no alcohol. It's not 24 allowed. And it's fairly well enforced. I can't say perfectly but there's a lot 25 of emphasis that's been on that. But just in the numbers, at the child crisis 26 center two years ago had almost no one coming in, now they're full. Next 27 door is EI Caldito where I work, three years ago we were serving 50,000 28 meals a year, this year we're up to 100,000. Three hundred a day, people 29 are coming in for lunch. St. Luke's clinic is overburdened and they're 30 looking to expand. Jardin, the day care center is completely full with a 31 waiting list all the time. The Community of Hope is doing transition care 32 for people, providing showers and things. That's one of the reasons 33 people are around, cause they need those services. Casa de Peregrinos 34 which does food pantries and provides food to people not only there but 35 around the City and around the county here just maxed out. They're doing 36 everything they can. So we have a bigger problem. The attempt to 37 mitigate part of it with camp hope is just one of the pieces, but the City in 38 its vision, I've come to admire this, built this place to bring services 39 together so that people weren't out all over trying to get from agency to 40 agency. They'd be kind of co-located, and other things like the senior 41 centers and the meal problems that really helped a lot. So EI Paso are 42 overwhelmed with their attempts to take care of homeless and indigent 43 people. We're doing our best. There's a lot of really good caring people 44 that are working on this program. The expectation is eventually there will 45 be a permanent facility and we're all looking forward to that time, but in the 46 meanwhile what has been done with this camp to set up the ability for 26 I people to live and be comfortable has really worked out very well and 1 2 think it kind of fits in this transition. We're trying to get through the process 3 and get it set up right and we'd appreciate your looking at it with some 4 favor. Thank you. 5 6 Scholz: Questions for this gentleman? Commissioner Beard. 7 8 Beard: I noticed that there's a travel home or an RV unit that's inside there. 9 10 Hearn: Yes. 11 12 Beard: Is that going to be a standard type of thing that occurs? I mean will the 13 tents be replaced with RVs? 14 15 Hearn: That's certainly not the plan I don't want to get in Nicole's way. The RV 16 was donated and it's being used as an office right now for the camp. I'd 17 defer that one to Nicole. She's been doing all the planning. 18 19 Scholz: It's an office. Okay. 20 21 Hearn: It doesn't run. We pushed it where it is. 22 23 Scholz: Commissioner Evan's was your light on? 24 25 Evans: Yes, you mentioned that this is basically a stopgap measure until we get a 26 more permanent facility in place. What's your timeline on something like 27 that? 28 29 Hearn: Have no idea. Community Development is very much interested in trying 30 to provide a permanent home for people. Well that was the first thing that 31 was tried before the camp city was put in place. Last spring we thought 32 we had a solution. There's an ongoing effort to find a location. It's not 33 real easy and that's ... it's someday. As far as I know. 34 35 Scholz: All right. 36 37 Hearn: Thank you. 38 39 Scholz: Commissioner Shipley, you had question? 40 41 Shipley: Mr. Hearn you made the comment that you didn't think it was appropriate 42 to require as one of the conditions to have permanent restrooms and 43 shower facilities and that done now, that the money should be used at 44 some other time to do something else. Do you still stand by that? 45 46 Hearn: Yes. Thank you. 27 1 2 Scholz: Thank you very much. Anyone else from the public wish to speak to this? 3 4 Sur: Thank you gentleman. My name is Mamur Sur. I am a resident of camp 5 hope and one of the founding members. Thank you for having us here 6 tonight. What I wanted to say is thank you to Nicole and to Sue Campbell 7 and to Bob and to all of the amazing people that work in these agencies. 8 Because of the amount of people that they have helped that I have seen 9 over the last year is astronomical. I'm a hate crime survivor from 10 Pennsylvania. I'm by myself. I don't have any other family except for this 11 community. And I've been homeless in other cities like Miami and 12 southern California. So I know what it means to be out on the streets by 13 myself. This community is a very unique situation and I think a testament 14 to the compassion of the City of Las Cruces not just from the City Council 15 but from the people that live here in this City. Homelessness is a problem 16 everywhere. Drug abuse is a problem everywhere. Violence is a problem 17 everywhere. This community and especially the people that have chosen 18 to live in this camp and abide by the rules have also chosen to respect 19 that it is a privilege to live there. And that's something that we try to foster 20 and to cultivate in all of the people and the residents that are transitioning 21 into housing. Just in the last month out of the almost dozen people that 22 actually moved out of the camp for whatever reason, actually more than 23 half of them, seven of them moved into housing programs or found 24 housing on their own or got their SSI benefits through Sue. So to see that 25 kind of transformation happening for people who had nothing when they 26 actually got to the camp, not even food stamps. To see that happening for 27 people is not just uplifting it's creating a larger root system of community 1 28 think in Las Cruces that is really really special. If you have any questions 29 about how the camp runs, please ask me. 30 31 Scholz: Okay, Commissioner Crane. 