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10/02/1997 AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING City of Las Cruces,New Mexico October 2, 1997 Members Present: Stephanie Medoff,Gene Kennon,Bill Madden,Jim Boykin,Frank Dailey,Chuck McLean Members Absent: Charles Trego Others Present: Ted A. Morris, Jr., Airport/Industrial Park Manager; Harry Wiley, WAM, Inc.; Marty Ditmore, hangar owner; Edward Lindsay, West Mesa Flying Association; Jack Rosenow, Aviation Day Committee Chairman;Hal Kading, Southwest Aviation;Vernon Wilson,Crosswinds Grill. Jim BoCnt: Okay,the meeting has begun. This is the Stephanie Medoff: I have thought about it,and I like them. meetinfhe Airport Board on October2, 1997,at 12:00 The City Council does it,and you feel like a fool,because noon. first order of business is to call to order,which we you trip over your tongue,but this is real life, it's not a script, have just done. Would anybody like to approve the board and we think out loud. meeting minutes for the last meeting? Jim Boykin: The City Council does this? Gene Kennon: So moved. Chuck McLean: Second. Ted Morris: Yes,sir,they do. Jim Boykin: All in favor? Chuck McLean: What is the purpose? Stephanie Medoff' I think it is a wonderful record,like even All Members: Aye. on the issue of the rental cars,just to get that historical reminder of the Reguest for Proposals that have gone out to Chuck McLean: How do we know without Susan,when everybody, and their responses. And,everybody is sitting saying that? Does she recognize our voices? here at the table thinking out loud,well how can we solve this? Then when people come and jump on this board,which Ted Morris: No,I'm writing it down. We have quite a bit of is a very hard working board,then when people say,don't work to do between now and this afternoon. you guys care that we don't have a courtesy car,you can say, Ce,these are public record,read the minutes,read our Jim Boykin: Madam Chairman,the meeting has begun,and thinking. it is over to you at this moment. Frank Dailey: I think it is a waste of secretarial time,myself. Stephanie Medoff: Can I ask you all how you feel about I think the way they have been getting to us is fine. If we verbatim minutes? have a particular item we need,we can say,hey,make sure we include this whole thing chapter and verse on this Gene Kennon: They are lengthy. particular issue. Ted Morris: I wanted to ask that question too,if you don't Stephanie Medoff. But,you don't necessarily know when mind? It is an incredible amount of work for Susan,and the you begin an issue that the length of the discussion,what reason that we did it is.... ideas are going to come out. I guess you can say,when we are done Frank Dailey: I think it is unnecessary. verbatim. iscussing an issue,please be sure to enter it Stephanie Medoff. Oh,I asked for it because I wasn't here. Gene Kennon: In this particular case,I did appreciate all the detail on the rental cars. Because, I have taken on a little Ted Morris: However,in a short meeting like we had, assignment concerning them,and thisgives me a good verbatim minutes are a day's work. You can imagine on background on what has happened to date. So,in this some of these meetings we've had where they are three or particular case, I'm appreciating them. I don't know whether four hours long, it would be a lot of work. I'm reluctant,and I would like them every meeting or not,but it might be a I don't want to get into the business of editing the minutes,to judgment call as to whether they should be done,and make pick and choose what we put in the minutes,so if you have a that judgment call at the meeting,depending on the subjects chance to think about it, and resolve that. discussed. AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER P.O.DRAWER CLC LAS CRUCES,NEW MEXICO 88004 PHONE 505/526-0000 ♦ i d C J LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 2 of 38 Stephanie Medoff. I think it is hard to know. Another one is reading the words gave me a real clear understanding of the the developers issue,that first meeting they came to,we all message he was trying to relate. I thought it was very say that they didn't mention the resort. They maintain that helpful. they did,and unfortunately the tapes are taped over,they are reused,so we don't even have the tapes to refer back to. Gene Kennon: There are tradeoffs to everything,and I guess in this case I vote for verbatim minutes until we say Gene Kennon: I guess I was going to ask that question,could otherwise. they be saved,the tapes? Ted Monis: We can do anything that you all want to do. Stephanie Medoff. Is it a vote sort of thing? The one thing I do want to avoid is any sort of editorializing Ted Morris: No,you just tell us what to do,and we will do on the part of the staff for this board's work. it. Chuck McLean: The last time we actually asked you if you Jim Boykin: Well,someone make a motion. wanted to release them,right? And,my recommendation was,available upon request. I thought there could have been Stephanie Medoff: He said we don't need one. a whole bunch of embarrassing..... Ted Morris: You can make a motion,you can do whatever Ted Morris: If I could just make a comment about this thing, you want,but we will produce whatever you ask us for is that this has come up very handy,for example, in the Madam Chairman. discussion of the West Mesa Flying Association's fuel tank. We sent Mr.Darden a letter and said,here is what the board Stephanie Medoff. Alright,than I move until further notice approved,what your resolution was. And,he came back and we continue with the verbatim minutes. said, tell Susan to listen to it again because that is not what we said." Well,in fact,it was exactly what you all had said Gene Kennon: I'll second that. and voted on. So,verbatim transcripts are very useful,they do take up a lot of time,but we can resolve that,I mean we Stephanie Medoff: All those in favor,say aye. can get it done. Frank Dailey: I think you can resolve that by saving the Gene Kennon: Aye. tapes. Stephanie Medoff. Opposed? There are no ayes on the tape, but there are a lot of hands raised. Motion carried. Stephanie Medoff: I'm not going to come up here and listen to the tope. I would rather have the type written words at my Ted Morris: We will provide whatever administrative house. If someone calls me,I can refer to the minutes,and support you desire. here is what we said. Chuck McLean: I think having the record is great. Stephanie Medoff: Let's do verbatim until further notice. Chuck McLean: You know,we should have approved the Stephanie Medoff. I think that we are at this particular time overtime for Susan. at the point where it is a very important part of the administrative load to have everything that is said on record Stephanie Medoff. Well,I think this is an important part of written down. As things cool off,we may decide differently. her job at this point and time. Alright,unfinished business. Do you want to take care of the ordinance first,or the Ted Morris: There will be a number of contentious issues manager's report? that come up in the next six or eight months. Ted Morris: Everything that I have provided is in the order I Stephanie Medoff: How do we deal with the minutes? Is this would talk about in the manager's report. a motion sort of thing? Stephanie Medoff: Alright,than let's do the manager's Chuck McLean: I guess we are still discussing it. You report. sounded like you wanted to make a motion. Ted Morris: I'm not sure there is any unfinished business left Stephanie Medoff' Is this the sort of thing you make a over that we are still working on from the last meeting. Is motion of? there? Ted Morris: Just tell us what to do,and we will do it as a Frank Dailey: Yes,two meetings ago. Madam Chairman staff. We will produce whatever minutes you want. was going to contract the man on the City Council. Stephanie Medoff. Well,I personally like verbatim minutes Stephanie Medoff. He wasn't here that time,and I wasn't a lot. here last time,and I talked with the Mayor,and he was going to make sure that he knew about it. I talked to the Mayor on Ted Morris: Then,that is what we will do. Saturday. Stephanie Medoff: And, if they are too lengthy to read,you Chuck McLean: Okay,so without a verbatim transcript,we don't have to read them. That is my feelings at this point. are talking about,I know what you are talking about. Chuck McLean: I don't have any trouble with the reading, Stephanie Medoff. Henry Gustafson,our City Councillor. it's the transcribing. Chuck McLean: There is a City Council Liaison that Stephanie Medoff: I was very interested to read what Jim normally attended 100%of the time when Gene was in that said. Reading the words that Jim said,I can see exactly position. The new one has not attended. where he is coming from,and his intent. I didn't see the body language. I didn't see the facial expressions,but Frank Dailey: He hasn't been here for two years. a LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 3 of 38 Ted Morris: By the way,for those of you in the back,the location of the east end gate,I'm sorry the west endate. handouts are right up here if you want anything. So,you The physical location of the west end gate,Mesilla Valley want me to go on with the report? Aviation, if I can point it out on this picture right here,the gate right now everybody knows is right here by this big Stephanie Medoff. Yes,please. retention pond. Mesilla Valley Aviation has requested that we construct a fence that is a pretty extensive,and so on and Ted Morris: AIP Project 12,which is the old Taxiway C so forth,and place the gateway down here some place,and Project,the FAA grants have been approved and received. some other things. I proposed to them at one time,that we The state grants are all received. The contract is going to come forward to their leasehold,and not intrude on Mr. C.S.McCrossan,it is going to run about 1.2 million total,and Kading's leasehold,and not onto federally constructed ramp we will have a pre-construction conference that Molzen- which we would have to buy back,and a bunch of other Corbin will set up. It will probably be next week,or the things. To basically use the south edge of their building as week after. the fence line,come to the edge of their property here,and come across the road. Now,we are going to ask the FAA if Jim Boykin: Where is this C.S.McCrossan from? we can do that,and we are going to try and do it if it doesn't cost any more money than what is already allocated for Ted Morris: Here. fencing. Stephanie Medoff. Did anybody see this Sun-News article Stephanie Medoff: And then what does that mean,that you about the City Council meeting,Tuesday, September 16th? can get into... Councillors approved the choice of C.S.McCrossan Construction as reconstructor of the Las Cruces taxiway. All Ted Morris: That means,that they will no longer have access three Councillors present at the session expressed concern to where they park at this time,unless they put in their own about the choice. gate in the fence,a manual gate. They will have to park along the street on the south side of their building. There is a Ted Morris: In your package,there is a copy of the verbatim number of problems with this whole thing,they built their City Council minutes. Now the minutes from the 2nd are building so close to their parcel line there is no room to approved,and the ones from the 15th are unapproved,but maneuver a vehicle in there unless we intrude onto federally you can read verbatim what these guys said. The issue they constructed ramp,and someone else's leasehold with a fence had about this was that McCrossan had done a couple of t nermit them to maneuver to park on the east side of the projects for the City. One,an extension of Dunn and(unclear building. word)road,way out on Highway 70,and another where they did the realignment of Elks Drive,and they have done some Stephanie Medoff. So,that's the problem with Lou Braddi's other projects over the years. According to the City plan? Engineers office,they started out where there were a number of complaints and problems with them fulfilling their contract Ted Morris: That is correct. We would have to buy the ramp obligations,but,by the time the did,for example,the Elks back,and the current cost of that quality of construction of Drive realignment,that they didyeverything according to the ramp is about anywhere from 12 to 15 dollars per square contract,and they did it quite well. The problem was,you yard. had 20,000 cars a day,driving down a road that was under construction,and there were a lot of citizen complaints about Stephanie Medoff: So,you are saying that the fence would how long it is taking,so on and so forth. But,they actually butt into the two sides of their building,and the backside did do exactly what they were suppose to do according to the would be outside the fence line? contract. So,there was a lot of discussion about that,there was nobody from McCrossan at the meeting to assure the Ted Morris: That is correct. The south edge of their City Council that they would do a good job on this. But,this building,and we could even put it up around their pedestrian is the kind of work that they typically do and the City door,you know,make a little nook there for them. But, Engineer is satisfied with the quality of their work on recent again,I need to point out that the grant has been written,the projects,and so therefore the City Council accepted the bid. contract has been signed,and this is a Change Order. If this Change Order costs no more,then perhaps we could do this, Jim Boykin: Nobody in this area is going to miss an and combined with the getting rid of the two-way gates,and opportunity to complain. all this other stuff,perhaps there will be a savings in this fence plan. I would also like to point out to the board,that I Ted Morris: That may be. The next thing we have to do is, proposed this compromise with Mr.Jones on at least two sponsor certification documents we are going to send up to occasions in the past,and he rejected it out of hand. the office in Albuquerque,and a redesign o the gates. Let me explain the situation with the gates. We had asked the Stephanie Medoff. Oh,really? contractor to design the four gates that are going to go in. Hal's gate wasgomg to be a single span opening gate,slide- Chuck McLean: Well,not on his property. I say march on. opening gate. 'The other three,at the west end,east end,and at the terminal,were going to be double gates that would Stephanie Medoff: I think it is important that we try to open in the appropriate driving lane,so as you pulled in it accommodate the tenants.... would open on the right,and you pulled out it would open on the right as you were pulling out. The FAA will not do that Chuck McLean: Where would the gate actually be,at the kind of gate for this kind of airport. They will build a 16 foot west end? wide single gate right in the middle of the street. They may build a double thing similar to what we have in front of the Ted Morris: The gate would be at the western border terminal,where one side is motorized,and the other is not, of...their leasehold comes down basically where the tail of and that is what I'm going to ask them to build so that at this aircraft(unclear words). It would move about 200 feet some future time the City may want to put its own motor on from its current location towards the west. it. But also,we would have a backup manually opening gate when the thing starts breaking down in the future. So, Stephanie Medoff: Let me get this real clear. anyway,we are putting together the plan,and we are going to send it forward. There is another issue,and that is,the i t 7�Ir LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 4 of 38 Chuck McLean: And,Harry I think remembers,even way Hal Kading: If the gate gets relocated,then... back when you were on the board,we talked about doing it. Ted Morris: Then,they would have to come up and drive (Unclear words-several people speaking at one time.) along...they would have to come in here,and drive up here, and across the paved road that we made to these areas. Jim Boykin: No,you can't drive in there any more. Chuck McLean: You never should have been able to drive in Stephanie Medoff. Well,I think that's alright. there. You can't take a hard right after you get to the end... Chuck McLean: It is a sacrifice with the security,and with Ted Morris: Yes,you can. I am going to try and put in a the safety that is involved,I think. manually opened swing gate. I think it would be easiest to Stephanie Medoff: And,I think we should be real careful not talk off this,which is in your package. This is the pavement to be penny wise,and pound foolish,and make enemies. I maintenance schedule that is coming up,but, if you'll look at don't understand why Mesilla Valley Aviation doesn't like this,you can see where the retention basin is here. I'll give this plan. everybody a chance to fmd it. Okay,this is the retention basin,and the gate runs right here,and their parcel is a one- Chuck McLean: This gate isn't being used to load cargo on. acre piece right here. Now,the proposal that we have is just They could pull in,and park right against it on the south side to rebuild the gate in place. Mr.Jones' proposal,and Mr. of their building. Hell,there is room for 20 cars. Braddi's proposal was to run the fence up from its current I due north,to the northern wall of their hangar,and Ted Morris: They can park in the street,just like you can then run it to the west,and that would intrude upon ramp that park on the side of any street. we are not allowed to do this to,and then come out the other side,and some other things. The main reason is because they Stephanie Medoff. Is this an issue where when you present built their building within 20 feet of the parcel line,which this to...what are you going to do first see what the cost doesn't give them enough room to maneuver a car if there would be,or present it to Dale Jones f=irst,which do you do? were a fence along side of that road. The compromise which I believe would satisfy their desire to permit unimpeded Ted Morris: I am waiting for some sort of formal request access by their customers,by road,would be to extend the from Mesilla Valley Aviation. I know they have contacted fence toward the west and tie in to their south wall,and then either the Mayor or City Manager directly with their fencing continue from the southwest corner of their building to the plan,and that I have provided information to Mr.Ericson so edge of their property line,and down across,put the electric that he could respond to that. The City's staff position at this gate right here,and run the fence back up along the other side point,which is my position,and Mr.Ericson's position,is to of the road to this location. I think that we can do that. Now, go with the compromise proposal,and put in the new gate. Mesilla Valley Aviation,I have no idea what their response will be. In the past it's been that they don't want this. Chuck McLean: So moved. Chuck McLean: The whole objective when we first looked at Jim Boykin: I'll second that. this,when personalities were a little different,was that people gaining access,their customers which they certainly deserve, Stephanie Medoff. All those in favor? to have access to the airport and their building,then automatically had access to the whole damn airport. Some All Members: Aye. kid comes out for a hour of dual,and drives around on the ramp for twenty minutes. Stephanie Medoff: Opposed? Ted Morris: And,this happens all the time. Bill Madden: That does include a job,so that their people door is on the street side,right? Stephanie Medoff: Is there room than for their customers to park on the south end of their building? Chuck McLean: Sure. Ted Morris: Yes. Ted Morris: Or a pedestrian gate. Stephanie Medoff: And,they could put a door in there Chuck McLean: Sure,and that gives them a lot better (unclear words)? control. Ted Morris: No,they have a pedestrian door. I'm going to Ted Morris: I think,depending on who you talk to in that ask them to put in a swing gate. Now,you can put in a swing hangar,depends on the answer you get,and Mike Lee wants gate if the feds decide not to. thegate to stay right where it is,for example. But,he would not like to see a jog to their pedestrian door. He would rather Chuck McLean: But,that wouldn't be for routine business, see a pedestrian gate,where they could lock that. Now they that would be for(unclear words-several people have a double lock on their building,the pedestrial gate,and speaking).... so on and so forth. But any way,we will work it out with them. Ted Morris: And,we paved that specifically to provide that access. Frank Dailey: I think there is one thing we have to keep in mind too,that every time you put a gate in...(unclear words). Frank Dailey: If there was a Change Order,would that cost a lot more money? Stephanie Medoff: Is this a case where the board should meet with Mesilla Valley Aviation,and hammer this out,or Ted Morris: That is what I am trying to say,I don't know can it be done through staff? what it is going to cost. Ted Morris: I will take care of it,and if something comes up Frank Dailey: Generally,Change Orders add to the bill. I'll come back to the board. 3 t LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 5 of 38 Jim Boykin: The way I look at the organization chart,we're first page,lists all the sponsors,has a review of each of the a dotted line to Ted,and that is about it. We are a hard line to years involved,it has a page regarding our goals and the City Council,we are not suppose to negotiate with all petitioning grants. And,assuming that we have a fund these people. raising success,we intend to offer a$750 grant to High School students(unclear words). Also,we wish to offer,the Ted Morris: Where your help could come in is,you approve same type of grant to dependent High Schoolers and military the idea of let's accommodate something down there,and at units(unclear words). What this is going to do to us first of some point there may be a request for a Change Order. all,every event in town is either got a page established,or is in the process of developing a pagge. We will be able to sell Jim Boykin: This is an open forum,anybody can come here basically sponsorships. We will be able to provide links to and say what ever they want. sponsors,the First National Bank for instance,has a home page(unclear words)which provides an input to people Ted Morris: That's right. Where you all might come in coming into the community,either permanently or handy is,if the City Council appears that it doesn't want to temporarily. The Mariachi Conference is already developing do a Change Order,or approve an increase in expenses,or a page. (Unclear words.) It allows us to introduce the something like that. Then,you could explain the issue to performers,we have a page with each performer,whether them. they wish to provide a home page with their schedule and so forth. But,basically this allows us to provide a means of Stephanie Medoff. I think it is an important issue. fund raising. We also have an agreement with L&T Business Card Enterprises,they have six or seven locations in Chuck McLean: If you've got another business west of them, town,where a company can display their business card,for a really,this could happen again,I think. But,Ted has sort of very,very small amount of money,they are donating 20%of reserved that area for an entrance to the Fire Station. their profits. So,through these efforts,we hope to not only make up the short fall,but also be able to build up funds in Ted Morris: Well,the Master Plan did. The thing is,that order to do these extra things. We have established the 13th way we don't have to pay$15.00 a square yard to eat up of September for 1998,of course we need a new ramp to put up a Fire Station. Okay,Airport Policy,the next Memorandum of Understanding. We have invited,we are thing you have in your packet is based on a number of issues going to invite if we haven't already,the four previous that have arisen,and a number of conversations with senior ribbon cutters to participate in the ribbon cut. The individual staff,and elected officials,and that sort of thing,and my we are considering now,we can't release that name(unclear guidance now is to produce an Ordinance for the airport,and words). We have a letter to the Red Baron aerobatics team, this is for your perusal. We will discuss it next month,and I they are considering coming in to perform for us. The will try and get more information to you. What this does is, biggest problem there will be,is trying to provide hangar simplifies the policies down to those things that we would space for the five aircraft. They usually come in the actually fine someone for doing. The rest of it will have a Wednesday before,and provide orientation flights to complimentary resolution establishing the fees and charges, members of the community,sponsors,and so forth. We have estabblishing the boilerplate for the leases,and so on and so a letter to Joann Osterud,you know she had her accident forth. I just wanted to give this to you guys to look at,and (unclear words. We also have Boris Baird available for next comment on between now and the next meeting,or we will year,as well. o basically the approach we have taken,is to discuss it at some point,and that is that,unless there are any upgrade the show,and we feel this page on the world wide questions? What I did,by the way,to produce this thing is,I site(unclear words). Do you have any questions? dust took those policies and just threw away everything that was excess verbiage. Auto Sunshades- we will have a pre- Stephanie Medoff: What was the financial story this year? con,Gene,here at 10:00 in the morning on Monday,October 7,or wait a minute,what is that,Wednesday? Jack Rosenow: We still have some donations coming in. It Stephanie Medoff: What is a pre-con? was a lose in the neighborhood of about$3,000. Stephanie Medoff. Who absorbs that lose? Ted Morris: A preconstruction conference, it's Tuesday actually,at 10:00 AM,and we will get to work on that shortly Jack Rosenow: I do. after. Stephanie Medoff: A pre-con with whom? Stephanie Medoff: You,personally? Jack Rosenow: Yes,madam. Ted Morris: With the contractor,the guyy who is going to do the work,the company that is going to do the work,they will Chuck McLean: The City is not going to help you? be here,and we will go over and look,and they will come up with a schedule of events. The next thing is Aviation Day. Jack Rosenow: The City does plenty. They provided all of The MOA between