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07-06-20161 SOUTH MESQUITE DESIGN REVIEW BOARD 2 July 6, 2016 at 6:00 p.m. 3 4 Following are verbatim minutes of the South Mesquite Design Review Board meeting 5 held July 6, 2016 in 2007-A, City Hall, 700 N. Main Street, Las Cruces, NM 88001. 6 7 MEMBERS PRESENT: Robert Williams 8 Paul Mach 9 Barbara Kuhns 10 Ernie Campos 11 Tony Dahlin 12 13 MEMBERS NOT PRESENT: 14 David Chavez 15 Faith Hutson 16 17 STAFF PRESENT: Adam Ochoa, CLC Planner 18 Becky Baum, RC Creations, LLC, Recording Sec. 19 20 OTHERS: Frank Belyan 21 Robert Cruise 22 Martha Rodriguez 23 Patrick Vigil 24 Alex Rodriguez 25 26 I. CALL TO ORDER (6:01 p.m.) 27 28 Williams: So call the meeting to order. It's 6:01. 29 30 II. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - May 4, 2016 31 32 Williams: First Item on the agenda is the Approval of the Minutes from the May 4th, 33 2016 meeting. Anyone have any, Paul. 34 35 Mach: I just had a couple of changes on the minutes. The first one, well the first 36 one was Robert Cruise was here last month and his son. Other, the, the 37 name, his name was spelled wrong in the minutes. So if, instead of 38 spelling it C-R-U-Z it should be C-R-U-I-S-E. And he's here again this 39 month so if we could fix those. 40 41 Cruise: Happens all the time. 42 43 Mach: And then I just also have another item on line, on page 9, line 17 we were 44 discussing the case on the, of the house that's on the corner of San Pedro 45 and May Avenue and on line 17 it says "Main Street" so it said "on San 46 Pedro are some windows and on Main Street there are windows." And 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 that may have been stated as Main Street but it should be May Avenue if we could do something with that. And those were the only two things I had. Williams: Any other? Anyone want to make a motion to approve the minutes as amended? Mach: I move that we approve the minutes as amended. Williams: Second? Kuhns: I second it. Williams: All those in favor. MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. Williams: Motion passes. III. NEW BUSINESS 1. Case 66572: Request for approval of the replacement of a door on the street -facing facade and the renovation of an existing single-family dwelling located on the northeast corner of Mesquite Street and Lucero Avenue; a.k.a. 708 N. Mesquite Street; Parcel ID# 02-06207. The subject property is zoned C-2 (General Commercial District) and is located within the Original Townsite of the South Mesquite Overlay District. Submitted by SaVi Enterprises, LLC. Williams: Okay. Moving on to New Business we have Case 66572. Ochoa: Good evening everyone. First case we have tonight is the case we kind of held over from last month that we had to cancel unfortunately. Staff does apologize about that last-minute cancellation. It's Case 66572. It is a request for a replacement of a door on the street -facing facade for a property at 708 North Main Street. Kuhns: Mesquite Street. Ochoa- Mesquite Street, my apologies. Subject property shown here, northeast corner of Mesquite Street and Lucero Avenue. Property is zoned C-2, General Commercial District and it does consist of a, a vacant single- family dwelling. Subject property is located within the South Mesquite Overlay District within the Original Townsite and the prop, the building is classified as a contributing structure for the State Registry and was constructed circa 1920. Shown here in the aerial the subject property. The, where's my mouse anyway, is it here? But the prop, the building 2 1 we're looking at is the one that's fronting right on Mesquite Street. Here 2 are some street views of that property. Top left-hand corner is the front of 3 the house with the zoomed -in picture on the right-hand side of the door 4 which is what we're looking at today, and the bottom left-hand picture is a 5 picture of the rear of the property. 6 So the applicant is, submitted the building application to renovate 7 the existing wall around the property. The renovation includes the 8 removal and replacement of existing stucco, painting it white, cleaning and 9 painting of existing steel -sash windows, rebuilding this, and, and fixing 10 some existing wooden windows, and replacement of a, a non -historic 11 modern if you will doors and windows in the rear of the property. All these 12 items are actually being taken care of by staff through the administrative 13 process. The one item that does need to come before you all would be 14 essentially the replacement of a door on the front of the property along 15 Mesquite. That does require approval of the South Mesquite for, for this. 16 So the applicant has stated that the existing door is in disrepair, 17 impossible to repair, basically an old wooden door with a, a kind of accent 18 wooden/glass windows on it. The applicant has stated that the new door 19 will be a flat panel wooden door, it will be painted to match the house. 26 Like I said before, the existing door does have small decorative windows 21 which are a style that is recommended to avoid in, by the Design 22 Standards in the South Mesquite Overlay. Staff did take a look at it and it 23 looks like the new door will be consistent with the style recommended by 24 the South Mesquite Overlay and the new, the applicant has stated that the 2.5 new door will be set into place where the original door opening of the 2.6 building is with no proposed changes. Here are some pictures of 27 surrounding properties, a little difficult to see and my apologies. Roughly 28 everything is all single-family around there, with some big commercial 29 across the street and multifamily as well. Staff did analyze this, you know 30 we look at the applicant's (inaudible) essentially most utilized types of 31 architecture and methods and materials that are vision -compatible with the 32 original townsite, the original area, and the original structure itself. The 33 structure is listed as a contributing structure on the State Historic Registry. 34 That is another thing staff took a look at when we were looking at the 35 renovation. Staff did receive no public input from the, any adjacent 36 property owners after we sent out the notice. 37 Just take a look at the Design Standards, the way it reads 38 essentially says if existing doors are beyond repair new ones shall match 39 original material and should also be similar in design. The wooden door 40 that's on there now is not the original door, I believe. So the, hopefully the 41 applicant shouldn't rely on that but hopefully the, this new door will be 42 more similar to the style of door that was you know complementary to this 43 structure. No door up, the Design Standards continue stating no door 44 opening shall be widened or narrowed except that required to comply with 45 Building Code standards. 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 36 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 With that staff does recommend approval based on the findings found in your staff report. The South Mesquite Design Review Board does have final authority on these types of proposals. Your options tonight ladies and gentlemen is: 1) to vote "yes," this would approve the replacement of the front door; 2) to vote "no," this would deny the request to replace the front door; 3) to vote "yes" with conditions, this could add conditions to the proposal as deemed necessary by the South Mesquite Design Review Board; and lastly you could vote to table and postpone staff and the applicant, the applicant, direct us to provide additional information or to possibly develop an alternate solution (inaudible). That is the conclusion of my presentation. The applicant's rep, is here if you have any questions for him and I stand for questions. Williams: Paul. Mach: I would just like to say that in this case I'm prepared to recuse myself from voting on it because Patrick Vigil built my house three years ago. So if any of the Board Members see that I might, think that there might be a question of impartiality I'm prepared to recuse myself. Dahlin: Mr. Chairman. Williams: Yes. Dahlin: What do we think about those metal security doors? Kuhns: I, 1 live alone and I, 1 really believe in those metal security doors. I've been robbed, not in this neighborhood but in another one and they just kicked the door in. It was a French door, and I think that those provide security. Williams: I, I, 1 don't have issue with them either, personally. Campos: I have a question. Before we proceed with the vote I, Paul brought up a good point. I know Mr. Vigil as well. Back in the day I would have done some layouts for him when he was with Tierra del Sol etc. etc. So I don't know if I need to recuse myself for the record ... Kuhns: It's a door. Williams: I, 1 think, well, and, and actually I, 1 don't, I believe as long as you've, have, have stated ... Campos: Yes sir. Williams: What the, what the conflicts might be ... 