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03-22-2011 MW YM City of las Cruces" P E O P L E N E L P I N 6 P E O P L E PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION AGENDA The following agenda will be considered by the Planning and Zoning Commission of the City of Las Cruces, New Mexico, at a public hearing held on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 beginning at 6:00 p.m. at City Hall, 700 N. Main Street, Las Cruces, New Mexico. The City of Las Cruces does not discriminate on the basis of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, color, ancestry, serious medical condition, national origin, age, or disability in the provision of services. The City of Las Cruces will make reasonable accommodation for a qualified individual who wishes to attend this meeting. Please notify the City Community Development Department at least 48 hours before the meeting by calling 528-3043 (voice) or 1-800-659-8331 (TTY) if accommodation is necessary. This document can be made available in alternative formats by calling the same numbers listed above. I. CALL TO ORDER II. APPROVAL OF MINUTES — February 22, 2011 III. POSTPONEMENTS - Postpone to April 26, 2011 1. Case Z2831: Application of Sandra Espiritu to rezone from R-1 a (Single-Family Residential Medium Density) to O-2C (Office, Professional with Limited Retail Service - Conditional) on a 0.29 ± acre tract located on the southwest side of South Solano Drive 160± ft. south of its intersection with Milton Ave.; a.k.a. 2220 South Solano Drive; Parcel ID# 02-19890. Proposed Use: Professional Office Uses with Limited Retail Service - Conditional. Council District 2. 2. Case Z2833: Application of Jonathan Boldt, Managing Member, Mayfield Properties LLC to rezone a 1.5 ± acre lot from A-2 (Rural Agriculture) to R-2 (Multi- Dwelling-Low Density). The Zone Change Request will bring the subject property into compliance with the 2001 Zoning Code. The subject property is located at the terminus of Mayfield Road; a.k.a. address 1905 Mayfield Road; Parcel ID# 02- 00381; Proposed Use: Unspecified residential use; Council District 4. IV. OLD BUSINESS 1. Case Z2828: Application of Borderland Engineers & Surveyors to rezone a 5.21 ± acre tract from C-2(Commercial Medium Intensity) to R-1a (Single-family Medium Density) for 0.94 ± acres and C-2 (Commercial Medium Intensity) to C-3-C 1 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION 2 FOR THE 3 CITY OF LAS CRUCES 4 City Council Chambers 5 March 22, 2011 at 6:00 p.m. 6 7 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: 8 Charles Scholz, Chairman 9 Godfrey Crane, Vice Chair 10 Charles Beard, Secretary 11 Ray Shipley, Member 12 13 BOARD MEMBERS ABSENT: 14 William Stowe, Member 15 Shawn Evans, Member 16 Donald Bustos, Member 17 18 STAFF PRESENT: 19 Cheryl Rodriguez, Development Services Administrator 20 Ellie Cain, Senior Planner 21 Jennifer Robertson, Planner 22 Adam Ochoa, Planner 23 Helen Revels, Associate Planner 24 Mark Dubbin, Fire Department 25 Jared Abrams, CLC Legal Staff 26 Lora Dunlap, Recording Secretary 27 28 I. CALL TO ORDER (6:00 pm) 29 30 Scholz: Good evening and welcome to the Planning and Zoning Commission 31 for March 22, 2011. My name is Charlie Scholz, I'm the Chair. Before 32 we begin, I always introduce the members of the Commission. We 33 have a quorum tonight; four members. On my right, far right is 34 Commissioner Shipley; he's the Mayor's Appointee. Next to him is 35 Commissioner Crane. Commissioner Crane represents Council District 36 4; he's also our Vice Chair. Next to him is Commissioner Beard and 37 Commissioner Beard represents District 2 and he is our Secretary and 38 1 represent Council District 6. 39 40 II. APPROVAL OF MINUTES — February 22, 2011 41 42 Scholz: The first item of business is always the approval of the minutes of the 43 previous meeting; that'll be February 22, 2011. Gentlemen, any 44 additions or corrections to the minutes? Commissioner Shipley. 45 1 1 Shipley: Yes, one correction on page 4, line 30. After again, semi-colon; there 2 should be a for, f-o-r; "for the variance." 3 4 Scholz: Okay. 5 6 Shipley: That was the only correction. 7 8 Scholz: Alright; Commissioner Crane, you had a correction? 9 10 Crane: Yes, I have two; I don't know if it's in order for me to speak for Mr. 11 Abrams but I happened to notice that... 12 13 Scholz: Well, he's here and he's looking quizzically at you. 14 15 Crane: Did you notice the egregious error; page 14, line 27? Apparently not; 16 he said "when somebody's not" (inaudible)... "Somebody does not 17 second the motion", not succumb. 18 19 Scholz: Does not second the motion, okay. 20 21 Crane: Many motions of course deserve to be succumbed but not that one. 22 23 Scholz: Very likely, yes and what else? 24 25 Crane: Page 24, line of point line 39; findings and discussion. 26 27 Scholz: Put an i-n-g on findings; right, findings and discussion. Okay, any other 28 additions or corrections? Alright then I'll entertain a motion to approve. 29 30 Beard: So moved. 31 32 Shipley: Second. 33 34 Scholz: Okay, it's been moved and seconded to approve the minutes as 35 amended; all those in favor say aye. 36 37 All Commissioners: Aye. 38 39 Scholz: Those opposed same sign. Alright, the minutes are approved. 40 41 III. POSTPONEMENTS — Postpone to April 25, 2011 42 43 1. Case Z2831: Application of Sandra Espiritu to rezone from R-1 a (Single- 44 Family Residential Medium Density) to O-2C (Office, Professional with 45 Limited Retail Service - Conditional) on a 0.29 ± acre tract located on the 46 southwest side of South Solano Drive 160± ft. south of its intersection with 2 1 Milton Ave.; a.k.a. 2220 South Solano Drive; Parcel ID# 02-19890. 2 Proposed Use: Professional Office Uses with Limited Retail Service - 3 Conditional. Council District 2. 4 5 2. Case Z2833: Application of Jonathan Boldt, Managing Member, Mayfield 6 Properties LLC to rezone a 1.5 ± acre lot from A-2 (Rural Agriculture) to R- 7 2 (Multi-Dwelling-Low Density). The Zone Change Request will bring the 8 subject property into compliance with the 2001 Zoning Code. The subject 9 property is located at the terminus of Mayfield Road; a.k.a. address 1905 10 Mayfield Road; Parcel ID# 02-00381; Proposed Use: Unspecified 11 residential use; Council District 4. 12 13 Scholz: Okay, we have two postponements I see and they are Case Z2831 14 and Case Z2833. Alright, Mr. Ochoa do you want to speak to those or 15 just nod? 16 17 Ochoa: Yes sir, that is correct. 18 19 Scholz: Okay that's good, and then we don't have to do anything about that. 20 21 IV. OLD BUSINESS 22 23 Scholz: Okay, our next one is Old Business Case Z2828; the application of 24 Broadland (Borderland) Engineers and let's see who's up; Ms. Revels, 25 you're up. 26 27 Revels: Good evening, Helen Revels for the record. The case I have for you 28 this evening is a zone change request for Case Z2828. It's located at 29 the north side of Bataan Memorial West, east of Mesa Grande Drive. 30 The address is 5195 Bataan Memorial West; it encompasses 5.21 31 acres and they're proposing to rezone from C-2 to R-1 a, C-3. 32 Here are your case specifics. The property is currently zoned C-2 33 which is Commercial Medium Intensity. The current use is single family 34 residence, a pizzeria. The property also has two vacant buildings that 35 were formerly used for auto sales. The proposed zoning is R-1 a, 36 Single Family Medium Density and C-3, Commercial High Intensity. 37 The proposed zoning will bring the property into compliance with the 38 2001 Zoning Code for the single family use and allow for future 39 development of the property for an unspecified commercial use or 40 uses. A replat will be required to create two separate lots; one for the 41 single family use and the other for the unspecified commercial use or 42 uses. The replat process will also trigger road improvements and/or 43 right-of-way dedication for Cortez Drive. Any new development will 44 require conformance to the 2001 Zoning Code, as amended and any 45 other City of Las Cruces requirements which include buffering between 46 the different uses on and adjacent to the property. 3 1 Here's a copy of the zoning plat here and you'll see that the 2 applicant is proposing to cut out this lot here for the resident that 3 currently exists and then the other 4.26 acres is the proposed 4 commercial lot that they're proposing to rezone to C-3. 5 Here's an aerial map of the location now. Here's a zoning and 6 thoroughfare map which you can see that there's C-2 zoning, there's 7 R-1 a adjacent to the property and we have the highway which Bataan 8 Memorial West is a Minor Arterial. 