the City and the Aviation Day Committee the support for the airport,and we feel that with this program, expired yesterday. I have included in your packet a critique I I consider it an investment. did of that MOA,for your review. I sent it to Mr.Ericson, and to Stephanie. I felt at least for the City's side,we were Frank Dailey: I thought the City Council said that they unable to meet the requirement of providing a legal and would go along with some kind of cost? safety review within three days,and you can read that at your leisure. I understand that Mr.Rosenow is here. Would you Jack Rosenow: We did not ask the City for financial support. like to address this now? Chuck McLean: You didn't ask,but,I almost remember Stephanie Medoff. Certainly,Jack. them volunteering. Jack Rosenow: What I wanted to do primarily is to give you Stephanie Medoff. I think they did also,up to a certain an update as to what the Committee is doing in the means of amount,like$2,500? fund raising. Aviation Day is now on the World Wide Web, with a web site developed by Art Schobey Photographic. It Jack Rosenow: I don't recall any. has basically eight pages,and runs through a history on the - s z LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2,1997 Page 6 of 38 Chuck McLean: Stephanie has a great mind. That is the Stephanie Medoff: Everybody just take a minute to read this same figure I remember. memo. Ted Morris: That was part of the original proposal,wherein Jack Rosenow: Well,first of all,we did assist in setting up the City would be the sponsor. That was not the end result of the barrels. The barrels were kept short of the(unclear the Memorandum of Agreement. words)in order to move Mesa out,without displacing them. As it turned out,Mesa came in late,and had to be displaced. Frank Dailey: Jack,let's talk about the day itself,how you The roadway signage was the responsibilityof the Mesilla think it went. Do you have any critique? Valley(unclear words). As far as the ramp is concerned,I personally drove the ramp,and there was no trash I could Jack Rosenow: I am very,very,pleased with the,we did find. There were four coke containers in the volunteer area, have a problem with the military displays,and that was due which I personally picked up,and I don't know of any other to the delay. We didn't start until Apr trash that was left on the ramp. This has been a contention Ted Morris: No it wasn't. for years. Jack Rosenow: By the time we got to the DOD form,the Stephanie Medoff: How about observation 3? units were already committed(unclear words). The impact of Jack Rosenow: I'm not sure what he means by a the delay also caused problems with the fund raising efforts Representative on site at all times. I was out here the entire as well. The show,we felt, was the best we have ever had day,as was the Ground Boss(unclear words). I don't know (unclear words). The Flair Helicopter I thought did a superb what you mean by participants,spectators,or concession fob,much better than the year before there was excellent vendors were on the airside. I'm assuming that's beyond the coverage on the TV stations out of EI Paso. Boris Baird did barrels(unclear words). an outstanding job. The 117 came down to 500 feet,and did a very nice job for us. Ted Morris: No,sir. That's anytime you get onto the apron, or ramp,or the aircraft operating areas,that's the airside of Gene Kennon: Three passes this time. an airport,and the requirement in the Memorandum of Understanding,was that any time that anybody was out there, Jack Rosenow: Yes,three passes,and did a real niceob. not just the day of the event,the day before,the set up day, That aircraft,by the, a ,left Toledo that morning,which the tear down periods,all that sort of thing. meant a refiiel m mid Texas,or central Texas,and did the show on its way home. General(unclear words)stayed Jack Rosenow: I was there all day,most the day on Friday, around for Saturday night,and we expressed our appreciation most the day on Saturday,all day on Sunday. Had a to him for his support for that. And,of course,the committee member out here to make sure the coke booth was performance of Ole Olson,I thought was exceptional placed in a proper position,and I'm not sure what else you (unclear words). So,overall,I have nothing but good expected of the committee. comments from people(unclear words). I would like to try, assuming your concurrent,to have a Memorandum of Ted Morris: I expected someone to be there in accordance Understanding in place by the second week in October. with the Memorandum of Agreement. Gene Kennon: Jack,do you suppose next year you could get Jack Rosenow: During what hours? a waiver to land the F-117? Ted Morris: Any time that any of these people were on the Jack Rosenow: That is an Air Force restriction. The Air airside. Force requires a 10,000 foot runway,or restraining devices. Stephanie Medoff. And Jack,you're saying that you were Gene Kennon: General Carlson said he could sign a waiver there? for that sort of thing,when I talked to him. Jack Rosenow: I had either myself,I had Tom Vincent out Jack Rosenow: I talked to him later,and I don't think that he here to get the missile in place. had the support of air combat training for that. I think he wanted to do it,but(unclear words). Ted Morris: After 4:00 in the afternoon on Sunday,there was no one from the committee ever here. Gene Kennon: It would be an extra plus. Jack Rosenow: I was at the airport until 6:30 PM,and I Jack Rosenow: I think that General Carlson had indicated personally went through the ramp area,and looked for trash, the possibility,but particularly with the fact that they had a couldn't find any. problem recently,I don't think they are going to approve that,and waive the Air Force restriction. Ted Morris: Sir,you must not have walked the same ramp. Gene Kennon: It might be worth trying,at least. Jack Rosenow: Well,I was out there,and(unclear words) discussion on the gliders out there. I was on the ramp,and Jack Rosenow: I can talk to him about it. helped get all the equipment lined up. Gene Kennon: It's a nice looking logo,who ever designed Ted Morris: Mr. Woolmer,and Mr.Miranda spent most of the F-117 to be a part of that logo. the day Monday cleaning up,and the vendors were not removed from the ramp until Monday. The missile did not Stephanie Medoff: Should we all look at Ted's memo about go away for a couple of days. Aviation Day? It's in your packet,the next thing up. Jack Rosenow: That was all coordinated with the airport Gene Kennon: I thought the Ole Olson,the technique of management. We had people out here,it was supposed to be ground to air conversation,that added a lot. removed by Monday. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 7 of 38 Ted Morris: No,sir. The requirement was that everything be and Joe Gold made,and I thought that it was well done,by off the ramp by 8:00 Sunday evening. the way,and he congratulated them for helping. I saw Ted out there taking the barrels down,and the tape,and so forth, Jack Rosenow: (Unclear words.) I don't control when these and it seemed to me like there were some other people people pick up there... helping out. It didn't look to me like there was much of a problem,so I guess I'm a little bit(unclear words)by this Ted Morris: Sir,that is the responsibility of the committee. becoming an issue. When you are using a public apron,that is the responsibility of the committee,I think. Not only to adhere to the Stephanie Medoff.- Who were the other people that were requirements of the Memorandum of Agreement,but also to helping? clean up the ramp. Stephanie Medoff: If this were a City sponsored event, Ted Morris: They were City employees. would this not be an issue? The City employees would clean Jim Boykin: When you have a voluntary thing like this up the ramp. going, it would seem like everybody would be able to do whatever was necessary,and it seemed to me like it went off Ted Morris: The City employees did clean up the ramp. very nicely. I was going to congratulate everybody concerned about it. I thought that it was well done,so I'm a Stephanie Medoff: But, if it were a City sponsored event, little surprised... that would be fine,it would not be an issue? Ted Morris: Remember,this critique is of the Memorandum Ted Morris: I don't know. We would have to determine of Agreement. whatever the responsibilities were. Who is going to be the Committee Chairman,what is the committee going to consist Jim Boykin: Was the Memorandum of Agreement ever of? Is it going to be similar to the Fourth of July Committee, finalized? in which it is a Citysponsored event,but it is a citizens group that runs the event? Right now,the air show is similar to the Ted Morris: Yes,sir. It was approved by the City Council, Whole Enchilada Committee,which is not...the City provides and signed by the Mayor. Police service,and Fire service,and blocks off streets,and that sort of thing,but has no sponsorship of the Whole Jim Boykin: So,is the complaint that Jack's people,and Jack Enchilada,for example. Those are all things we began in particular,did not comply with the Memorandum of discussing last year,but never concluded the discussion. Agreement? Jim Boykin: Was there a safety problem at all? Ted Morris: That is correct,sir. Jack Rosenow: There was no safety problem,everything was Jim Boykin: Was there a big imposition on somebody? Was clear of the terminal area. there money paid,or something like that for people to do this? Chuck McLean: You mean,having stuff parked on the ramp? Ted Morris: Yes, sir. Jim Boykin: Well,I mean,after all, it's not like we are Stephanie Medoff. Was it overtime? Washington National Airport. Was there something... Ted Morris: Let me put it this way,Jim. Had we not gone Ted Morris: Yes,overtime pay for the City workers. out,had I not gone out,and personally moved the barrels and Jim Boykin: Was that on Sunday? taken the tape down,had my folks notone out and done the ramp clean up,and further move barrels around,and that sort Ted Morris: Yes,sir,and then Monday,we had to do work of thing,there would have been a safety problem,and an on Monday to clean up the area. The point is,the operational concern as well. Memorandum of Agreement set out responsibilities for the City,and responsibilities for the Committee,and my point is, Jim Boykin: Were you putting the barrels up after the thing? that the City was unable to fulfill one of its requirements, which was to provide the safety and legal review within three Ted Morris: Yes, sir,I was. days. The other points here are,that the Committee did not fulfill all of its requirements,as well. Jim Boykin: I was right up there,over there,watching you, and I was watching him doing the same thing,and he was Jack Rosenow: When we came out here,all the barrels were over here talking to the kids who had done stuff over here, strewn all over the area,placed by your people on the ramp. and I don't understand the complaint. Everybody was trying to do what they were trying to do,to finish the thing up,as Ted Morris: And the point is,that you were suppose to far as I was concerned. Are we getting hung up on knit- have.... picking here? Jack Rosenow: We left the barrels where they were,because Ted Morris: I don't think so,sir. I think the requirement you folks were suppose (missing words due to changing was,that the committee have total responsibility for setting tope). And then rt was the responsibility of the City to have up,and tearing down the event,and they did not do that. whoever they got them from to pick them up,and remove them from the ramp. That was our understanding. Now,the Stephanie Medoff: Jim,you're saying that you saw kids coke machine,the trailers that were there,were picked up on taking barrels and tape down? Monday. That was the earliest we could get those people out there for that. Other than that,everything else was moved Jim Boykin: No,the kids didn't take the barrels down. Jack out. We're talking about trash,every year I have gone over was over here,and they were all lined up,and he was telling this ramp,and not seen any trash. When we are talking about them that they had done a fine job,and stuff like that,and I trash,you're expecting to have stuff all over,there just was was standing out there on top of that thing that Billy Moody not any trash that I saw,anywhere in the area. I drove the J LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 8 of 38 entire ramp,and picked up all the chairs that were strewn wasn't anybody to move them. Mr.Rosenow's committee around for the volunteers,and so forth,and did not see any did notprovide anyone to set up that end of the thing,as trash what-so-ever,everything else was cleared out as it required,or take them down. should have been. Jim Boykin: Who was suppose to pick these barrels up? Jim Boykin: Obviously,there is a difference of opinion there,but,I don't think that it is an important difference at Ted Morris: The committee,and move them away,and then this point. we rent them from R-Squared. Frank Dailey: I was there about a quarter to four in the Jim Boykin: The City rented the barrels,I'm trying to afternoon,and I couldn't see any trash. I didn't notice any understand this,and brought them out here,right? trash,or any big accumulation,for sure. Jim Boykin: When I was in the Air Force,I went to Ted Morris: Yes,sir. Squadron Officers course once,and they had this saying Jim Boykin: And they were out here in some kind of a half- where they said:"Two percent don't get the word." You can hazard manner. telephone,telegraph,television,tell a women,and I'm sure now a da s you can put it on the inter-net,and still two Ted Morris: No,they weren't half-hazard,at all. percent don t get the word. This sounds like a minor communications problem to me and I don't know why it Jack Rosenow: They were piled in various bunches in the couldn't be worked out for the suture. But,all these things middle of the ramp. are,learned procedures,they are not ever good,especially when you have volunteers,you can't get them all to know Jim Boykin: Okay,let's go on by that,and then finally they exactly everything they're suppose to do,it is a difficult thing got lined up,and we got the tape on the things,and... to do. I think we need to just work together in the future,and forget about the past,and try to learn from it. Ted Morris: The City did that. Stephanie Medoff: It sounds to me,from what Jack is Jack Rosenow: I had people out there to put the barrels,we saying,that in good faith,his committee moved the barrels to kept them short of the area,in order to keep the area(unclear where they thought they should be. word),which we agreed to the day of the event,and put the line there to allow Mesa to not be displaced,and as soon as Jack Rosenow: Basically,they were placed on the ramp... that was over,(unclear words)we started moving barrels. I had members of the committee help move barrels in line, Ted Morris: They didn't move the barrels. and put up the tape. Now,what we ve got here is a little bit of a strained relation,I can understand that. I am a little bit Jack Rosenow: The barrels were on the ramp,and were concerned about continuing this,I would just as soon have picked up by the vendor that you got them from,basically. this thing buried. Let me try and understand, if in fact, 'm not sure where we should have moved them. interpretation of the Memorandum is that I am suppose to have the Committee take the barrels when they were out there Stephanie Medoff: You're saying,they were still lined up? strewed in the first place,and personally put all of those barrels up against the fence,then that will have to be Ted Morris: No,we went out,the City went out,and picked specified. them up,and put them in clusters to open up the ramp. Frank Dailey: Can I ask a question? You said you had to get Stephanie Medoff: So,what you are saying was you wanted City employees to do this? the Aviation Day Committee to put them into clusters? Ted Morris: No,madam,I wanted the Aviation Day Ted Morris: Yes,sir. Committee to remove them from the ramp,as the Frank Dailey: How much did it cost? Memorandum of Agreement specified. To take them,and move them up against the fence. Ted Morris: A couple of hundred dollars. Stephanie Medoff: Just move them up against the fence? Frank Dailey: A couple of hundred dollars. How many Not take them all the way to where they went? people are you talking about? Jim Boykin: Was this a communications problem? Ted Morris: Well,we actually talked about the amount of overtime,and stuff like that. We had a total of six City Ted Morris: The requirement in the Memorandum of employees out there at one time or another. Agreement was,to return the airport to its original condition by 8:00 in the evening on Sunday. That is the requirement. Frank Dailey: They were scheduled? Jim Boykin: Well,in this particular case,it was obviously Ted Morris: I scheduled them. impossible to do that. Ted Morris: That seems to be the case,and as a result,the Frank Dailey: It had nothing to do with just moving barrels? City... Ted Morris: If I had not had to take down the ramp,I would have released all those people at 4:00 in the afternoon,when Jack Rosenow: Well,basically,they were in the same the event was over. Instead,they stayed,and they came in position as they were when we picked them up. Basically, the next day,and had to do a lot of work. It is a piddling they were out on the ramp,and picked up by the people who amount of money,and my point is... dropped them off. Ted Morris: The reason they were out on the ramp was Frank Dailey: We're wasting our time talking about it. because,if we would have put them by the fence,then there • 1 � LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 9 of 38 Ted Morris: That's right,I believe we are wasting our time a lot of hours to develop this web page at no cost. What we talking about this issue. are trying to do is to build up something that is beneficial. If the bank wants to sponsor a web page,they are getting the Stephanie Medoff: So,we can take this as a learning benefit to that,and they will be told that money will go into experience,and next year,we will make it even more clear the Committee to help not only ease the short fall,but try to where those barrels should end up by 5:00 PM on Sunday expand our efforts,like the scholarship,and grants,and so night. forth. I think it would be rather ludicrous now with the money we have invested,and the efforts we have taken to tell Gene Kennon: I have no qualms about having the City us we are no longer going to be running the event. (Unclear employees to that,really. The City is furnishing things,and I words.) think we can all be grateful for that,but also,when you are trying to put something together like this on a volunteer Stephanie Medoff: I just question who would want to basis,there are a lot of details to take care,and it would seem contribute money for a short fall for an event two years ago? to me that it would make the Chairman's Job a little bit easier, I can see people maybe wanting to contribute for a better if the City employees could take care of it. show next year,but I really can t picture somebody wanting Ted Morris: I think the original issue though sir,was the to contribute to make up a short fall. City has no place in the planning or anything else. In other Jack Rosenow: If I go to a sponsor,the sponsor for the event words,the City would commit to spending taxpayers money is the 98 show,they are not making up a short fall. The on this event,without having any say so in how the event was people who do business with L&-T Enterprises,business structured,or when things would be set up,and so on and so card,they are buying the cards to display. That company is forth. That is why when you get down to the bottom on my giving us funds into the Committee to help us out. thing,that the recommendation that was made last year,that we all remember,had an inclusive committee that ran the Stephanie Medoff: So,you are saying,only those funds thing with this board overseeing its activities,and therefore would go towards the short fall? that there was some accountability for how Aviation Day was structured. Jack Rosenow: Correct. Probably use the web site,if I go to a bank and say,would you like to sponsor,they're Jim Boykin: What do we need to be accountable for this sponsoring that for that benefit right there. time,that we are not accountable for now? If this board is suppose to be accountable,or if we are suppose to assign Ted Morris: Can I ask a question? Right up here I accountability,what is the accountability that we should take mentioned that there is no record of the Committee being care of for this particular time? I would like to be incorporated,or especially being incorporated as a nonprofit. accountable,and get it over with. Jack Rosenow: That is correct. Ted Morris: The only thing that I'm doing here,is providing this for you to think about and make a recommendation if Ted Morris: So,that is the correct status? It is a not you need to. incorporated committee. Jack Rosenow: Let me put out something. I am very proud Jack Rosenow: We have a CPA right now working with us of the Committee,and the work they did. They had less than to try to get us on 5013C,what ever the nomenclature is,as a six months to put this whole thing together,and you can not nonprofit. find any group in the City that could have done what they did,and make up for that delay. We have an investment now Stephanie Medoff. Do you have to be that before you can of about$6,000. We have an opppportunity to try to get that except sponsorships,or any funds off of the web site? money back(unclear words). We have gone the extra mile in trying to get this established,and a quality committee to work Jack Rosenow: No. beside. We have individuals prepared to put money into it to help sponsor(unclear words). Ted Morris: You can give money to anybody you want. Stephanie Medoff: I have a question. Did your last Jack Rosenow: What you've got is outfits like Target,for statement mean that any money that is fund raised off the instance,the only ones they donate to are official non-profit. Internet,would first be to pay back the$6,000 short fall from the last two years? Chuck McLean: Otherwise,they can't take a tax break. Jack Rosenow: That is correct. What we are saying is,if we Stephanie Medoff. So,that would have to be your first order have someone who wants to sponsor an act,that goes into the of business? 98 show. If there are people who participate in the web,and in the business cards,then that money will go to the Jack Rosenow: We already have a CPA working on that,and Committee to help make up the short falls from the previous that is one of our goals. What they do right now is a three years that we have had short falls. sponsorship, it's a business expense to a company. It's advertising,just like they advertise in newspapers. With this, Stephanie Medoff. And that is clear to the people who would 5013C,it becomes a deduction,okay? And we are trying,we contribute? are working with Lisa Lohman,she is working on researching for us 5013C. We have an attorney who is Jack Rosenow: Yes,we have made it clear to people. What interested in helping us out. We hope to have that done in we hope to do with this type of thing is to limit ourselves the near future,but we have to go one step at a time. with major sponsors with your primary event like Joann,or Ole Olson,which are about$3,000 items,and that is where Stephanie Medoff: So,there is a$3,000 short fall coming out the namegets out directly sponsoring an event. Now we of your pocket again this year? And what was it last year,the have to rely totally on sponsorships,where here the business same? people are getting the benefit of the displays,and there is no cost out of their pocket to support the event,that is given to Jack Rosenow: No, it was about$1,400. Right now we are us by the companies involved. Art Schobey put in one hell of about$6,000. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 10 of 38 Stephanie Medoff: And is that for two years,or three years? minor legalistic point that should not be allowed to get in the way of us having a nice air show. Jack Rosenow: Three years. Ted Morris: I think then,if we would like to go away from Stephanie Medoff Three years,all out of your pocket. How all this stuff,then the evaluation of what does the City want, much of this year's short fall is insurance costs? or what does this board want concerning Aviation Day, concerning an aviation event on the airfield...you know we Jack Rosenow: Insurance was$1,853,a business license was had Bomber Week,we had Aviation Day,we talked about $150. various other events,air races and things of that nature. Right now we have a lot of people with their ownprivate air Stephanie Medoff: So, if you would be willing for this to be shows using the City airport,and the City is spending a City sponsored event,would be ahead$1,800 out of your taxpayers money on that stuff. own pocket today,because the City would have self insured it. Jim Boykin: What private air shows? Jack Rosenow: That is correct. Ted Morris: Jack's private air show,the Confederate Air Force private air show,these are each not public events in the Ted Morris: And you would not have to go to the expense of sense that the public is sponsoring them. becoming a 5013C. Stephanie Medoff: Yet,you still feel unwilling to have the Jim Boykin: What does it cost the public to do this? City involved in it for next year? Ted Morris: It costs us in time,effort,energy,manpower, and all the rest of that sort of thing. Jack Rosenow: We would rather remain independent. Jim Boykin: How much overtime did you spend for the Stephanie Medoff And why is that? bomber event? Jack Rosenow: Because,we have the experience in doing the Ted Morris: None. The bomber event did exactly as we job. We feel that to go any other way would be an requested. They provided the insurance,they got the encumbrance. business registration,they were a tax exempt... Stephanie Medoff Why do you feel thatjust being a City Jim Boykin: So,is this all about somebody getting your sponsored event would make it go any other way? Are you approval about this thing for it to happen? assuming that if it were a City sponsored event,then the people who have worked on it previously would be asked not Ted Morris: No,sir,not at all. What it is,is we spent$3,000 to work on it? this year on Aviation Day,the City did,in direct manpower expenses,rental of porta-potties,the barrels,buying tape,and Jack Rosenow: No. But chances are,they may not work on all that other sort of thing. Now,that is$3,000 in taxpayer it. (Unclear words.) funds. Jim Boykin: Well,you remember when we went down to Stephanie Medoff There were no barrels or porta-potties that Bright thing whatever it was,we were talking to the involved with the Confederate Air Force coming? Mayor afterwards about all this stuff. He made the point to me,that the Big Enchilada,and this thing out here,and Ted Morris: They took care of all of that,they rented all that everything else depends pretty much,well 85-90%,on stuff. There was not any expense to the City for all of that. volunteers,and he would like to have more volunteers. So,I What I am trying to say, is that there are two separate events think the basic problem is,if you begin to make it into some this year,each year there have been two separate events, kind of a municipal exercise,instead of the way we are, perhaps there should only be one. What do we want to do? perhaps it will grow so much that there will be no choice in Do we want to continue to allow private air shows to the future. But, in this particular point in time,when the proliferate on the airport,or... thing is apparently building up a little bit every year, it would seem to me,like the old farm boy said,if it ain't broke,don't Jim Boykin: I don't view it as a private air show,it's Las fix it. Cruces Aviation Day. Ted Morris: I would disagree with that evaluation. Ted Morris: It is a private air show. Frank Dailey: That is not Ted Turner,you know,who is Stephanie Medoff. It is a private air show if it is not City flying for the money every year. sponsored. Jim Boykin: I know,but he's willing to take the chance the Ted Morris: That is correct. next year,to try to get himself back well. Stephanie Medoff: And,that is what the whole exercise was Frank Dailey: Nobody would be working for anybody in the last year when we went to the City Council work session. country if they didn't get a paycheck. Jim Boykin: What is the Big Enchilada? Jim Boykin: Well,I understand that,but in this particular case you have a guy that wants to go ahead and do the thing, Stephanie Medoff. A private enchilada show. and as far as I am concerned,he has done a good job. I haven't seen very many people standing in line to tell him he Jim Boykin: That's what the Mayor said he wanted. has,so I want to tell him he has right now,as far as I'm concerned. But still,why mess with the thing when it is Stephanie Medoff. I think what Ted is saying,is why working? We can work out these details,they're not couldn't the air show be scheduled for the same day that the important. The barrels,I'll move the barrels myself,if that is Confederate Air Force is coming here? It's the same the problem,and I won't cost you very much. To me,it's a 1 4 LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 11 of 38 weekend,because we knew simultaneously,when both were Ted Morris: Not as many as last year. going to happen. Correct? Jim Boykin: What does that have to do with anything? How Ted Morris: Well,my point is,I think that there needs to be much cost would it have been for each to come in? some sort of oversight on the part of the City on things the City winds up spending money on. The bomber show was Ted Morris: A dollar a piece. easy,because it took place on a private leasehold,and all the funds were paid for by private individuals. Stephanie Medoff: And,more would have come if the Bombers had been here the same weekend. Jim Boykin: Does the City have to spend money on the Big Enchilada? Jim Boykin: Well,you can't say that,you don't know that. Ted Morris: Yes,sir,and for example,the Amigo Air Show Stephanie Medoff' Oh,I think so. It would have been a is charged for the cost of Police protection during the Amigo much bigger draw. Air Show,so on and so forth. The City is subsidizing Jack s private air show,and if there were no charge to the City,then Jack Rosenow: Aviation Day is scheduled on two things. I would say fine. But,there is a charge. Number one,the second Sunday of Se tember has always been okay for weather,always kind of warm. We have Reno Jim Boykin: It's a little bit discontinuous to me,to talk about the following week,we have Amigo Air Show three weeks Jack's private air show when he is out$6,000. later,and we have the Whole Enchilada. I have tried three years to get the Confederate Air Force in here. They Jack Rosenow: This show is for the public of the City of Las promised to do it one year,and canceled at the last minute. Cruces. They are very expensive,and it is a matter of trying to coordinate arrival times,and schedule times for these people, (Unclear words-several people speaking at the same time.) and that is why we have been unable to get the Confederate Air Force. Jim Boykin: I think the City should cough up some of that. Stephanie Medoff: Why are they very expensive? Stephanie Medoff. He doesn't want the City to,because he doesn't want the City involved. Chuck McLean: They are prohibitively expensive. Jim Boykin: So,he has a bunch of people who will go out Frank Dailey: You walk onto an airplane,and they charge and do these kinds of things for us,and who in the City is you. going to do this? Ted Morris: You have to have somebody who will front a Stephanie Medoff: My big question is,it has never been tremendous amount of money. blatantly addressed is,why you Jack,don't want the City involved? Why you don't want this board overseeing Stephanie Medoff. Well,according to the letter to the editor, anything? That is the big issue. I just think we need topeople who went through these airplanes,they had to charge address it. 5 to even get through the gate. Jack Rosenow: The board oversees it,so far as I brief the Ted Morris: That is correct. board as often as necessary. This year there was nothing to say,because we didn't know until the last moment what was Stephanie Medoff: Why couldn't the Confederate Air Force going on. I briefed this board several times before,I briefed have been some place where,okay they can get their five the Council before. bucks,from people(unclear words). Stephanie Medoff: Alright,is there a problem then for you? Ted Morris: That is how they normally do it. Jack Rosenow: No. The problem is control of the show. Chuck McLean: It'spart of the display, if you want to go on Stephanie Medoff: What kind of control? the airport,you pay. You don't pay to get through the gate. Stephanie Medoff. Okay,so why does that make them Jack Rosenow: Decisions that have to be made regarding expensive to the Las Cruces area? what acts,how we are going to set it up,the schedule,and so forth. Jack Rosenow: Because we had to guarantee them a certain amount of funds to come in, in the case of fuel in Stephanie Medoff: Why is it a problem that the City would particularly. be anyway involved with that,especially financially? It seems to me that would be a boon to your show. Chuck McLean: I will tell you,they have worn out their welcome inmany places. They want rental cars,they want Jim Boykin: Well,what he is saying is,that the people who motel rooms,meals,fuel. are involved in it now,don't want to deal with the City. They want to do it themselves. (Unclear words-several people speaking at the same time.) Stephanie Medoff. Why? My big question is,why? Stephanie Medoff. But,coming on their own,separate from Ted Morris: And my point then is made,that this is their air an air show,nobody has to guarantee them anything? show. This is not a City air show. But,taxpayers are Ted Morris: Oh yes,this year there were Southwest subsidizing the air show. Aviation,Borman,Stahmann Farms,and a bunch of people were involved with sponsoring the Confederate Air Force, Jim Boykin: Nevertheless,the taxpayers enjoy the air show. and guaranteeing that they would walk away with their fuel The taxpayers all come out here and look at the air show. paid for,and their transportation taken care of,so on and so How many of them came? forth. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2,1997 Page 12 of 38 Stephanie Medoff: Why couldn't these same people sponsor Jack Rosenow: Correct. it the same week as an air show? Stephanie Medoff. Are you meaning only board members, Ted Morris: That is exactly what I am talking about. or are you meaning from the general public? (Unclear words-several people speaking at the same time.) Jack Rosenow: We will be glad to have any help we can get. In February I made this statement,this threat to sue thing Jim Boykin: I still maintain,that until we can work out some came as a result of a side issue,it was before the February of these details,that you are obviously not going to work out meeting,and it was pretty well decided at that work session, today,we ought to let Jack go ahead and run with the thing, that the meetings would be held,and there would be and try to work these things out over the period of the next attendance from the City. There hasn't been. I want to year,and forget about worrying about who is in charge as forget it,it is all history. long as the thing is working. Maybe,before this time next year,Jack is going to get run over by a truck,then after that, Stephanie Medoff: Do you have any numbers,what is the what will we do? Why tear down something that is working, largest Committee you would be willing to have? is my point at this particular time? The thing is,the man is obviously dedicated to this thing. You can call it his if you Jack Rosenow: Right now the Committee is seven people, want to,but,I came and I didn't pay anything,and I'm a and it has worked very well. taxpayer. I saw a whole lot of people here,there were a lot of kids who had a real good time going and looking at all Stephanie Medoff: If we came up with ten more people that these things. They loved the Stealth. really wanted to work on this,would you welcome them onto the Committee? Stephanie Medoff: Is it a general consensus here among the board,that it is working all right,given the lessons we have Jim Boykin: I don't think he needs ten more people. learned about barrels and everything else? Stephanie Medoff. I'm just asking the question,it's just a Frank Dailey: I think that number one,somebody,and I'm question. not pointing my fin er at anybody,but,somebody from this board should sit with his group here. If nothing else,just to Jack Rosenow: The Committee of seven to nine has worked coordinate what's going on. very well. We have people that help out,and not on the Committee. I don't want to get to the point where we are so Stephanie Medoff. His group does not want that. encumbered that we can'tet anything done. One or two representatives would be fine,but I need workers,I don't Frank Dailey: I know that. need people on it to just sit there and listen. Jack Rosenow: Now,wait a minute. We have invited the Stephanie Medoff. I'm assuming these people would be Airport Manager to sit on the board to observe. We had four workers. meetings open this year,and he didn't attend any of them. Jack Rosenow: I mean,I need workers on the Committee,I Stephanie Medoff. Was he given ample notice? don't need peo le to just sit there and say I attended the Committee and this is what(unclear words). Jack Rosenow: Yes,he was given agendas. One I guess you were on vacation in August,one in September,and in Stephanie Medoff. I'm assuming anybody who would be on addition to that,we had a briefing over here at noon with the the Committee,be they board members,be they just from the FAA,and participants. general community,they would be workers,not dust sitting there ust to spy on you. That is not my intention at all. You Stephanie Medoff: Okay,those three meetings,now,are all woul�allow us to ask people,would you like to serve on within a month of the air show. What about the previous Aviation Day,we are really going to make it gang busters? months where it is being planned. This is a make it,or break it year. Jack Rosenow: The first meeting was in May,and we didn't Jim Boykin: What would you like to do, say a maximum of sign anything until the 23rd of March. two people, if we could find a couple of people? Ted Morris: Madam Chairman,may I make a comment,and Stephanie Medoff' Well,that is what I am asking,why a that is that Mr.Rosenow, in the paper,threatened to sue me maximum of two? for my interference with his Aviation Day. So therefore,I chose not to attend any of Mr.Rosenow's meetings,because Jim Boykin: Why not? I did not want to just be an observer sitting in the back of the room. There is nothing I could contribute to.... Stephanie Medoff' Because,then what if you have people who would really want to work on this thing,maybe you Frank Dailey: Ted,you and Jack didn't hit it off, so you have got people... shouldn't be on the Committee again. Somebody else here should probably handle that. Jim Boykin: This is not for the people working on the Committee,it's for the people that are going to do the job to Stephanie Medoff: Jack,would you object to having a help them. member,whoever is on the board next year,you would not object to having them actually on your Committee? Stephanie Medoff. What,your workers don't go to Committee meetings? Is that what I am hearing? Jack Rosenow: I have no problem having anybody on the Committee that you want to appoint. It is fine with me. Jack Rosenow: What I am saying is,you have a Committee meeting,the people who are out here on Sunday that have fill Stephanie Medoff. You say you have no problem with us in slots,do not necessarily attend every meeting. They may appointing anybody we want too,to your Committee? attend a particular meeting,or sub committee. The point is,I LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2,1997 Page 13 of 38 don't need a room of fifteen ppeo le to try and wind up Jack Rosenow: There were three airplanes that were open for arguing and discussing how diffcult it is with a large display,the weather modification aircraft,the New Mexico committee. If there are members of this board that want to State Police,and the one helicopter. Now,the Guard participate,fine. requirement is,that the aircraft is(unclear words). We made arrangements this year to have the barrels beyond,until 1:00 Stephanie Medoff: What about members that are not,people PM when the waiver starts,and the Committee has no control who are not on the board,would you be willing? over whether somebody sets the aircraft up,that is strictly up to the aircraft owner,and those are the only ones. If the 130 Jack Rosenow: No problem,just have them call me,and I had been here,of course,they provided people getting inside would be glad to talk to them. the aircraft. Jim Boykin: Well,we have been discussing this for nearly an Stephanie Medoff. Are those your two concerns,and that is hour. it for you? Stephanie Medoff: Alright,I just wanted to clear this up now Bill Madden: Yes. With a free air show you can't afford to so that we don't end up next March with a Memorandum of hire enough acts,where one guy lands,the other guy is Agreement,and then saying again we didn't have time to get already in the air for the next act,so there is a lot of dead the military involved. I don't want to do what we did last time,either that or you have a very short air show. So,there year. I would like to be totally clear in our heads today,what needs to be enough stuff to keep people interested on the we want to see for next year,and whoever it is,will run with ground. That's just my comments as to what might spice it the ball,and don't do what we did last year. I don't want to up a little bit for some of the kids,especially. go to a City Council work session over there,again. Stephanie Medoff. How do you feel about having the same Gene Kennon: We should build on what we have here,and I set up we had this year,again next year for Aviation Day think these details can be worked out between now and then. Committee? I have to agree with Jim,the thing is working pretty well, really. It has had some friction,and still has some friction, Bill Madden: Well,unless you can get a crew that wants to but on the other hand,if we take what we have here,and do it,I would say,try it again. build on it,correct a few of these details,I don't see why it can't work next year. A government and private partnership Stephanie Medoff. Okay,Chuck,we haven't heard from is reallyy�the direction I think the Mayor would want to see us you. What do you think? take. The Confederate Air Force thing,they had to charge some money,because one of the guys told me it takes$5,000 Chuck McLean: Well,I think Bill talked all around my an hour to keep that B-29 in the air,and this takes a lot of major point, is the fact that I think there is a general admissions to get that. I think that by having it separate,it frustration,and maybe the airport,okay,not the board the focuses two events on the airport,and I think that is one of airport in general,had a lack of input into the scope o?what the things we want to do here,is to cause more activity at the is going to happen. I can never see that being very smooth airport. So, if we had the events separate,I don't see and coordinated with a private organization verses the Ci . I anything too bad about that. Let's take what we have here, don't see it happening. This gets into Jack's economy rea and work out the details,and just go from here,and build on quick,when we start saying,we don't like that gap. I have what we have. the same feeling Bill does,only I think it is more generalized than just Bill. Like,we hear about hangars,and gates,and Stephanie Medoff: Thank you,Gene. How about you,Bill, what not,we board members hear from the people at the air any comments? showsaying,well,couldn't you have done this,couldn't you have done that? I don't know if in the arrangement we have, Bill Madden: Not really. There are a couple of things I think where the conduit for those kind of suggestions will take we can improve on the air show. The PA system is still place. Jack gets the reputation of,I don t want comments. unreadable down the ramp. I guess the guy that furnishes all that stuff,and I don't know,he's probably a volunteer... Jack Rosenow: I have never said,I don't want comments. If you have comments,I will be glad to take it into Jack Rosenow: He has his own company,but he has also consideration. been spread out,and he did the best he could this year. We are looking at other people to help him out. Stephanie Medoff: So you wouldn't mind if someone is walking around the air field and hears a comment,based on Bill Madden: Once you get a hundred yards away from that Aviation Day,they would write it down,and pass it on to stand,you have no idea what is going on. If you had a good you,and you would take it in good faith? air show announcer you wouldn t be able to hear him. Jack Rosenow: Certainly,I always have. Stephanie Medoff: Excuse me. Could that be a sponsor,if you could get an audio outfit to be sponsor for in kind Stephanie Medoff: So,what do you think about the issue of services? the Committee? Jack Rosenow: His problem was,he was tied up with some Chuck McLean: That would be my reservation. other items,and some of his equipment was not available, and he had a make shift(unclear words). Stephanie Medoff. The lack of willingness to deal with input from the field? Bill Madden: The other thing to me is,everything is for the kids,everything is behind a rope. There are displays,I know Chuck McLean: Let's say the lack of an ability toward that when I have seen another show where if you have a crew like happening,not willingness. I think that someone who comes I've seen the Custom's helicopters sitting out with a crew up with an idea should have something behind that idea,and there to show people what it is,where they can actually get a willingness to help it follow through,instead of saying, up close to it and look at it and this show really the ramp was Jack we want an upside down B-29. Somebody has got to basically sanitized except?or the British Car Club. say,I have a B-29 and I will fly it by upside down,Jack. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2,1997 Page 14 of 38 Stephanie Medoff. You guys,Bill Madden,Jim Boykin, Stephanie Medoff. I would bet the ranch,that next year that Chuck McLean,you guys walk around this airport all the ramp is going to be cleaned up,and those barricades will be time. If you put the word out that the Aviation Day dealtwith. Committee is going to remain basically the same for next year,but there is a real openness to suggestions,as long as Ted Morris: Well,I'll tell you,I don't share your optimism. they are concrete and come along with a method of enacting the suggestion,if you put the word out that these guys are Jack Rosenow: Well,I would suggest that next year a really open to that sort of thing,wouldn't that at least get a member of the advisory board follow me around the ramp channelopenof some sort? after the show,so we all understand exactly what it looks like. Jim Boykin: Couldn't hurt. Jack Rosenow: A recommendation came to us that they Stephanie Medoff: I agree. wanted skydivers. I personally had reservations,but I am Ted Morris: I'm not talking about the trash,I'm talking delighted that they did it. about returning the airport to its original condition,and it was written down. (Unclear words-several people speaking at the same time.) Gene Kennon: That was written down,that was the rule. Stephanie Medoff: You really offended the person who suggested that,and that is one of the problems,and we might Jack Rosenow: It was left in the original condition we found as well just say it out in the open. He is very offended,and it on Friday when we assumed responsibility,and the barrels says he will never volunteer to do anything for Aviation Day were all spread over the ramp. So,we will have to work that again as long as it is under the current management. out. Jack Rosenow: Well,that individual never attended Chuck McLean: We've got a month. I think I heard we have meetings. a month,so let's not make a decision today. Stephanie Medoff. He attended one,and he felt like such an Stephanie Medoff. I heard the second meeting in October of interloper,and so unwelcome. the City Council,that is not a month. Jack Rosenow: He came to one meeting. We gave him Ted Morris: That is what he would like to do. That is what agendas,I've talked with him several times,phone calls, Mr.Rosenow would like. messages,he decided apparently that he did not have an interest in doing it. Chuck McLean: No,I meant we had a month to get comments back to Ted. Stephanie Medoff: He did have an interest,and he felt that he was shuttled off in very short order,and never wanted to Frank Dailey: I didn't see that. avail himself to that kind of treatment again. That is just how it is,and we might as well just say it out loud. Until we Ted Morris: No,this is just my critique,my after action recognize that,and face it head on,we will not grow. critique,that's it,and it's for your perusal. You can make a decision today,next month,the month after,March,June,it Jim Boykin: Well,you can't please everybody. doesn't matter. Stephanie Medoff: But,you can sure try to please more than Jack Rosenow: My concern is that we need to get DOD a(unclear word),across the board,all over this airport. forms in,we have to really get cracking. Frank Dailey: With some people you have go the extra mile. Stephanie Medoff. We don't want to have the delays we had last year,for whatever reason. I don't care what the reasons Stephanie Medoff: Okay,with this said,and verbatim on the were,whose fault they were,anything,it doesn't matter. record,Lord help me. Chuck McLean: I don't know what the start date is,but, Chuck McLean: Well,we've got a month according to Ted, anything much after the first of December,you're running to look at it. backwards. Frank Dailey: I have one suggestion,Jack,and maybe it is Stephanie Medoff: This board should then make a decision something you can look into the future,but,I had three at the November meeting,of how Aviation Day...who should hundred people tell me about this. They suggested Aviation run it next year? Day,we should make an announcement in the City to bring in a can of food for the needy,and each family bring in a can Jim Boykin: I thought we already decided to leave it like it of food,and put it some place. They did that in Tucson,and was? they came up with three full truckloads of food for the needy, Just by walking around on the ramp. This is a possibility,and Stephanie Medoff: Well,I thought that too,but now I guess might be worthwhile,plus it might get a lot more people I'm not thinking that any more. Why am I not thinking that? stirred up. Chuck McLean: I heard him say that those comments were (Unclear words.) in here,and he wanted to hear back from us at the end of the, Stephanie Medoff: That was a nice response from Jack,and before the next meeting. that's the kind of response we need. Stephanie Medoff: Okay,but has he not heard back from us Ted Morris: However,the question is,with this food thing is, right now? fly a B-29 by inverted,who is going to collect the food,who Ted Morris: What I recommend is that... is going to distribute it? We can't even get the ramp cleaned up after the event. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 15 of 38 Chuck McLean: I just think that there is just too many Stephanie Medoff' That is what I am trying to do right now. outstanding issues. By November,the first Thursday in November,which is our next meeting,is it possible that we have a Memorandum of Stephanie Medoff. Okay. Agreement ready and approved by Jack or his committee, and is also satisfactory to us,and is also satisfactory to Frank Dailey: Wait a minute,we just got through saying that whoever the staff is besides Ted? Can we do that in a there was only a couple of minor problems. Now you're month? saying that there is a lot of outstanding issues. What are the outstanding issues? Chuck McLean: It is almost demanded that we have to do it in a month,because he,Jack or anybody else needs to hit the Chuck McLean: The last five minutes,we've been...more ground running. citizen input. Ted Morris: We will need to set some meetings for this. To Ted Morris: I think if I could just state from my position as a be bluntly honest,we have a huge paving project coming up, City staff member,I'm not satisfied with the Memorandum we have a reconstruction of taxiway B and C,there are a lot of Agreement as it is written. It certainly would need to be of things happening that my,time as a real Airport Manager changed to make me happy as the Airport Manager,to satisfy are going to be eaten up with,and not discussing somebody's my concerns about safety and operational activities on the private air show. airport. I would like your support in coming up with those changes,and I think that the City Council will need to act Stephanie Medoff: But you're not going to be out there again,one way or another on dealing with Aviation Day. As paving the runway,you are not driving some steamroller. long as taxpayer money is being spent on Aviation Day,the City Council must,in my opinion,and my direction is that Ted Morris: No,but I am going to be supervising the entire the City Council must make a decision about the status of operation. Aviation Day,and who runs it,and all the rest of that sort of thing,and they are going to rely on your recommendations Jim Boykin: Well,do you have to be at this meeting,or can for their decision. So therefore,unless you want to spend the we... next hour or two talking about this,perhaps everybody thinks about it,and comes back next month,and we can conclude Ted Morris: You can do whatever you want. You guys are and come to a final decision. the political representatives. Stephanie Medoff At which point then,we have to come up Jack Rosenow: I would suggest, if I might,that if there is a with a Memorandum of Agreement,or do we come up with a problem with the Memorandum of Understanding,changes Memorandum of Agreement between now and the next that you wish,let members of this board get together and try month's meeting? an iron it out. Mr.Nava is going to have to be the signatory Jim Boykin: Does anybody know what goes on with the Big on the thing. Enchilada,do they have to go through all this hoopla every Ted Morris: No,the Mayor was last year. year about that,or is it pretty well locked down? Jack Rosenow: Well,whoever. Chuck McLean: It may have grown to the point where it is locked down. Chuck McLean: I volunteer to be the citizens person,okay? Citizen input,between now and then,I'll find the citizen Jim Boykin: Did they have problems like this in the input. beginning? Stephanie Medoff: Thank you Chuck,you are a great guy. Stephanie Medoff. Who makes up the Memorandum of Agreement? The Board,you? Chuck McLean: Well,we need it. That was one of the steps Ted Morris: We can take the one that exists,and modify it,if I think we had agreed on last time. that is necessary. Jim Boykin: Have we beat this totally to death? What is the citizen input,what do you mean by that? Clarify that. Jack Rosenow: If you can go ahead and do that,get me a copy,we can start some groundwork between you and I,and Chuck McLean: Were they satisfied with it,have they got resolve it through the City Manager. suggestions. Ted Morris: This business of resolving it through the City Frank Dailey: Who? Manager is not an option,until such time as it is not agreeable. We need to work at the lowest possible level to Chuck McLean: The public in general. make this work. Ted Morris: Frank,all the public comments that I heard Chuck McLean: Last year you got leverage a little bit with were not as complimentary as what has been said around this Joann,you had already made a terrific financial commitment table. Not all ofthem were negative,but they were not all to her,so,we are not going to have any commitments until complimentary,and I think that those things need to be this is resolved. addressed,because they address very specific issues. Stephanie Medoff. But,we need to resolve it in as timely a Stephanie Medoff. Let us reconvene as a,not even a manner as possible. quorum,in two weeks from now,and see what Chuck has gathered. Write down what you have heard. We have to Jim Boykin: If we are going to resolve it in a timely manner, resolve this so it can get working,and so it has ten months in so that he can make a commitment,we need to put ourselves which to.... on record,and stating a date that we are going to do it. Ted Morris: And you all need a copy of the Memorandum of Agreement,is that correct? LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 16 of 38 Stephanie Medoff: Right,I would think so. Stephanie Medoff: Thank you very much,Jack. Harry Wiley: The issue seems to be,at least from what I am Jim Boykin: Thanks again,and whether anybody else liked it hearing,is how does the City support private events. For or not,I liked the air show. instance,the Norwest Balloon Fiesta,there are lots of examples,and what precedence do we have in our Chuck McLean: We are still hearing rumors around the community where the City invests their funds in something ramp,well this isn't what we thought it was,but thank God that is run by somebody outside the City? And,under what we are not running it. circumstances,is one of the rules by which those events happen. First thing is,do we have any precedence? Gene Kennon: It was a good show,Jack. Ted Morris: Yes,and that is where we got our Memorandum Jack Rosenow: Thank you,I appreciate it. of Agreement from. Stephanie Medoff. I didn't go to it,so I can't make a Harry Wiley: Okay,and then how close does this come to comment. Thank you,Jack. fitting those,and where does it deviate,and where is it unacceptable? Those are the sorts of things you guys should Ted Morris: Okay,Bomber Week. We have already talked address. about Bomber Week,and I wanted to remind the board that the three issues that I have always had with any public use of Jack Rosenow: I don't believe those other events require the apron is,that they are insured,that they let us review their annual approval. safety plans,and that they take care of their own requirements in general,and are safe. Bomber Week went Ted Morris: Yes,as a matter of fact,if they use City that way,and I understand there was a problem with paper, property they do. but,one of the things that I think has not been reported by the paper was that,the Confederate Air Force donated$3,900.00 Jack Rosenow: If the committee goes to them,but I don't to youth groups in the City. That was 40%of the gate,that think the committee itself is either approved or disapproved they took in at the gate. David Wilson is responding to that, by the City. or he is the one who put the whole thing together. Ted Morris: No,as a matter of fact,they sign at a written Stephanie Medoff: The only thing that I see is,a$5.00 boiler-plated agreement that specifies everything that they charge per head to walk on the tarmac for our own public will do,and they sign that with Robert Caldwell,from Parks airport. Now,that does seem strange. and Recreation Department. With the exception of the Au'port,Parks and Recreation has the only other suitable Jim Boykin: Was that for them,for the Confederate Air public facilities in the City. So,it is done in a much lower Force? level than the City Manager,or the Mayor,but it is also not negotiable. Chuck McLean: For everybody,yes. Stephanie Medoff: That is what we are working towards. To Ted Morris: To get in the gate. However,here is the thing,it resolve things before it gets up to an attorney. Alright,are was not the public ramp. It was Hal Kading's ramp. we understood? And,when we all read the Minutes,it will be really clear? Chuck McLean: And,it was a donation. Jack Rosenow: Two weeks from today? Stephanie Medoff' Well,then it was$3.00 to see a C-46,and then an additional$5.00 to see inside the B-29,and he is Stephanie Medoff: Two weeks from today is just to see what saying that this is outrageous,this Ken Odenheim. we came up with. Jim Boykin: As far as I'm concerned,it was worth a lot more Ted Morris: Have your input in by that time. than that. I had never been in a B-29 before. Stephanie Medoff. Are we done with this issue then? Ted Morris: And,the other thing,for every paying Jack Rosenow: And you will let me know when something is customer,they had two that got in for free. ready for us to look at? Frank Dailey: Yeah,when you bring three or four kids out, Stephanie Medoff: We sure will. then it gets expensive. Chuck McLean: But,there should be a date certain for that Ted Morris: The kids were free,Frank. They had busloads too,Jack. If you don't start working on the next show during of kids coming from schools,they had scout groups,they had the last day of the present show,you are probably going to all that stuff. get behind. Ed Lindsay: I'm sorry,I personally talked to somebody this Ted Morris: Why doesn't this board just commit to making a morning,he had his hand in my mouth,whose youngster was decision one way or the other,no ifs ands or buts,at the charged$5.00 to get into the B-29. November meeting? Jim Boykin: How old was the youngster? Chuck McLean: Yea,but we are going to have an interim meeting. Ed Lindsay: So,it was not free. Ted Morris: Alright,but I mean at that point the City's Chuck McLean: Was he with a group? position will be established. Ted Morris: If he was older than twelve,he had to pay Chuck McLean: But,also if we want to make some changes, $5.00,you're correct. I think it's(unclear words)to beat it to death in the meeting to have a draft for him to take away. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2,1997 Page 17 of 38 Frank Dailey: Two kids around me,they both claimed they Gene Kennon: I think based on my sources,they are going to got charged,and I think they were maybe ten or eleven years go through the ETZ route,which means they will get their old. permit to build,and we will have not had the opportunity to annex another 2,000 acres if they go that route. But,he feels, Chuck McLean: But,he could have whipped out his Boy and I am talking about John Moscato,I didn't talk to him Scout card on them,and went right on in. We did it with directly,he feels like he was pretty well beat up at the City hundreds of them. Council meeting. I think he was reflecting the fact that he didn't have a complete hearing at the City Council meeting, Ted Morris: Thepoint is,again it is a private air show,okay? and two of the Councillors walked away,and I think that is What the C.A.F. did is no concern at all to the City of Las the reason the Mayor canceled the meeting at that time as far Cruces,because they did everything we required of them. as Bright View is concerned. So,I think that is where he is They were insured,they did it safely,and it is over. coming from,and I think you can rest assured that it will Stephanie Medoff: And now,somebody is responding to this probably come up through the ETZ the next time. Ken Odenheim? (Unclear words.) Ted Morris: No,I'm not. I think,just let it die. Bill Madden: I don't know where Dusty Prints Road and Winerick... Frank Dailey: They interviewed him on Channel 7 at 10:30 in the evening for 15 minutes. Hal Kading: Dusty Prints is that building that's on the south side of the Picacho extension,with the round thing that he Ted Morris: Does anybody know who he is? has built up on top of it,and there is a bulldozer and a boat Jim Boykin: A guy like that would gripe if he was hung with sitting outside. a new rope. Chuck McLean: All that stuff is just outside our zone incidentally,and it is over near KOA. Winerick is the road Stephanie Medoff: The only thing is,I don't like the that goes up to KOA. misconceptions that we are being charged$5.00 to walk on the tarmac of our public airport. Stephanie Medoff. But,that's all on the south side of the Ted Morris: It will just die. I think if we just leave it, it will highway. just die. Chuck McLean: Right across from the water slide. (Unclear words-several people speaking.) Stephanie Medoff: I read that article too,Bill,and I wondered if that was our land. Marty Ditmore: I helped work the gate Thursday and Friday, and we bent over backwards on kids. A lot of kids we didn't Bill Madden: The east side of Dusty Prints Road,and about charge them,we didn't ask questions. half a mile northwest of the intersection of South Winerick Road and the Vista Real. Chuck McLean: I briefed every crew that was out there,and Ed didn't hear part of it,but I thought I briefed him too. I ran Stephanie Medoff: So, should Bright View go to ETZ,then thegate every blessed minute while I was up there,and it was do we need to make it our business to go to the ETZ here is your chance to exercise humanity. If you have a meeting? woman standing there with a couple of kids,and the kids can go out on the ramp,and she doesn't have the money,send the Chuck McLean: You bet,I think they will call on us. kids six feet thru the gate,and say,Madam those children need supervision. Okay,maybe that didn't happen every Stephanie Medoff: How will we know when they are time. meeting? Jim Boykin: There are a lot of sneaky things to do,and Jim Boykin: Will they call on us? Chuck knows most of them. Ted Morris: You need to make contact with the City Chuck McLean: I saw 125 Cub Scouts go into the C-46 and Councillors who are on the ETZ. the B-29 at about closing time one night,and then David Wilson's wife who was apparently a big deal in the Cub Gene Kennon: It will probably come to the County Planning Scouts around here,write a personal check for$150.00, Zoning Commission for the next step Because they would which she was not required to do. approve something(unclear words)ETZ Authority,who deal with the zoning changes and that sort of thing,but they Gene Kennon: What day did that come out? already have the zonmg. Ted Morris: I think it was Monday,I mean,it was like he Stephanie Medoff: So,it is Planning and Zoning that we must have hand delivered it to the paper Sunday evening. need to make ourselves known to? Stephanie Medoff: Alright,we've dealt with it... Gene Kennon: That is the County organization,yeah. Judy Price would have the answer. Ted Morris: Bright View Land Company-nothing new. Chuck McLean: Does anybody know how they are handling Jim Boykin: On this Bright View thing,we've all been kind the water issue? of scared of when that was suddenly going to leap up and bite US. Gene Kennon: I have no idea. Stephanie Medoff I'm wondering if we didn't leap up and Stephanie Medoff. We really need to be paying attention bite them,and they're not going to mess with us any more. here. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2,1997 Page 18 of 38 Chuck McLean: Judy Price obviously doesn't want to set poles you know,the transmission lines. The local her people to work doing the same damn thing we did. I distrMtion lines,you could run underground,but it cost made sure they got copies of everything that f could. I keep about$10 to$12 a linear foot to do that. mentioning her,and 1~rank always looks at me and says,gee, how old is she? Stephanie Medoff: So,what is going to happen on Gasoline Frank Dailey: I didn't say a word! Alley? It's going to get extended? Ted Morris: Gasoline Alley is going to have a power line Stephanie Medoff: I like Judy Price,I respect her a lot. that comes and stops right here,and they are going to offer WAM the opportunity to buy power from the City at 20% (Unclear words-several people speaking.) less than what they are buying it from El Paso,dropping off Stephanie Medoff. Did you hear that? Gene Kennon says, with their pole right here. she is one of the best things to ever happen to the County. I Stephanie Medoff: Here is the WAM concern that was agree. Okay,here is another issue coming up. brought to me just last night by Joe Aday. Ted Morris: Electricity-Alright,the work that you have Ted Morris: We are going to get to WAM in a little while. seen done out here where the pavement cuts are and stuff, they laid in the conduit through which they will run the Stephanie Medoff. Well,I am talking about electricity here. electrical lines for the City. How come the City is allowed to run high voltage power lines behind their hangar,when they had to pay lots of good Stephanie Medoff: Show me on the map. money to bury them? Ted Morris: Well,anywhere that there is an underground Ted Morris: There is no difference between what the City is power line right now,that El Paso Electric has,there is now a proposing,and what everybody is required to do. Right now, City underground line paralleling it. Everywhere that you they are required to drop off,they dropped off the pole,and see an above ground power line,there will be an above came in. ground power line,probably on the other side of the street paralleling it. For example,on Gasoline Alley,right here, Stephanie Medoff. But,they were required to go there is a line of poles on the south side of Gasoline Alley, underground. there are now if you go driving down it,poles sitting in the ground with a stake marking where the City will put up its Ted Morris: And so will everyone else down there. poles on the north side of Gasoline Alley. Stephanie Medoff: Can I ask a really stupid question? Stephanie Medoff. Except the City. Where is the City electricity going to come from? Ted Morris: But,the pole,the distribution line will be above ground,that is correct. The Industrial Park, in fact,has a Ted Morris: It is going to come from that power line that's... zoning requirement that power be underground from the source to the building,and that is similar to what the general Stephanie Medoff: Okay,where does that come from? requirement is here. Where is the power that feeds that line come from? Jim Boykin: Do you know what those voltage rates are,is Ted Morris: I don't know. They buy it from somebody else that 660,220,what is that? beside El Paso Electric, SPS or somebody,I don't know. Stephanie Medoff. So the City is not going to be using El Ted Morris: Three phase,whatever. Paso Electric for City electricity any more. Jim Boykin: It's probably a three phase,but I just wondered Ted Morris: Here is what is going to happen. We are going to run a power line down,and it is going to come down this Ted Morris: No,I don't. I'm not an electrician,all I know is section line over here. This is Section 21,the part that Mr. that the.... Kennon would like us to get some day. Anyway,there is another section up on the top that we own,and that power Stephanie Medoff. Why does the line have to run behind line runs through it. It is going to come down this side of the WAM's hangar? section line to where it belongs to the City,and run from here diagonally down to this point,there is the National Guard Ted Morris: Okay,when we get there we really need to look Armory. It will stay on Ci property all the way through at the next section,and that is down here under Master Plan, down to here,cross the higtyhway,and be set up in about a two if you want to go there? or three acre,20 megawatt substation that is just on the other side of the freeway in the Industrial Park. From there,it will Stephanie Medoff. Do we want to go there,or do we want to then power up the Industrial Park,the Airport,and go down just keep in order? the hill to the City's Waste Water Treatment Plant. They are planning on offering power to the prison,and a bunch of Frank Dailey: Let's just keep going with what we have here. other places. Stephanie Medoff: How come it is not going underground? Stephanie Medoff. Okay,everybody hold that thought. Chuck McLean: We almost have to keep in order,because a Ted Morris: Because,that was the way that the Utilities lot of people in the room know a lot more about WAM and people put the package together. what they want to do,then the board in general does. Ed Lindsay: More expensive? Stephanie Medoff. I know. Ted Morris: It's much more expensive. It cost$10 a linear Ted Morris: Okay,the next one. Fuel Storage and refueling, foot to run conduit underground,and you can't do the big this specifically concerns the issue you voted on last time. G J LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 19 of 38 The Fire Department is now the primary agency in this. It is location for the installation of this tank. So,that is pretty strictly an issue of compliance with the code,or changing the much where it stands. The issues pertaining to the old tank code,and the Fire Department will take it from here. So, are mute,overcome by events,and should no longer be of they are aware of what you guys have said. However,an any concern to the board. We are trying to remove the fuel ordinance can only be changed by an ordinance. from that existing tank down there as quickly as we can consume it. Does anybody want to buy some auto gas at a Jim Boykin: Do we have a problem with John Darden about very attractive rate? Well,see me after the meeting. We what we said,and what he thinks we said? appreciate the board's consideration of this issue,and if we can work something out there,why the space requirements, Ted Morris: I don't think so,that is why we have a verbatim I'm not sure exactly what those would be,we will get those transcript. to you in the not too distant future. Stephanie Medoff: Here is a letter that was sitting here, it Ted Monis: Let me ask what did the Fire Chief say about the probably came from Ed Lindsay. current location of the tank as a future location? When I went to talk with him,I said,I don't understand why they Ted Morris: No,that came from John Darden. need to move from underneath the sunshade,because every time I pull up into a gas station I'm underneath a sunshade. Stephanie Medoff. I don't know how it got delivered here Did they address that issue? though,by Ed? Ed Lindsay: It was not addressed. Having a free standing, Ted Morris: It got mailed here. and approved tank is one thing,there are two other major problems associated with that,other than just locating the Bill Madden: He told me he was going to be here regarding tank some place,although that is incidental. But one of the fuel truck thing. I don't know if he got tired and took off, those considerations is,how do you remove the duel from the or... tank? If we don't build a stand,and use a gravity flow system,we obviously have to have some source of power. Stephanie Medoff: This says,"Dear Ted,I received your Our existing source of power down there is a solar powered letter dated September 16th. Please have your secretary pump,which may in fact be able to retrofit to a new tank at a listen to the tape of the meeting for the revised motion. At different location provided we can find some way of my request,the motion specifically stated that the board providing for a automatic or remote shutoff for the power support the arrangement,if we get new tires on the trailer, source to the tanks itself or to the pumps themselves. And (not"brought it up-to-date"). I stayed through the vote.. that relates to the other problem of if we attempt to fill them. Unless the Board revisited the issue,the resolution would not If we want to use some form of electrically powered pump be as indicated in your letter." with the tank,and not use a gravity feed system,we have a problem of a location that has power available,with which to Ted Morris: Well,I quoted in my letter to him,exactly what power the pump,and then in turn we still have the is in the verbatim transcript. requirement to provide some means of remote shutoff to the power driving the pump in the event of a run away nozzle,or Jim Boykin: Well,what is in it? something of that nature. So,that is where we stand at this moment. We have a board meeting tomorrow morning here, Stephanie Medoff. We all got it. We all have it. in fact,in the lounge here,this will be discussed then. But,I think it is safe to assume that if we can arrange to lease a tank Bill Madden: As I recall, it was that we were going to ask for the next four,or four and a half years,and not raise our that the... fuel costs to the point where they simply make it unaffordable to maintain the organization,we will probably Stephanie Medoff. One moment,please,before we go any opt to do that. If not,that would force us to consider some further. Ed Lindsay says this may all be moot. Tell us why. other alternatives. It is a concern that we do not have a source of auto fuel here on the airport. Auto fuel(unclear Ed Lindsay: Yesterday afternoon,John Darden,myself,and word)are a very popular item. I discussed this with Hal Terry Sullivan,I guess we are three of the principals in the when we found out that we were going to have to lose the use West Mesa Association,we're hosted by the Fire Marshal, of the existing tank,and our fuel requirements annually Zubia,and Chief Roman,meeting in Chief Roman's office. certainly would not justify anyone installing an auto fuel For the record,I don't think that I have ever been treated dispensing system here on the airport. We do not want to go nicer,more considerately,and more professionally,by any to$2.00 a gallon aviation fuel. That increases the operating member of City staff,than we were by those two individuals. cost on the airplane a flat$10 or$11 an hour any way that They did a very adequate job of enlightening us about the you look at it. Being able to provide our own fuel,auto fuel, new code,and the changes that are even going to be about half the cost of aviation gasoline is one of the things forthcoming to the existing code in another four years or so. that makes flying with our organization as economically At this point in time,what West Mesa has essentially decided reasonable as it is at this point in time,and we would like to to do is,we are going to eliminate the tank that we have. Mr. preserve that. Sullivan is going to be contacting several different tanks leasing agents,and be around the Las Cruces Stephanie Medoff. That is wonderful news. I wish that area,whom we understand might be willing to lease us a tank everything would resolve happily. that satisfies the OSHA and the fire code standards for such a dispensing agent. We will probably end up relying on either Ed Lindsay: I have one other question, if I may? And that is, a gravity feed system,or if we can obtain some assistance I don't know whether the board,or the Airport Manager,I from the University,in making some modifications to our don't believe you have a formal request for the use of such a solar powered pump. We may attempt to install it on the new space,and this may be better dealt with off the record. But, tank,if this is in fact the direction we choose to go. We we would like to know how we should go about,what the would still have a need,of course,for a place to install such a procedures of the process is for us to go about requesting that tank here on the Airport. So,I understand that from previous this space be made available? Go through the Airport meetings here,the board has considered trying to find,or Advisory Board,or the Airport Manager? with the assistance of the Airport Manager,attempting to fmd a space that we could lease at some affordable rate as a LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2,1997 Page 20 of 38 Ted Morris: What I envision right now is,if they won't let Wallace's lease. This is Mimoso's,and this one is you keep it where it is,or you... Renneckar's. Ed Lindsay: We didn't even discuss that. Stephanie Medoff: Okay,and those were