12 1 Campos: Yeah. I just want to make sure . 2 3 Williams: I think (inaudible). 4 5 Campos: I'm not in any kind of violation. 6 7 Williams: So yeah. 8 9 Campos: Frankly ... 10 11 Ochoa: I, if I may ... 12 13 Campos: About that I'm ... 14 15 Ochoa: If I may interject, Paul and Ernie. You've stated this. The Chair and the 16 rest of the Members can decide if they feel that you can do a vote, you 17 know a non -biased vote on this. If the Chair's fine with it and nobody else 18 has any issues with it we have no issue with you voting on this. If you feel 19 you have, you can do a non -biased vote on this as well then all means. 20 21 Williams: I, I, 1 feel that you guys can be unbiased about it so it's like ... 22 23 Campos: Thank you Mr. Chair. 24 25 Williams: Okay. 26 27 Mach: Thank you. 28 29 Williams: Any other discussion? 30 31 Mach: I just want to say one thing. Thank you for being here today. Thanks for 32 waiting an extra month for having to come before the Board. And 1 33 appreciate you and Robert your next case that coming before the Board 34 before the work has started, which has, recently hasn't been, has not been 35 the case a lot. I know I do and the City does and the rest of the Board 36 Members appreciate going through the, it, through this manner. So thank 37 you. 38 39 Williams: Yes. Any other discussion? 40 41 Campos: I have none. 42 43 Williams: Anyone make a motion? 44 45 Dahlin: I motion that we bring this to a vote. 46 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 377 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 Kuhns: Well, no. You have to say whether you approve ... Ochoa Motion yes or no. Kuhns: Of the door. Ochoa: Yeah. Kuhns: You have to clarify one of those up there, one of those four options. Dahlin: The top one. I, 1 vote, I make a motion we vote "yes" and approve the replacement of the door. Williams: Second? Campos: I second. Williams: Okay. All those in favor. MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. Williams: Motion passes. BANTER FOR A FEW MOMENTS. 2. Case 67760: Request for approval of an addition and the renovation including the replacement of doors and windows on the street -facing facade of an existing dwelling located on the southeast corner of San Pedro Street and Augustine Avenue; a.k.a. 738 N. San Pedro Street; Parcel ID# 02-06123, The subject property is zoned R-3 (High Density Residential District) and is located within the Original Townsite of the South Mesquite Overlay District. Submitted by Robert Cruise and Martha Rodriguez. Williams: Moving on. Ochoa: Thank you. The last case tonight ladies and gentlemen is Case 67760. It is a proposed additions and complete renovation of the property on the, the existing structures on the property at 738 North San Pedro Street. Subject property shown here, southeast corner of Augustine Avenue and San Pedro. As you can see in an area that largely zoned R-3. Zoning R-3 which does mean a high density residential district. Subject property, as before consists of a vacant single-family dwelling in very bad disrepair if anybody, if y'all had a chance to go take a look at it. It is located within the South Mesquite Overlay District within the Original Townsite. Dwelling is 1 classified as a contributing structure in the State Historic Registry and was 2 constructed circa 1925. 3 Showing the aerial here. Two buildings we're looking at of course 4 is the one right on the corner there of Augustine and, and San Pedro. 5 That is the primary structure, and the accessory structure in the back yard 6 there, seen on the southeast corner of the property. Here are some 7 pictures of the site. Thank Paul Mach for his pictures. They're a lot better 8 than the ones I took. So very nice pictures of the, oh go back. Top left- 9 hand, that, the top pictures if you will were taken along San Pedro Street. 10 You can see the front of the building, front of the house there and the kind 11 of side/rear section here on the very right-hand side of the picture. The 12 bottom left-hand corner picture, that is the, the side of the prop, of the 13 building that's facing Augustine with a couple more pictures showing kind 14 of the, the rear yard area including the, the accessory structure there on 15 the bottom right-hand side as well. 16 So the applicant is seeking a complete renovation of the entire 17 property. Renovation includes replacement of the chain -link fence along 18 the front with a new stuccoed wall fence if you will, the, the renovation of 19 the accessory structure, the actual building itself, includes the addition of a 20 front entry porch, a bathroom, replacing of windows and a door on the, on 21 the front, on the street -facing facade, the alteration to the street -facing 22 facade of the dwelling, and the renovation of the accessory structure. So 23 those right there are essentially what we'll be reviewing tonight. Again 24 those are the addition of your front entry porch along San Pedro and a 25 bathroom addition to the structure, the replacement of windows and a door 26 on the street -facing facades, the alterations to the street -facing facades of 27 the dwelling, facade of the dwelling I mean, and the renovations of the 28 accessory structure. All other things, they're proposing removing the 29 sidewalk and putting in pressure fine gravel instead, putting in a concrete 30 pad in the back yard, and the fence/wall will essentially be taken care of 31 administratively, reviewed and administrated by staff to make sure 32 everything's following, following code. 33 Okay. I apologize for these, first of all for the slide show because it, 34 they, they're, it's pretty intense compared to the other ones so we'll just 35 dive right into it. So the first proposal like I said there is an addition of a 36 32-square-foot attached front entry awning. The applicant has stated that 37 this awning will be wooden with clay roof tiles. The applicants state that it 38 will fit the character of the surrounding area and will be constructed with a 39 traditional style seen in this, in the Historical District. The other addition is 40 a new bathroom addition to the rear of that dwelling. Currently there, the 41 area where they're going to put that is a covered patio area, will be 42 replacing a smaller, expanding a smaller bathroom that was previously 43 and poorly constructed for basically two bedrooms within the, the 44 structure. The addition of the bathroom is not easily seen from the, from 45 the street and will be tied into the original adobe walls and will appear kind 46 of seamless to the existing adobe walls of the structure. Here is an 7 example of that awning on the left-hand side there, the, of the awning they're looking at putting on the front door on San Pedro. Top picture, here's a picture of that, the roof at the, the, I'm sorry the, the porch roof, porch that is essentially falling apart. With the proposed addition on the right-hand, bottom of the right-hand side, that is where, how the bathroom will essentially be lining up with the existing home. So no, it will not be sticking out. It'll be essentially flat to the existing structure. The other request is, is seeking to replace some of the street -facing facade windows and door on the property. Currently there are six windows, three on San Pedro and three on Augustine. The applicant is seeking to replace five of the six window with new custom six -panel vinyl - clad double -paned thermal windows which are a specifically allowed window in the South Mesquite Overlay. So these are type, the type of windows that are allowed. The applicant has stated that the existing windows are in disrepair and not salvageable. The new windows will be comparable to windows seen throughout the neighborhood and has stated that the, the windows will have a frame fascia with a custom