9 Findings; the subject property is located between Bataan Memorial 10 West and Cortez Drive, address 5195 Bataan Memorial West and 11 encompasses 5.21 acres. The property is currently used for single 12 family use, a pizzeria and has two vacant commercial buildings. The 13 zone change request from C-2 to R-1 a and C-3 would bring the subject 14 property into compliance with the 2001 Zoning Code. A replat will be 15 required to create two separate distinct lots on the subject property. 16 The rezoning request is consistent with the goals and objectives and 17 policies of the City of Las Cruces Comprehensive Plan. 18 Staff recommendation this evening; staff recommends to approve 19 the zone change with the following conditions: a development 20 application shall be submitted, approved and recorded for the 21 replatting of the subject property into two lots. The developer shall 22 comply with any road improvements and/or right-of-way dedication 23 required by this process. No access shall be permitted off of Cortez 24 Drive for the proposed C-3 lot. The developer shall comply with all 25 requirements of the 2001 Zoning Code, as amended including 26 buffering between the C-3 and R-1 a properties and any new utilities 27 shall be placed underground. 28 Your options this evening are to approve the zone change as 29 recommended by staff with the conditions I mentioned earlier, to 30 approve the zone change with conditions deemed appropriate by this 31 body, deny the zone change or table and postpone the zone change. 32 Planning and Zoning Commission is a recommending body to City 33 Council for zone change cases, which has the final authority. I will 34 stand for any questions you have and the applicant is also here. 35 36 Scholz: Thank you Ms. Revels. Questions? Commissioner Shipley. 37 38 Shipley: Thank you, very nice presentation. I just have two questions. One; 39 when I looked at the property, I read the condition that says that they 40 would... the commercial use will not have access to Cortez and the 41 reason I looked at that very closely was, when I looked at Cortez, 1 42 believe Cortez was once a county road, is that correct? 43 44 Revels: I'm not really sure if it was a county road; I know that when the freeway 45 came through it split it off from the Cortez that's on the other, on the 4 1 south side of the highway and I think at one point it wasn't a Local 2 roadway but once that split happened, it did become a Local roadway. 3 4 Shipley: Because it's not... is it up to standards? I mean, I was concerned 5 about weight-bearing. If a propane fuel truck went behind that on 6 Cortez, it doesn't look like it's either wide enough or... 7 8 Revels: Correct, I believe it is a 50-foot road. There may be some 9 improvements required with the replatting process. The applicant... 10 that's why we are limiting access for the C-3 property, we do not want 11 access off of the Local roadway for a C-3 use; they will have to have 12 access off of Bataan Memorial. 13 14 Shipley: So that will just be storage back in that area then? 15 16 Revels: I'm assuming, I mean we would evaluate that when the building permit 17 came in. 18 19 Shipley: Okay, thank you. 20 21 Scholz: Any other questions? Okay, I forgot to explain the process for those of 22 you who are new here. Initially what we have is the City makes its 23 presentation, then we ask the applicant to make his or her 24 presentation, then we open it to public discussion. After we've heard 25 from the public, we close it, the Commissioners talk among ourselves 26 and then we vote on it, alright? By the way for the audio, could we turn 27 it down a little bit; it's a little loud. Thank you. Okay, may we hear from 28 the applicant, please? And it's Mr. Scanlon; I thought I recognized your 29 hat when you came in. 30 31 Scanlon: Good evening Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission. My 32 name is Ted Scanlon and I represent the applicant. As was stated 1 33 guess, I think by Commissioner Shipley, Helen did a real good job as 34 usual presenting the case. I really don't have anything to add to it 35 except to reiterate that all we're doing here is bringing it into 36 compliance with the 2001 Zoning Code because it exceeds the tract 37 size for C-2 zoning and making it compatible with the land use as far 38 as the residential existing residence that's up in the northwest corner of 39 that; just kind of cleaning it all up and making it all comply with the 40 codes and compatible with the surroundings. 41 42 Scholz: Okay, questions for this gentleman? Okay, thank you very much Mr. 43 Scanlon. Is there anyone from the public who wishes to speak to this? 44 Okay, seeing no one raise their hands, I'm going to close it for public 45 discussion; Commissioners? 46 5 1 Shipley: The only comment I have is, I was just concerned about the road, 2 Cortez Street because it was... looked like it was a county road before 3 and it never had been brought up to standards; there's no curb, no 4 gutter. 5 6 Scholz: On the south side of it. 7 8 Shipley: On the north side. 9 10 Scholz: Oh, on the north side as well; I guess I didn't notice that, okay. 11 12 Shipley: It's on the north side, it runs along the north side of the property and it 13 goes to Mesa, from Mesa Grande back to, over to Mesa. 14 15 Scholz: Oh, okay. 16 17 Shipley: And I was just concerned that that was probably not going to hold up 18 very long if you put heavy trucks on there. 19 20 Scholz: Right, but they're not gonna do that. 21 22 Shipley: Well, the thing that I was looking at is that, where does a truck gonna 23 get off? If it gets off at that Mesa Grande exit, it can't go right on the 24 street; it has to loop around somewhere. In other words to get in off of 25 that or else it has to go down to the next exit on 70 and then come 26 back to the west. 27 28 Scholz: Right, but they're going to have the curb cuts next to the... off of 29 Bataan, is that right? 30 31 Scanlon: That's correct. 32 33 Scholz: Yeah, okay. 34 35 Scanlon: Access to the property will be from Bataan. I'll explain a little about 36 Cortez Road and why it looks the way it does. As you noticed on one 37 of the slides there's a residential subdivision that's several years old 38 just to the north. When this residential subdivision was developed and 39 in accordance with the requirements of the subdivision code, the 40 developers were required to build one-half of the roadway section so 41 basically what you see out there is half a road; it goes to the center 42 line. If any of the properties are developed to the south then they would 43 be required to provide roadway improvements, meaning their half of 44 the roadway and to dedicate any needed right-of-way too and that's 45 exactly what we're doing. We have submitted a replat already on this 46 property to create the lot for the residents and coinciding with the 6 1 zoning lines and we'll have... we have a responsibility for half of the 2 roadway improvements on our side of the street and how that's going 3 to be accomplished too is kind of questionable right now because it's 4 such a short stretch, it's kind of hard to get tapers and so forth in there 5 so it may end up that we can pay the City a certain amount of money 6 based on a construction cost estimate for that, that they can escrow 7 until such time that there is a comprehensive project that would pave a 8 large expanse of the south half of that roadway. 9 10 Scholz: We've done that before and so I understand. Thank you, that gives us 11 some additional information. Alright, I'll entertain a motion to approve. 12 13 Crane: So moved. 14 15 Scholz: Alright, would you, since you're moving it, would you read the 16 conditions please; they are on page nine. 17 18 Crane: I move that application Z2828 be approved with the following 19 conditions recommended by staff: 20 1. A development application shall be submitted, approved and 21 recorded for the replatting of the subject property into two lots; 22 the developer shall also comply with any road improvements or 23 right-of-way dedication required by this process. 24 2. No access shall be permitted off Cortez Drive for the proposed 25 C-3 property. 26 3. The developer shall comply with all requirements of the 2001 27 Zoning Code, as amended including buffering between the C-3 28 and R-1 a properties. 29 4. All new utilities shall be placed underground. 30 31 Scholz: Is there a second? 32 33 Shipley: There is a second. 34 35 Scholz: Okay, it's been moved and seconded. I'll call the roll; Commissioner 36 Shipley. 