32 33 Crane: You said you're a resident? 34 35 Sur: Yes. 36 37 Crane: Okay. Is there any screening done of the people who apply to enter the 38 camp? 39 40 Sur: Every person that wants to enter the camp actually has to see Sue 41 Campbell who is the SORE case manager at the Community of Hope. 42 She is responsible for SORE is actually an expedited SSI service for 43 homeless people to get disability benefits. So everyone that actually 44 registers to get on the waiting list to get in the camp is treated just as 45 another case of hers. 46 28 I Crane: They don't see her until their number comes up? 2 3 Sur: They see here and then they come, give me a little slip of paper saying 4 you know with all of their personal information and then I put them on the 5 waiting list. 6 7 Crane: Okay. How do you handle people who get out of shape in there? By out 8 of shape I mean violating the rules; violence, drugs, alcohol. 9 10 Sur: We've been very fortunate to have, I can't remember his last name, Tony 11 from jail diversion. He came and did a CIT training for the people that are 12 on our safety team. Mr. Sikes who is sitting here is actually head of the 13 night security people. I recently actually also just drafted a volunteer 14 training manual for all of the people in the camp that want to volunteer. 15 We've also had two groups of people attend mental health first aid training 16 from Optium Health. So we're very very conscious of the homeless 17 community. That there are a lot of mental health problems. There are 18 drug abuse issues and alcohol issues and violence can happen anywhere 19 at any time. We we're very proud that we haven't had a single violent 20 incident in the camp for an entire year. There's been no fighting, none of 21 that has happened. And I think it's due to the dedication of the people that 22 have chosen to live there, that it is a privilege. 23 24 Crane: Are there families with children? 25 26 Sur: We don't allow anyone under 18. We actually had a gentleman and his 27 wife with a son come today because they were asked to leave the 28 Mission. And because they couldn't stay in the camp because their son 29 was under the age of 18, we still gave them a tent and blankets. I mean 30 it's hard to express you know all of the people that support us. I'm also 31 kind of in charge of you know donations and when people come in I have 32 a key to a storage container that's in the back lot here. I always try to 33 express to them that all of the blankets and jackets and winter gear and 34 even the camping gear are not just going to the people in the camp. 35 They're going to all the people in the homeless community whether they're 36 you know not staying in the Mission or camped out by the river. I've been 37 living in Las Cruces for almost five and a half years now. And I was 38 camped out over at Burns Lake two years ago and I had a transient 39 person who wasn't part of our community at that Community of Hope try to 40 set my camp on fire in the middle of the night. We also have a gentleman 41 named Bob Lindsey who also was camping out at the lake by himself and 42 he's in his mid 60s and he was beat up by three juveniles and kicked in 43 the face in the middle of the night. So we're very very conscious that 44 there's not just violence within the community but there's a lot of violence 45 and stigmatization going on about homeless people in general in the 46 community. So that's one of the things we really try to work hard at is 29 I educating people about what it is to be homeless. Because there's all 2 different kinds of people. Our oldest resident right now in the camp is 83 3 years old. 4 5 Crane: Okay, thank you. 6 7 Scholz: All right, any other questions for this gentleman? Thank you very much. 8 9 Sur: Thank you. 10 11 Scholz: Anyone else wish to speak to this from the public? Yes ma'am. 12 13 Campbell: Thank you gentleman for having us tonight. My name's Sue Campbell 14 and I'm a case manager at the Community of Hope. I've been there over 15 13 years. I came from homelessness. At the time I was homeless I lived 16 at the river and there was many tents down at the river and you guys 17 didn't have to deal with them when you had to drive down Amador. But 18 DOT cut all the trees down and codes took all the camps out and so they 19 started moving in. And they were behind abandoned buildings. They're 20 constantly getting criminal trespassing tickets. They're records are ... 