territorial - style trim using structures from the period of the dwelling, that the dwelling was, was built. All the new windows will be duplicated the same original opening size and dimensions of existing windows so no change to the window openings essentially. The applicant is also seeking to replace the old unsalvageable wooden front door of the property. New, he will be replacing it, the applicant has stated that he will be replacing it with a new solid door that is representative of the style of the structure's period and it will be consistent with the style recommended by the Design Standards of the South Mesquite Overlay. Here are some pictures of the windows as they exist on the top left-hand side and just an example of what those windows will look like on the bottom right-hand side of, of the slide. Next proposal is seeking approval to the alteration of the street - facing facade of the building on San Pedro Street. That change in the street -facing facade will be: 1) the addition of that front entry porch on the front, the front door and what, he, the applicant would also like to replace an existing metal -frame window along San Pedro with a new nicho. Existing window is not an original window of the structure. As stated it was possibly inserted into what was formerly a door entrance which that entrance was taken away cause I believe that is now part of the kitchen. That door would basically get turned into a nicho so, so because of internal changes of the structure that's why that door was replaced. The applicant has stated that the proposed nicho will be a size and style consistent with the neighborhood and the facade alterations will be compatible with the Historic District as well. The final thing we'll do is the applicant is seeking approval for is for the renovation of an existing shed or structure in the rear yard. Because the structure is over 120 square feet it does require an approval by the South Mesquite Design Review Board. Currently it is 130 square feet in size and is a wooden -framed structure with a corrugated galvanized sheet E: walls. The applicant is, is proposing to replace the roof on the structure with a new roof that will match that, what was existing on the, on the accessory structure. The applicant has also stated they'll be replacing all existing rotten trim with new trim and will be adding new wooden train, trim on all four corners of the shed just to make it aesthetically more pleasing and to give it a little more strength, give that structure some strength. No real major changes are proposed to the existing accessory structure. Here are some examples of what the home will look like after it's done. Top left-hand corner as you can see that chain -link fence along the front is gone, new wall will be up. There is the awning along the front, on the front door, along the front there on San Pedro. New windows, the new nicho as you can see between the two wins, the two blue windows. And then there, the view of the rear yard in the bottom right-hand side showing how that new addition looks like on that corner of the building on the, like I said on the bottom right-hand picture. Here are some pictures of the surrounding properties. You can see it's all single-family homes around there essentially. And again staff did look at ultimately you know the applicant, requiring the applicant to develop the property and utilize architectural structures and methods and materials that are visually compatible with the original structure and the surrounding structures and the overall character of the Historical District. As stated before the structure is a contributing structure and staff received no public input about the proposal. Staff was just stopped by a gentleman on the street and asked what was going on and basically said, "Well they're looking at renovating this and possibly you know somebody living there now." Which he just smiled and walked away so I don't know if that was approval or not. Other than that lady and gentlemen recommends approval based on the findings found in your staff report. South Mesquite Design Review Board does have final authority in all these proposals. Here are those findings which are found within your staff report, a little bit lengthy so I'll not read them out to y'all. Your options tonight is: 1) to vote "yes," this would approve the renovation project; 2) to vote "no," this will deny the renovation project; 3) to vote "yes" with conditions, this would allow you to approve the renovation project with added conditions or changes as deemed necessary by the South Mesquite Design Review Board; and/or 4) to table and postpone and basically the South Mesquite Design Review Board will direct staff and/or the applicant appropriately to provide either more addition or, additional information excuse me, or develop alternate solutions at, at, at a, at a later date. That is the end of my presentation and I stand for questions. The applicant is here in the audience. He is a contractor if you have any questions for him. Dahlin: I have a question. When I was working in Santa Fe in the Historical District, when they put an addition onto a building it was not supposed to be seamless. It was supposed to be identified as an addition after the fact. Do we hold that true here? Anybody know the ... P 1 2 Williams: A question for the applicant is the, or the, is the building on the Historic 3 Register or is it, is it just deemed as contributing in our district? 4 5 Ochoa: Mr. Chair. It is just deemed as, as contributing. 6 7 Williams: Then it, it's not required that it be, that it would be . , , 8 9 Dahlin: Oh. That it's unchanged. Okay. 10 11 Mach: The, I, this was a really busy, busy project. And first of all thank you for 12 being here, both of you. And I appreciate, like I told Patrick thank you for 13 coming here before, before you started the work although there are things 14 being done but before this kind of stuff took place. I also want to thank 15 City staff because there's a, again there's a lot of things going on here and 16 you folks had a lot to look into on this and I think you really know what's 17 going on with the codes, not only with our section of the Code for the 18 South Mesquite Overlay Code, but for the rest of the City Codes and thank 19 you for that. To answer you Tony, the house may not be on the Historic 20 Register but it is in the Historic District and it is, there were three surveys 21 of properties done, one in 1980, one in '95, and then in 2004. And this 22 house was listed as a contributing to the integrity of the Historic District at 23 that time, when the whole District was labeled a Historic District. And so 1 24 kind of wanted to mention to you, Robert too about that, that using, 25 because it's not a federally -funded or a state -funded project you don't 26 have to necessarily, as far as I understand don't have to stick to those 27 standards. But they are guidelines and the, and one of the guidelines that 28 the Interior Department does recommend is that when a new addition is 29 put on it be distinguished, or discernible some way from the original 30 structure. Again it was, it's their recommendation that you can do that. If, 31 if there's any way to do that so that it is not appear seamless ... 32 33 Williams: I'm, I, 1 would agree with that if it was in a more public area. The fact that 34 it's on the back corner, it really can't be seen from ... 35 36 Mach: Right. 37 38 Williams: Public places. I, I, 1 don't, I really do not think it's, I think, I think doing it as 39 a seamless is going to look much better than trying to break it off so ... 