37 38 Shipley: Aye; findings, discussion and site visit. 39 40 Scholz: Commissioner Crane. 41 42 Crane: Aye; findings and discussion. 43 44 Scholz: Commissioner Beard. 45 46 Beard: Aye; findings and discussions. 7 1 2 Scholz: And the Chair votes aye for findings, discussions and site visit. Alright, 3 that's approved. 4 5 V. WITHDRAWALS - None 6 7 VI. CONSENT AGENDA 8 9 1. Case Z2830: Application of Doctors Conniff & Gormley Pediatric Dentistry 10 PC to rezone a 1.27 ± acre lots from 0-1 (Office, Neighborhood — Limited 11 Retail Service) to 0-2 (Office, Professional — Limited Retail Service). The 12 Zone Change Request will bring the subject properties into compliance with 13 the 2001 Zoning Code. The subject property is located on the northeast 14 corner of Missouri Avenue and Ridgemont Drive; a.k.a. address 2701 15 Missouri Avenue, Suite A, B, C; Parcel ID# 02-15396 and 02-23950; 16 Proposed Use: Medical offices; Council District 6. 17 18 2. Case Z2832: Application of Steve Bradee of Borderland Engineers and 19 Surveyors, LLC on behalf of Northstar Properties, LLC C/O The Power 20 Center Inc. to rezone from C-2 (Commercial Medium Intensity) to C-3 21 (Commercial High Intensity) on two (2) distinct tracts of land encompassing 22 a combined 1.995 +/- acres located on the east side of Telshor Boulevard, 23 2,155 +/- feet south of its intersection with Summit Court; Parcel ID# 02- 24 17441 & 02-18474; Proposed Use: Proposing to replat the two (2) existing 25 lots into one (1) new lot to develop a new power equipment dealership. 26 Council District 6. 27 28 Scholz: Okay, our next two items are on what is called the consent agenda and 29 here is how the consent agenda works. We take one vote up or down 30 from the Commission to approve these items. If anyone in the public 31 wants to speak to them, or if any staff members or any commissioners 32 want to speak to them, then we take those items off the consent 33 agenda and move them to the first order of new business. 34 Anybody want to speak to Z2830? Do I see a hand out there? No? 35 Okay, how about Z2832? Alright, I'll entertain a motion to accept the 36 consent agenda. 37 38 Beard: So moved. 39 40 Scholz: Okay, Beard moves. 41 42 Crane: Second it. 43 44 Scholz: All those in favor, say aye. 45 46 All Commissioners: Aye. 8 1 2 Scholz: Those opposed same sign. Alright, the consent agenda is passed. 3 4 VII. NEW BUSINESS 5 6 1. Case A1709: Application of Charlie Gomez of Mimco, Inc. on behalf of 7 Mesilla Valley Business Partners, LLC, to vary from the minimum required 8 length of a stacking lane for a drive-thru on two (2) tracts of land 9 encompassing 1.73± acres located at the east side of Main Street, 200 feet 10 north of its intersection with Madrid Street; a.k.a. 2300 N. Main Street; 11 Parcel ID#: 02-04320 & 02-4300; Proposed Use: The creation of a stacking 12 lane for a drive-thru. Council District 6. 13 14 Scholz: Alright, that brings us to new business and Mr. Ochoa you are the 15 presenter of new business today. 16 17 Ochoa: Good evening gentlemen; Adam Ochoa, Development Services for the 18 record. Last case we have tonight is Case A1709. It is a request for a 19 variance to the minimum required length of a stacking lane for property 20 located at 2300 North Main Street. Here you can see the vicinity map 21 of the subject property highlighted in the striped light blue; the two 22 properties right here which have frontage on Main Street and Madrid 23 Avenue. Code requirements you're looking at tonight is under the 2001 24 Zoning Code, under Article 4, Section 38-58H; this basically stipulates 25 all stacking lane requirements. The minimum stacking lane 26 requirements are as follows: Length required is 100-feet and that is 27 what we're looking at for tonight and width requirement would be 10- 28 feet except nine feet of drivable area at the point-of-service. The 29 measurement of length of a stacking lane begins at the middle of the 30 last point of service and ends at the point of entry of the stacking lane. 31 A stacking lane shall be designed in a manner that permits appropriate 32 traffic circulation and avoids congestion in the parking area; that is 33 stated in the 2001 Zoning Code. 34 Here is kind of an illustration of what we are talking about; as you 35 can see here showing the minimum 100-foot length and 10-foot width. 36 Like I said, again a stacking lane shall be designed in a manner that 37 permits appropriate traffic circulation and avoids congestion in the 38 parking area. 39 Some case specifics are the subject properties currently 40 encompass a total of 1.73 acres. They are currently zoned C-3, 41 Commercial High Intensity and are currently a shopping center. The 42 applicant is proposing to utilize a stacking lane for a drive-thru for an 43 existing restaurant in the shopping center. The applicant is proposing 44 to install an 89-foot long stacking lane along the southern face of the 45 building along Madrid Street. Like I said, it's the southern-most part of 46 the subject property along Madrid Street where the restaurant is 9 1 located. The proposed stacking lane is 11-feet shorter than the 2 minimum required 100-foot long stacking lane as required by the 2001 3 Zoning Code. 4 Here is the applicant's proposed site plan. Like I said, again here is 5 the business with an 89-foot long stacking lane measured from the 6 middle of the last point of service to where the stacking lane would 7 commence. With this they would also be doing some parking restriping 8 to make the parking stalls adjacent to the stacking lane 45-degree 9 angle parking stalls for a one-way drive-thru so essentially this area will 10 become a one-way in, one-way out area essentially. 11 Staff findings is the proposed stacking variance raises many 12 concerns with staff. The proposed stacking lane will potentially inhibit 13 the safe navigation of autos within the subject properties. They're 14 concerns on how the stacking lane may impact the flow of autos trying 15 to enter the shopping center through the Madrid Avenue entrance. The 16 proposed stacking lane may overflow into the area of the parking lot 17 designated for driving aisles causing heavy congestion in the parking 18 area. The shopping center was not designated to accommodate a 19 stacking lane for a drive-thru. 20 Comments from our Traffic Engineer was that there were concerns 21 due to what has been observed at the comparable location on EI 22 Paseo and the associated spikes in traffic flow at the peak hours which 23 is around lunchtime and after 5:00 pm. Because the proposed location 24 will only have about a two-car storage length behind the menu order 25 board, there are concerns about the potential for vehicles to back into 26 the adjacent access aisle which could eventually block the access from 27 Madrid Avenue thus impeding traffic from entering off of the city street. 28 Those are Traffic Engineering comments on the proposed variance. 29 Here is an aerial of the subject properties with a green arrow 30 pointing toward the proposed area where that would be I guess 31 developed if you will, redeveloped for the stacking lane and angled 32 parking. 33 Here are some site photos. This is looking at it from the front of the 34 building toward the rear. You can see there already, are a service 35 window and a menu board which were installed without a permit. They 36 did come in for a permit and that essentially is what led to this variance 37 and request for the variance. Here's another picture looking at it from 38 the rear of the building to the front and of course this is just a front view 39 of where the stacking lane would be proposed. 40 Staff has reviewed the requested variance and can find no basis for 41 granting the variance. Staff recommends denial based on the 42 preceding findings. Your options tonight gentlemen are: 1) to approve 43 the variance request; 2) to approve the variance request with 44 conditions deemed appropriate by the P and Z; 3) deny the variance 45 request; 4) table and postpone and direct staff accordingly. 10 1 The applicant is here to answer any questions you might have. You 2 all did receive an email of support and a petition from the applicant of 3 support and staff did receive a number of phone calls of support and I 4 guess drop-ins to the office of support for the variance application. I 5 stand for questions at this time. 6 7 Scholz: Alright, questions for this gentleman? Everyone is pouring over their 8 maps again. Commissioner Crane. 9 10 Crane: From the diagram attachment number four from Mimco, it seems as if 11 the window is being relocated to the far back of the building, is that 12 correct? 