21 they're getting habitual criminal trespassing tickets. The jails are full. 22 They don't have room for them. They have nowhere to go. So this 23 concept ... and I would also like to apologize to the businesses. Let me 24 tell you the people that are bothering them are the people that I'm kicking 25 off the campus for doing drugs and alcohol. I'm the gestapo of that 26 campus and I won't allow it. But also these other businesses, we got the 27 smoke shop that's right on Valley now. It's selling spice. The worst drug 28 we can have in this City. It's very dangerous. Violence is increasing. Our 29 population is increasing. When people get kicked off the campus for bad 30 behavior and selling drugs, they're going to the Horse & Hound. And 31 they're going out right on the main street of Amador. And they're sitting at 32 the bus stop and they're drinking and doing drugs there. So these people 33 that are tending to want to come into the camp is a group of 50, they are 34 residents here. They want to fix whatever was wrong with how they 35 became homeless. They want to stabilize. They want to go get a job. 36 They can't go to work if they have their stuff stuffed behind a building, 37 because it's going to be gone when they get back. So now they have a 38 safe place to put their stuff so that they can leave and go pursue SSI or 39 pursue employment. Several of them now have gotten jobs and they're 40 saving their money. And they'll soon be moving on. It's not just this 50 41 people. It goes and goes. Except for a core group of maybe five, it's 42 changed like three or four times. Twenty-five, 30 leave, 25-30 come in. 43 And then we help them. And I know it's a huge homeless problem and it 44 does grow every year. And I've never seen so much violence and I've 45 never seen so much drug issues. But the fact is that you have the soup 46 kitchen there which was set up to feed the homeless. They know that 30 I when they come off the freeways and the highways. They know that you 2 know we have the Mission that's right across the street. They feed three 3 times a day. They kick everybody out of the Mission at 6:30 in the 4 morning. Where are they going to go? They're going to come and hang 5 out around the center so that they can take care of whatever they need 6 and then they'll eat at EI Caldito and they can't go back to the Mission until 7 5:00. So, I think it's very little that we're doing for such a big population, 8 but I just want to say that for our group and our people we police them. 9 I'm calling the police all the time. If you want to hear reports about who is 10 calling police I work with the police every day. The detectives, the 11 marshals, I know who they're looking for. I know what they want you 12 know. I've turned people in. I have no problem doing that. I'm lucky I'm 13 alive still for doing that, but I'm very proud because if it wasn't for the 14 Community of Hope I would not be alive. I would've been a Jane Doe in 15 the ditch dead from exposure and I know that. And somebody at the 16 Community of Hope helped me and when I do the intakes with these 17 people coming in that want to change their life or they just became 18 homeless and you know they're mentally just amuck, I sit down assess 19 and you know we can just start doing the ABC's, let's do this first and then 20 we'll work on this, step by step. And it gives them hope. So they don't 21 stay homeless. And that's what I wanted to say. 22 23 Scholz: Thank you. 24 25 Campbell: Thanks. 26 27 Scholz: Questions for Ms. Campbell? Commissioner Beard. 28 29 Beard: We're not against (this) yet, let me tell you. We want to solve the problem 30 just as much as you and have the problem solved. We just don't know 31 how the best way to do is. You did bring up a point though that jarred my 32 mind and that the storage of something when somebody goes to work or 33 looks for work, I noticed that there were storage bins, storage lockers over 34 there. They're bluish color. How does that work? I mean who can use 35 them, how do you get a key? How does that work? 36 37 Campbell: They register at the front desk for one and it's only for a day because we 38 tried it a little while for overnight but then they were getting vandalized 39 when people from you know the streets were coming in and breaking into 40 them. So people can go to work and keep them there during the day. 41 42 Beard: And that's available to anybody? 43 44 Campbell: Uh huh. 45 46 Beard: And who manages that? 31 1 2 Campbell: The front desk staff. 3 4 Beard: The front desk. And this isn't part of your organization? 5 6 Campbell: Yes. 7 8 Beard: Oh, it is? 9 10 Campbell: That's the first place they enter is the lobby and then they sign up and 11 there's different things they sign up for; showers, doing laundry. 12 13 Beard: Okay, thank you. 14 15 Campbell: You're welcome. 16 17 Scholz: All right, any other questions? Thank you very much. Okay, if there's no 18 one else who wishes to speak to this I'm going to close this for public 19 discussion, and we will discuss it. Gentlemen what's your pleasure? 20 Commissioner Crane. 21 22 Crane: So do we have a basis for a discussion, I move that the request for a 23 planned unit development concept plan be approved. 24 25 Scholz: Okay, is there a second? 26 27 Crane: Case PUD-012-02. 28 29 Scholz: And you're approving it with the conditions? 