40 41 Mach: Okay. My dad was a builder for 50 years and his main, his main comment 42 was, "If you're putting on an addition or do remodeling make it look like it 43 was always there." And so I come from that point of view but now we're in 44 the Historic District and they have different ideas so anyway that was, 1 45 also have that comment so thank you. 46 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 Williams: Yeah again, and like I said I, I, to me if it was in a more public area I would, I would completely agree with that. The fact that this is such a small addition and it's, I mean it, it, it really, I don't think it's going to make any difference whether it's seamless or not. I'm not, so. Ochoa: If I may interject, the reason staff did recommend approval for this was it does follow all other requirements of the South Mesquite Overlay. It's under the, the percentage allowed for an addition, no more than 20% of the existing gross floor area. It's way under that. They aren't, look, it looks like they're using glass block for some of that wooden, for windows in the back there. If you look at the artist's rendition there, that is you know hopefully distinguishing the newer part from the older part if you will because I don't know how much the glass block was used in 1925 so hopefully that'll give it some distance in distinguishing the changes as well. Mach: Okay. Williams: Yes Mach: On the windows, a lot of those were steel windows and you know they look pretty bad and those are hard to come by. On the upper left-hand corner picture the first, the window on the far right, the people that replaced that window at some point in time it looks like they resized that window. Williams: Yes. Mach: So I know Robert that you mentioned that openings will be sent to their original size but do you mean the size that originally was or the re - changed size? Cruise: No. It would be the size that it was originally because all they did was frame, put a piece of plywood on the bottom of the window. And so you have a, a, an aluminum -framed window with a piece of plywood that's supporting the bottom of that window. So the original size is still there. That integrity is still there. Mach: Okay. You mentioned that you are planning on doing the frame, territorial style frames around the windows which I think would look really nice. But when I was looking at the house I, 1 just didn't really see any evidence that that was the style of window treatment that was done on the original house. Cruise: Okay. 11 1 Mach: So again it, I, it's the recommendation. I know the recommendation is that 2 conjectural treatments of whatever you want to make changes, not to try 3 and determine what might've been there but if you can determine what 4 was there. Again this is ... 5 6 Cruise: Yes. 7 8 Williams: Go back to the pictures. 9 16 Mach: Just a recommendation. I, 1 don't. 11 12 Cruise: Yes. If Adam can go back to one of the original pictures we did find 13 evidence that there was frames. The one picture in the upper left-hand 14 corner is the, is one of two that did have some remnants of the frame. 15 16 Williams: Not a, a little bit, yeah. 17 18 Cruise: However even as we're just, if you walk by it a piece'II fall off. You just got 19 to take it and stick it back up there. It's a ... 20 21 Williams: Go back ... 22 23 Cruise: We did find two windows that did have what appeared to be frame and 24 that would be that window on, which is the top right corner, the end of the 25 building. From what we can tell that is the original part of the house and 26 there were two additions that were made to it over time by original owners. 27 This property had been in the same family for from what we understand 28 four generations. So we're the first owners of it since that family. So that 29 top and then the center top, the window on the right there's evidence that 39 it also was framed. On the bottom left we believe that long, elongated 31 window was added at some time much later cause Paul had mentioned 32 that was a metal framed window and it's not sized like the other windows 33 so we believe that at some point it was altered or added in. There's 34 evidence in the stucco above it too that there was alterations made at 35 some point in the past. So we're not stuck on the territorial style, you 36 know I, 1 agree with Paul. I think it's a real contributing factor to the 37 Historic District because I think many of those windows probably used to 38 have them and then they were over the years possibly repaired, replaced, 39 refurbished. They didn't get added back in. Therefore that's the reason 1 46 added that in was cause we did find evidence above it. 41 42 Williams: On the, what are your, what are your plans for the parapet top for the top 43 of the wall? 44 45 Cruise: It's ... 46 `K 1 Williams: It's going to be a flat roof, I imagine it is. 2 3 Cruise: It's a flat roof now though we did go through the permit process. The roof 4 has been replaced as of this past week. It has the cap on the top, 5 originally it had the cap which has deteriorated. It was just a hand -formed 6 cement -looking cap. 7 8 Williams: Okay. 9 10 Cruise: So Alex Rodriguez has, is my general contractor and as part of the 11 replacement of the roof so that we could rebuild up that parapet, we put 12 new caps on it and you know, so, and they're stonemason caps. 13 14 Williams: Okay. So ... 15 16 Cruise: And to protect the, but the original adobe is all still there. 17 18 Williams: But it, so, so when it's done it'll be a stone cap. 19 20 Cruise: And ... 21 22 Williams: And with ... 23 24 Cruise: Stucco will go over it so you'll see ... 25 26 Williams: All that ... 27 28 Cruise: And that also kind of led me to think that possibly at one time the windows 29 did have the territorial ... 30 31 Williams: Yeah. 32 33 Cruise: Because I know that Mesilla and then the Mesquite Overlay area I have 34 seen where they have those caps and there were, there were ... 35 36 Williams: Yeah. 37 38 Cruise: Some type of frame around the windows with that particular design. 39 40 Williams: It does look, if that, I think from what I'm seeing there's, looks somewhat 41 territorial. I wasn't exactly sure what the cap was going to be, if it was a 42 stucco or if it was a brick or stone of some sort at one would've led 43 towards the territorial style. So the ... 44 45 Cruise: Correct. It, it was stucco over it originally. So it was just a cement cap 46 with stucco on it. 13 1 2 Dahlin: I don't see the canales. 3 4 Cruise: The, the slope is to the back. That's the original ... 5 6 Dahlin: Oh, okay. 7 8 Cruise: Slope, it doesn't have canales. It ... 9 10 Dahlin: All right. 11 12 Cruise: So everything's sloped to the back so we'll gutter it and then run it off you 13 know based on the City Code for drainage to get it off, it off of the roof and 14 away from the house. 15 16 Kuhns: That's exactly how my house is. 17 18 Williams: Mine too. 19 20 Kuhns: Yeah. 21 22 Cruise: I mean this, this home because it was in the same family for so many 23 years the, the deed on the property is 1888. And so it's had many many 24 alterations. As we go through it we see stuff, we're like, "Why? Why did 25 they do this or that?" But our goal is to bring it back as close to original as 26 we think the, or as we envision as it may have been. 27 28 Kuhns: How many square feet will it be when it's ... 29 30 Cruise: With the addition it's 1,485 feet. 31 32 Kuhns: Oh. 33 34 Dahlin: I got one other question. About the window in the left lower corner, the 35 elongated one, are you going to do something with that? Because it's, it's 36 wider than it is tall and typically they're taller than wider. 37 38 Cruise: We built, it, you can't really see it in this picture but above the window it, 39 the, the stucco has ... 40 41 Dahlin: I can see a patch there. 42 43 Cruise: Yeah, you, the patch. So originally it was probably a, a traditional window 44 but it, but at some point it was elongated. It does let a lot of nice natural 45 light in as opposed to the smaller windows. We are, we can go either 46 direction, whatever the Board would recommend. 