approved? Ted Morris: I think they may. But,the only other place that Ted Morris: Those were approved on the September 15th I can think of is down here in this corner. Here are the City's meeting,and what I have provided you with is the own sunshades,and there are tiedowns right along this fence unapproved draft minutes. The concern I have about all this line right here,and I think that something in the comer...you stuff is that up until the September 2nd meeting,everything would have to taxi your airplane down and refuel it,and go we had ever discussed at the City Council,we have never back to your hangar. discussed anything,everything was on the consent agenda. On the 2nd and 15th,they pulled everything about the airport Ed Lindsay: We do that anyway. off the consent agenda,and we had to brief everything, including the grants and things of that nature. A number of Ted Morris: The point is,that I think there is room there to the comments which you can read in there,Councillor maneuver,and safely now. We would have to have the Fire Tomlin,and Councillor Haltom,have serious reservations Department come out and say,yes,this is okay. But,that is about the cost of leasing land here. They think it is too little, about the only way I could rent you such a small piece,or we and so they want us to,they are going to want some could do something where we rent something over here in explanation,which is something else that I have provided for this stretch of grass for a very short lease term,in case you,which is what do we actually lease right now? It is a someone comes in and says,I'll give you a million dollars for busy sheet,but, it is all on one sheet,and you are welcome to this three acres. We will kick you off in a heartbeat. look at it. It shows what people are renting for what,and so on and so forth. Let me explain to you though what the Ed Lindsay: Well,whatever course of action we take,the nearest suitable comparable would be like an airport like Fire Marshal,Zubia,has indicated,and Chief Roman has Santa Fe,that is probably a comparable airport to ours. And, indicated,that they would happy to sit down and go over our I am going to send this survey up to Santa Fe,Roswell,and proposal in detail,and we would probably do that with the several other places to ask,what is it thatyou guys charge? representative of the Airport Advisory Board,or even Ted in In the Industrial Park land sells for$15 000 an acre. If you attendance. Because,we don't want to do this twice,and we loan somebody$15,000 for seven years at 10%interest for an want to do it so that we are clean,and not subject to later acre of land,that costs$.07 a square foot per year to pay off castigations and finger pointing. So,whatever we propose or that debt. So,we are very close to what it would cost,if we ultimately do out here,we won t do it,and surprise you with could,and we can not sell land on the airport. But,if we a letter informing you that we have done it. I promise you could sell land on the airport for$15,000 an acre,6.25 per that. square foot is very close to what a 10%loan would be. So, the land here,I think,we are very close. I think the City Stephanie Medoff. Thank you,so much. Council is goingg to want us to raise it to$.07,they are going Ted Morris: What I've handed out,we will talk about in a to raise it to$.07 per square foot or something like that. few minutes. Hangar leases, arcels and leases,requests Stephanie Medoff: They would raise it based on our approved by the City Council on the 15th- Ed Mimoso for recommendations,or would not raise it based on our parcel 21,and Mel Rennacker for parcel 19. Mr.Wallace recommendations? came in and paid his annual rent,but has not yet responded to a request to what he intends with parcel 17. Bill Moody Ted Morris: Yes,right. came by yesterday afternoon and said that,he thinks Wayne has a set of plans,but it involves a lean-to addition on the Chuck McLean: I will ask Harry,without turning around,I south side of his existing gray hangar. think he feels,and I have for a long time,that the only reason people are building here is because it is attractive,and we are Stephanie Medoff. Will you point it out to us on the map? going to price ourselves out. Ted Morris: This large han ar right here,this is Marty Ted Morris: We don't want to price ourselves out of Ditmore's,this is Wayne Wallace s large one,and this is the business,but,$.0625,or even$.07 a square foot,is below the parcel that Mr.Wallace has leased from us. It is 80 feet national average certainly,which is running about$.22. across the front,his proposal is to,the last time he talked to me,and I have not seen his current one,was to put a 24 foot Stephanie Medoff. I think we should be aware though of lean-to on the end of this,which would intrude into this what is Santa Teresa's going rate. parcel 14B,which would leave 66 feet of taxiway, in my =opinion,wasted. I have told Mr.Wallace that,first off,his Ted Morris: I don't think that there is any place to build in requires him to build a 3,000 square foot hangar on it. Santa Teresa. If he does not do that,we need to change his lease. So,I have asked him to please get the stuff so that you guys can Stephanie Medoff. No place to build on Santa Teresa? look at it next time. Bill Madden: One danger of going with Santa Fe, is that it is Stephanie Medoff. Are you willing to change the lease to a destination airport. waste that... Ted Morris: I'm not just talking about Santa Fe we are Ted Morris: No,I'm not. I would recommend very much going to get five or six comparables. I mentioned Santa Fe against it. However,that would be up to the City Council to has about the same revenue passenger enplanements,about amend the lease. the same stationed aircraft,about the same ramp space,and Stephanie Medoff. Okay,show me the other two. so on and so forth. Bill Madden: I'm afraid we will get some inflated numbers Ted Morris: The other two,one is here just to the south of that will be hard to... Mr.Ditmore's lease,and the other is here,to the north of Mr. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 21 of 38 Ted Morris: What we want to do is,we want to be able to what the City Council said. Now we get to why Mr.Wiley is Cresent the City Council with Santa Fe,Farmington,Clovis, here,I think. Let me explain what drove the interest that I'm arlsbad,Grant County,and have a splattering. I should not sure that he wished had not been focused on the area have used Santa Fe. I'm sorry I said Santa Fe. immediately north of his hangar. We have here a proposed subdivision plan for the area that we call the hangar Harry Wiley: The other thing I think you should do is this, subdivsion,for want of a better name. Again,gomg up to once upon a time when the Guard moved out here,the City this chart, if you will remember in the Master Plan,we traded land from downtown for this stuff out here. It all had selected on the Master Plan this design. I hope everyone an appraisal at that time,and no matter what they think it's remembers that. What we were going to do was extend this worth now, no matter if it is$15,000 an acre or$100,000 an taxiway down. This is representative,please don't think it as acre,those appraisals still are a platform to use...it was$400 being to scale. We were going to run this down this way,and an acre is what this land was worth when the Guard got it. actually the design that was eventually used had another plot here,and this is a bigger plot,and so on and so forth. When I Ted Morris: When it is totally unimproved land out in the got the City Engineer to come out and take a look at it,and middle of the desert it's probably worth$400 an acre,or we went out and walked it,65 feet north of this hangar wall $500,or$900,or whatever. I know that 160-acre parcel that where the doors are,is about a 3 foot berm,and it just goes what's his name bought that's north of the airport,the one up,and then goes straight all the way to the north to that that we are concerned about... apron. So,this is actually in a hollow, if you will,the terrain changes by about 3 feet. I have$40,000 this year m the Chuck McLean: Belongs to my son. budget to build a new taxiway down here. The in government will not participate,nor will the State,because Ted Morris: Yeah,he paid$900 an acre for that,and there is these are private taxiways,strictly for the ppurpose of renting not even any access to it. out to private individuals to build private han ars. To run what the proposal in the Master Plan is would cost about Stephanie Medoff: Let me put on the tape that the previous $40,000 m engineering,drainage,and the dirt work itself, person talking was Harry Wiley,who has been Chairman of and we would not have a taxiway at the end of that period of the Airport Board previously,for those of you reading this, time. We would just have a big patch of dirt,and all the wanting to know why he knows anything. $40,000 would be gone. In addition,the parcels that would then be built in this area,that are proposed to be built in this Ted Morris: There was a call to Sound Off that discussed area,the individuals who lease those would have to dig into this,and whoever the caller was,confused the cost of land in the ground to put their hangar up in order to match the grade the Industrial Park that we paid to the City of Albuquerque, of the taxiway,or reasonable grade to the taxiway. Because, with...actually the airport was given to us for free. What I if theyjust built on the surface they would be about 3 feet keep telling people is,the amount of money that we charge above the taxiway elevation,which those of us who know for land lease,and what you will read in my comments to the airplanes,that is a pretty significantJjump. So, in an attempt City Council was,when they said we need to charge more,I to figure out how can I spend$40,000 this year,and produce said we need to lease three hundred 10,000 square foot the most revenue for the City,by leasing out more parcels, parcels just to pay for the airport operating expenses. There and the reason this is important is that we have leased out the are all sorts of comparisons you can make,like$100 per last parcel on the taxiway. They are all gone,except for this landing of a 737,how many 737s do we need to land here, one right here. We have to decide where we are going to how many 10,000 square foot parcels,how much of this,how position that. What I have proposed here is a taxiway coming much of that? The end result is,that we know the airport directly off of this piece of apron down here,a 35 foot wide revenues are not going to pay for the airport operating alley way to come up behind the building,come over in this expenses,let alone the capital requirements here. But,we do direction,and we would wind up with five parcels here,five need to keep the good favor of the City Council, in my parcels on that side of the taxiway,and another taxiway opinion,and I think we have lost it based on the comments eventually coming down like this,into this area which kind that you will read in these things from the September 2nd and of envisions the big plan of running taxiways into the 15th meetings. They are not pleased with the cost of the Industrial Park,and that sort of thing. And,that is what you airport compared to the... have there,that is almost to scale the best I could do with a little drafting ruler. What I asked Dick Woolmer and Gary Chuck McLean: Both Tommy Tomlin and John Haltom, Miranda,my maintenance guys to do,was to go over and above everybody else down there except for Gene who has first mark out some of the new parcels,and especially the 35 heard it a hundred times from me and Bill,say the day they foot wide alley way with cones,and mow it so that we would letgo of those hangars at the auction(unclear words),they have a good graphic representation,and also so that the relieved anybody who was ever in charge out here of making WAM people would see what was going to happen to them, this a paying proposition. I mean,we are starting off,I don t because they will be the most affected. know now much he makes,but we are starting off with a minus$70,000 I suppose a year. Hal is not gomg to tell us Stephanie Medoff. Let me ask a historical question. I don't how much he makes off of them. That is a terrible big gap, know if you will be able to answer,but,someone here will I there aren't to many$70,000(unclear words)on this damn suppose. Some WAM person. My understanding,that airport. WAM wanted to build where Marty is now,where Wallace is now,and were not allowed to,does anybody know why? Ted Morris: Well,the point being that if we are charging a reasonable rate for land,or for...you know we have discussed Harry Wiley: The issue there was... this over and over again for the last year an a half,that what the City Council wants to see is that we are charging a Stephanie Medoff. Are you a WAM person? reasonable amount of money. And,their question was,is 6.25 cents per foot reasonable? I think we can make the case Harry Wiley: Yes. I wrote the letter. that it is pretty reasonable. However,when we get around to the ordinance,and the accompanying resolution to establish Chuck McLean: He's the"W'in WAM. Bill is the"M"in the fees,and so on and so forth,we have already talked about WAM. them many,many times,and in fact we were going to raise the fee to$075 a square foot anyway, in the policies we Bill Madden: For what it is worth,by the board rules,or City discussed that several tunes. Anyway,that is the status with board rules,I can't even discuss this. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 22 of 38 H Wiley: As it turns out,when we started to build,this Ted Morris: Well,that distance is subtractable there from wh area here was open. It was not very negotiable as to 122 feet minus 35,whatever that would be. what could be done,but,the requirement to serve utilities underground turned out to be so expensive,we chose this site Harry Wiley: If the building to building dimension that I see down here even though we had to put in all our paving in on here, 122.69,if that is maintained,and if an airplane could front of the hangar. We had to build our own taxiway at our go down the center line of this whatever it turns out to be expense. We chose that because the cost tradeoffs of the space between the buildings,and it wouldn't run into utilities service,even though we had to go underground we anything,I think our needs are met. Whether we call it a didn't have to go as far as we would have to have gone, if we road,or we call it a taxiway,or we call it an object free zone, had taken the free asphalt that exists out here. It was a trade I don't know what we call it. off. Stephanie Medoff: Well,if we call it a road the City.pays to Stephanie Medoff. You paved that 40 feet at your own put it in. If we call it a ramp,you have to pay to put it in,is expense? How many feet is it between Wallace and Marty? that not true? Harry Wiley: There is 80 feet of paving there,which I Harry Wiley: It sounds to me like we do. thought,historically remember,the FAA paid for that. Ted Morris: No,they did not. As a matter of fact,the FAA Jim Boykin: Are the roads going to be 3 feet higher? refused to pay for any more paving on the airport until the Ted Morris: Yes,sir. City opened up additional access so that the appearance of exclusivity which Southwest Aviation held at the time was Stephanie Medoff: But,there won't be a next developer if broken,and the City built that taxiway. that is not their front door,if it is the end of a building,there is no next developer that would feel any obligation Chuck McLean: I think that you and I had the same whatsoever to put a ramp in there. So,that would be the big misunderstanding,that they were trying to attract at the same issue. time,boy the history of it all,Black Hills Aviation to come over here and put in a heavy ramp on the east end of the Harry Wiley: The other issue is,that I don't really know that airfields and the FAA would participate,but they backed out. the numbers that Ted has come up with,but,the amount of They didn't come,and the FAA backed out. analysis has actually been done to determine just what the cost impact is of making a taxiway there. We always knew Harry Wiley: There is a checkered history with who is that the ground was higher to the north of us. As to the actual paying for what,and I don't think it is a closet we want to best way to accomplish construction there on a mirror image open. I think if the FAA is satisfied with,it isn't their turf, building from ours,you know we thought is subject of some we ought to leave that one alone. But,the long and short of itprofessional analysis,and it may be that the slopes are not as is,that we have always anticipated,and what this letter is all bad as what we think we are dealing with here. They may be about mainly, is here is the place where we built,we built this a lot more manageable. There may be a little cut here,and a taxiway as an interim solution to getting our aircraft out. little fill there,and the drainage...the berm is strictly artificial. But,with the idea that someday we might want to sell the The berm was put in by our contractor as a way to make hangar,as sort of an IRA. We might have some corporate room for drainage off of our apron,or whatever it is,and it is people move in,and the hangars are big enough to a very negotiable thing. It can be moved easily. But,the real accommodate something as wide as 58 feet,that is the largest question is is just what are the real measurements,and what wing span airplane that we contemplated. And,for that are the real cuts that have to be made,and I don't think that airp ane to comfortably fit,we expected,and the precedent anybody knows at this point. We have opinions as to what is has already been set,we expectedthesame kind of going to happen,but,the hard data is not out there yet. And, clearances in front of our hangar as already exist over at the the other thing is,that this may be the Master Plan now,but other corporate hangars. That is the expectation that we have there has been other Master Plans in the past that had all along,and we don't know if that expectation is going contemplated a building just like ours to the north of us that to go away or not. But,we wanted to alert the board,or City, opens to the south. I don't think it is totally unfeasible,but I that we are concerned. don't know where it fits. The problem is,if we dont give the kind of access in front of our hangar that the kinds of Stephanie Medoff: So,the new plan,instead of having airplanes in there need,our investment is greatly diminished. hangar doors facing your hangar doors with 80 feet at least (Unclear words.) We are very concerned about that. between the two of you,there could be several hangar ends facing your door? Stephanie Medoff: As they should be,and I think we need to Harry Wiley: We are going to be looking at the backs of listen carefully to the WAM corporation. some of the hangars. Ted Morris: If I may say a few things. First off,in their letter,I would like to make very clear that the FAA Stephanie Medoff. The backs,or the sides? requirements for taxiway clearance,and so on and so forth, do not apply in this case. The other thing about the Ted Morris: Look at the side of a hangar. In fact,Joe Aday underground utility service,everyone will be required to drop would look out of his hangar door,and look straight down a off the pole,and come underground just as they were. The taxiway. City has guaranteed to Mr.Mumoso,and Mr.Renneckar that it will provide power within 200 feet of their parcel,which is Stephanie Medoff: Harry,we haven't had a chance to read actually a little bit further than what was provided to WAM's your letter yet. Instead of what you expected to someday be parcel in the beginning. They are located about 200 feet at least an 80 foot wide taxiway,or ramp in front of your perhaps from the pole that they drop off of,and come hangar doors,is now going to be your existing 40 feet that underground. you all paid to put in,and then a 35 foot wide road. Stephanie Medoff: So,is there a pole existing for Mimoso Harry Wiley: In some,yet to be measured on the sketch, and Renneckar? amount between the road and the existing ramp,taxiway, apron,whatever it is... LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2,1997 Page 23 of 38 Ted Morris: No,there will be one. This is what is driving Unidentified Person: Or move their hangar back 20 feet. this whole thing, is that the electrical distribution system is in the process of being constructed. I asked for$125,000.00 Ted Morris: I really want to keep these guys on my side. this year to do improvements at that end of the airport. The City Council,and the City Manager approved$40,000. If I (Unclear words.) spend one dime of it on a taxiway that is going to have to be...a sunken taxiway,and so on and so forth,we won't get Ted Morris: There is a lot of weird stuff involved with this. the best bang for the buck. Now,let me explain what this plan would do. Stephanie Medoff: Well,I don't know,I think you need to Stephanie Medoff- The big thing is,we don't want to create define the best bang for the buck. our own weirdness for 20 years down the road. Ted Morris: Let me explain what I think will happen if this Ted Morris: That is right. However,I think that this plan gets to the City Council's attention, is that they will say,they would do the least damage in that respect. paid for half of a taxiway,which in fact they did not.They paid for 20 feet worth of an 80-foot taxiway. Stephanie Medoff: Except,we are dealing with people who have been good tenants for 10 years. We don't know the Stephanie Medoff. Wait,what about 40 feet? people who are going to be 20 years down the road,and I think we need to deal in as much possible good faith as we Ted Morris: No,they got 20 feet. They are on a zero lot line can with the people who have been good tenants for the past lease if I can point this out. They have a lease that is 300 by ten years,is all that I am saying. 100?eet. Their building is 300 by 100 feet. They have outriggers that go out 32 and a half feet from each end of the Ted Morris: I'm not trying to dispute their good tenancy. building onto City property. That is not the issue here. The issue is,how are we going to spend$40,000 and open up additional building spaces? If we Stephanie Medoff. Tell us just for the record what an take the$40,000 that is available this year,and do anything at outrigger is. all with this taxiway,we will maybe produce two or three Ted Morris: It is the thing you slide the hangar door out on. parcels. They are on a zero lot line lease. Stephanie Medoff. But,is it at the expense of five other hangar owners who have been sitting here for ten years? (Unclear words.) Ted Morris: Well,the five other hangar owners have also Stephanie Medoff- They are not paying lease money for the been sitting on a 370 foot wide lot,and paying for a 300 foot asphalt that sits in front of the doors? wide lot for ten years. Ted Morris: That is correct. Stephanie Medoff: More power to them,I guess. Stephanie Medoff: They are not paying for that footprint. Harry Wiley: I really don't mean to diminish this,but that is really a trivial amount of money compared to losing the Unidentified Person: They built it. ability to market the hangar to a corporation. Stephanie Medoff. They poured the asphalt?And how wide Ted Morris: However, let me ask this question. Who should is the asphalt? pay for the taxiway that you think ought to be done?Bill,let me ask that. Who should pay for the additional 20 feet? Harry Wiley: Forty feet. Because,I am absolutely convinced that you built 40 feet, Stephanie Medoff. Why are you saying 20 feet? and you should have built 60 feet. Harry Wiley: I believe you when you say you are Ted Morris: Because,for example,Mr.Ditmore was convinced. I'm convinced,you're convinced. The whole required to provide a 20 foot connection to the taxiway that issue is,historically what happened here was,we were faced he is on,and he built zero lot line for his hangar door,and the with an unfavorable site to build,and the tradeoff,the reason setback... we constructed the apron/taxiway totally at our own expense was,because all these other folks over here already had one, Stephanie Medoff: Wait,Mr.Ditmore did 20,we are not and all they had to build...they did the setback at the time, talking about Mr.Ditmore,we are talking about.... they did their concrete or some kind of transition between the existing paving and their door. And,it was a very lucrative Ted Morris: You are asking about why I say they only built pplace to build,and Mr. Garland was very instrumental in 20 feet worth of taxiway. bein successful in gathering all those(unclear words). We did this,there was a compassionate Airport Manager at the Stephanie Medoff: Okay. time,and there was a favorable City administration to help work out our development. So they said,well if these guys Ted Morris: You don't build taxiway right up next to a are going to have to build all their own taxiway,let them building in normal situations. You have a setback from the build up against it. That's what we did. Now,I think if taxiway. On this airport that setback in this area has been 20 things need to be re-negotiated somewhat,I think we are feet. So therefore,the 20 feet worth of asphalt immediately willing to listen to what would tend to make things more north of their hangar doors,is their private apron,and then equitable. But,the central issue here is,we don't want to do they have 20 feet worth of asphalt to the front,but the something that is not a good idea,and compromises the value taxiway was originally designed to be 80 feet wide. That is and the use of these hangars,they are already there. We want where the 40 feet came from when you talk about half. So in to make sure they are usable in the way they are intended to fact,in my opinion,they should be responsible to build an be used,and we don't do something to stop that. additional 20 feet worth of taxiway to the north of their hangar. Ted Morris: If I can point out what my responsibility is. First off,I appreciate,and I've heard this story often enough LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2,1997 Page 24 of 38 from people on the auport that I believe it,and that is that Stephanie Medoff: You don't have a savings account? various people m the City have made various representations U to a lot people for a long time about all sorts of things,and Ted Morris: No. I have no doubt that somebody promised you something here, there,or the other place,I have no doubt of that. However, Stephanie