30 31 Crane: With the conditions stipulated on the sheet handed out today by the 32 Community Development Department. 33 34 Scholz: Right, those 16 conditions. 35 36 Crane: Correct. 37 38 Scholz: Okay. 39 40 Shipley: Point of order. 41 42 Scholz: Yes, Commissioner Shipley. 43 44 Shipley: I would like to, I mean I think we'd like to discuss it before we start voting 45 on it. 46 32 I Beard: Yeah, I would like to. 2 3 Shipley: And the other thing (inaudible) because you know I also agree that this is 4 a problem that we have an obligation to work with and you know humanity 5 is what we're all about. But I also think that we also want to be able to 6 control, have some control in if we look at it responsibly and reasonably 7 you know we want to encourage the health care providers to be part of 8 this problem and take care of that. We want to see how many people are 9 getting work. You know how many people are going to a job, because if 10 we make this that this (is) going to be someplace where you can just show 11 up and we're going to hand you everything it's not going to work. It's 12 going to be out of control as the gentlemen have alluded to. So the 13 bottom line is I think that we need (a) condition, additional condition on this 14 at least that this be reviewed and I'm not sure whether it needs to be, you 15 know, if we have the authority to review it on an annual basis That's why 1 16 asked the question about a special use permit or the City Council should 17 review it. But somebody should look at this program and have oversight 18 on the program so that if it's not working or it's turning, going the other 19 direction, we can rein it in immediately and do something about it. And 20 right now just by approving the way it's presented to me we're giving up 21 that ability to do that. So I think it's appropriate to add a 17th condition ... 22 23 Scholz: Commissioner Shipley, until we put this in motion we cannot add 24 conditions to it. 25 26 Shipley: Okay. 27 28 Scholz: Okay? And that's why I asked for a second. If there's no second then it 29 dies without a second and we can continue our discussion. 30 31 Crane: On a point of order, Mr. Chairman. 32 33 Scholz: Yes. 34 35 Crane: I need some clarification. It's always been my understanding that before a 36 committee under Robert's Rules of Order got to discuss an issue it had to 37 be proposed and seconded as a motion, then there was the discussion. 38 Now we've never done it that way. 39 40 Scholz: No, we haven't. 41 42 Crane: Perhaps I'm wrong. 43 44 Scholz: No, it's just it seemed like the discussion rose naturally and then we 45 would, you know then I would say all right what do you intend to do and 46 then someone would propose you know, would say I move to approve and 33 I someone else would second, then we vote on it. But yes, I would rather 2 see someone second your motion right now and then we can discuss 3 additional conditions. We can continue our discussion, because we don't 4 have to vote right away. 5 6 Crane: Mr. Shipley could propose an amendment that would include this 17th 7 condition and I think it's an excellent condition. That (is a) way out of 8 some of the worries we have is that we get to review this at intervals. 9 10 Scholz: All right, is there a second to the motion? Okay the motion dies without a 11 second. All right we'll continue our discussion. I too feel by the way that 12 this is ... while it appears to be an insoluble problem since what we're 13 trying to do and what these gentlemen have talked about is the problem of 14 homelessness. The camp appears to be a solution to the specific problem 15 that was presented a year ago, that is providing people with shelter so you 16 know they don't freeze to death, they don't die of exposure and that sort of 17 thing. But obviously it's not solving the homeless problem. And the 18 problems that were presented by the people, these two gentlemen 19 particularly are problems of homelessness, not problems of running the 20 camp it seems to me. Someone else? Commissioner Beard. 21 22 Beard: I think that a burden is being thrown onto us that's a political type burden 23 and we're not a political body. We look at things for codes. And if we look 24 at the adjacent residences that are being hurt by this facility and ... I mean 25 this is really political. You've got to say that we've got (to) protect the 26 people around the particular area. The Community of Hope, the tent city 27 is only for a small portion of people. I would like to see the City or the 28 county address the big issue and try to take care of the overall problem. 29 It's not our position to do that. All we're doing is trying to solve one little 30 small entity, 50 people out of I don't know how many, that number hasn't 31 been given to us I don't think, but at the same time I want to protect the 32 businesses around there. And we're not addressing that particular issue. 33 1 agree with the lady that spoke to us last that probably the tent city is the 34 smallest of the problems for the tenants around that particular area 35 although I'm sure that sometimes they're also involved. We need to solve 36 those issues for the tenants around there. We need to look at the larger 37 picture of more than 50 people, and I'm not certain ... this is not doing it. 38 This is just taking care of 50 people. 