14 Kuhns: I think the Board needs to be aware that we have to finely balance improvements to the neighborhood versus getting very specific about things being original and all that because when we start to get too descriptive I think we will squash renovations. Dahlin: Well there's also aesthetics involved and that looks horrible to me. Cruise: Yeah. I, 1 agree. Dahlin: Right. Kuhns: Well you aught to walk around the rest of the neighborhood and ... Dahlin: I actually walked through that house when it was for sale. Campos: I want, if I may thank the applicant and the property owner for their effort staying within their budget to do the best they can to renovate and save this building. Kuhns: Right. Campos: And I, I, echo your comments about ... Kuhns: To save the building. Campos: About ... Kuhns: That's very critical. Williams: Yeah. Campos: Trying to keep it and blend, same harmony and same spirit as the same Dahlin: Homes there. Campos: Surrounding area. Mach: Yeah I'm, yeah. I'm not, again the things that I'm bringing up are just as, are items from the booklet that we were given when we were made members of, on this Board. And so I think this Board and the City and I too want to work as a partner with anybody that wants to fix up a building. This building is really bad shape. And I also know that Robert you did, I happened to be walking down, I go down Armijo which is on the Alameda side all the time. And there was a house that I noticed just looked really 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 attractive on that street. It's one of my favorite streets on, in this city because the houses are just incredible. And when I was, happened to be talking to Robert last, after last month's, the month before's meeting he mentioned that he had remodeled a house up there and it was that house, so I mean I've, I've seen ... Cruise: You've seen a bit. Mach: What you do and your, the house is, are just incredible. Cruise: Thank you. Mach: But even thought that, I, if, if you have a choice of A or B when you're doing remodeling and you, you say, "Well I can do A or I can do B," I prefer the one that is in the keeping with the recommendations of, of the Interior Department which is to try to make the house and keep it as original as possible. So on that window that you were talking about Tony, those windows are probably pretty old. They might not go back to 19, 1888, but they're probably built in the '20s or the '30s and another recommendation from the Interior Department's guidelines is if a change has been made and it's historic in its own right, which is 50 years or more then that becomes a historic part of the house too. Dahlin: Is this, is this window something you're planning to keep as is? Cruise: I would actually really accept and acknowledge any recommendations from the Board on, I'm in total agreement it, it is out of character with the property. If we put in a traditional window like the others I think aesthetically it would look better. The thing is though it would have to be framed in because that's adobe around it and it would be not our recommendation to try to build up adobe along the sides of the window because of the way adobes overlay each other. Dahlin: I, 1 agree with Barbara that it has to be financially feasible but have you inspected if they actually had that window out with a proper lintel? Cruise: No. Dahlin: I mean is it structurally sound? Cruise: It's structurally sound from the inside. We don't know about the outside because we're not touching anything on the outside until after the permit process. 16 1 Dahlin: I was, and I was agreeing with Paul also that if there's a balance, A or B 2 you know about just raising the height or lowering the sill a little bit if it's 3 not too expensive. 4 5 Williams: Paul- 6 7 Mach: Yeah. And I don't know I, the thing's been there for years and years and 8 years and it's been out of place and out of character and I, 1 would say that 9 if it's, it's not within the budget of doing anything with it, it's historical the 10 way that it is even though it looks kind of goofy so that's my two cents on 11 that. 12 13 Cruise: Again, because you guys have seen many and reviewed many different 14 structures around here, our preference would be to stay as historical as 15 possible. Do, do you ever see where there would be two elongated, or 16 two standard windows that would be close to each other as opposed to 17 maybe one long one? So in other words have two the same width so that 18 we're not changing the width but we're only filling in the center in between 19 two windows and if, I don't know structurally I haven't seen anything 20 around here like that but ... 21 22 Dahlin: Go by 604 South San Pedro. 23 24 Cruise: Okay. 25 26 Dahlin: And take a look at that one. That was a federally -funded project so it 27 didn't come through here. 28 29 Cruise: Okay. 30 31 Dahlin: But they're, it's a center -fixed window with two casement windows on the 32 side. 33 34 Cruise: Okay. 35 36 Dahlin: Now that might be impossible to do these days but just want to maybe 37 look at that because it looks like it belongs to the house and it's a red, 604 38 is one I just completed. 39 40 Cruise: Okay. 41 42 Dahlin: And the two, the front doors and the two windows we kept the same ... 43 44 Cruise: Okay. 45 46 Dahlin: Style and the windows we kept the same, period. 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 19 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 26 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 Cruise: Okay. Dahlin: So you just might be curious to look at that. Cruise: We will check it out. Dahlin: It kind of looks like it fits, although it's a lot narrower. I mean a lot shorter. It's about six feet wide. Cruise: Okay. That's probably about five. Dahlin: Yeah. M. Rodriguez: This is Martha Rodriguez. I'm the co-owner of this property and first ... Cruise: Boss. M. Rodriguez: I'm his boss. I just want to thank you for, for your words in terms of your consideration of our budget. I really appreciate that because I mean we're, we're small investors and small business owners and so we are within a, a small budget. Even though this is a, a big big project that we wanted to take on. But I do appreciate that consideration on, on your part. And my, my recommendation would be that if you will allow us to, to look at how, what the, what the impact on our budget would be to make that change you know perhaps do those two windows side -by -side that Robert was, was proposing and if you will trust that we will follow your guidelines as we have, as you, as you have seen then you know we, we'd like to continue moving forward with the project. And so I just would hate for us to have to table the project because of that. Ochoa: If I may interject. Since the applicants have stated they're comfortable with that, that could be a condition you could state where given the applicant you know with approval with condition if you're looking at approving, well I want to say you're going to condition that the applicant look at possibly replacing the long window on the property with two smaller windows that are more taller than wider I guess if you will. If not just to keep the same style that is existing there now and the same size, just to give them that option and if you all are comfortable with that that could be a condition. Campos: If I may, a question to the contractor. Mr. Rodriguez. A. Rodriguez: Yes sir. im 1 Campos: To replace that window, I know due to the, due to the net, delicate nature 2 of, of the house with, with your skills it's kind of hard to find somebody 3 nowadays who knows how to work with adobe and wood etc. etc. Cause 4 most of them, well my dad was a carpenter, were called Maestros. They 5 knew the ins and outs. So it's kind, it's, it's really hard to find a skilled 6 contractor. What would it take to replace that window in your eyes? 7 8 A. Rodriguez: We could replace it. It would take a little bit of manpower to replace that. 9 10 Campos: Okay. 11 12 A. Rodriguez: I mean cause first place we would have to do, replace, fix that header 13 cause there's no way we could do that. It, we couldn't make it wider, we 14 couldn't make it, you know it'd be a lot of work just to, but we could try to 15 thin a window, the style you guys like into that, our opening, or we, that 16 actual opening. And then we can find them in, in the right size or have it 17 made to a size where we could do it but I mean we, I don't see nothing 18 wrong with doing it like that. Which we would have to frame it out 19 completely so we could actually have somewhere to work on. 20 21 Campos: So it can be done and I have a question to the, to the applicant. Will that 22 fit your budget? 23 24 Cruise: Yeah. It, all the windows are going to have to be custom-built anyway. 25 26 Campos: Okay. 27 28 Cruise: The, no, none of them are exactly the same size. 29 30 Campos: That way for, for our, our, our Committee we can make a condition upon 31 where the window. Thank you very much. 32 33 A. Rodriguez: Yes sir. 34 35 Mach: I just have ... 