13 14 Ochoa: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Crane they are actually proposing 15 adding a second, I guess a second point of service to the entire lane 16 so that window will still... the existing window will still be utilized for the 17 stacking lane and a new one will be added to the rear, to the back of 18 the building, near the back of the building. 19 20 Crane: And there will be one menu board. 21 22 Ochoa: That's correct. 23 24 Crane: I don't see how that would solve this potential problem of the traffic 25 backing up because if somebody's waiting out here after making an 26 order, where do they drive to; the first window or the second? Are they 27 told where to go? You probably don't know that. 28 29 Ochoa: I'll leave that up to the applicant to answer sir. 30 31 Crane: Because if they had not... regardless of whether they're told which 32 window to go to, if they're told to go to the first one then there's only 33 going to be two or three car... move two or three cars before they get 34 into the parking lot. And secondly again, I'll make the comment now 35 but I noticed that Mimco has a scale of one-inch equals 20-feet on their 36 drawing; the bottom left-hand corner I think. But my eyeball of the 89- 37 foot line, dimension line that they have on there where the four cars 38 are drawn is that's about three inches long indicating it will be 60-feet. 39 Now I'm sure the 89-feet is correct but I think that the scale figure 40 needs adjustment but I have no other question for you Mr. Ochoa. 41 42 Ochoa: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Crane that picture was received through 43 an email. I'm not a hundred percent sure what size it was that the 44 applicant sent in; scanned it to send to me. I'll leave that... he can 45 answer that question for you, if you wish. 46 11 1 Crane: Yeah well regardless of whether it was expanded or contracted during 2 transmission, it would still... my point stands. 3 4 Scholz: Alright, any other questions? Okay, thank you Mr. Ochoa. May we hear 5 from the applicant please? 6 7 Gomez: Good evening Commissioners. My name is Charlie Gomez, I'm with 8 Mimco; 1 represent the applicant as well as the tenant and if I could 9 have some time. I appreciate your time and attention to this matter. We 10 are also the developers and the owners of the property adjacent to this 11 building which is the retail center across the street and the Savers 12 behind the property here so we're well in-tune to what the traffic 13 patterns are at this current location. 14 When our tenant came to us with this use in the shopping center, 15 I've been dealing with Mr. Ochoa and we've been trying to get this in a 16 way that it can get approved by the City staff and City standards as 17 well as try to get the tenant and the community a service that could 18 benefit the community down here at Main and Madrid and we are here 19 to try to come to a compromise to see if we can make this work. The 20 initial window that was put without a permit, we're trying to make that 21 be more efficient so someone can just pay at the window and then can 22 go on and pick up their food at the secondary point of service. If that is 23 a concern, we can also remove that first point of window and just have 24 that second; that only point of service at the rear of the building. Along 25 with the Traffic Engineer's comments, we will be willing to relocate the 26 menu board closer to the center of the building so that way there is 27 more stacking space between the menu board and the end of the 28 stacking lanes, if you will here. But we feel that we are requesting an 29 11-foot variance; we hope, we're trying not to impede any traffic on the 30 shopping center as well on Madrid but as the staff recommended 31 denial we are hoping that, you know their denial is based on 32 presumption that it will become a problem, it might become a problem. 33 But you know, we don't know and we ask that, you know we 34 conditionally approve this variance request and hopefully and, you 35 know we can do a time table and try it and make sure it's efficient and 36 have... Our tenants here; she can speak to how she's going to react 37 with the number of cars stacking in this lane and hopefully become 38 efficient and will not be a problem. 39 Along with myself is Mr. Dave Church who we have contacted to 40 kind of do a drive-thru impact analysis if you will, similar to the 41 restaurant that's comparable on EI Paseo and I'll let him respond to the 42 technical aspects of how many cars were in line or in queue at lunch 43 and then dinner so that way you guys have an understanding of how 44 many cars are there and I also have the tenant here with some support 45 so if you would allow them to speak at the end, I would appreciate that. 46 Thank you for your time. 12 1 2 Scholz: Before you go Mr. Gomez, I have one question at least. Gentlemen, 3 any other questions for this man? Commissioner Shipley, go ahead. 4 5 Shipley: This is a, basically a different kind of fast food in that it's not pre- 6 prepared so how long does it take to prepare an order and I think that's 7 what he's gonna address so I'll defer to that. 8 9 Scholz: Okay, good. I had one question; you said you're the property owner? 10 11 Gomez: Correct. 12 13 Scholz: Your company's the property owner? Why did you allow the sign board 14 and you know, modification to the window without a permit? 15 16 Gomez: Well, that was... we didn't allow it; it kind of happened without us 17 knowing, without realizing after the fact. 18 19 Scholz: You didn't realize that was a permitted process? 20 21 Gomez: No, no, we did realize it was a permitted process but the tenant was 22 actually doing the improvements on their own. 23 24 Scholz: I see, oh okay, that's interesting. Alright, I have a question also about 25 the letter you sent; it's not signed by you though. It's signed by Mr. 26 Rotwein and it says "the flow pattern will be modified to become one- 27 way only with the driveway at the southwest corner of the property 28 becoming an exit only." He meant I think, the southeast corner of the 29 property, didn't he? 30 31 Gomez: Yes, you are correct. 32 33 Scholz: Yeah okay, right that's a typo, right? 34 35 Gomez: Right. 36 37 Scholz: I was wondering why when I drove through that yesterday, I wanted to, 38 you know, say okay that is the southeast. 39 40 Gomez: You are correct. 41 42 Scholz: Gotcha; okay. Alright, let's hear from the other gentleman. 43 44 Church: Thank you, my name is Dave Church. I'm with Engineering Solutions 45 here in town. I was with the City twenty years and now I've been on the 46 private sector about eight years. Anyway Charlie... Mr. Charlie Gomez 13 1 contacted me to work with him on this case to assist him in any way 2 possible. During the review of the case I contacted City staff and talked 3 to Mr. Dan Soriano who is the City Traffic Engineer and we talked 4 about some of the concerns that had been brought up on the meeting 5 and what we decided to do was go take a look at some existing uses. 6 As you know those stacking lane lengths are based on, I think they're 7 pretty much based on McDonald's type establishments where they 8 have quite a bit of traffic in the lane; this use is a little bit lighter. What 9 we did, what Dan asked me to do and what we did do, himself and I 10 went out one time and he went out also one time; we went to look at a 11 similar use restaurant there on EI Paseo and to see exactly about how 12 the traffic flows and how many people show up and what we were 13 finding out, there was really two rush periods in the use, during the 14 lunchtime and during the evening time. The lunchtime was about twice 15 as busy as the evening use and during the lunchtime use; we were 16 getting numbers where we had an average length about two and a half 17 cars. If you average it out over the period, it was about two and a half 18 cars, was the average amount of cars in that line at any one time. The 19 most cars at one time were four to five cars. One time they had six 20 cars but four to five cars in the line which would be very close to what 21 we have available; cars about 13-feet. That's you know 60-some feet 22 and then you got three feet between them, let's say 80,85-feet so we're 23 pretty close to what we really need there and the average wait time in 24 the lunch was about four minutes. So you know about four, four and a 25 half minutes to get the service out. In the evening time, the lines were 26 only one and two cars long so it was a lot less in the evening time; a lot 27 less demand during that evening time. The lunchtime seemed to be the 28 peak time so I just wanted to let you know that we did look at that and 29 we're trying to do everything we can to try to keep that length down. 30 This was a first mention I've heard of moving the sign board up to 31 reduce the amount of stacking behind the sign board which could help 32 if there was a stack at the sign board so and I'm sure Charlie is willing 33 to do that if that's what we need to do. To me, I think it's a reasonable 34 use if it's allowed and if you want to give staff latitude to review it for 35 you know three months, six months, something and then if there are 36 problems then we can work through that. And if there are no problems 37 then we, I think recommend that we would allow it but it looks like it's a 38 feasible thing and would help the community. 