39 40 Scholz: So your question is, will supporting this PUD help the homeless problem? 41 42 Beard: I don't think it will. 43 44 Scholz: Okay. 45 34 I Beard: Is that the issue for us? That's not the question. The question is, is this 2 permit all right to put in regardless of what it solves? You know it's to 3 allow them to be there. We're not trying to solve the homeless problem. 4 The homeless problem is not even being addressed, (to) tell you the truth. 5 6 Scholz: But that was the concern of the neighbors. 7 8 Beard: That is a concern, yes, definitely. That's the political part of it. 9 10 Scholz: Commissioner Shipley. 11 12 Shipley: One of things that as I reviewed this was that the ... one of the things it 13 stated was that the fence around this area, around this eight acres was 14 going to be a five-foot high fence. And to me that's not sufficient. 1 15 understand about the screening and the trees that are proposed and that, 16 but I think the fence needs to be higher to keep people (out) that don't 17 need to be in there ... I don't think you have a problem with people trying 18 to go out, they can go out. They have problems with people coming in 19 either during the day or during the night. And I think that there needs to 20 be a higher fence with a little more restrictions if this is going to be 21 approved. I think that's an additional condition because it basically says a 22 minimum of five-feet and doesn't say a maximum. But I think you've got a 23 problem with more people coming in than you want. If they can only 24 handle 50 people and there's more people than that out there, there's 25 going to be a potential problem. 26 27 Scholz: Additional discussion. Commissioner Crane. 28 29 Crane: I'm a little concerned with conditions of approval number one ... correction 30 findings for approval number one in the new handout we got, it seems that 31 the modifications to the PUD concept plan and site plan not considered 32 substantial as specified in the Zoning Code, may be approved by 33 Community Development Department and do not require review by the 34 Planning and Zoning Commission or City Council. That bothers me. Who 35 makes the determination that it's not considered substantial. This really 36 gives the Community of Hope carte blanche to declare what they consider 37 to be an appropriate use and go ahead with it, when the Planning and 38 Zoning Commission and the public might not feel that's the case. I'm 39 uneasy about it. 40 41 Scholz: All right. Let me ask Mr. Kyle. Who would give that approval and how 42 would that work? 43 44 Kyle: Mr. Chairman, I believe as proposed the Zoning Code defines what 45 constitutes a major or minor amendment to a planned unit development 46 and it's written in code. What this request is, is again basically since we're 35 1 dealing with ... the purpose of the campus which is to provide certain 2 services you might not envision everything. They may want to move 3 certain items around on the campus to accommodate a specific need. 4 Basically my understanding is what's being requested is that the 5 Community Development director, not the Community of Hope director, 6 the Community Development, City organization, would have the authority 7 to approve certain deviations that are being brought to bear that might 8 otherwise require a major amendment to the planned unit development. 9 We're not dealing with a 200-acre subdivision; we're dealing with an eight- 10 acre campus that's largely built out. We have some proposed uses. It's 11 just to provide them and the City more flexibility in accommodating the 12 specifics that are kind of unknown right now, largely because again issues 13 of transitional housing etc. are all funding dependent, you don't know if 14 that's going to happen in any given year based on HUD allocations or 15 whatever else might come from other organizations. And so the request 16 would allow in a more quick fashion us being able to address those 17 potential changes or unforeseens that come up. The mere fact that the 18 Community Development director, if it is approved in that manner has that 19 authority doesn't mean that they couldn't also say, no we think this does 20 need to go back through that major amendment process etc, go through 21 the Planning and Zoning Commission, City Council, etc. But it's just to 22 provide more flexibility in addressing the specific issues associated with 23 the Community of Hope campus and it goes beyond just the campground, 24 again we're trying to look at the entire campus in a much more 25 comprehensive fashion with kind of the wish list of how it may progress in 26 the future. 27 28 Scholz: All right, does that answer your question, Commissioner Crane? 29 30 Crane: (I just wanted to) make sure that you said the Community Development 31 Director makes the decision? 32 33 Kyle: That is correct. 34 35 Crane: Thank you. 36 37 Scholz: Okay, Commissioner Stowe you reached for your light but you never lit it 38 up. Go ahead. 