Medoff: That is so foolish of the City. I'm going be that as it may,my responsibility is to develop the whole on record as saying so,to foolishly spend$40,000 instead of airport,and that may not necessarily include enhancing saving it and adding to another amount next year. property values of existing properties. Ted Morris:Let me put it to you this way,if we don't build Harry Wiley: We are not talking about enhancing,we are anything right now,if all we do is the road grading over talking about decreasing. there,and the dirt work,the next person that walks in and says,Ted I want to lease a parcel and build a private hangar Ted Morris: Well,now wait,why would it decrease any? on it. I would have to tell him,sorry,they are all gone,you will have to wait for a year. Stephanie Medoff: Because they don't have the space to taxi a larger airplane. Hal Kading: Who is going to build the taxiways down to these? Ted Morris: Yes,they do. There is plenty of space there. For example,here is a, if you would like to take one and pass Ted Morris: The City. them around. This is a Citation,actually Citations,the taxiway that exists,for example,Dr.Aday talked to me Hal Kading: Why? They can build their own,like you said. extensively about King Aires and stuff,I use to be a flight examiner in the Air Force in King Aires,there is more than Ted Morris: Well,actually,they built an apron,and you are enough room there to taxi a King Aire,and wide enough correct. We can do that. Let me point out,this 60 foot wide apron as it exists. This is a Citation which would be a taxiway which I propose right here,taxi lane or long narrow wonderful addition to our airport,ifzyou will look at the wing apron,or whatever it might be,it costs about$32,000. There span and the distance between the two main landing gear,and is an eight-inch water main right here. I propose to run that the distance from the landing gear to the wing tip,and you eight-inch water main following this alleyway,and put in start doing some mathematics,you will see that if they are some fire hydrants. But also providing water to the future taxiing in this direction,and they put the left main gear on the development area. That will use up the$40,000. Now,what edge of this pavement,that they will wind up with 12 feet we could do,and that would open u ten additional parcels, clearance on that wing tip from their hangar. Now,that is the what we could do is just tell anybody who comes in,yes you way to get in and out today. can build,but you have to pay us,you have to build your own taxiway,you have to get your own water,you have to Stephanie Medoff: Wait,they are taxiing to the east,but get your own electricity,you have to do all that. there is nothing to taxi to. Stephanie Medoff: They do anyway. Didn't they,didn't Ted Morris: To their hangars. That is the only reason you WAM? would go down this taxiway, is into one of their hangars. Ted Morris: That was ten years ago. Is that the way you Stephanie Medoff. Well,wouldn't you go down the taxiway want to continue to develop the airport? I don't. to get onto the runway? Harry Wiley: Let me ask a dumb question. What happens if Ted Morris: Yes. You would go this way,and then turn this we say,we don't need an access road for cars here,why way. don't we use vehicle access here,and if they want to come around here... Stephanie Medoff: Same difference? Ted Morris: Because in the long run,my goal is to eliminate Ted Morris: Same difference. So,mypoint is,whether it is a the motor vehicle aircraft interface on this airport. It should King Aire,or Citation,or any other, it is tight,and you are never happen unless it is essential for airport or aircraft not going to have two airplanes passing like this. But,it is operation. satisfactory for that level of aircraft. Now,a King Aire is a big airplane,and I agree that the taxiway that they have is not Harry Wiley: Well,then how do you get to your hangar? ideal,I think it should be wider. However,I am not convinced that it is the City's responsibility to widen that Ted Morris: By this alleyway. taxiway. Harry Wiley: I don't understand that. Yougo to DFW and Harry Wiley: We have never asked you to do that. all these little blue trucks are running around. Ted Morris: I understand. And,with the money that I have Ted Morris: Yes,sir,and every one of those people have available,or anticipate being available for a long time on this been through a training course. airport,the only way that we are going to be able to open up additional parcels for lease,is something like what I have Harry Wiley: But,I have a pilot's license. described here,and drawn up here,as opposed to the Master Plan as devised by Coffman and Associates. Had we gotten Ted Morris: No,sir,a pilot's license does not qualify you to the$125,000 this year,and we could go in and do a lot of dirt drive on an apron. work,and resolve the drainage issues,and the terrain slope, then this would not be an issue. Harry Wiley: With an airplane it does. Stephanie Medoff. Wait a minute,though. Okay,let me ask Ted Morris: With an airplane it does,but not with a motor you. If we don't spend that$40,000 this year,is it lost vehicle. When an airplane,your requirement under Part 91 is forever? to avoid taxi operations in such a way that you are going to damage some body. What is the requirement for motor Ted Morris: Yes. vehicle operations? LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 25 of 38 Harry Wile: Aren't we throwing the baby out with the bath Ted Morris: No. The issue is, it goes right here,and right water? Isn t this awful trivial? here,and right up here. Ted Morris: I don't think so. Harry Wiley: They are going to go north of us. Harry Wiley: We want people to build hangars to keep Ted Morris: The power line will go just like this. It comes private airplanes in,and then we don't want them to drive on right down this street,and it will go right here,right here,and the ramp. We have been doing this stuff for years,and there right up like that,above ground. is not a conflict. Not in this area. Stephanie Medoff. If it went underground at least a portion Ted Morris: Sir,that is not what I have heard,and that is not of that... what I have observed. Ted Morris: That is the issue,the issue is always money, Harry Wiley: In this area you have had a problem? isn't it? And,the issue is,how much does it cost to put things on poles versus through a conduit in the ground? Ted Morris: Yes,sir. Stephanie Medoff: Well,as long as I am on this board,I Harry Wiley: Who complained? What is it? think the issue has to be,go beyond money,and into tenant relationships. I really do. Ted Morris: Bert Zwaagstra complained. Ted Morris: If we do what WAM proposes,and continue Harry Wiley: Well,yeah,he did. with the proposal in the Master Plan,development on this airport will stop. Ted Morris: Frank Borman complained. Stephanie Medoff: Well,what if you did something like,put Stephanie Medoff: Complained about what,people driving? one facing across from them,like they always thou�t would be,and move stuff down this way? Can you move. Ted Morris: People driving,and mixing it up,vehicles and airplanes. Ted Morris: No,you see,that is the problem. The slope of the earth is such that only north south taxiways in this area Stephanie Medoff- They didn't complain that they weren't will work. Otherwise,the east west will work,but it takes a allowed to drive any more,they complained that people... lot of work,dirt work. Ted Morris: They complained that,while I'm taxiing my Stephanie Medoff: This is still north and south,you are just airplane,there is a vehicle in my way. moving them eastwardly. Jim Boykin: But they didn't complain when they were Ted Morris: Then we have to extend it an additional three driving,and somebody else was taxiing. hundred feet from this point down,instead of using this area of the apron. I don't have the money for that,and I can't put Ted Morris: That is correct. They have not complained. hangars right here. And that is why my point is,that I would like to separate those two types of vehicles. Stephanie Medoff. You don't have money for that this year? Harry Wiley: Aren't we fixing to pay a terrible price for Ted Morris: We will never have the money for that. that? Chuck McLean: What is the matter with that taxiway? Don't Ted Morris: No, sir. I don't think so. tell me that is in the wrong place. Harry Wiley: Well,I do. Stephanie Medoff: I'm just trymg to see a way to free up the area directly north in front of WAM. Jim Boykin: How many people do you have in line to buy these hangars out here? Ted Morris: It is free. Ted Morris: No one. Stephanie Medoff: No,it is not. It is a road,and it is the tail end of a line of hangars,and it is a future taxiway. The Stephanie Medoff. But,you have five owners who are corner of WAM,the east corner of WAM's existing hangar is saying,this place is no longer a place I care to have a hangar. directly across from the side of a taxiway. Harry Wiley: Well,it is compromising,that is what we are Ted Morris: The road itself,this proposed alleyway is 87 feet scared of. And,if it doesn't need to be done,I mean maybe from the front of their hangar. That gives 13 feet of wing tip we should just sit still. clearance,if an airplane were to taxi right down the middle, which it can't because this taxiway is not wide enough. If Ted Morris: Here is the issue,as I discussed at length one this taxiway were just as it is,and a King Aire or Citation can night with Dr.Aday,the road,first off this alley way is not a go down that taxiway now,then it will never be a conflict done deal. We are not going to pave that thing for a long with this road. If they widen this taxiway an additional 10 or time,because I don't think the City Council is going to give 20 feet,it will still never be an issue,a conflict with this road. me money for that. I think you are going to see airplanes and cars mixing it up on the apron over there for a long,long Stephanie Medoff: Why would you have a road running time. However,the power line needs to go in,and it needs to right along a taxiway,an apron,whatever you call it,if we go some place. don't want to mix motor vehicles with aircraft,why would you purposely build a road smack on it? Stephanie Medoff: But that is behind WAM's hangar. Ted Morris: It is not on it. We need to go down and look at it. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 26 of 38 Stephanie Medoff: What is between this road... Harry Wiley: Not if he is real careful Ted Morris: A three-foot berm. Ted Morris: No,if he is real careful. Okay,do you think that is the safest way to provide for your neighbors safety,is by Stephanie Medoff. A three-foot be isn't gomi to keep having your car on that taxiway? some wing from clipping the top of my car, is it Harry Wiley: I don't think it affects their safety at all. Ted Morris: Here is what we could do. We could shorten,in other words,this right here,we could move this road up 35 Jim Boykin: What I do is,I drive up there(unclear words- feet in this direction. several people speaking at once). Stephanie Medoff: Right,that is what I am saying. No,no, Ted Morris: And that is because you have a private taxiway that's not what I am saying. in front of a private hangar. Now,Mr.Zwaagstra did not feel that way about Mr.Richardson. When Mr.Richardson had Ted Morris: Yeah,see, Stephanie,the question then is, his vehicle attached to his Aztec pulled out in front there,in nobody is ever going to build facing south in this design,and fact Mr.Zwaagstra was very vocal about,is that a taxiway,or therefore this taxiway will never be completed,and the issue an apron,and so on,and what am I going to do about it? here is nothing less than the completion of this taxiway,am I correct? Harry Wiley: Mr.Zwaagstra has other problems with you,as you know,and I think a lot of his verbal statements are Jim Boykin: Why do you need that road on the south side of driven by agendas that really aren't that direct. that at all? Ted Morris: Could be,but,all I am saying is that before Mr. Harry Wile: That's a good question. Why do we need Zwaagstra and I had any issues,to the best of my knowledge, roads at all. I hear you talking,but if we look at the conflict he called the FBO,I don't know if Hal was there or not,but that we have... Stacey called down and said,Zwaagstra wants to talk to you. I went down there and Richardson had pulled his Aztec out, Ted Morris: Let me askou this. In Santa Fe do they have and had it all hooked up to his jeep,and had literally gone Vst general vehicle traffic driving around those gulf streams? inside to go to the bathroom,and Zwaagstra is going,what's you go down to El Paso,do you have a lot of people out the heck is he doing,so on and so forth. The thing is,that's there driving all around on the ramp? the kind of thing I want to resolve. Harry Wiley: You have the person that drove the gulf stream Harry Wiley: That is always going to happen. I mean,it is a in their rental car goes to the gulf stream. legitimate vehicle in front of a legitimate airplane,and if someone wants to complain about it,then it isust tuff. But, Ted Morris: Okay,and that's not going to be restricted here. that vehicle had every right to be there. Right. But,what happens when somebody comes up here to,let's say that Mr.Wallace decides to take his big hangar and rent it Ted Morris: Yes,well actually the reason it was hooked up out to Mike Lee to fix airplanes in. Do we want all of Mr. was so that he could push it back and get it out of the way. Lee's customers to drive up the apron to get to his hangar? Absolutely not. Chuck McLean: I think we ought to stop calling taxiways, and start calling them roads. Harry Wiley: If they have a need to be there,and they are qualified,and they are meeting the requirements of the Jim Boykin: Let me see if I can understand this. Stop me if I airport... am wrong. On the one side,Ted has a plan here that he would like to go with for the development of the future Ted Morris: How do they get to him? airport of Las Cruces,which looks like a good plan to me. On the other side,the people in parcel 15 have a big (Unclear words.) investment,and they feel that this compromises their investment,and they might even be willing to make that Ted Morris: Let's say some guy says,I want to go up there taxiway wider by about 20 feet themselves,I don't know. and Mr.Lee has a number of customers in the course of a day down at his current location,five or six cars. Those cars Harry Wiley: Well,we want to preserve the integrity of it,to shouldpark on the backside away from the taxiway,not on where it can be used as a taxiway,for some future user of the the taxiway,and not in his access to the taxiway. Therefore, hangar. this road is for the non-aviator,the non-essential vehicle. Jim Boykin: Okay,so it is a planning thing,versus Stephanie Medoff: That's a good point. I see that. somebody trying to preserve what they thought they had bought,never mind whether it was right or not,never mind Jim Boykin: I still don't understand why this road has to be whether the rules or not,never mind all of that stuff,and not there on the south side of those hangars at all. allowing them to do this,is going to compromise the investment they have in here,which really the City probably Stephanie Medoff: To get to the road that runs north and doesn't care about now that they are getting their rent. But south between the hangar rows,that's why. still, it's really not a very kosher thing to do to somebody after they have made this investment for that period. How Ted Morris: That is correct. long has that hangar been there? Harry Wiley: I think one thing that Ted is anticipating is, Harry Wiley: Ten years. there is going to be a lot of non-qualified,non-aviation types using these roads,and I don't think that necessarily is true. (Unclear words.) Ted Morris: Let me ask you a question. If you bring your Harry Wiley: That brings us to another thing about airport car out today,and you park it in front of your hangar,doesn't development. that block Dr.Aday from taxiing out? LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2,1997 Page 27 of 38 Jim Boykin: Is it,or is it not true that all these things are Harry Wiley: The City,or the FAA,or somebody. leased,and everything,and built,and after a period of time they revert back to the City? Stephanie Medoff. That's the closet you don't want to open. Let me ask a question here. I think having roads behind Ted Morris: Fifty years. every row of hangars is an excellent idea,then there is no question about mixing up cars and aircraft. That's a great Harry Wiley: We don't think so in our lease. We have a re- idea. It is getting in the way of parcel 15. negotiation clause. Or at least I think we have. Jim Boykin: Well,we don't have roads anywhere else. Jim Boykin: Well,I'm sure there would be some definite doubt about that when the lease came pretty near due if you Ted Morris: Yes,we do. We have a frontage road. We have were really using the place,and you had something in there... this road right out here. Now,down in the T-hangars... Ted Morris: Jim,I can answer this. Every lease on the Harry Wiley: But not from the Wallace hangar,not from auport says,when the lease terminates,if there is something Marty's hangar,not for your new leaseholders. left on the property it belongs to the City. But,it also gives the person,all he has to do is give 30 days notice to the City Ted Morris: At this time we don't. But,I would like to give to take it down and carry it away. So,there are no them the opportunity to drive behind their hangar. reversionary clauses on the au port,except that when the lease terminates we get the land back. Stephanie Medoff: I'm thinking,what if,see on our plan here,future taxiway 60 feet wide by 100 feet deep,that is Jim Boykin: Okay,that is what it says in the verbiage. But, right on the edge of the parcel 15. See that future taxiway? in real life,nobody is going to come up.... What if it were moved to the east where.... Ted Morris: In real life,I guarantee the lawyers will go with Ted Morris: Right now,here let me show you. This distance the verbiage. from here to there is 300 feet,actually 340 feet. That taxiway goes right here,just like this. If we move it this way, Jim Boykin: Well,in real life,the lawyers may have a I've got to build another 340 feet at 60 feet wide at,at least problem,because the lawyers may get fired,because $12.00 a square yard. I don't have the money to build it. I somebody who has this much property and so forth,is going need another$40,000 to build that extension. If you guys to have some(unclear word)some place,and it is not going can convince the City Council... to happen. They are not goingg to go out there and tear their hangar down after a period oftime. Either that,or the City is Unidentified Person: How about moving the road another going to have to buy it. 20 feet further north? Ted Morris: I'll tell you what,that event is going to occur Ted Morris: That is what I drew on my chart here,and that is about forty years from now. a possibility,and make a wider parcel. If we moved it 35 feet north,it would make that 80-foot parcel there,it would be a Jim Boykin: I know,and all that verbiage is going to be 125-foot frontage. I don't think the issue here,at all,is the changed,subject to change without notice. I mean after all, location of that road. I think the issue here is,whether or not our Congress changes our taxes every six months. So,I don't somebody is going to build a taxiway across from the WAM really know whether you can go back and forward about all hangar. Am I wrong? these things. I think we ought to look at this from a standpoint of what is logical and rational. Ed Lindsay: Madame Chairman,may I ask a question? Harry Wiley: The most logical thing here in the whole thing Stephanie Medoff: Ed Lindsay is asking a question. is this. All the existing hangars of this class,and of this size, all had an 80 foot taxiway with an additional 20 feet between Ed Lindsay: When you guys,when WAM-O,and I'm not the buildings,and that's really what we think we should have being irreverent you understand,no more than normal. here. That makes sense, it is consistent, it matches When WAM built their hangar down there,what did the everything else that we have done so far. Airport Master Plan reflect? Did it have a specific hangar layout reflected on it for that area? (Unclear words.) Ted Morris: No. Harry Wiley: Yeah,we can,we can do that. Then if they want to pay for the pavement that we put in,I don't know,all Ed Lindsay: So,there was something of a dice roll at that these other guys got their pavement paid for. point in time, involved on your part,and on the City's part. So you got a legal issue it seems to me to resolve before you Ted Morris: No they didn't. That's not correct,sir. You do a hangar layout down there. mean all the connections from their hangar to the taxiway was paid for? Ted Morris: There is no legal issue here. Harry Wiley: No,I'm talking about the paving. They paid Harry Wiley I just did the crunch at$12 a foot,which I for the twenty feet,but all the taxiways... would pay$7. I'can get the same asphalt that is in front of this hangar for$7 a square yard. Ted Morris: That's what I think his question was. Is that 20 feet that's to the north of your hangar is yours,and the other Ted Morris: Yeah,that is because the asphalt that is in front 20 feet... of your hangar is not satisfactory. Stephanie Medoff: Who paid for beyond 20 feet for the Harry Wiley Okay,at even$12 a yard,the other 40 feet is Richardson hangar,and all of them? only$16,000. Now,where did the rest of the$40,000 go? Ted Morris: The City. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2,1997 Page 28 of 38 Ted Morris: The rest of the$40,000 would be to run it down Ted Morris: I would like to very specifically addresses this to the end. There is no sense in ust giving you a wide business of roads. I think to abandon the concept of access taxiway in exchange for two 10�-foot wide parcels. roads is unsafe. Jim Boykin: Even if he pays for it himself? Chuck McLean: Can we just not do it? Leave the terrain,the bank vacant until we take care of other priorities. Ted Morris: Oh no, if he pays for it himself,have at it. Ted Morris: Yeah,but the problem is,here is the issue,let Harry Wiley: All I'm getting at is,so far what I heard is,this me give you the bottom line issue-forty thousand dollars ground to the north of us is a whole lot higher than the plus the power lines. We have a requirement to provide ound where we are,well that may be true,but,how much? power to Mr.Mimoso,and Mr.Renneckar. just keep coming back to(unclear words). Chuck McLean: Why can't that just be a service trail instead Ted Morris: Forty thousand dollars worth. of a road? Harry Wiley: When I start putting what few things I Ted Morris: It would be a pole line,and it is going to run up remember from engineering school to this thing,I've got to the future roadway. That is the issue here. Is the road going have better numbers before I'm going to commit to really to be right along side WAM's current lease hold,or is it standing on is it really going to cost$40,000 or things like going to be displaced some place to the east? that. I don't think there has been any real surveying done over there,is there? We don't really know how much higher Stephanie Medoff. You're telling me that this red line is the it is. power line. Why do you have to go all that way,why doesn't it go... Ted Morris: This chart here has a half a foot margin of error, and these are one-foot contours. There's three-foot Ted Morris: Because the power line is going to go to this difference,right there. That berm is three feet high,and it point,because WAM has its meters right here,and the City is remains fairly flat all the way to the(unclear word). going to provide them with the closest possible power to their meters. Right now there is an El Paso electric pole right over Stephanie Medoff. Wait,I thought they but in the berm for here,so the pole line is going to go down to here and stop. irrigation. Stephanie Medoff. Isn't it a lot easier to move a meter than it Harry Wiley: We did. We put the berm in,and the berm is is to build this long power line? way above the existing terrain. Ted Morris: No,as a matter of fact it isn't. A pole line is Ted Morris: You need to look at it,you will see. very inexpensive. Stephanie Medoff. So, it is not so much a berm as a hill? Stephanie Medoff. See what he is saying? It has to go all this way because the meter is here. Harry Wiley: We sloped the ramp down in order to get the water to dram away from the hangar. That seemed like a Ted Morris: No, it would have to go underground. You good idea. would have to do a pavement cut, ou would have to go underground,you would have to do a whole bunch of things Jim Boykin: Let me ask another question. What is it that toget through here. You have to pay$10 a linear foot for an you would like? underground line. Harry Wiley: First off,what I would like is,the idea that we Stephanie Medoff: What do you pay for an above ground are going to put an access road in there, it is going to be a line? road to be abandoned. And let's leave the concept that it might be,and maybe something will change here,maybe we Ted Morris: It is practically free. will have a different tenant,that we leave the option open for it remaining a taxiway some day,just like the other users of Jim Boykin: Why is the road tied to the power line? this class of hangar have. Ted Morris: Because the power line needs to go down Jim Boykin: Even though it is not on the plan,or anything? through the road right of way. You need a place to put the power line. I'm not going to put a power line down a Harry Wiley: Well,it is on the plan. Which one is it? taxiway,of course. Ted Morris: It is none of those. That one on the right is the Stephanie Medoff. But,in a sense you are,because this is most closely representative of what is show in the Master WAM's taxiway right here,and here goes the power line Plan. However,the Master Plan is not directive or legally right along it to get over to parcel 19. binding in any way. Ted Morris: It will go up here some place. Harry Wiley: I understand that. The quality of this drawing, and the length of time that went into doing this,I don't see Jim Boykin: Could you spend that$40,000 some other way? the same kind of technical expertise in this document here, that I see here,and you guys shouldn't jump a work horse to Harry Wiley: Yeah,could we go to the other side of the another without some real careful thought. airport and spend it? Let's spend