39 1 don't know if you received the petition, did you see the petition 40 from the people? 41 42 Scholz: Yes, we got it this evening. 43 44 Church: There were 250 petitioners that would hopefully... 45 46 Scholz: All those hungry people. 14 1 2 Church: Well, you know hungry people. Anyway if there are any other 3 questions, I'd like to answer that. 4 5 Scholz: Okay, Commissioner you had a question for Mr. Church. 6 7 Shipley: My question was it... and normally at McDonald's they have your food 8 out... you order it and it's out within two minutes at the... two to three 9 minutes I'd say is the longest time but this food is prepared. I mean, 10 you know, if you want teriyaki chicken or you want something else, 11 they've got to prepare that and so how long...? 12 13 Church: Well I think it's made up; they have to prepare the tray. You know, 1 14 think they have a lot (inaudible). 15 16 Shipley: Well it's a to-go (inaudible) in a to-go package. 17 18 Church: Buffet style but they have to prepare the food into the order that's 19 made and that's also what I noticed happening and I'm sure would 20 happen here too and it could happen especially if there's... if the 21 owner's very aware, is many times when that stack got long in the 22 observe lining, the window lady would say go up to the side and park 23 the car so the other cars can come through and they bring it out to 24 them. And if you notice if on the thing, we're not just proposing a 25 window on the back, we're proposing a door so that allows the server 26 to come from the restaurant and come out and do that and say well go 27 park on the side because if you're order's gonna take ten minutes or 28 five minutes long, they can tell that car go park on the side and we'll 29 bring your food out and they can keep that stack down themselves by 30 being very observant of that. So there's a way you know if the 31 restaurant owner's staying up with that, they can definitely keep that 32 down by doing that operation. 33 34 Scholz: Alright, someone else, another question; yes, Commissioner Crane. 35 36 Crane: Are you at liberty to say what establishment you looked at on EI 37 Paseo? 38 39 Church: Well, it's a competing restaurant, I really don't want to advertise their 40 store but it was like the second one where it used to be a Taco Bell, 1 41 think. When you go down EI Paseo just right there in front of 42 Cashways, right there in front of Cashways; it was a Chinese 43 restaurant drive-thru. 44 45 Crane: Yeah, Chinese take-out. 46 15 1 Church: Yeah exactly; that's what Dan asked me because you know the 2 numbers are... 1 think a lot of the numbers are generated for you know 3 Burger King and McDonalds basically; you know those stacking lanes. 4 And he had a question as well as I did; what's the true number of 5 people that use this kind of facility in a day? You know basing it on 6 numbers at McDonalds; I mean they do hundreds of cars during lunch. 7 You know, if you add all the cars up it was hundreds of cars during the 8 lunch rush so I mean, there's business and of course they want 9 business, but the actual number of business was, you know, three or 10 four cars was getting to be the most cars that were there. What I also 11 noticed, people would come in the line and if they see the line, they go 12 park their car and go in and order anyway which does happen at 13 McDonalds also. When people see the drive-up line too long they'll just 14 park the car and walk in because it's quicker. You know that's how 15 people do things; you know it's kind of weird. 16 17 Crane: I think if this is going to work, the first window, it's going to be a two- 18 window setup; the first window is going to have to be where they pay 19 as some McDonalds and others do and the second one is where they 20 pick up. I'm wondering looking at the diagram... 21 22 Church: Well, there's already a window now that's a forward window that's 23 about here. 24 25 Crane: Yeah, that would be where I would think they would have to pay. Then 26 they get out of the way by going down to the next one. 27 28 Church: Right and if we open the door in the back and then we'd have the front 29 window to pay and get that done and they could go to the second 30 window and pick up and that would definitely make it faster. 31 32 Crane: It looks to me as if there's going to be a problem if they're told at that 33 window "your order is going to take a while, go park." They can't back 34 up; they can't make a right turn into your new angled parking because 35 their angle is wrong. Where are they gonna go? I'm looking at 36 attachment four; yeah that one. 37 38 Church: Okay, I see what you're saying. 39 40 Crane: If somebody is at the first window and is told that's a special order, go 41 park, they are gonna have to go out onto Madrid, loop around and 42 come back in. 43 44 Church: I mean my perception of that order would come at the pick-up window. 45 When the pick-up window sees that they are in the way, then they 46 need to go ahead and get out of the line and go park the car and they 16 1 might have to drive back out and make a little circle, go around or they 2 could actually go forward. There's actually another space, although we 3 can't count it. When they drive forward, they can go forward; there are 4 almost two spaces in front of that line that's not allowed to be counted 5 on the stack. Where the car is parked there and then it turns right and 6 goes toward the street there. There's actually almost two car lengths in 7 there and they can move into that situation where the drive-up lady's 8 gonna come out (inaudible) so that's a possible. 9 10 Crane: Okay, thank you. 11 12 Scholz: Okay, Mr. Church I just had one question. What other businesses are 13 in that shopping center? 14 15 Church: Oh, let's see. I know Charlie probably knows that a lot better than I do. 16 1 mean, I know Savers is in there... 17 18 Gomez: We have a mixed use of mercantile, business and some small 19 restaurants as well. 20 21 Scholz: Small restaurants? 22 23 Gomez: Right. 24 25 Scholz: Okay, so there would be the same traffic at noon time then? 26 27 Gomez: It could be. They're more sit-down and take-out; there is no drive-thru 28 there. 29 30 Scholz: And where are they located in the building? Are they close to the 31 Teriyaki Bowl? 32 33 Gomez: I think they are more the center; kind of in 209, 208. 34 35 Scholz: Okay. 36 37 Gomez: And then we do have a Dollar General that's fronting I would say Yost, 38 Yost Road or... on the other side. 39 40 Scholz: Oh, okay on the other end. Alright, any other questions for these 41 gentlemen? Okay, is there someone from the public who wish to 42 speak to this? Thank you. 43 44 McConnell: Thank you Commissioners, my name is James McConnell; thank you 45 for letting me address you. I have known Xeng and Trinh for fifteen 46 years. I've used their restaurant at their former location and I just have 17 1 two comments why I would encourage the Commissioners to look at 2 this and approve it. Now, my wife and I, my wife's sitting back here, 3 we're in health care; I'm not with the traffic engineering anymore. Dave 4 remembers me when I was a traffic engineering draftsman for the City 5 and I've also served on the Board of Variances at one time, so my first 6 concern is for health. There are lots and lots of drive-up restaurants in 7 this town but when you're looking for a drive-up restaurant and you 8 want to get your grandchildren something very healthy, where are you 9 going to get them a steamed vegetable that's healthy for them? 10 There's no other choices out there so that's the health concern, it's 11 number one and the second one would be the wait time. Like I 12 mentioned before, I don't think I have ever had to wait very long 13 compared to other restaurants when I've been in their you know 14 service before to get a meal, take-out and that's sometimes I'll order 15 three or four take-out dinners and I've never had a problem with 16 waiting. They have always been very, very quick; any questions? 