39 40 Stowe: Thank you Mr. Chairman. From the discussions this evening it's clear that 41 the neighboring businesses have a difficulty with homelessness, not 42 necessarily with the Community of Hope. I find that their complaints are 43 issues that are very authentic. The real world we're tonight asked to 44 approve better organization on an existing temporary facility. I think we 45 have to avoid getting into the situation where we're saying that no good 46 deed should go unpunished. I think that we should bring up the vote again 36 1 and propose that the proposition be approved and see if we can get a 2 second. Thank you. 3 4 Scholz: Okay, so you're moving the question in other words? You're moving the 5 motion? I'm sorry, you're moving approval. 6 7 Stowe: I'm moving again for approval of PUD-012-02 with the conditions. And I'll 8 await to hear the wording of the 17th condition from Commissioner 9 Shipley. 10 11 Scholz: Okay, is there a second to this? 12 13 Crane: Second. 14 15 Scholz: Okay, it's been moved and seconded. Your light was on Commissioner 16 Beard and Commissioner Evans is raring to go, so go ahead. 17 18 Beard: If this is not approved, what changes, what happens? 19 20 H. Rogers: Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, if this PUD were not to be 21 approved by both the Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council, 22 because ultimately City Council has the final authority on this vote, the tent 23 camp would have to vacate the premises. One point of clarification, 24 transitional housing is currently allowed in the zoning designations that 25 exist today, but in a permanent facility, not as camping. So they would 26 have the opportunity if funds do come available of course to build that 27 transitional housing in a more permanent fashion. But the tent camp 28 would have to be vacated. 29 30 Scholz: Okay. 31 32 Beard: So the tents would have to go? 33 34 H. Rogers: Chairman and members of the Commission, that would be accurate. 35 36 Beard: Thank you. 37 38 Scholz: All right. Any other discussion? Commissioner Evans. 39 40 Evans: So I mean I'm looking at this you know and to me it just doesn't look like a 41 place where you should have tent city. I think we've had scope growth 42 over the last year. It was intended for that purpose. The utilities weren't 43 put in there. And they need to be put in there. That being said, I think the 44 gentleman who spoke and the administrator you know it sounded like they 45 had a really well defined plan and a way of implementing that you know as 46 best as can possibly be. But to permanently approve a facility there I don't 37 I think is in the best interests of what that facility was intended to be. And 1 2 think there should be a limit on the permit ... well, so that being said, 1 3 support your need and something needs to be done to allow you to 4 continue to do that until the City has provided alternate means. But giving 5 you know a permanent PUD to allow that facility to remain in existence 6 forever is not something that I think we should do. So, I mean I think a 7 year is a long time. I would like to see it come up before this committee 8 again in six months and listen to you know what the surrounding 9 community has to say; has it gotten worse, has it gotten better, what's the 10 status of the City in establishing or getting funds for additional HUD 11 housing in a permanent structure. I mean you're putting in a tent city in 12 downtown Las Cruces on a permanent basis without any utilities. I mean 13 what are we doing? I mean we should not be doing that on a permanent 14 basis. If we have to do it temporarily to accommodate some of the issues 15 that we're dealing with now, great. But let's have a review process in six 16 months, see if we're going to get federal funding for some additional HUD 17 housing for permanent adequate structures. 18 19 Scholz: Okay, thank you Mr. Evans. Commissioner Shipley are you going to craft 20 an amendment here? 21 22 Shipley: My question would be, Mr. Evans do you want to go ahead and make that 23 the 17th and you can say we can have a formal semi-annual or a six- 24 month review to review the status of the program and then ... I think fire 25 and the police department need to come before us and say, here's the 26 number of incidents, this is what's happened etc. in that area. And if it's 27 related ... it's not just what's inside the Community of Hope area, but 28 what's going on in that area. Because what we're doing is we're pulling 29 everybody into that area and I agree with Mr. Evans, I think six months is 30 perfect because we're not going to turn, as far as I'm concerned, we 31 shouldn't turn people out now this time of year, the coldest part of the 32 year. That'd be inhumane to do that. But I also think that we need to set 33 a time limit that we solve this problem. If we're going to deal with the 34 homeless we need to do it on a basis the county and the City needs to get 35 together and find a place to do this and come up with a plan. And Band- 36 Aids are not going to solve this problem, and that's what we're talking 37 about right now is a Band-Aid. So I agree with Mr. Evans. 