36 37 Williams: Paul. 38 39 Mach. I just have a question on the front door awning that you're proposing to put 40 up. The only thing I, 1 would like to see and, and again it goes back to the 41 Interior Department's recommendations is when you do something like 42 that if somebody comes along later on and decides that was not originally 43 there and they'd like to take it off, if that can be removed without disrupting 44 too much of the structure. I mean it's a, it's a awning added on after the 45 fact but is there any way that you can do that without a lot of rigmarole 46 that's ... W 1 2 Cruise: It would be attached to the structure so that would require, it would be 3 significant to take it down. 4 5 Mach: Okay. 6 7 Cruise: We do see evidence that there was something there at some point in the 8 past. We don't know what it was. It may just be a part of a header that 9 we're seeing but there is evidence of something that was up there. We 10 don't believe that that particular opening was the original opening. 11 Because from the inside we've identified where the adobe had been cut to 12 fit that door. 13 14 Dahlin: Is, is that window properly headed out because a lot of times they'll just 15 take a hatchet to the adobe to make it wider? 16 17 Cruise: Which, which one? 18 19 Dahlin: This elongated window. 20 21 A. Rodriguez: Yeah it, it has a header. In fact it has 15 inches to each side. 22 23 Dahlin: Oh really? 24 25 A. Rodriguez: Yeah. 26 27 Dahlin: And there, and it, it goes ... 28 29 A. Rodriguez: It was, it was original. 30 31 Dahlin: Oh really? 32 33 A. Rodriguez: Somebody, I, who knows what was there original but there's a good 34 header. 35 36 Dahlin: Oh okay. 37 38 A. Rodriguez: Which will support anything under it. 39 40 Dahlin: All right. 41 42 Cruise: Yeah. We've seen things in there that we've just scratched our head and, 43 "Why?" and, and, which is typical I mean we run across that ... 44 45 Kuhns: (Inaudible) 46 20 1 Williams: Yeah 2 3 Cruise: In the other houses we've done. I, 1 do like Tony's idea and I, and 1 4 definitely would like to check that out. I, 1 know exactly what you're talking 5 about and in my mind ... 6 7 Dahlin: Okay. 8 9 Cruise: It's similar Paul to one, the window on Armijo, the left window if you, or 10 right by it, by it we, you might see where it's a single pane in the center 11 and then it has three side glasses but it's all one window which is about 12 that same size. 13 14 Mach: And I just have one more. On the niche, the window that you're planning 15 on taking out and replacing with a niche, I know I've seen it, it's really bad 16 and the one that, that it was replaced at some point in time and I just want 17 to state that again if it's possible to do things without making changes, 18 especially filling in an opening that was originally an opening and then 19 filling it in solid is something that's just asked not to do but again I, all 20 these things that I'm saying, I don't have a problem with what you're doing 21 and what you're planning. I know that again I've seen what you've done 22 and it's, you guys have done, the changes that are going to be made to 23 this house are going to be changes that the District is going to be proud of. 24 25 Dahlin: I agree with that. 26 27 Mach: That's all I have. 28 29 Cruise: From what we can tell again this side of the structure, the San Pedro side 30 is the original structure. They altered the inside and actually built walls 31 and put that metal -framed window and again it also is like the window to 32 the right. It, it just has a piece, had a piece of plywood under it holding the 33 window up. And then the frame, and the framed -in part of it looks like 34 possibly it may have been a door in the past. However when they altered 35 the inside of the house that's where they put the kitchen so it was almost 36 a, a faux window. I mean it wasn't even functional. There was actually a 37 hot water heater in front of it which was against an, an interior adobe wall. 38 39 Kuhns: You know I've been at these meetings and had someone from the public 40 come up and show a picture of the house with a front porch and someone 41 else came up and showed the picture of the same house without the front 42 porch and you know all these places have gone through a whole evolution 43 of meeting the needs of the current occupants. 44 45 Cruise: Just my input on the porch, personally I like porches you know. When it, 46 when it does rain you, you're coming up to your door, you're late at night, 21 1 you know that, that is just a straight, it's going to be open, there's not 2 going to be ... 3 4 Kuhns: Well the sun and wind. 5 6 Cruise: Any protection or anything as you go to enter. I designed it to be, I, I, 7 driving the neighborhood and just seeing, you know there's the attached 8 ones with the, with the, where, that are attached to the side but because 9 it's adobe I don't want to jeopardize the integrity of you know almost a 10 hundred -year -old adobe. We know that the inside, and the reason we 11 think that that is the original facet of the house is because the way the 12 adobes are turned. They're, they're long, they're not parallel to the wall, 13 They're stacked so they're like, those walls are 20, probably 18 ... 14 15 A. Rodriguez: Eighteen inches, about. 16 17 Cruise: Eighteen inches. Whereas the back side of it they turn so they're parallel, 18 so there's six-inch difference on the back walls as opposed to the front. 19 So adding that with the post on there was taking that weight off of the 20 adobe. So to Paul's earlier question could it be removed, it will be 21 attached in the adobe but the adobe is not supporting the weight of it. 22 From a territorial standpoint I've looked at lots of photographs, lots of 23 images, driven the neighborhoods and I did that after what I've seen in the 24 neighborhood as well as down in Mesilla because of the aging of the 25 houses to be, and, and they'll be (inaudible) so and decorative type posts. 26 They're not just going to be four-by-fours there. 27 28 Dahlin: Robert. 29 30 Cruise: Yeah. 31 32 Dahlin: On 604 also I have awnings on there without posts and they were put 33 there probably 50, 60 years ago. We just rebuilt them but you might just 34 want to take a look at those also. 35 36 Cruise: Okay. I'll do that. 37 38 Dahlin: Okay. 39 40 Cruise: Was it original? I, we don't know. 41 42 Dahlin: Ours was a state ... 43 44 Cruise: Let's discuss it. 45 46 Dahlin: Project so ... 22 1 2 3 4 5 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 15 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 40 Cruise: Oh it was? Dahlin: We tried to, the State approved our drawings from the City and they didn't want any change at all basically. What they wanted us to do was to keep what's there and you see we did that. Except for the doors, we put on (inaudible) doors. Cruise: We can always add another. Dahlin: Yeah. It, it's just curious little project, is worth a drive -by. Cruise: I, I'm, if we, if, if the decision on the Board is that we shouldn't add a porch then we'll just move on that but again I'm just ... Mach: Hope it gets the decision. Kuhns: Yeah. I... Cruise: From, from the standpoint of what people want versus you know people like porches and we do see porches at the houses around us. Campos: Yes sir. Williams: I'm going to go ahead and close and ask for a motion basically to approve. Kuhns: Could we get that slide? Ochoa: Sure. Williams: The, the, to approve with the condition on, as stated on the window just to look and see possibly what you might do to that long window if you need to change it. If, if, if you can't we understand and it can stay the way it is but I don't know. I, 1 also, the porch is fine with me and I, with the posts, either the posts or not, I don't, I don't think there's an issue with those at all so. Anything else, anyone else? Someone want to make that motion? Kuhns: I make a motion that we accept this, we vote "yes" on this case with the conditions that the windows, the owners report the options for the windows after they've had time to research it and investigate it. Williams: I did, I would like to maybe amend that motion to say that I don't know that they have to report back to us on it but just make, we'll trust your decision on ... Kuhns: Okay. 