17 18 Scholz: No. Thank you very much Mr. McConnell. Someone else wish to speak 19 to this? 20 21 Adams: Good evening, my name is Jeff Adams and maybe I'm just being 22 selfish but I have eaten at the Teriyaki Bowl and before that at Teriyaki 23 Chicken. My wife and I and our granddaughters, once a week at least, 24 but it was always drive-thru. I like to just go through the drive-thru, 25 come home and eat it and they put on an excellent teriyaki chicken 26 bowl; it's excellent. I'm not saying I won't go to their business if you 27 don't give them the variance because I will eat their food, but to me, 28 I'm looking at it like 11-feet, 10-percent essentially, and if you can find 29 any way to do it, I would sure appreciate it if you could approve this for 30 them. That's all I have. 31 32 Scholz: Okay, thank you; anyone else? 33 34 Ngo: Hi, good evening. My name is Trinh Ngo; I'm the owner of the Teriyaki 35 Bowl. I'm in business for almost 14 years. My former location was on 36 EI Paseo. This location is my new location. My food is precooked. We 37 specialize in grilled chicken, the chicken is always on the grill so when 38 a customer order a teriyaki chicken bowl it only takes less than 60- 39 seconds to get it out. So most of my business is drive-thru and I'm in 40 the plaza but by five in the evening most of the other tenants are 41 closed and I'm the only one that's open to eight o'clock so by five 42 o'clock there's not much traffic going there beside my restaurant so in 43 the evening I only have maybe the maximum is three cars stacked up 44 but I move very fast. I'm always there, I'm there 80-hours a week, 1 45 supervise my staff that if an order takes longer than two minute we pull 46 them on the side and then we bring it out, but my food takes no longer 18 1 than two minute to prepare. I know what I'm talking about because I'm 2 in business for the last 14 years and that's all we know; that's all we do 3 best. Customer come first; I tell my staff if it takes more than two 4 minute, tell them to pull over and we bring it out to them. 5 6 Scholz: Alright, thank you. Anyone else want to speak to this? Okay, I'm going 7 to close for public discussion. Oh, you had a question; Commissioner 8 Beard. 9 10 Beard: I would like to ask the City. 11 12 Scholz: Certainly. 13 14 Beard: Could you take your arrow and show me where the 90, or the 89-feet 15 is; from the beginning to the end? 16 17 Ochoa: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Beard it would be essentially from here 18 which is the middle of the door back to right about here where the... 19 around the end where the parking stalls that are against the building; 20 that would be 89-feet and they are showing their widths here as well. It 21 was 16 Y2-feet and about 12-feet; I believe that's what that reads. 22 23 Beard: And so there's a code that says that a car cannot be sitting out here 24 idle at the entrance of this 89-feet, blocking cars from going in and out. 25 26 Ochoa: Well, if I could go back, it states that a stacking lane has to be 27 designed in a manner that permits appropriate traffic circulation and 28 avoids any congestion in a parking area and if a car would be outside 29 of that 89-feet, then essentially it'd be in the driving aisle of the 30 shopping center possibly causing some type of congestion or obstacle 31 for the driving aisle, sir. 32 33 Beard: I guess, where's the locations? If this car that is being served and is in 34 there for more than two minutes, where does that car go and where 35 does the next car go? Where do they park? 36 37 Scholz: Possibly Mr. Church can answer that. 38 39 Church: Okay, see this car, if they say you have to wait, he can park right in this 40 spot right here and wait. 41 42 Beard: Okay, what about the second one? 43 44 Church: If the second one comes then they're gonna have to have him either 45 go around and come and park in one of these three stalls here or 46 they're gonna have to go ahead and get served; right, exactly right. But 19 1 see the 89-feet goes to here, if you add the amount of the car here, it's 2 gonna be over 100-feet, so there's really 100-feet available to them to 3 use but I mean the code doesn't allow you to count that. 4 5 Beard: It looks to me when that car pulls up to wait after the two minutes, the 6 next car that comes up to be served, he doesn't have room to actually 7 turn right and get out of there. 8 9 Church: Well, I think it's gonna work okay. I mean, looking at it I didn't see a big 10 problem with them doing that. 11 12 Beard: I'm not thinking just the average size car. There are a lot of times a big 13 truck that goes through there, I mean I'm not talking about an 18- 14 wheeler but these fairly large pickup trucks take up an awful lot of 15 room. 16 17 Scholz: Alright; Commissioner Crane. 18 19 Crane: I'm still worried about attachment number four, Mr. Church; about the 20 scale again. You've got a 90-foot, essentially a 90-foot span there from 21 the back window to the beginning of the measurement area. 22 23 Church: Okay. 24 25 Crane: And you're showing four cars and maybe space for a fifth one in there. 26 Those are huge cars then; those are almost 20-feet long. 27 28 Church: Right and most cars aren't that long; most cars are like 13 '/2. 29 30 Crane: Right so it was somewhat misleading to us to be shown that there's 31 only room for five cars there when it's more like six or seven which 32 comes closer to meeting what you have seen at the other 33 establishment, right? 34 35 Church: Right... you can really judge a scale by the length of this parking stall; 36 that's 19-feet. This stall from the edge here to the edge here is 19-feet 37 so that's how you can see the length regardless of what the scale 38 shows. That's a 19-foot depth right there. 39 40 Crane: Thank you. 41 42 Scholz: Alright, I'm gonna close this for public discussion and we'll... you had a 43 question Commissioner Shipley. Oh, of Mr. Church? 44 45 Shipley: Yes. 46 20 1 Scholz: Go ahead; sorry. 2 3 Shipley: I guess the thing that troubles me about this and even the diagram, is 4 that there's two entrances off of Madrid. There's one where you're 5 proposing to make an exit only and where it's showing the car. There's 6 no pavement beyond that car; right now there is dirt behind the 7 building, because I looked to see if there were service delivery, you 8 know to go behind the building and it's not. It's just gravel and dirt back 9 there. 10 11 Church: Right, because that's adjacent property outside of that property line. 12 13 Shipley: That's correct, so basically you're paved area ends right where that car 14 is so it can turn and come... it really can't park there, I mean without 15 blocking half of the drive out. 16 17 Church: Well you know also, I mean I'm not contradicting, but this driveway in 18 this situation, this driveway is very seldom used in any shopping center 19 for anything. Almost every person comes in the shopping center this 20 way, very few come, even try to come in this direction. 21 22 Shipley: No, I understand you're going to make that one-way. 23 24 Church: One-way out. 25 26 Shipley: I understood that, but you suggested parking there and I'm just saying 27 that if you have any kind of like what has been said, if you have any 28 kind of over-size vehicle or a larger truck and after they're parked, 29 you've blocked that. I'm more concerned with the area from the sign 30 and if you look at the... if you'll show me the picture of the sign on the 31 building, because the sign is the slow part. That's where people have 32 to make a decision and so if somebody is sitting there and trying to 33 decide how many, you know, how many of this and how many of that 34 I'm going to order, there are people that are backed up behind them. 35 36 Church: Well we probably could resolve that if we move the sign up towards 37 this window and maybe add the second sign. If you see this sign on 38 the left, right in this location there's actually, you could put another sign 39 there, a pre-sign. 40 41 Shipley: That would not help, that would make the line behind them longer back 42 out into the parking lot. 43 44 Church: No, because that's what they do over there, like if you go to Wendy's, 45 they have the double sign board where you have the first sign that just 46 shows what to order and the second sign is where you actually order. 