38 39 Scholz: Commissioner Beard. 40 41 Beard: So are we ... what are we doing? We tabling it for six months? I mean if 42 we approve it can we disapprove it? 43 44 Scholz: Well, Mr. Babbington, our legal advisor has a word for us here. 45 38 I Babington: Commissioners what your role in this particular event is, is to determine 2 whether or not this planned unit development should go forward. With 3 respect to conditions on it, what you have is staff recommendations and 4 16 conditions on it. There isn't really any authority for this particular body 5 to go back and say every six months we want this PUD to come back and 6 be reviewed. There simply isn't any authority in the code for that. And so 7 reluctantly I think you're exceeding your authority. This body is to make a 8 recommendation either up or down on a PUD with conditions that really 9 relate to the zoning if you will of this particular development. If there are 10 concerns, City Council, their constituency can basically say, gee it's not 11 working out, let's regroup on this particular thing. But this particular body 12 Planning and Zoning is looking at the developmental code, looking at the 13 recommendations provided by staff, and then saying do we recommend 14 approval to City Council with conditions or we do not, or do we table? 15 16 Scholz: But what you're saying is we can't add a time limit sort of condition. 17 18 Babington: Well there's no provision in the developmental code for that particular 19 condition. 20 21 Scholz: I understand. Yes, thank you. All right, Commissioner Crane. 22 23 Crane: I think we should take a rather narrower rather than a broader view of this 24 matter that's before us. No this is not going to solve the homeless 25 problem in Las Cruces and certainly not any wider area, but that's not 26 what's at stake here. What we're trying to do here is regularize a shot 27 from the hip temporary solution to the camping, the illegal and widespread 28 camping problem that came about, about a year ago, make the tent city 29 somewhat better organized outfit. It is going to have no impact on what 30 happens outside and I have a great deal of sympathy for Mr. Stryker and 31 the other gentleman who have had their premises decorated by people 32 who are probably not in the tent city, but who were here before the 33 Community of Hope was here. There are always transients going through 34 who for whatever reason don't behave themselves. This is as I say to be 35 considered in my view as amelioration of a present temporary solution to 36 the shortcomings of camp hope and I think we should just narrowly regard 37 it as such. Thank you. 38 39 Scholz: All right. Commissioner Shipley. 40 41 Shipley: But I think that as it stands right now they have permission on the use 42 that's there to have the tents there. The only difference by doing this is 43 we're adding additional conditions that say they have to comply with fire, 44 and code and that. So, am I correct in saying that, they're already doing 45 this, it's a non-authorized use on a piece of property that the City's okayed 46 already by the City Council and the Mayor and so forth. 39 1 2 Scholz: Mr. Babington. 3 4 Babington: I think that's implicitly correct. 5 6 Scholz: Okay. 7 8 Shipley: Therefore if we turn it down and say you don't need to do this because 9 you're already able to do it without the PUD then the only thing we are 10 doing is changing their ability to move around and to add other uses in this 11 particular area. 12 13 Babington: Commissioner Shipley what you're doing is making a recommendation as 14 to whether or not this proposal, this PUD should go forward or not. And 15 then ultimately City Council makes the determination whether or not 16 they're going to approve this PUD. 17 18 Scholz: Okay, Commissioner Evans. 19 20 Evans: So, I mean based off of that logic then we would be setting a precedence 21 that the infrastructure that's established that's you know currently resides 22 at this facility is adequate. I mean let's just go ahead and expand 23 Apodaca Park and the rest of you know. I mean where do you stop that 24 logic? It just doesn't make sense to me to approach this without looking at 25 the larger picture and just try and come up with a stopgap when they're 26 already currently allowed to do it. I'm just trying to understand the logic of 27 doing this. 28 29 Babington: Commissioner Evans I think you're concern on the bigger picture is well 30 taken but once again the issue before this particular body at this particular 31 time has to do with this particular PUD. Certainly the needs of the 32 homeless outweigh what we're doing here or what you're looking at, at this 33 particular time. Is there a better solution out there, hopefully so. Is there 34 funding, hopefully so. But at this time what we are basically looking at is 35 can we give in this particular are this eight acres the ability to develop this 36 for individuals that need help. And that's what this PUD is about. 37 38 Scholz: All right, any other discussion? All right, I'm going to call the role. 39 Commissioner Shipley. 