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 19 11 12 13 14 '15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Cruise I appreciate that. Williams: The, on that. Yeah. So. Kuhns: Sure. Williams: Paul. Mach: I'll second that motion. Williams: So we have a motion and a second. All those in favor? MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. Williams: Motion passes so. BANTER FOR A FEW MOMENTS. IV. DISCUSSION OF OTHER ITEMS Ochoa: Discussion of Other Items. Ladies and gentlemen there are, as you all know this was approved middle of last year, the new South Mesquite Design, South Mesquite Overlay. There were a number of projects under review and underway if you will with staff that didn't require to come before the ... Williams: Yeah. Ochoa: Board following the old Code and since I believe Mr. Coronado fits that bill because he was, he's been working on that project forever and a day now. He requested extensions and so forth like that for, because his retaining walls, I don't know if you noticed a long time ago, retaining walls completely fell over and he had to redo the retaining walls. Kuhns: Oh really? Ochoa- You, you name it. So his project has just been ongoing for that property so essentially that's why you see you know those big glass windows that are not historical again cause he was before the current Code. That is why that's happened the way it is. A couple other properties happened as well. On South San Pedro, a gentleman reroofing who was doing a porch and a carport addition that was another, an, another project that was be actually working with Susana Montana our former Planner before this was approved as well as a, an, I believe a, somebody brought up a property that was getting a two-story addition down in the south area as well right 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 near the south border of the South Mesquite. That was another project that also essentially was approved when it was working with staff before the current Code. So by all means we are staff, we're here to hear what you have to tell us. So if you see something going on please tell us. If it's something that's already been previously under process if you will we will let you know as well. But please by all means let us know and we can let our Codes people know. We do have a Code Officer in, in our department so we could have them go out there. He was actually the one that went out there and caught the previous cases that we saw before and had red - tagged them, so on and so forth like that. Not only that we have, we could also send out our, our Plans Examiner and he could go out and red -tag as well if we need to. Campos: So standard operating procedure, do we call Codes or call you first? If we see stuff out of the ordinary? Ochoa: You can do both. That is not , , . Campos: Okay. Ochoa: That is not a problem. You can call them, give them heads -up, give us a call and ... Campos: Yeah. Ochoa: Maybe one of us can get the, those wheels turning if you will. Campos: Okay. Ochoa: Yes. Dahlin: I was talking to her earlier about today it seemed like it was dragging on the conversation. Could we institute some sort of a time constraints because I find myself getting into it and, about things that are not necessary in retrospect. Could we do something about that? Ochoa: Sure. That'll bring us up to our next discussion of item: Robert's Rule of Orders. Y'all did just get some handouts as I stated before kind of explaining that. All those aspects are left to our, our, our Chairman. If he wishes to essentially, don't take it personal but he can cut you off. He can tell you, "Okay. You've talked enough," so on and so forth. Typically there is no real limit of time when it's discussion within the Board itself nor with staff cause you know we are discussing the item if you will, but definitely, I mean we've had issues in the past where somebody from the public might keep talking and keep talking and talk, keep talking. The Chair can actually limit the time, the amount of time or maybe not the 25 1 amount of time that they speak but the amount of times they can speak 2 even. It's definitely up to the Chair. That is, that, that's the way the Robert 3 Rules of Orders work for that. But if you can read those hands -out they're, 4 they're quick little guidelines as to how it all works out and hopefully that 5 answers some questions or gives some guidance for everybody. You 6 must be recognized before you speak. State your name, and so on and 7 so forth like that. 8 9 Williams: And you're, and all, on the, under Robert's Rules of Order thing and it's, 10 it's, I kind of keep an eye on it and when it starts getting, you know I've 11 been, I think I ... 12 13 Dahlin: I saw that today. 14 15 Williams: (Inaudible) a couple of times and it's like ... 16 17 Dahlin: Yeah. 18 19 Williams: Everything and I watch because I've, I've been on other boards and stuff 20 and, and been involved in meetings that go, tend to get a little, and 1 21 watch, when we get cases that are controversial, you know and if we get a 22 lot of people in here I may come, we may at the beginning of the meeting 23 state, "Hey, we're limiting discussion to two minutes a person," or 24 something like that you, you know and just leave it at that just if there's 25 tons of people. I don't want to do that if we don't have to because I don't 26 want to stifle ... 27 28 Dahlin: Okay. 29 30 Williams: Conversations necessarily. I want people to be able to discuss but if it 31 does start, get, run, or we're, you know if we're repeating the same things 32 over and over again we'll just call for it to, to, you know and, and go you 33 know as you know tonight just call you know this last one, saying, "Okay 34 we're, let's make a motion and move on," because ... 35 36 Dahlin: Thank you Robert. 37 38 Campos: Yeah, with that if I may Mr. Chair. A lot of the structure starts off with 39 staff's presentation and then they open it up to our discussion and then 40 we'll close and then we'll go to public participation or if the applicant has 41 any questions and then from that point I notice it's more like an open, 42 open-air type where I can ask a question while we're in the middle of a 43 discussion on one of the items. Does that make sense? 44 45 Ochoa: Right. 46 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 Campos: I notice that about this Committee, this, this, this Design Review Board. Ochoa: Correct. And that's something we could definitely fix, kind of explaining beforehand. I don't know if any of y'all been to a Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. The way it starts off is the Chairman before we actually start with my presentation you will state, "Okay, we will listen to this case. Staff will first give us a presentation. They will end their presentation. If you have any questions for staff we will do it at that time, or any comments for staff. Then we will open it to the applicant to speak. after they, we've, that, it, after they speak and if you have any questions for them, any comments to them that'll happen at then," and then you open it, you, and then you open it to public participation. After that's done you close that because that's the biggest thing because the people you want to keep involved in the conversation cause you can keep it open to you all, to staff, and to the applicant because we are the, the vital things and that if, and, and still if the Chair chooses if somebody from staff, from the public still like really has something important to say you can reopen it and you say, "Yes sir you have, you can make your statement and that's it," essentially. Campos: You can time that too as well, "You got three minutes." Ochoa: Correct. Williams: Yeah. Ochoa: If we ever get a full room. Williams: Yeah. Campos- Yeah cause there's, there's been times where they'll, they'll be beating a, what I call beating a dead horse. Williams: Yeah. Campos: Over and over and over so, "All right we got to stop right here and we get the point." Dahlin: I was here at the last meeting. Campos: So let's move on. Williams: And, and I would encourage you know all the, the, the Members you know if you feel something is going long, you know signal me or something and it's like ... 27 1 Kuhns: Okay. 2 3 Williams: And, and it's ... 4 5 Campos: And that's when we say, "A point of order," correct? 6 7 Ochoa: Correct. 8 9 Williams: Yeah. Exactly. 10 11 Campos: I was going to say ... 12 13 Williams: Wake me up. 14 15 Campos: We should say, "Mr. Chair, point of order." Blah, blah, blah. 16 17 Williams: Yeah. 18 19 Ochoa: Correct. You, any Member of the Board can just say, "Point of order Mr. 20 Chairman. I believe we've talked about this enough ... 