it somewhere,I'm all for that. Ted Morris: I think if we go drive down there you will see the terrain,and you will understand what I'm trying to point Stephanie Medoff: Well,why don't you spend part of it out. putting this... Chuck McLean: Could we keep the concept only of a service Ted Morris: Let me ask this board a question? I would road because(unclear words). really like everybody to focus on the issue here,if you would LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 29 of 38 please. We are talking around a lot of things,and in a group I've been trying to delay that because I happen to think there of I hope friends like we are. I think that it would be nice, is other more important things to do. yeah I know,Ed doesn't think that anybody is my friend,and you all aren't I'm sure. Harry Wiley: What is the rational for spending City money? Stephanie Medoff. I'm your friend. Ted Morris: The rational is because ten more hangars will be built,and people will be employed in the construction of Ted Morris: I think the real issue here,we are all tap dancing those hangars,some one will bring their airplanes in here, around about it as far as on the other end of the airport,that s and build those hangars,and operate out of here,and designated,and has always been designated as future T- contribute to the economy of the city of Las Cruces. hangars,and that kind of development. The east end of the airport has always been designated as being where the private Stephanie Medoff. And,other people may move out of this hangars are going to go,and the corporate hangars,and that airport. sort of thing. Ted Morris: Who would move out? Stephanie Medoff: That's the issue we are talking about? Stephanie Medoff: We have so much discontent up here. Ted Morris: No,you just said spend your$40,000 down at We ve got to deal with it,we just have to deal with it. the other end of the airport. I had a gentleman call me from Los Angeles two days ago,and ask if he could get a hangar Harry Wiley: Could we throw some of the$40,000 at leased. Everything is full,that is the one interesting thing underground service? If we go with underground service,we about this airport,everything is full. What he wanted to do don't need to build a road. is,he's got two locations in southern California where he rebuilds the interiors of aircraft,and he wanted to come here Ted Morris: No,I'll tell you why. To build a taxiway the because he isgetting a lot of business out of east Texas,and length that I have shown on here and the width.... coming up from Mexico,and this would be a good spot for it. I said,I'm sorry there are no hangars for rent. But,I would Harry Wiley: What if we just threw the money at be more than happy to lease you a spot as soon as I build you underground service up to the lot you want to develop? Will a taxiway,and run power to your spot,and so on and so that pick it up? forth. I'll get back to you,he says. Ted Morris: I need to have a taxiway. Stephanie Medoff. Yeah,and he may be planning on getting back to you. Jim Boykin: But,you're not going to get a taxiway now anyway,why can't you... Ted Morris: He may be,but I can guarantee you that if we don't build this taxiway,the way I've depicted it,we have Ted Morris: Yes,I will. In fact,the reason I'm trying to get nothing to offer any one until the next round of budget this done quickly is when McCrossan is out here rebuilding negotiations with the City Council,which will be the first of Taxiway B and C,we can let a Request for Bids,and because July. they are on the station,we might actually get a taxiway built for a lot less than$10 a square yard. The point is,this Stephanie Medoff. Why can't we move that taxiway a 100 taxiway right here,all the available taxiway spaces are feet north? already leased out,it is all gone. There is no other place to lease to any body,except this spot right here,and I m Ted Morris: Nobody has any hangars for lease on this reluctant to do that until such tune as we decide where this airfield. taxiway is going to go. Stephanie Medoff: Why can't we move this taxiway where Harry Wiley: You're going to use the money to build this this row... taxiway? Ted Morris: Because I need another$40,000. Ted Morris: Yes,sir. Stephanie Medoff: Well,that is so ridiculous to squabble H Wiley: Is there any other taxiway that is going to be over another$40,000. built. Ted Morris: Let me tell you what I think if you go to the Ted Morris: No,just that one. City Council and ask them for more money,I would be willing to bet it's going to be a fight to get this$40,000. I Ha Wiley: That one at$12 is a whole lot less than think Harry's problem might Just go away,because I think $4000. theCity Council is,the City Manager for sure,and the City Council probably is going to deny any more capital Ted Morris: Yes,sir. Let me show you. I'm going to run an expenditures on the airport,period. You need to read the 8"water main from right here down along that road frontage minutes,and you needed to be there and listen to them. to here,and put in 3 fire hydrants,and permit people to have water service. But,that is$8 a linear foot,and about 1,000 Harry Wiley: What happened to the idea,is it an ordinance feet worth of water main,or$12 a foot at 700. Any way, or not about the underground service? that's another$8,000,there goes my$40,000. Ted Morris: No, it is not an ordinance. There are no Harry Wiley: Well,at$10 it is only going to cost$12,000 to ordinances at all on the airport other than the City Municipal run power within 200 feet of it,right'.. Code. We are not zoned,there is nothing. There is only what is agreed to in leases. That is the big problem that we Ted Morris: It is not going to cost me anything right now. are dealing with when I handed out the proposed ordinance, That is the point. Utilities is building the power lines. They and so on and so forth. One of the things that my boss is are going to do it for free. I don't have to pay for it. I have pushing me to do is to write a zoning code for the airport. to pay to run the water,but,I don't have to pay to run the power,and the other thing I'm asking them to do,and this is LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 30 of 38 all out of the goodness of their heart,is that I've asked them Ted Morris: They asked for it,we put it in the lease,we sent to run the power line up whatever road winds up here,so that it forward,and it got approved at Utilities and everywhere we can power this up. I've also asked them to run the power else,and the City Council voted on it and said,yes. from here all the way to here,so that Hal can power up his T- hangars and maybe get more rent for them,or something. (Unclear words-several people talking.) Harry Wiley: What would happen if you asked them to run it Ted Morris: No,he didn't. He didn't have too. He had a this way,since we don't know how all of this is going to be conduit running to his place. The point is,that was pointed developed? What if they went straight up here and then over, out very specifically to them right on the Council Action and then you take this down later? Form,and because they pulled it off the Consent,I stood up and briefed them on it. So,the City Council was well aware Ted Morris: Because I need to put this taxiway in now, of the requirement,and voted for it. because I have no other parcels to lease out to someone who wants to build a hangar. There are none anywhere on the Harry Wiley: It's just that we have developed the airport so airport,unless we can have Hal relinquish all this space along far with this standard of underground utility distribution. It here,relocate that T-hangar,and then we can pay the feds for has been part of the... destroying this ramp. Or,the City can buy him out,or whatever we could do there,move their two sunshades,and a Ted Morris: Sir,that is not true,you've got a pole that you lot of things. There are a lot of things that we could do,but run your power from. nothing that$40,000 will pay for except this little stem taxiway. That will open up ten new parcels,and thepotential Stephanie Medoff. But, it's not within the hangar area. It is for ten new developments,and at the rate we are going right outside on Gasoline Alley. now,the way we have been leasing parcels,we will have those leased out in two and a half years. Ted Morris: My boss,Jim Ericson,has said that this is one that he will fall on his sword over,and all of that. But,he is Jim Boykin: Why can't we build a taxiway and forget the not the one puffing in the utility line. He says that it should road for the moment? ggo underground. He would like to see everything,I would like to see everything go underground. Ted Morris: The road isn't the issue. The power line is going to go down the road. Stephanie Medoff. Everything is going above ground because it is cheaper? (Missing words due to changing tapes.) Ted Morris: That is correct. Ted Morris: He wanted to make sure that the power line would not dictate the future coarse of the road. It will if it is Stephanie Medoff: That is counterproductive of the City,I above ground. If it is underground,the road can be placed think. anywhere,taxiways can be run anywhere over that. I told him that I would ask Jorge Garcia,the City's Utilities Ted Morris: What is lost by going above ground? Let's go Engineer,if he wouldn't mind running this stuff back to what is lost,aesthetics,this is an airport. This is underground. Now,whether he is going to or not is a industrial metal buildings. financial decision he is going to make,or that Utilities is going to make. Stephanie Medoff: Yeah,and look what is happening as you drive down the hill. We have an ugly industrial metal Stephanie Medoff. But,the City is definitely in the building to the entrance to Las Cruces,I mean it is horrible. electricity business now? Ted Morris: It's not unsafe to put up the pole. It's not unsafe Ted Morris: Absolutely. to put up an above ground line,the aesthetics issue is an arguable issue,and the question is,is it worth$10 a linear Harry Wiley: Stephanie did bring up a good point. Let's foot,or$5,Or$1,it really doesn't matter. You need to go find out what the real difference is in the overhead talk to the City Council about what they are willing to spend distribution,and underground. out here. Ted Morris: It's not my call at all. It is the Utilities' call. Stephanie Medoff. It's not an Industrial Park, it's an Airport. Whatever Utilities will put in,I will not stop them from putting in above ground if that is what they say they are Ted Morris: Sure it is. It's an industrial airport. going to do,or underground if that is what they say they are going to do. Stephanie Medoff: If it doesn't matter,why did we spend the money to paint that stupid water tower out there yellow? Stephanie Medoff: Why? They don't manage the airport. Utilities doesn't manage the airport. Harry Wiley: Good question. Ted Morris: You're right,but if they say we are going to put Stephanie Medoff. Why didn't we just leave it white? in aboveground,or put in nothing,I don't have the money to put in underground. And,therefore,you don't get any Ted Morris: Because it was going to cost the same no matter power. what color it was. Stephanie Medoff. What if you opted for nothing? Stephanie Medoff: Well hell,who cares,why paint it,and let it just rust. Ted Morris: Then Mr.Mimoso and Mr.Renneckar would then sue the City for loss of everything that they have, Chuck McLean: Once more back to the service road I'll call because the City guaranteed in their lease that they would it,so you know what the hell I am talking about. What we provide this power. do,no matter what we do,can we take those power lines underground lines as far north as possible? Harry Wiley: Well,how did that happen? LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 31 of 38 Ted Morris: Yes. Ted Morris: I think the City would build them a ramp about as soon as they are going to build Mesilla Valley Aviation a Chuck McLean: In other words,if the road is running there it ramp. will be on the north side. Chuck McLean: I think we should not land lock them in,or Ted Morris: Let me put it this way. I can satisfy their block them in so this couldn't be accomplished some other requirement for wing tip clearance by shortening that last 80- time. I don't care how the hell we do it. They should be able foot parcel by 35 feet,and moving the road further north. to some day,them or with the City's assistance in help,widen But,I don't think that is the issue here. I don't think wing tip that thing. clearance,and things like that is the issue. I think the issue is,they don't have a full taxiway in front of their hangar. Jim Boykin: Is some action from this board time critical? Right. Ted Morris: Yes,because they are going to be putting in the Harry Wiley: The issue is,will we ever? poles. Ted Morris: And,that is my point. You will never have one Jim Boykin: As far as I'm concerned,I would make a unless you build it. motion right now that we ought to tell them to go Harry Wiley: Okay,but if you do what you say you're going underground. to do,we can't build it. Ted Morris: You can tell them that,and I would be more Ted Morris: Sure you can. Yes,sir,you can. than happy to pick up the phone and call... Stephanie Medoff. The very im ortant issue at this point is Harry Wiley: We can't build what the other guys have got. to get power to numbers 19 and Z 1. Ted Morris: Actually,you would have even a better deal, Ted Morris: That is one issue. because if you would just put another 20 feet out in front of your building all the way to the berm,for example,and you Stephanie Medoff: Okay,whydon't we take a pole and put it knock down the berm,you've got a private taxiway,you right here to here,and skip alltheseother poles. have a private ramp,you have plenty of room,you would be able to do that. But,you are going to have to spend, like you Ted Morris: And then you guys can taxi underneath the said,$16,000. That is the issue here I think,is who is going lines. to spend that$16,000, Stephanie Medoff: Aren't they going to have to any way? Harry Wiley: It isn't an issue. We are not going to spend it right now. Ted Morris: No. Ted Morris: But,you have that option. Chuck McLean: Only if they go east of their hangar. Harry Wiley: If we have a need for it later on,we can't Ted Morris: You know what we should do? We should all accomplish what was originally planned. We can't walk down there and look at this. accomplish what the other guys already have. We can't accomplish the same facility that the other corporate users Harry Wiley: You've got distribution near the old Wallace have. hangar that uses conduit to cross that ramp there. What is the down side of putting in more conduit? Ted Morris: Actually,you are in a better position I think if we adopt this plan,because you don't have somebody taxiing Ted Morris: There is not enough power in the transformer. by the front of your hangar to go to hangar sites further on to A new transformer has to go in. the east. You have a nice culdesac there that would be just yours. You could drive your cars and park them all over Harry Wiley: The City is going to put one in,right? They there. For example,you mentioned the car business,Hal can are going to every... do anything he wants on his ramp with cars. So can Mesilla Valley Aviation,and all of that. On the public ramp,there is Ted Morris: No,the City is going to put in one that will a different ball game,or on a taxiway,then the safety rules satisfy the needs of the current users at that location. Just as that I think are important are going to be enforced. they are going to put in one for you. Stephanie Medoff: So then actually in all these corporate Harry Wiley: Why can't we anticipate future users with the hangars,anybody can drive anywhere they want? new underground. The City is going to the old Wallace hangar,they are going to have service up to that Ted Morris: Absolutely. underground,right? Stephanie Medoff: The only driving problem that exists is Ted Morris: No,sir. They are going to have service to the really just right out in front of this building here? meter,and the meter is located right here. That is as far as the City is going to run power to it. Ted Morris: That is correct. Harry Wiley: What is wrong with anticipating with the new Chuck McLean: I still want to pursue my point. If we take City service,anticipating more users and then going under those lines further north,if we can without the damn road, that ramp with conduit? Z there may or may not ever be a road that follows those lines,then at some later date some berm work can be Ted Morris: In cutting underground here? done,and they could get enough width. So,if anyone in their benevolence wants to build them a ramp,or say they had all Harry Wiley: Sure,underground implies cutting. the right in the world to expect something down there. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 32 of 38 Ted Morris: I understand what you are saying,and go Stephanie Medoff He did some homework you think,before through right in here,and do that all underground,and then he came up here? distribute it how over here? Jim Boykin: Well,as far as I'm concerned up to this point, Harry Wiley: I don't know,that's up to you. we have always insisted on having underground service to all these things,and I think we should continue to stay that way, Ted Morris: Okay,well I can't afford that. whatever the heck it costs. And, if the City fathers won't pay for it,well it's on them. Harry Wiley: You only have these two guys that are in that row,right now that you have to service. Ted Morris: Well now,wait a minute,because it's not on them. Because what will happen is,it will then be on the Ted Morris: No,you misunderstand,there is no other place tenant. What I am trying to say,you drop power off of a pole to lease a parcel on this airport. And,I am concerned about 200 feet from your parcel,you ve got a zero lot line lease, Renneckar and Mimoso,certainly. But,I am also concerned you've built out flying wings onto City property,and all with about the nextperson that wants to build a hangar. Right the knowledge,and so now what you are saying is that,do now if they call me I say,sorry,got nothing... we give that same opportunity to these other people,exactly Harry Wiley: Look, if the City is already going to where,did the same opportunities,or what? you say here? Why don't they put in additional capacity... Vernon Wilson: Would you like to have someone build on Ted Morris: The transformer is located right here. zero lot line right in front of your lease? Ted Morris: You know,that is the thing. The Civil Air Harry Wiley: It's all underground to here. Isn't this shorter Patrol keeps asking for a place,and there would be a real nice between here and here,then it is to run from back here? place right here for a T-hangar,and they could use the back of your wall here. I'm just being facetious of course,I Ted Morris: Yes,sure it is. Here to here,but it's not shorter, wouldn't do that. any shorter then if it comes from here around,and services. Harry Wiley: That does bring up a point though. There is Harry Wiley: But,all this time we've built all these hangars 4,0acres out here. making guys go underground. Ted Morris: But the trouble is,there isn't 4,000 acres. There Ted Morris: Only because there was no way to getpower is 4,000 acres on the airport,but the cost isn't the acreage,as over to them,except to go underneath the taxiway. Now somebody pointed out in Sound Off. The cost is the power, there is a way to get power to them on a pole. the asphalt,the water,the natural gas,and the infrastructure Harry Wiley: There has always been that way. Before the to support a hangar. rules were,you've got to go underground. Stephanie Medoff. That is why in this wonderful big desert we have,we have houses sitting on top of one another with Ted Morris: No. What happened was Garland built those no elbow room. three hangar spaces and ran conduit to them. There is no other source of power there. A guy named Wayne Stevenson Ted Morris: Exactly. I could lease somebody a hangar spot was going to retire here from Toronto,and he was going to right there,but what good is it? brim in his three Lear Jets,and everything else,and he said, no I in not going to do it because it is going to cost me Harry Wiley: Out here,for instance,there are so many $12,000 to run a conduit underground to get power to my possibilities to develop out here with the same rational that hangar. we were faced with. It's close to water, it's close to power, it's close to everything,and you have a taxiway planned. So, Stephanie Medoff. And he owned three what? the idea of developin over here rather than trying to bunch everybody out,I think it needs some more thought. Ted Morris: Three Lear Jets. Ste hanie Medoff: In the mean time,when is this pole going Stephanie Medoff: And he is worried about$12,000? The up guy has got a problem. Ted Morris: I don't know. They are going to do the Change Ted Morris: Hey,listen,I have not met any pilot on this Order,I hope,to power up that end,and the other end of the airfield who is not concerned about pennies. airport as well,and if we place a bunch of stumbling blocks in front of them...I will present them as positively as I can. Stephanie Medoff. And,doesn't have a problem. But,I can fairly guarantee that if we dont allow them just to go in and put up the poles,that we will not get additional Harry Wiley: I guess the question is to me,it might be power on the airport. worth of an honest to God real engineering type study to consider serving this area underground. (Unclear words-several people speaking.) Ted Morris: I will ask the City Engineer if he will spend the Chuck McLean: Okay,let me ask a question. I just asked time and money to engineer that. But,the bottom line is,he Harry over here on the QT,when the power gets to the end of came and looked at it,and he walked the ground,and he said, WAM,assuming that in some Year there will ever bean Ted this is going to cost you$40,000. extension of that taxiway,don t we have to go underround at least to the other side of the taxiway,and come up� Stephanie Medoff. Which we have. Ted Morris: Oh,sure. And,you can do that in some future Ted Morris: Okay,when I didn't tell him I have$40,000,he year. What I'm trying to say is that the City's utility people said it was going to cost you$40,000 for the engineering,for have said that they are going to put in a pole line. the dirt work,and for the drainage solutions. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 33 of 38 Stephanie Medoff. But,these Utilities people don't run the Jim Boykin: Period. damn airport,that is what I said at the get-go. Chuck McLean: Okay,but that is one proposal. He needs Ted Morris: I know what they will say is,take your money specifics. airport,and pay for an underground line. Because Utilities is an enterprise fund,and the airport is as well. Ted Morris: That is a fine proposal. (Unclear words-several people speaking.) Jim Boykin: That's enough,that will set everyone off. We'll find out whether we get anywhere from there or not. Harry Wiley: If we get the power over here,how many sites do we open up? Chuck McLean: That failing,that they go underground any place that they have to cross over an existing or planned Ted Morris: Ten. taxiway. H Wiley: How about assessing each one of those sites at Jim Boykin: Well,they have to do that anyway. $120 underground power fee as part of the up front? You've got this other fee in here,and have them pay the Chuck McLean: Everybody is saying that,but I think we are $1,200 to pay for the underground service? talking about why they are going right across the other end of the ramp. Ted Morris: If you guys want to charge fees like that,great. We will go to the City Council and say,this is what we want Jim Boykin: I don't think it is a good idea to put poles up on to do. And,they will say,well let's charge them for the the airport. I'm against putting poles up on the airport. taxiway,and let's charge them for the water main,and let's charge them for the gas line. Ted Morris: The thing is,it is like people saying we can't put a 25 foot power pole up when we have a 150 foot water Harry Wiley: I don't understand that. How you can build a tower sticking up. This is not a safety issue,guys. taxiway here,with a straight face? Jim Boykin: Sure it is a safety issue,because it is closer to Ted Morris: How did I crack seal and acrylic seal the... the runways. Harry Wiley: I don't know,I'm in the closet. But,here we Ted Morris: No,sir. There are 50-foot poles that are going are,we are outside the closet now,how are we going to deal to be much closer then any of these power poles. with it? Jim Boykin: They don't have lines on them. Ted Morris: Because this is an economic development issue. That is the purpose of an airport. I hope everybody Ted Morris: No,but they stick up. It doesn't matter whether remembers,airplanes are incidental to an airport. there is a line,or a simple... Jim Boykin: All the more reason for the power to be Jim Boykin: You have never done any crop dusting,have underground,so some student doesn't run into the damn high you? lines. Ted Morris: And I hope nobody is going to do any of it on Ted Morris: I'll tell you what I am going do,let me see if I the airport. can explain this. I am going to try and get Utilities to put the line underground,but,if they say no it is going to go on Jim Boykin: It makes a lot of difference. poles,I'm goingto say,have at it. Then,I'm going to build that taxiway,if I can talk the City Manager into expending Stephanie Medoff. Yeah,Jim,but what crops are going to be the$40,000 that is already budgeted,and I am going to run planted on those taxiways? water down there,and put in three fire hydrants in addition. Jim Boykin: Well,all I'm saying is,if somebody slips over a Harry Wiley: I just want to understand what you are going to little bit in a cross wind,and hits a high line,we sure are do. If the poles go above ground you are going to build the going to look stupid. road as shown? Ted Morris: It is not a high line. Ted Morris: I am going to build the pole line. I'm not building any road. I can get a six wheeler,and grade any Jim Boykin: It is a power line. road anywhere I want over there,that is not a problem. Ted Morris: The power line will be lower than this building Stephanie Medoff: This sounds to me like this whole next door to us. discussion should never have taken place,because you are going to do what you want to do anyway. Harry Wiley: If Jack goes back and flies helicopters on that ramp,it's a real problem. Ted Morris: No. What I am saying is,this is my proposal for developing the airport. Now,if you have an alternative to Stephanie Medoff. The power line is lower than the that proposal,see I didn't finish my statement. This is what I building? am going to propose,and if you guys have a counter- proposal,or you would like to modify it in very specific Ted Morris: Yeah,the power poles are not going to stick up ways,then I will go forward with your request. very tall. They are just little 25-foot poles with a line on it. Jim Boykin: I propose we put all power underground on the Stephanie Medoff: How tall is WAM's hangar? airport. Harry Wiley: It is probably 25 feet,maybe,something like Chuck McLean: As a first step,right? that. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2,1997 Page 34 of 38 Ted Morris: The pole line will probably be lower than the of the board that we should not lock WAM in against that peak of their hangar. berm,and would cooperate in probably some later date Jim Boykin: I don't remember any other airport that has high expanding their apron to the north, if we have the funds. lines running up and down... Stephanie Medoff: This is an issue that has been brought before this board this afternoon,and I don't think that we Ted Morris: It is not high lines. should make the decision this quickly. Jim Boykin: Okay,I don't remember any airport that has (Unclear words-several people speaking.) power limes running up and down on it. A power pole behind the hangars, is not up there in Albuquerque or anywhere else. Jim Boykin: Well,to me I think it is,because actually they Ted Morris: Okay,then let me ask this question. had a good faith agreement. Ted Morris: Well,we can get out their good faith agreement, Hal Kading: How many power lines doyou see downtown and read it verbatim,because everything that was promised is here anymore? They are all underground. in that agreement,that's it. For thirteen years that hangar has Jim Boykin: It is not aesthetics for out here. been okay, and now it is not? Chuck McLean: I think they feel the ship is sailing,and they Ted Morris: Sure it is,that is the only issue here. had better say something. Jim Boykin: I disagree. Harry Wiley: All of the sudden the equation is changing,and here we are raising our hand saying,wait a minute. Ted Morris: It is not a safety issue. Ted Morris: You mentioned the other day that you could Jim Boykin: I think it is a safety issue. knock down that berm,and you could do all that dirt work. Ted Morris: Now,let me ask a question. If Utilities says no, Harry Wiley: Yes. we are going to put them on poles or nothing,what is the boards' recommendation then going to be? Ted Morris: Why don't you go do that? Stephanie Medoff: Nothing,because I don't think that the Vernon Wilson: It's not on their property,it is not on their City Utilities should dictate to the airport. I just don't. lease,they couldn't do that. Ted Morris: But,the issue is not safety,and it is money and Ted Morris: We could sit down and work something out, aesthetics, isn't it? and you could take all that dirt and put it down there at the Stephanie Medoff: It's money,and it is Mimoso and end of Gasoline Alley where we dump everything. Renneckar. Because,if those two parcels weren't now leased Stephanie Medoff: Can he move all the dirt,then what does out,and you are under the gun to give them power. that solve? Ted Morris: I'm not under the gun to give them anything. Chuck McLean: It gets us in a posture to make damn sure.. Stephanie Medoff: I thought you were. Ted Morris: I have$40,000 I can build a taxiway anywhere. I can't afford to do dirt work,and taxiways. If he preps it,I Ted Morris: The City hasguaranteed that they will get can build a taxiway on it. power to them by March 31st. Stephanie Medoff. It seem to me now the big thing is,we Stephanie Medoff: That is kind of under the gun. I call that have to hurry up and cowl to Utilities,because they are going under the gun. to put this pole up,or not put time to fix the berm.ut it up within the next(unclear Ted Morris: The City is,I'm not personally. They asked for word)weeks. They don't that in their lease,and I put it in their lease,we presented it to Ted Morris: Chuck made a motion that the line go the City Council,and the City Council said yes,we will do underground,and I goaded him,and I'll say,it must go that. underground. Stephanie Medoff: Okay,well as the City Council's Hal Kadin* g: You can go to the City Council,and get them to representative,Manager at the airport,you are under the gun. say that all power lines on the airport be underground. Jim Boykin: Well,didn't Mimoso just sayy he didn't have to Harry Wiley: Well,it's been said in various documents at the ask for it,it was already in there. 1'thought Mimoso,I mean, airport here. The question is,is any of those still operative? I thought Ditmore just said he didn't have to ask for it. Ted Morris: No. It's not been said in any document on the Chuck McLean: He didn't,he had a conduit that ran right to airport. What it says is,that you must take power from the his parcel. source to your property underground. That means you drop off,you do exactly what WAM did,which is drop off the Stephanie Medoff: What do we do here? We've got to get pole and run underground to their meter. through this meeting. Harry Wiley: I don't know what happened to this,but once Chuck McLean: Well,there are three things,absolutely upon a time,this was going to become law. none,then if they have to put them above ground,then they definitely have to go underground crossing any existing,and Ted Morris: Oh,that did not happen. No,that died. That I emphasize,or proposed taxiway. I think a third issue from was killed by a bunch of people. all of this is,I think from what I am hearing is,it is the sense r LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2,1997 Page 35 of 38 Harry Wiley: The requirement for us to do it was... Stephanie Medoff. How many people do we have clamoring Ted Morris: Because, in part they did not want all those for these parcels in the next twelve months? restrictions on development there,Harry. Ted Morris: At the rate that we have leased out in the past year and a half,we will fill those ten parcels in less than two Gene Kennon: If,you can work out a deal with Harry,for and a half years. him to do some earth work down there,that would release the $40,000 for something else. Stephanie Medoff: How many new hangars have we built in Ted Morris: That's right. the last two years? Ted Morris: This one,this one,this one,and that one. There Gene Kennon: Now,we've got power underground in part are three of them that are in the process of being built. But, of the areas, is that true? I just want to establish that. four in the last year. Ted Morris: Any power that is there is underground. Stephanie Medoff. Four in the last year? Okay. These here, Gene Kennon: And,any time we would cross a taxiway,like their doors would face that way? your new one here,any place along there,we would have to Ted Morris: Yes,Madame. The door would be like this. go underground? Stephanie Medoff: Okay,so that opens up five more parcels Ted Morris: That is correct. to develop in the next two years? Gene Kennon: So, it would seem to me,that wouldn't it be Ted Morris: It opens up ten. These five,and those five. logical to keep the underground policy,and maybe use that $40,000 somewhere else in here,other than the earth work, Stephanie Medoff. Okay,and you can do that this year? wouldn't that solve this problem? Ted Morris: Yes,Madame. I can get them water,and I can Ted Morris: Yes,except that we are going to have to getgget them power,and I can get them pavement for$40,000. Utilities to put the power underground. Or,I can do some lesser thing. Gene Kennon: Yeah,okay. Would that$40,000 take care of Stephanie Medoff. I feel even though everyone will argue that? this is not economically sensible,I think we service who is here first before... Ted Morris: But,then we wouldn't have a taxiway,and couldn't lease out a parcel. I can get the power for free Ted Morris: I think they are serviced. above ground,I know that. I'll ask them for underground, they might do it. I can build a taxiway,and provide water to Stephanie Medoff: It feels like they are getting un-serviced. the parcel boundaries and then I have ten parcel to lease out. But,I only have this$40,000. If I spend it puffingg ower Ted Morris: I don't see that. There is 122 feet in front of underground,I have no pavement for them to buildpup to. their hangar before the first obstruction. And,if we move Wiley: For what we think the cost of pavement isthis road 35 feet north,and make this parcel 125 feet,and this Harry , one over here some other distance,we can divide these u a you've got that well within$40,000. You've got money left little bit differently. They still have this 122 feet to the fust over. obstruction if we move the road there. I don't think that is Ted Morris: For water. the issue here. I honestly don't think that is the issue. Harry Wiley: How much is the pavement? Stephanie Medoff. What do you think is the issue? Ted Morris: I think the issue is,who is going to finish this Ted Morris: I'm hoping$10. Right now,I think the budget taxiway right in front of their hangar. That is what the issue is probably$12 a square yard,and I'm hoping for$10.50. is. Stephanie Medoff. Which taxiway are you talking about for Stephanie Medoff: I don't think that is the issue. $40,000. Ted Morris: No? Okay. Then this would give them the Ted Morris: This one. No,this one would cost$32,000. option of never having an obstruction in front of them if we Forty thousand dollars would run the one that they want built. just moved this road 35 feet to the north. Harry Wiley: Not that we want built. We just don't want our Stephanie Medoff. How do you feel about that,Harry? ability to build it compromised. Harry Wiley: Well,I think the road definitely needs to be Stephanie Medoff. Yeah,they're not asking to have this moved 35 feet to the north before any...so we have the same thing built. clearance the other hangars have between obstructions. Now, and then the power lines built in front of that,which I don't Harry Wiley: The one you are going to build is this one here, agree with. But, if you've got to put it there,it is better than right? putting it where it might go... Ted Morris: That is correct. Ted Morris: It wouldn't be built in front of it. It would be Stephanie Medoff: For what purpose? built 122.69 feet to the north of your parcel. Harry Wiley: Which I don't agree it should be above ground, Ted Morris: So that I can lease out this piece,this piece,this but if it has to be,then that is where we would like it. piece,this piece,this piece,this piece,and this one,this one, this one,and that one. I have ten new parcels. LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 36 of 38 Stephanie Medoff: So,this is something of a compromise. drive through that gate has caused me unbelievable This is something if they move the road 35 feet up to the heartache. north. Chuck McLean: I think if the street access,which in essence Jim Boykin: So,will that cut you down to nine hangars? you can say you have a potential for street access on one side of the building,and all the guys on this side have street Ted Morris: Eight or Nine. Also,it cuts off 35 feet worth of access,that is a non-issue. The customers should be taxiway,so then I am saving money on that expense,and so restricted to the street side of their hangar,not on their ramp. on and so forth. Vernon Wilson: You need to put culdesacs to get to any Harry Wiley: The whole thing is,if you don't call it a road, additional... then you build your power line right along the building lot edge,you still have 122 feet,and you are alright. You Just Chuck McLean: You're talking about if someone else like abandon calling it a road. Marty Ditmore or Wallace. Chuck McLean: Service easement. Ted Morris: Let me tell you what everybody's lease right now says. It says that,for example,Mesilla Valley Aviation, Ted Morris: I appreciate how people all get along,and drive or Frank Borman's,or yours, it doesn't matter,they all say so carefully,and safely amongst themselves,and mix with that your customers,and guests,and invitees,are welcome to airplanes,and nothing happens. If this airport grows in the use the public parking lots provided for that purpose. So,if way that it has been growing,and at the pace it has been we really wanted to enforce things,we tell everybody the growing,in fifteen years there won't be a friendly face on the only legal parking lot on this airport is right across the street airport behind the wheel. We need to prepare for the long- from the terminal. Hal's parking lot isn't even legal. So,we term future of this airport when it comes to roads,and things could tell everybody they have to park over there,and walk like that. I very much recommend against abandoning the to...and boy,you know what would happen then. idea of roads and alleyways for access to hangars and parcels. I am very much against the idea of using the aprons and Harry Wiley: So,then we ask the City,where are you going taxiways for access to parcels. to construct our public parking lot for our customers? Harry Wiley: I'm trying to think of an airport where they do Ted Morris: And,yours is right here. But,you understand have separate roads that airplanes don't use. what I'm trying to say. Ted Morris: Most airports have just exactly what we have on Stephanie Medoff. Okay,where do we stand on this? this main apron. Now,someboyy,the Airport Advisory Board in the past,permitted the feds to build an apron so Jim Boykin: Chuck,are you going to make a motion? close to the street,or permitted the City to build a street so close to the apron,that the only thing you can put in between Chuck McLean: Yes,sir,a three part motion. One: The them is a fence. Instead of leaving 150 feet between the road sense of the Board is that we do not want above ground and the apron,so that we could line the apron with hangars, utilities in that area. Number Two: If the alternative is which would be the correct solution,and that is the way most above ground utilities,then we want underground utilities airports are set up. But,it didn't happen. any place that,that line would cast a shadow on a present or future taxiway. Number Three: We want at some Chuck McLean: I sort of agree with Harry,in the storage future date to cooperate with the widening of their apron. area,it is pretty well the road between the hangar is a street. Don't give it any feet,please. I mean,it is a taxiway becoming a street. Look at El Paso,it is a great example. Jim Boykin: I will second that motion. Ted Morris: However,what should we do then about Stephanie Medoff: Okay,Jim Boykin seconded,let's discuss Southwest Air Ambulance? Should we permit them to this real quick before we vote on it. Any more discussion on continue their operations? Your lease,WAM's lease,permits this issue. Discussion about underground utilities,we left it you to convert your hangars to commercial use,andpay 2% kind of open to the City. Harry? Ready to vote? All those in of your gross receipts as a fee for doing that. Should we favor of the motion as stated by Chuck seconded by Jim permit commercial use out of your hangar,or do they revert Boykin,raise your right hand. Okay,tfiat is our back to just storage hangars? If all of the sudden we have recommendation. customers coming to hangars,we need to have a road to access those hangars,and not allow the general public,and Ted Morris: I will go forward with what you have requested general customers to travel on taxiways. Now,we can solve to the Utilities Division. the problem,and eliminate roads by prohibiting commercial activities in those hangars. Stephanie Medoff: Harry,please pass on to WAM,and anybody else you see on this airport,that we really do try to Harry Wiley: And,you can also stop it by filtering the work with everybody. people coming in. Harry Wiley: We are all going to work toward that. Ted Morris: You don't even begin to understand the difficulty I have with those people down at Mesilla Valley Stephanie Medoff: Thank you for spending all afternoon Aviation about that damn gate. here. Chuck McLean: There you go. Harry Wiley: I didn't know how much fun I've been missing all these years. Stephanie Medoff. That is true. Stephanie Medoff: Come back any time. Are we done with Ted Morris: The point is,a gate that is located 75 feet from everything? their front door,and trying to limit the number of people that LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 37 of 38 Ted Morris: Actually the pavement maintenance schedule,I Stephanie Medoff. Any discussion,are we done on the Oave you all a letter about it,and it is going to begin Monday. agenda? n the 15th and 16th there is going to be massive disruptions to operations on the airport. Chuck McLean: Aren't we going to have a meeting,like in a week? Stephanie Medoff: Hal,are you listening to massive disruptions? Stephanie Medof£ What is this land lease proposal that is on Ted Morris: Massive disruptions to operations on the airport the New Business? on the 15th and 16th, it's in this little thing Hal will get a Ted Morris: The land lease proposal that I was going to letter,and all the rest of that sort of thing,but,please,please, discuss,was goingto be for hangar site between this building please,those of you who are regularly on the auport,inform and the National Guard hangar by a Mr.Atkins,and he has people. I do want to point out,because I know Jun goes not presented it yet. down to Mesilla Valley Aviation a lot,and I want to point out a couple of things that we have worked out with the Stephanie Medoff. So we are okay,we can wait until next contractor. One,is that right after lunch on the 15th,which is month? Alright,is there any other... Wednesday the 15th of October,we are going to do this section riot here. It takes about four hours for that stuff to Ted Morris: I would like to ask for relief from having to do a set up,so flet everybody down at Mesilla Valley Aviation verbatim transcript of these minutes. If there is a section that know that on the 15th they need to plan on not being able to you all would like... access the airport from their third world parking rampright here. That is the time we are going to set aside,it is probably Stephanie Medoff. I think the discussion about Aviation Day the least used time during the day,and that is the best I can is very important to be on the record. And,I think that the promise. The other thing is,that we are going to do Apron C, discussion about WAM is very important to be on the record. which in this little diagram,runs from the terminal to the National Guard hangar area,we are going to do that on the Ted Morris: And,there wasn't anything else,was there? second day,the 16th. Everybody can move their airplanes onto that,but,then they have to move them back out to their Chuck McLean: WAM will take her eight hours,and we sure other areas by 7:00 on the morning of the 16th,because that repeated ourselves. We know what the key issues are. is when we are going to do this. And,in-between Mesa flights in the middle of the day,we will do this section right Stephanie Medoff: I just think that, so when other WAM in here. We are going to have to do a lot of repainting,we people come back and say that you guys this,that,and the are going to have to repaint all the taxiway stripes,and the other thing,I'll say,read it. lines on Taxiway Alpha,because we are going to do all of Taxiway Alpha,and Taxiway Delta,and so it is going to take Ted Morris: The requirement of the State Open Meetings us a while to get that accomplished. We will try to get the Act,and a bunch of other things is that the minutes be hold lines back in as quickly as possible,if.you would let produced in a certain period of time after the meeting. I think people know to use their discretion and their good sense in the period is five working days. Could we set a different taxiing around. Anyway,the 15th and 16th are going to be schedule for that,that would give Susan rather than ch real toudays,I would like to point out that I argued, occupying her entire time for two or three days to type these successfully,to do this on a Wednesday and Thursday, minutes could we get you the minutes,let's say,a week instead of on a Saturday and Sunday,which is what the before tfie next meeting,as opposed to five days after the contractor wanted to do. I thought that would absolutely be current meeting? unacceptable. Stephanie Medoff: Thank you,that would be. Stephanie Medoff: Certainly. Harry Wiley: The meeting in two weeks is practically the Ted Morris: We offered a part time maintenance worker same thing. position to a guy named,Mr.Robert Eres,and he called today,and may or may not accept the position. I will know Stephanie Medoff' The meeting in two weeks is to deal with tomorrow. Rental Cars. Aviation Day. Gene Kennon: Why don't we defer until next time,and I will Gene Kennon: An input meeting. just say that I am doing some research on the conditions,and exploring the possibilities. Just today,Ted handed me a note Stephanie Medoff: If we can have.... that somebody had called,and wanted to talk about rental car service out here,and so that is where it stands right now. I Ted Morris: Aviation Day stuff by then. am doing research,I am talking to Hal,I am talking to the terminal people, Sherrie and Kamme,and anybody else Jim Boykin: We are not going to have a quorum for that including Hertz Rental Car trying to get information on meeting,so it doesn't have minutes. where we stand on this problem right now,and exploring the possibilities. I have run this idea by one motel,and they Ted Morris: But,you still want to know what was said. don't want anything to do with it. I need to get information, Okay,we can do that,we can do it in pieces like that. But,if and that is what I am doing,and I will give you more we can delay in getting you the complete verbatim minutes. information later,and we will see what this lead,leads too The other thing is,that these will probably run into a hundred that came in this afternoon. I haven't even talked to the man, pages or so,could we do something besides mail them to Just an hour ago,two hours ago. you? I have a$250 mailing budget. Stephanie Medoff. No,four hours ago. It is 4:00 PM. Gene Kennon: I can come out and get them,that won't be a Thank you,Gene. problem. Jim Boykin: I make a motion that we adjourn. Ted Morris: Can we do that? AM LAS CRUCES AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD MEETING,October 2, 1997 Page 38 of 38 Chuck McLean: Why not send Stephanie a copy,the rest of us can come out here and read them. Stephanie Medoff: I can come get them. Ted Morris: We will call for pick up,how is that? Chuck McLean: Stephanie,are they nailing you to the cross, too? Stephanie Medoff: I'm tired of it,I'm just real tired of it. Chuck McLean: The other night I said it loud enough to be heard around the world,when they did it to Bill Madden at that party. I think that stinks. Stephanie Medoff: What? Chuck McLean: When he was all dress up like a World War II Calvary Man,and every time I saw him,people were pointing over to the ramp,and talking in his ear about this thing. Stephanie Medoff. I was at a birthday party down in the neighborhood,and the Mayor happened to be there,and Charles Trego happened to be there,and you know because I missed the last meeting,gosh,what is going on up there? I had not read the minutes,and I think,you know,I'm tired of this,we have got to get a handle on what is happening at that airport,the morale is so low. We have just got to do something about it. I say,these four-hour meetings are very unfortunate,but they will end, it will not always be this way. Ted Morris: I think this was a good meeting. I personally think this was not an acrimonious meeting. Ed Lindsay: (Unclear words)...would that be appropriate for someone to present at this meeting,or should they just go right straight to City Council? Ted Morris: Everything that goes to the Council,really should come through this Board first. The things for example,a leasehold that is established by the City Council, you know,the boilerplate that is there. For example,with Mimoso and those other leases,brought it to these folks,and told them what we were going to do,then we ran it through everybody,and briefed it to the City Council,because there was a change to the boilerplate. But,the next lease that goes out,if there is no change,the precedence has been set,so we just funnel it forward. But,if there is a change to anything,a user fee of some sort,or anything else,this group if they don't say yea,the chances of the City Council saying yea,are zip. Ed Lindsay: With regard to... Ted Morris: To anything regarding the airport. Chuck McLean: Ed,we have worked twenty years,that I know of,to get this to become a matter of fact. It used to be that they didn't even know what the hell the Airport Board was,or knew we were here. Ask Harry Wiley about it. Jim Boykin: So moved. Chuck McLean: It has already been moved. Stephanie Medoff: Has it already been moved? Chuck McLean: About 15 minutes ago. Stephanie Medoff. I'm sorry,meeting adjourned. Meeting adjourned at 4:30 PM. AIRPORT MANAGER'S REPORT FOR AIRPORT ADVISORY BOARD - Oct. 2, 1997 TEXT: YOUR NOTES: AIP Project#12: "Taxiway C"Project. - FAA grant approved& received. - State grants all received. - Contract approved by City Council - C.S. McCrossan. - Next: -- Pre-construction conf. -- Sponsor certification documents. -- Redesign of gates. Airport Policy progress &time/phase: - Today-proposed ordinance. - Next time: Fees & Charges, lease boilerplate, etc. as accompanying resolutions. Auto Sunshades: Pre-con here 10:00 a.m., Oct. 7, 1997. Aviation Day: MOA between City and ADC expired Oct. 1. Bomber Week complete (whew!). Chuck? Bright View Land Company development: Nothing to report. Electricity: Underground Conduit installed. Pole lines marked out. Fuel Storage/refueling. Fire Department now primary. Hangar Parcel Leases - Requests approved by City Council on Sept. 15: -- Ed Mimoso for parcel 21. -- Mel Renneckar for parcel 19. - Mr. Wallace paid annual rent for this year, but has not yet responded to a request for what he intends with Parcel 17. Master Plan. Proposed new East End `hangar subdivision.' Pavement Maintenance. Pre-con held Oct. 1. Crack Seal week of Oct. 6 - 10. Acrylic Seal Oct. 15 & 16. Personnel. Part time maintenance worker position offered to Mr. Robert Eres. 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