21 1 2 Shipley: Yes. 3 4 Church: That's where the people waiting in line can decide so when they get to 5 the line and we could do that also. We could have the main menu 6 board up here by the pay window and have another sign that's up right 7 here in that area just even before you get there and so they have more 8 chance to decide something and that would make the line even faster 9 because they have more time to think, you know, while they're waiting 10 in line for the person that's paying they can be thinking and when they 11 get the line they were going to order already. I mean, you know, or we 12 could leave this sign board here and add another sign board up there, 13 right here at the window which is the pay window and leave the 14 window in place and add the door at that location. That would probably 15 make it faster. 16 17 Shipley: I understand. 18 19 Church: And if, you know, I'm sure Mr. Gomez is probably willing to work with 20 that condition (inaudible). 21 22 Shipley: Okay, thank you. 23 24 Scholz: Commissioner Crane. 25 26 Crane: I think Mr. Shipley is right, that any prior sign is going to hold people up 27 and I don't know what the geography is at the Wendy's area, but like 28 most large built-to-purpose fast food joints, it has a pretty long and 29 dedicated crescent in which the people line up like that standard 30 diagram Mr. Ochoa showed of the 100-foot crescent. These people 31 don't have the luxury of a place for a tail to develop. If you put a sign 32 out that they have to look at for however long, if it's the way they make 33 their choice, they're going to sit and stare at it for a while and then 34 they're going to move up and stare at... maybe not spend so long at 35 the payment window. I don't think the solution is to have a prior sign. 1 36 think your menu needs to be moved to the existing window, they 37 choose there, they pay there and then you hand them their food at the 38 end. Also I have a question that at present the driving lane runs right 39 along the edge, southern edge of the building but in the plan, again 40 attachment four, there seems to be a curb that's being built to push the 41 line of traffic out a little bit towards Madrid. Is that because you 42 anticipate they won't have time to... space to turn if they stay close to 43 the building? See how the first car is turning? There must be a curb or 44 something there; what's...? 45 22 1 Gomez: No, we try to treat that with striping, just directional striping so that way 2 people can start turning and then that way it makes it easier for the car 3 to exit. 4 5 Crane: Okay, thank you. 6 7 Scholz: Thank you Mr. Gomez. Okay, any other questions; Commissioner 8 Shipley. 9 10 Shipley: Just a follow-up on that. Then that means they're going to be 11 separated from the building so somebody has to come out and hand 12 them the food. 13 14 Scholz: Right and that was the intention as I understood it. 15 16 Gomez: Correct, that's why we will be installing a door. 17 18 Scholz: It's a delivery door rather than a delivery window. 19 20 Shipley: They can't make that right-hand turn. 21 22 Scholz: Okay, any other discussion? Alright, any other questions? Okay, I'll 23 entertain a motion to approve A1709. 24 25 (Commissioners speaking without turning on microphones) 26 27 Scholz: Yes, yes by all means. I asked if there was discussion; discuss 28 gentlemen, please. 29 30 Crane: I too like teriyaki; I've eaten there on the old location on EI Paseo. I'd 31 like to see the business prosper and it looks like a real neat setup they 32 have there. This is really tight what they're asking for, physically 33 speaking, but my inclination is to let them give it a shot and see 34 whether in real life circumstances a problem develops or not. So 1 35 would like to hear a motion, make a motion to grant the variance with 36 the condition that the appropriate authorities review the situation after 37 let's say a period of operation of three months or so and then the 38 variance be made permanent. 39 40 Scholz: So what you're suggesting is a conditional variance? 41 42 Crane: Yes, with a time condition. 43 44 Scholz: Okay, time conditioned. Legal, can you give us an opinion on that? 45 23 1 Abram: Commissioners, we may have a problem with that. I think if you're 2 going to grant a variance you're gonna have to grant it in perpetuity. It 3 sounds like what you're trying to do is grant it for a discrete period of 4 time and that's not going to work. 5 6 Scholz: Okay. Thank you. 7 8 Crane: Can you think of a way out of my dilemma Mr. Abrams? I mean, if it's a 9 go, no go, then I'll still vote for it but I think there are legitimate 10 concerns here. 11 12 Scholz: Well, the conditions I've heard are to move the sign board, right? Not 13 to close the existing window but to move the sign board and leave the 14 window as a pay window and then have the door as the delivery door. 15 16 Crane: Okay, but we're not sure... yes, I should have included that but we're 17 not sure that it's going to work still. It will be better than what currently 18 exists no doubt. 19 20 Scholz: Well, I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Abrams that we can't make a 21 conditional variance, you know we have to say... we have to vote it up 22 or down (inaudible)... 23 24 Crane: We can't make it time conditioned. 25 26 Scholz: We can't make it time conditional. We can put other conditions on it 27 like you know, okay you have to move the sign board or you have to 28 close the window or something like that, you know. 29 30 Crane: Very well, let me propose that since we need a motion to (inaudible)... 31 32 Scholz: Hang onto that; if there's other discussion, I'd like to hear other 33 discussion and then we can come back to that. 34 35 Ochoa: Mr. Commissioner... I'm sorry, Chairman Scholz if I may intervene 36 please? 37 38 Scholz: Yes, Mr. Ochoa. 39 40 Ochoa: That has been brought up to staff and staff... if the board felt it 41 appropriate to approve this conditionally, staff would make a 42 recommendation that you put a condition on it stating that the applicant 43 shall be required to move the menu board next to the first service 44 window so as to provide a longer portion of the stacking lane before 45 the first point of service to help prevent backing into the driving aisle, 46 access aisle. 24 1 2 Scholz: Alright, yes I think that was Mr. Crane's intention. Okay, additional 3 discussion? 4 5 Crane: Excuse me, and in addition Mr. Ochoa, to open a door, a service door 6 at the end of the building. Otherwise everybody just hangs up at that 7 window. 8 9 Ochoa: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Crane that door would have to be added 10 in order to do the 89-foot-long stacking lane anyway. 11 12 Crane: So we need both of those conditions; the one you mentioned about 13 moving the board. 14 15 Ochoa: He would not be required just to move the sign sir with the variance, 16 but he would have to put the actual door because the door is part of 17 the stacking lane. In order to get the 89-feet he has to have that door 18 so a condition for that would not be required. 19 20 Crane: Right so we have two conditions we're speaking of. Move the menu 21 sign... 22 23 (People speaking away from microphones) 24 25 Scholz: I think what Mr. Ochoa is saying Commissioner Crane is that the door 26 is part of the variance. 27 28 Crane: Okay but he didn't mention it I think, unless I missed it. 29 30 Scholz: Right. No, it's part of the application, yes, right. That's why we have the 31 (inaudible). 32 33 Crane: Okay, I beg your pardon, my bad. 34 35 Scholz: That's okay. 36 37 Ochoa: Another thing is the door will not be allowed to swing into the actual 38 stacking lane as well, but of course that would be a design feature that 39 they would have to take care of as well. 40 41 Scholz: Okay, Commissioner Beard. 42 43 Beard: The way I look at it is, that six cars is about all that you can get in 44 there, if they're moderate size type cars and then I think about how 45 many cars are in line at the other drive-up windows throughout town 46 and sometimes there's an awful lot. I mean there's even a back-up at 25 1 McDonald's and they have an awful lot of staging area. After you have 2 paid, you can still get almost three cars up to the window that's actually 3 doing the delivering. I just... this may be a hit, this restaurant right 4 here. It may be a real big hit and they're going to be all kinds of people 5 there. We can't assume that this is going to be a less active area than 6 any other restaurant in town. Based on that, I don't think that this is 7 enough area for the staging of only six cars total; I mean that you're 8 taking care of six cars at the maximum. That's my concern. 