40 41 Beard: Do we have a motion? 42 43 Scholz: Yes, there was a motion and a second. Motion on the floor. 44 Commissioner Shipley. 45 40 1 Shipley: I still want to add a 17th condition. Whether it's within my boundary or not, 2 City Council can decide that, okay? 3 4 Scholz: Right, so you want to amend the conditions. 5 6 Shipley: I want to amend the conditions and I want to say that there needs to be a 7 formal review held within six months to determine if this should be 8 continued. That if it's not meeting the needs of the community then it 9 should go. 10 11 Scholz: Okay, well then we have to vote on the amendment. 12 13 Babington: Mr. Chairman. 14 15 Scholz: Yes. 16 17 Babington: Point of clarification, by whom? 18 19 Shipley: Well I would assume that since we have no authority it would be the City 20 Council 21 22 Scholz: Okay, can you give us a phrasing of that then please. 23 24 Shipley: All right, I would recommend the 17th condition would be that a 25 semiannual review be conducted by the City Council to look at the 26 incidents of police activity and fire activity, medical, etc. in this area, not 27 just in the Community of Hope area, but in the adjacent area to see if this 28 particular ... to see if this is growing in other words, and we need to 29 establish a baseline using this year's baseline. And that will be used to 30 determine if this PUD should continue or not. 31 32 Scholz: And I see our legal man is writing as fast as he can there. Okay, Mr. 33 Babington, you have question or comment? Other than telling us we can't 34 do this? 35 36 Babington: Yes sir. I just to make sure if I got Commissioner Shipley's - semiannual 37 review to be held by City Council to look at the incidence of police, fire, 38 ambulance for Community of Hope and adjacent areas. 39 40 Shipley: To include the adjacent areas, yes. Because if the homeless population 41 continues to grow (and) to focus on this area, then we know that this is not 42 helping the problem, it's creating a bigger problem. 43 44 Babington: Yes sir. 45 46 Scholz: Okay, so did you move that? 41 1 2 Shipley: I did move that, yes. 3 4 Scholz: Okay, is there a second to this amendment? 5 6 Stowe: Second. 7 8 Beard: Second. 9 10 Scholz: Okay it's a tie between Commissioners Beard and Commissioner Stowe. 11 Okay, any discussion about this amendment? Commissioner Beard 1 12 thought you had a reservation here? 13 14 Beard: No. 15 16 Scholz: No, okay. Okay then we'll vote on it. And I'm going to do this by calling 17 the role rather than by voice vote, okay. 18 19 Crane: Point of order sir, this is on the amendment right? 20 21 Scholz: This is on the amendment. We're voting on the amendment first, right. 22 Because if the amendment passes then it becomes one of the conditions. 23 Okay. Commissioner Shipley. 24 25 Shipley: Aye. 26 27 Scholz: Commissioner Crane. 28 29 Crane: Aye. 30 31 Scholz: Commissioner Stowe. 32 33 Stowe: Aye. 34 35 Scholz: Commissioner Evans. 36 37 Evans: Aye. 38 39 Scholz: Commissioner Bustos. 40 41 Bustos: Aye. 42 43 Scholz: Commissioner Beard. 44 45 Beard: Aye. 46 42 I Scholz: And the Chair votes no. So it's six to one in favor. Okay, so that becomes 2 the 17th amendement. Excuse me the 17th condition. Yes, thank you. 3 Okay we're back to the main motion. All right. So what we're doing is 4 voting on the main motion as amended. Do we have to read the 17 5 conditions? 6 7 H. Rogers: Chairman, members of the Commission, I think in so long as you actually 8 reference the actual document that will suffice, I will also look to legal 9 counsel and he shakes his head yes. 10 11 Scholz: So we don't have to read them aloud. They're all there. 12 13 Babington: As long as you reference it sir, yes sir. 14 15 Scholz: Okay. All right so our motion is to approve case PUD-012-02 with the 17 16 conditions as written. All right, I'll call the role. Commissioner Shipley. 17 18 Shipley: As amended and written. 19 20 Scholz: As amended and written. Yes. 21 22 Shipley: Aye, findings, discussion, site visit. 23 24 Scholz: Commissioner Crane. 25 26 Crane: Aye, findings, discussion, and site visit. 27 28 Scholz: Commissioner Stowe. 29 30 Stowe: Aye, findings, discussion, and site visit. 31 32 Scholz: Commissioner Evans. 33 34 Evans: Aye, findings, discussion. 35 36 Scholz: Commissioner Bustos. 37 38 Bustos: Aye, findings, discussion. 39 40 Scholz: Commissioner Beard. 41 42 Beard: Aye, findings, discussions, and site visit. 43 44 Scholz: And the Chair votes aye for findings, discussion, and site visit. So the 45 motion passes. Thank you folks for your input. I appreciate it. Thank you 46 for staying. 43 1 2 VIII. OTHER BUSINESS - NONE 3 4 Scholz: Is there any other business before us? 5 6 H. Rogers: None this evening sir. 7 8 Scholz: Okay. 9 10 IX. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 11 12 X. STAFF ANNOUNCEMENTS 13 14 Scholz: And any staff announcements? 15 16 H. Rogers: None this evening from me. 17 18 XI. ADJOURNMENT (8:02 PM) 19 20 Scholz: All right, then I'll say we're adjourned at eight o'clock. Thank you very 21 much gentlemen. 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Chairperson 29 44