21 22 Williams: Yeah. 23 24 Ochoa: And we've discussed this numerous times already with this case. Can we 25 continue on with whatever needs to happen," essentially. Okay? 26 27 Campos: Real quick I have a question for the, for our Design Board. A lot of the 28 contractors I know, I've known over the years and etc. etc. do we need to 29 specify that? 30 31 Kuhns: I don't think so. 32 33 Campos: Is that, cause, cause really the, the, the reality is a lot of these contractors 34 are coming back for work. 35 36 Kuhns: Right. 37 38 Williams: Well (inaudible). 39 40 Dahlin: It's a small town. 41 42 Campos: If, if there's no conflict of interest, I don't know ... 43 44 Williams: I think I, like you guys did today is what we, you know if there, if you feel 45 that there might be, the, not, there wasn't any conflict of interest but if you 46 feel that there, that there may be some question about it or whatever, if 1 you just state it, you know and let us know, I think that's good enough. We 2 are going to, the thing is, you know we all, well most of us are arriving, all 3 of us or most of us live in the neighborhood. 4 5 Campos: Yes. 6 7 Williams: We're going to know a lot of times people coming in to do these things and 8 stuff like that. So there's going to be some you know there's, there's going 9 to be the chance that there's going to be other times when we're going to 10 run into people we're friends with or, or you know and, and at that you 11 know so we'll you know ... 12 13 Campos: Right. 14 15 Williams: I think I'd, I, I, 1 think if we, every time say, "Oh I know this person," that 16 you know that's ... 17 18 Dahlin: Could be significant, yeah. 19 20 Williams: That's significant, yeah. 21 22 Campos: But they're, just want to be for the record and I don't want them to feel 23 we're doing a special favor. 24 25 Williams: Yeah. 26 27 Campos: That's it. That's just out of respect. 28 29 Ochoa: Sure. And if I may interject what I will do now with the agendas when 1 30 send them out, I will add an additional item on there for the, call the roll, 31 the, call to the order I'll add a conflict of interest statement as we have in 32 our Planning and Zoning Commission agenda as well, where the 33 Chairman would look at conflict of interest at this time and it, it says what 34 you need to say. He'll read the statement and at that time if you really feel 35 that it's a big deal that you have, if you feel that somebody might 36 potentially throw it in your face in the future, if you just want to state it for 37 the record and but Mr. you know afterwards you'd state, "But Mr. 38 Chairman I feel I can do an unbiased vote on this and I, but I ask the rest 39 of the Board if you're comfortable me voting." If nobody has any 40 objections you can, you can continue then. 41 42 Campos: Excellent. 43 44 Dahlin: How soon do we know if there's a case next month? Cause I have to 45 drive 800 hundred miles. And the last one was painful. The last 46 cancellation at eight in the morning it, it ... 29 1 2 Ochoa: That was rough and I apologize about that. That was out of my hands. 3 4 Dahlin: How could you not know the SWAT thing? That was my big question. 5 6 Kuhns: They don't announce it ahead of time or to us. 7 8 Dahlin: Until this, to the people in the building? I, they should know- 9 10 Ochoa: Unfortunately they announced it. It did not say the exact time it was going 11 to happen and since essentially they gave them carte blanche of the 12 building, the people who took it over essentially said, "Okay, cool. As 13 soon as 5:00 comes kick everybody out." So that's why we were 14 essentially canceled last month. Building Services did apologize as well 15 as inspectors so give apologizes to you all. As do I because that was, 16 that, that was difficult and I apologize about that but I will give you notice 17 now since we have not received any cases as of now, August is canceled. 18 19 Dahlin: Okay. 20 21 Ochoa: We will not have a meeting in August, okay. 22 23 V. STAFF ANNOUNCEMENTS 24 25 Ochoa: But to continue I guess, if we don't have any other items to discuss we, we 26 have some staff announcements. 27 28 Williams: Okay. 29 30 Ochoa: Okay. First of all y'all have your new name plates, or new name tags I'm 31 sorry just for y'all to be walking around with if anybody has any questions 32 when you're doing your site visits, that is for you all. The, the last meeting 33 in May staff was directed with a couple of items by Mr. Chavez and 1 34 believe a couple of the other Board Members. First of all was trying to get 35 some type of public notice to people in the area about building without a 36 permit, or starting construction without a permit. Staff is currently working 37 with not only our Public Information Office but we've been directed as well 38 to potentially do a type of leaflet within utility bills. But as I stated before 39 numerous times, people building without a permit is not only in the South 40 Mesquite. It's ... 41 42 Dahlin: Everywhere. 43 44 Ochoa: Everywhere. So it is going to basically go to everybody in the City who 45 gets a utility bill from the City of Las Cruces. So hopefully with that, that'll 46 start deterring a little bit more people building without a permit. 30 1 Additionally I am finalizing a map that we are creating, a nice about two- 2 foot by three-foot map of the South Mesquite Overlay which we'll be 3 placing somewhere in the front area of our offices, well for when people 4 come in and they're standing around and hopefully that'll kind of be a 5 green -light as well for our building permit people up there, if you're in the 6 South Mesquite please contact the Planner of the Day, just giving them an 7 FYI of that. Hopefully that'll take care of, we've been running into some 8 issues as to the map because at a certain distance you can't see these 9 names of the streets; at another distance you can see all of the names of 10 the streets but then they're too small, the streets, so we're just trying to 11 make it a little, something cleaner for, for us too before we actually publish 12 something out there. I did receive some a -mails from people with some 13 recommendations what we can do. Those are definitely still 14 recommendations we'll keep, staff will keep in our South Mesquite rolling 15 card thing. 16 17 Mach: Circular file. 18 19 Ochoa: No, no, not just to call it, for recommendations for, for different things, the 20 ad hoc committee that Barb brought up, Faith brought up a couple good 21 points to potentially do. We're going to try the leaflet and the sign. 22 Hopefully that will help. If not then maybe we'll start looking into other 23 things as well, possibly do some type of advertising on CLCTV, just, just 24 something and hopefully just get the word out. But again this building 25 without a permit thing has been existing, I saw a case from 1952 of 26 somebody building a barn on their property without a permit and they, and 27 they had to come in and get a, get approval from the City for that. So it, it, 28 it, it's, it, it's not, it's common unfortunately. 29 30 Dahlin: In, many years ago in Los Angeles everybody was building without, 31 without a permit because you simply couldn't get one. It was almost 32 impossible to go in that office and come out with a permit. So they 33 changed the whole protocol. When you go in they help you get the permit. 34 They'll walk you through it. They'll help you get a permit. If you stress that 35 in this envelope, "Get a permit. It's easy. We'll help you." Something like 36 that, positive that you might encourage people to actually come in and get 37 one. Cause they're not expensive and it's, it's, cause I got one today in 38 ten minutes from Kyle. 39 40 Ochoa: Well thank you for that recommendation. That's definitely something we 41 can take a look at ... 42 43 Dahlin: All right. 44 45 Ochoa: As well, just hopefully encouraging people that ... 46 31 1 Dahlin: Yeah. 2 3 Ochoa: It's not a difficult thing to do and it's better to ask for permission than for 4 forgiveness later if you will. So hopefully that will take care of that. But 5 other than that I'll forfeit the rest of my time if anybody else has anything 6 else to add. 7 8 VI. ADJOURNMENT (7:17 p.m.) 9 10 Dahlin: I'm poised for exit. 11 12 Ochoa: Adjourn the meeting. 13 14 Campos: Meeting adjourned. 15 16 Williams: Adjourned. 17 18 19 •�,/L� t'd 20 1�� �• -1i . L L 1 22 Chairperson 32