9 10 Scholz: Okay. Commissioner Shipley. 11 12 Shipley: I would just counter and say that I agree that what I was really 13 concerned about was the distance from the sign back to the entry into 14 the stacking lane because the way it is now, when I pulled up there 15 and tried to look at ordering, I pulled up to the sign, I looked behind me 16 to see how much room was behind me and it was basically room for 17 one car. And so if you have, you know, three cars, they've got to be out 18 in the driveway behind. So by moving the sign closer to the window 19 and making that a pay only window where they take the money and 20 then as soon as they take the money, then they move up forward. That 21 solves part of that problem by relocating the sign. I think that when you 22 say six cars, and you say six cars and it takes two minutes per car, you 23 know, one at a time so, you know, every two minutes the cars are 24 moving and so you're adding, basically you're adding a car and it's 25 kind of a moving queue; it's not a queue that stays till it empties and 26 then it's six more cars pull in. Its one-at-a-time pulling in so I think if 27 you give enough room for three cars behind it or before it, you know, 28 you've done that. I think the key here is the movement of the sign. I'd 29 even consider, you know, maybe the window needs to be moved back 30 a little farther because once they've paid and they pull up to the 31 window that's the two minute time frame. But I think the window where 32 it is, is pretty close just by moving the sign closer to the window so that 33 they order and pay, that should be almost instantaneous and then they 34 move again and you keep moving and I think it would work. I mean it's 35 not the ideal thing, it wasn't designed for that but you know in this part 36 of the neighborhood that's unless you tear down the building and start 37 over. We're not going to do that and they can't afford to do that and it's 38 a reasonable request, I think. 39 40 Scholz: Okay, anyone else? Yes, Commissioner Beard. 41 42 Beard: At the other places they order before they pay and so the queue 43 actually starts a lot longer; they have a lot more time and so they're 44 able to move the cars better. There are probably four to five cars in the 45 queue after they have ordered. In this case you don't have that, you 46 have... you're saying that they might have two or they'll have three. 26 1 2 (Commissioner Shipley speaking away from microphone) 3 4 Beard: Once they have ordered, what would be, how many cars would they 5 have in front of them? 6 7 Shipley: Well, once they've ordered and they've paid then they're gonna move 8 to the far end and then there could be possibly two cars is the way it 9 looks from this. 10 11 Beard: Two cars. 12 13 Shipley: You know, that have paid and are waiting and then you've got the car 14 at the window and then two cars behind so you've got five cars, five to 15 six cars right there. 16 17 Scholz: I'm thinking of Caliche's drive-up; Caliche's has two windows and when 18 they're busy they're using both and you pay at one, then you pick up 19 your order at the next one, yeah. Yeah, and that's about a two-car 20 queue right there. Okay, any other discussion? Okay Mr. Crane, do 21 you want to make a... want to write up your conditions because you 22 had conditions here to move the menu board. 23 24 Rodriguez: Mr. Chairman, point-of-order. 25 26 Scholz: Yes, Ms. Rodriguez. 27 28 Rodriguez: If we could have a motion on the conditions and then a vote on that 29 and then a vote on the amended main motion to approve. 30 31 Scholz: Yes, I was moving in that direction. 32 33 Rodriguez:Thank you. 34 35 Scholz: Okay? Yes, you have to... 36 37 Crane: You want to hear the condition. 38 39 Scholz: I want to hear the conditions. 40 41 Crane: I move that a condition be added to this variance that the applicant be 42 required to move the menu board as close as possible to the existing 43 service window. How did that get up there so fast? 44 45 (People speaking away from the microphones) 46 27 1 Crane: I see. The applicant shall be required to move the menu board next to 2 the first service window so as to provide a longer portion of the 3 stacking lane before the first point of service to help prevent backing 4 into the driving access aisle. 5 6 Scholz: That's very clever, okay. Alright, Commissioner Beard. 7 8 Beard: So, we're gonna leave that one window right where it is? 9 10 Scholz: Yes, that's... at the moment we are, yes. 11 12 Beard: I think that we should move the window back. 13 14 Crane: Nearer the front of the store? 15 16 Beard: Towards the front of the building. 17 18 Crane: Yeah. 19 20 Beard: The order window. I know your point, your point is that they're gonna 21 sit there at the board and... 22 23 Crane: Yeah, you've got to have a good lot of space before the board because 24 that's where they're going to sit and think and if they sit and think close 25 to the front entrance to the store and then you are going to have a tail 26 of umpteen cars back into the parking lot so we've got to get them off 27 of there. I think I'd rather see that window, that pay window moved a 28 little further to the back of the building but I don't think it's... 29 30 Beard: But that only leaves two cars in the queue. 31 32 Crane: After they've paid? 33 34 Beard: Once they've ordered. 35 36 Crane: Ordered and paid, right. 37 38 Beard: Once they've ordered and that's when they start the stopwatch. 39 40 Crane: Okay but it's tight, it's tight but I... 41 42 Scholz: Yes, Commissioner Shipley. 43 44 Shipley: The thing that you have to consider is, we don't know what's on the 45 inside of the building. We don't know if that's... from that window back, 46 there could be fryers, there could be, you know all kinds of equipment 28 1 so we're looking at it from the outside and it's very simple to say move 2 it back but you don't know what's on the other side of that wall. So 1 3 would think, you know they've put a window in and I understand they 4 didn't put it in permitted properly but the point is, that window is there 5 because it's probably the best space for it and I think if you put the sign 6 closer that will suffice for now. 7 8 Scholz: Okay, so I'll entertain a motion to support this... to approve this 9 condition. 10 11 Shipley: Okay, I move to approve the condition by Commissioner Crane. 12 13 Scholz: Okay, would you read the condition please? 14 15 Shipley: The applicant shall be required to move the menu board next to the 16 first service window so as to provide a longer portion of the stacking 17 lane before the first point of service to help prevent backing into the 18 driving access aisle. 19 20 Scholz: Okay, is there a second for that? 21 22 Crane: Second it. 23 24 Scholz: Okay, it's been moved and seconded. I'll call the roll; Commissioner 25 Shipley. 26 27 Shipley: Aye; findings and discussion. 28 29 Scholz: Commissioner Crane. 30 31 Crane: Aye; findings, discussions, site visit. 32 33 Scholz: Commissioner Beard. 34 35 Beard: Aye; findings and discussions. 36 37 Scholz: And the chair votes aye; findings, discussion and site visit. Okay, now 38 we're on to the main motion and this is approval of A1709 with the 39 condition. 40 41 Shipley: I move to approve condition... Case A1709 with the conditions that 42 have been read. 43 44 Scholz: That have just been read. Okay, is there a second? 45 46 Beard: Second. 29 1 2 Scholz: Okay, it's been moved and seconded. I'll call the roll; Commissioner 3 Shipley. 4 5 Shipley: Aye; findings, discussion and site visit. 6 7 Scholz: Commissioner Crane. 8 9 Crane: Aye; findings, discussions, site visit. 10 11 Scholz: Commissioner Beard. 12 13 Beard: Aye; findings, discussions and site visit. 14 15 Scholz: And the chair votes aye for findings, discussion and site visit so it is 16 approved. 17 18 VIII. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION 19 20 Scholz: Alright, let me look at my, let's see, agenda; there's public participation 21 but I see the public is getting up to leave. Alright, any other public 22 participation? 23 24 IX. STAFF ANNOUNCEMENTS - None 25 26 Scholz: Alright, staff announcements? No staff announcements. I'm shocked. 27 28 X. ADJOURNMENT (7:08 pm) 29 30 Scholz: Alright, I'm declaring us adjourned at 7:08. Thank you very much folks, 31 thank you folks. 32 33 34 35 r 36 D^ 2 f 37 Chairman 30